1 minute ago, KhunHeineken said:

I accept such risk in my home country, where I own and rent out some properties. I have rights there. I am protected by a decent rule of law there. I have the right to reside there. There are town planning laws there. The list goes on.

I wouldn't touch foreign property ownership in Thailand with a barge pole.

Like I said, that's totally fine, everyone has there own strategy to manage risk. So you confirm you do take risks in another country.

It's just an age old truth about investing, that you need to run risk to make money. If you were to completely eliminate risk you would also eliminate profits. So you do need to run some risk.

My understanding is that foreigners can buy condos in Thailand, so that's perfectly fine, and what is usually done for investment. People who buy houses clearly often do so not as investment, that's different. If they do buy houses as an investment it is very unusual. Most foreigners who invest in property in Thailand invest in condos. They may hold a house, but only for themselves, rarely as an investment portfolio.

13 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

You people are equating paying a visa agent to people investing in 50 million Baht villas ?

Not sure they are comparable at all as the real estate market has a massive impact on the ecosystem, not sure visa agents affect any Thai person's life.

Surely effects quite a few people, if their husbands couldn't skirt financials at Imm every year and not be able to stay in TH.

Or even the retirement visa folks, as all th gals or guys servicing those regular customers at massage shops would be a few baht poorer 🤣

5 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

Like I said, that's totally fine, everyone has there own strategy to manage risk. So you confirm you do take risks in another country.

It's just an age old truth about investing, that you need to run risk to make money. If you were to completely eliminate risk you would also eliminate profits. So you do need to run some risk.

My understanding is that foreigners can buy condos in Thailand, so that's perfectly fine, and what is usually done for investment. People who buy houses clearly often do so not as investment, that's different. If they do buy houses as an investment it is very unusual. Most foreigners who invest in property in Thailand invest in condos. They may hold a house, but only for themselves, rarely as an investment portfolio.

Agree, but 'home' ownership, but default, turns into an investment. Equity built instead of rent spent. Somewhere down the line, someone will benefit greatly once sold.

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

I own any number for things.

What do you own?

I didn't ask what do you own, I asked under what structure of ownership do you own?

I own properties in my home country. I chose to rent in Thailand. This decision is vindicated time and time again, this OP being another time. 🙂

10 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

These issues do not belong in the same conversation.

The only reason they can be in the same conversation is that people said for both instances the nominee and the visa agent that's a grey area and endemic in Thai society. It isn't a grey area -- they both are illegal.

Edited August 13Aug 13 by JerryM

3 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

It's not about "bribes".

Massive ownership of real estate by foreigners destabilizes the local economy. As someone pointed out in an earlier post, the locals get priced out of real estate.

Bar owners on walking street paying "tea money" does not cause problems. It's the way it is.

Visa agents do not cause problems for the economy or the standard of living of the average Thai person.

These issues do not belong in the same conversation.

Would you kindly take your "holier than thou I never paid a visa agent in my life" sermon somewhere else?

Massive ownership of real estate?

If criminals (not old retired guys that that for whatever reason do not want to put B800K in a savings account) use an agent to stay in the county and are involved in criminal activity it absolutely does affect the average Thai person.

If you assume that the B800K foreign retirees are supposed to put in the bank here helps the economy, then circumventing that requirement hurts average Thais.

I have used an agent for my visa, but only for convenience, not to circumvent the law.

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

If it takes more than a year to sell, it is overpriced.

Many will have to sell at a fire sale to simply get rid of the mess they are in. There will be some considerable losses.

The price of the property has to meet the market in order for a sale to take place. The market in Thailand is currently down, way down.

5 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Agree, but 'home' ownership, but default, turns into an investment. Equity built instead of rent spent. Somewhere down the line, someone will benefit greatly once sold.

That's right, often a home is by accident the best investment a person makes. It's less likely in Thailand though because of the massive oversupply of housing. The price of a house may increase, but you're not going to see increases like in London, Paris or LA.

3 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

I didn't ask what do you own, I asked under what structure of ownership do you own?

I own properties in my home country. I chose to rent in Thailand. This decision is vindicated time and time again, this OP being another time. 🙂

I own any number of things, under a number of different ownership structures.

Do you consider your home an investment?

