Where To Buy A Good Quality Espresso Machine

[Crow Boy]

Any recommendations for where to buy good espresso coffee for use in my home machine - either beans from a store or maybe ready-ground as a packed brand?

In the UK, I used to be very happy with Lavazza Rosso (cheapest in the range) but I haven't seen it here - only the Lavazza d'Oro (way expensive - as is Illy). I tried Suzuki, Moccona, Boncafe, Hillkoff and a few other brands I'm happy to forget - none of them particularly interesting/worth the money. Ideally, given that the stuff's grown here, I'd like to find a good Thai version. So far, I favour Giovanni and sometimes The Coffee Bean espresso - both sold at Rimping and, coincidentally, both quite cheap compared to the others. Having said that, I'm happy to pay more for something special - just not the B400-ish for Lavazza & Illy.

[ I previously posted this on the tail end of the espresso machine thread and I suspect that many TV members had already passed it by - hence re-posting it as a separate topic now.........after all there must be nearly as many espresso lovers as pizza & burger connoisseurs in Chiang Mai ].

The three rimping supermarkets in CM have a fairly good selection of local and import coffee both whole beans and ground. I personally use the Duang Dee brand, course ground for plunger and whole beans finely ground for my espresso machine.

There are also quite a few coffee shops around CM including Waawee, Black Canyon, and even Starbucks that will sell you their own brands. I think you would be well advised to try around and when you find a coffee that you like ask what brand it is and the supplier. I got onto Duang Dee simply because it is local and I like to support the hill tribe growers. The coffee is fresh and good quality. I must say it is not the best in the world but it is cheaper than the imports some of which can be two years since placed in their tin can and vacuum sealed.

My hope is that I will collect the green beans from my partners village trees and roast them myself in a similar was as McGriffith wrote in his "I remember when I was in Bali in the early 60s and between taking advantage of the local female population and their local home grown product I also had fresh coffee ground for me every morning by my dusky skinned village maiden"

CB

[Crow Boy]

As I suspect that many TV members have stopped looking at this thread because of the machine subject, I'm going to re-post the question about espresso coffee recommendations as a separate topic [after all - there must be nearly as many espresso lovers as pizza & burger connoisseurs in Chiang Mai ]. Just