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

Why do you ignore previous posts, with the correct info,

Probably because it was not the correct info. 😂

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

I'm still waiting for you to explain how you extend your visa, without going to Imm. Says alot to me about anything you post.

I use an agent, and posted why I do so, on more than one occasion.

To summarize it, the 800k remains safe back in my home country and makes more than what the agent charges. I move well over the 65k here each month, so that's my fall back method should agents be banned in the future. I'd rather be on a golf course than in an immigration office. Simple, really.

I don't ride whilst intoxicated, and always wear a helmet. Do you? 😂

Edited August 13Aug 13 by KhunHeineken

3 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I own any number of things, under a number of different ownership structures.

Do you consider your home an investment?

My home is in Thailand now. Yes, I consider renting the condo I am in here an investment.

As I have said in the past, no investment in Thailand is an investment. 😂

13 minutes ago, JerryM said:

It isn't a grey area -- they both are illegal.

one has massive repercussions, the other doesnt

4 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Many will have to sell at a fire sale to simply get rid of the mess they are in. There will be some considerable losses.

Many who? The properties my wife owns could be sold quickly, and we would not take a significant hit, and could see a bump.

4 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

The price of the property has to meet the market in order for a sale to take place. The market in Thailand is currently down, way down.

Down from when?

But again, a year is plenty of time to sell a property.

I do not consider my home an investment, any more than my car or my shoes are investments.

3 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

As I have said in the past, no investment in Thailand is an investment.

as i have mentioned 1000 times, that only works if you stay single forever and ever.

in marriage the woman is the boss and 92% of women do not want to rent.

which is fine. you can stay single. its a lifestyle choice.

bohemian .. off the beaten path. it's why farangs started going on the SEA trail to begin with.

3 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

one has massive repercussions, the other doesnt

Maybe so but the penal code does not make that distinction.

2 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

That's right, often a home is by accident the best investment a person makes. It's less likely in Thailand though because of the massive oversupply of housing. The price of a house may increase, but you're not going to see increases like in London, Paris or LA.

Agree, almost all of our profit, was from land appreciation, not the structures on the lots have. Land bought at 'land office accessment' price to top it off. Got to love motivated sellers.

1st house profit, mostly due to exchange rate. Build when USD got 40 THB, sold at 30 exchange rate, (price 20k USD) and was a USD transfer done in USA (sold 45k USD). Or else it would have been minimal profit, since held for 7 yrs. 1M baht cost, sold 1.4M, 40% vs 125%

2nd, house on 2 rai, so nice appreciation, along with other 4 lots (1 rai) each, from original purchase, cut into 6 lots. 120k purchase per lot, sold ~500k per lot. Land rocks, condos, not so much.

On topic, they'll be motivated seller, selling at huge loss.

4 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Agree, almost all of our profit, was from land appreciation, not the structures on the lots have. Land bought at 'land office accessment' price to top it off. Got to love motivated sellers.

1st house profit, mostly due to exchange rate. Build when USD got 40 THB, sold at 30 exchange rate, (price 20k USD) and was a USD transfer done in USA (sold 45k USD). Or else it would have been minimal profit, since held for 7 yrs. 1M baht cost, sold 1.4M, 40% vs 125%

2nd, house on 2 rai, so nice appreciation, along with other 4 lots (1 rai) each, from original purchase, cut into 6 lots. 120k purchase per lot, sold ~500k per lot. Land rocks, condos, not so much.

On topic, they'll be motivated seller, selling at huge loss.

There will only be huge losses if the homes are worth significantly less than what the owner paid.

Someone the bough a lot, and built a custom home with no expense spared will be sorry. Somone that bought a home at market value will be fine.

29 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

Like I said, that's totally fine, everyone has there own strategy to manage risk. So you confirm you do take risks in another country.

It's just an age old truth about investing, that you need to run risk to make money. If you were to completely eliminate risk you would also eliminate profits. So you do need to run some risk.

I agree that no risk equals no reward, but as I said, there are different levels of risk. An example is, one of The Big 4 banks in Australia is currently offering 5.30% interest. The chances of that bank collapsing is very very small, but still possible, The Australian government guarantees deposits up to a certain amount as well. The chances of the government defaulting is very very small, but still possible. So, say one deposits $100,000AUD and receives $5,300 in interest, that comes with very low risk.

I used another members figure of need 15,000 baht a month for rent. It was 3,400,000 baht, which is only about $148,000AUD, to return 15,000 baht a month. I pay more than 15,000 baht a month in rent, but I also have more than $148,000AUD invested in Australia. This is about as risk free as one can get, and still makes money to pay rent in Thailand, without any property headaches. Then, once again, the elephant in the room, life expectancy.

39 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

My understanding is that foreigners can buy condos in Thailand, so that's perfectly fine, and what is usually done for investment. People who buy houses clearly often do so not as investment, that's different. If they do buy houses as an investment it is very unusual. Most foreigners who invest in property in Thailand invest in condos. They may hold a house, but only for themselves, rarely as an investment portfolio.

I would agree with that, but the Thai property market is in a 4 year decline. The Thai economy is not doing well. Their tourism is down, which makes up about 20% of GDP, and they have record household debt. Western economies are in poor shape, and with the high cost of living, many in the west are unable to retire, so continue working.

Where's the market to make it an investment?

2 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

The chances of that bank collapsing is very very small, but still possible, The Australian government guarantees deposits up to a certain amount as well.

Actually Thai banks have very prudent and high capital reserves. The odds of Kasikorn collapsing are far smaller than most Australian banks collapsing. The stability of the Thai banking system is internationally recognized despite the high debt exposure.

Kasikornbank & Krung Thai Bank rank among world’s top 15 strongest banking brands

Kasikornbank and Krung Thai Bank retain AAA+ brand strength ratings.

There is not a single Australian bank in the top 15 strongest banking brands.

https://brandfinance.com/press-releases/kasikornbank-krung-thai-bank-rank-among-worlds-top-15-strongest-banking-brands

In terms of risk in the banking sector in Thailand, that is a very small risk.

20 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

as i have mentioned 1000 times, that only works if you stay single forever and ever.

in marriage the woman is the boss and 92% of women do not want to rent.

which is fine. you can stay single. its a lifestyle choice.

bohemian .. off the beaten path. it's why farangs started going on the SEA trail to begin with.

I didn't come to Thailand to marry a Thai prostitute and adopt her extended family. It's as simple as that.

Should I meet a Thai lady in the future, whilst there still may be a wealth gap, and an age gap, it will not be to the degree that many have here, and I will not be lead by the nose into something I don't want to do. Simple.

If there is longevity in the marriage, I would consider signing over one of my units in Australia to her. She can own a property in Australia, and I am protected to some degree should we divorce. It's a better investment for her, with a better return, than a useless property in Thailand.

Edited August 13Aug 13 by KhunHeineken

7 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

Actually Thai banks have very prudent and high capital reserves. The odds of Kasikorn collapsing are far smaller than most Australian banks collapsing. The stability of the Thai banking system is internationally recognized despite the high debt exposure.

They pay a pittance. That's my main point, not how strong they are.

8 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

Kasikornbank & Krung Thai Bank rank among world’s top 15 strongest banking brands

Kasikornbank and Krung Thai Bank retain AAA+ brand strength ratings.

There is not a single Australian bank in the top 15 strongest banking brands.

https://brandfinance.com/press-releases/kasikornbank-krung-thai-bank-rank-among-worlds-top-15-strongest-banking-brands

In terms of risk in the banking sector in Thailand, that is a very small risk.

If that's the case, it's probably why they pay a pittance, for the low risk, which is my point, right?

Just now, KhunHeineken said:

I didn't come to Thailand to marry a Thai prostitute and adopt her extended family. It's as simple as that.

The only women you come in contact with are prostitutes, so you assume all women are prostitutes.

Just now, KhunHeineken said:

Should I meet a Thai lady in the future, whilst there still may be a wealth gap, and an age gap, it will not be to the degree that many have here, and I will not be lead by the nose into something I don't want to do. Simple.

I would not worry about that. Best you stick to your rentals.

Just now, KhunHeineken said:

If there is longevity in the marriage, I would consider signing over one of my units in Australia to her. She can own a property in Australia, and I am protected to some degree should we divorce. It's a better investment for her, with a better return, than a useless property in Thailand.

Right

Just now, Yellowtail said:

The only women you come in contact with are prostitutes, so you assume all women are prostitutes.

To the first part of your comment, currently, yes. Most Thai women I come in contact with are prostitutes.

The the second part of your comment, certain NO. I do not assume all Thai women are prostitutes, and in fact, when having contact with a Thai women who is clearly not a prostitute, I am overly cautious not to be too friendly and come across as sleazy. I keep that contact at arms length.

I may take to a dating site in the future, but at the moment, I'm happily single, enjoying the freedom, and all the lifestyle Pattaya offers.

5 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I would not worry about that. Best you stick to your rentals.

I don't rule it out. By buying them a property you're renting them anyway, aren't you? Serious question.

5 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Right

Yes, that is right. I would probably get her PR / Citizenship as well, which is normal.

Edited August 13Aug 13 by KhunHeineken

10 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

They pay a pittance. That's my main point, not how strong they are.

Oh I see, that's a fair point of course. I just referred to the Thai banks collapsing point . That seems a remote possibility as the Thai banks seem to have done their homework after the Thai financial crisis and the banks are now very prudent indeed.

10 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

If that's the case, it's probably why they pay a pittance, for the low risk, which is my point, right?

Indeed that would justify it, wouldn't it?

Edited August 13Aug 13 by Cameroni

11 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

To the first part of your comment, currently, yes. Most Thai women I come in contact with are prostitutes.

The the second part of your comment, certain NO. I do not assume all Thai women are prostitutes, and in fact, when having contact with a Thai women who is clearly not a prostitute, I am overly cautious not to be too friendly and come across as sleazy. I keep that contact at arms length.

I may take to a dating site in the future, but at the moment, I'm happily single, enjoying the freedom, and all the lifestyle Pattaya offers.

I don't rule it out. By buying them a property you're renting them anyway, aren't you? Serious question.

Yes, that is right. I would probably get her PR / Citizenship as well, which is normal.

So you're going to switch to prostitutes on dating sites, good luck with that.

You're confused, I never bought a property for anyone.

9 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

So you're going to switch to prostitutes on dating sites, good luck with that.

Errr, no. I didn't say that. If I would like to meet a Thai lady in the future, I would probably join a dating site and start from there.

10 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I never bought a property for anyone.

Good for you? Many have, and for many, it didn't end well, as we all know.

56 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

There will only be huge losses if the homes are worth significantly less than what the owner paid.

Time of purchase will play a big factor.

Example, buy in 20 years ago, and still sell in a fire sale, you MAY still make a few baht. Of course, location etc plays a factor. If in Issan, forget it.

Buy in more recently, and I would suggest there will be negative equity and a loss, due to the current climate in the property market here, and the distressed sales this crack down will bring.

59 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Someone the bough a lot, and built a custom home with no expense spared will be sorry. Somone that bought a home at market value will be fine.

Both will have issues if they bought with a Thai company using nominees. This is a given.

There was a lot of negative equity around even before the crack down.

5 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Errr, no. I didn't say that. If I would like to meet a Thai lady in the future, I would probably join a dating site and start from there.

My old standby when someone asked: How do I find a decent Thai lady?

Answer: You don't find a decent Thai lady. They find you.

13 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Errr, no. I didn't say that. If I would like to meet a Thai lady in the future, I would probably join a dating site and start from there.

Good for you? Many have, and for many, it didn't end well, as we all know.

Just like everywhere, it ends well for some and not for others.

Sure, once in a while you hear about some guy that gets fleeced, but there are countless happily married guys.

There are also plenty of guys that got tired of living in rentals and bought a home.

You're rich and have multiple homes in in your home country. I've lived in rentals most of my life, including the first twenty years I was here. It gets old.

25 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Time of purchase will play a big factor. ... Example, buy in 20 years ago, and still sell in a fire sale, you MAY still make a few baht. Of course, location etc plays a factor. If in Issan, forget it.

Buy in more recently, and I would suggest there will be negative equity and a loss, due to the current climate in the property market here, and the distressed sales this crack down will bring.

Both will have issues if they bought with a Thai company using nominees. This is a given.

There was a lot of negative equity around even before the crack down.

20 yr appreciation, and you only show a few baht. You show your ignorance with every new post.

You do realize, the people in OP, can simply transfer their holdings to a Thai person, they trust, and lose almost nothing.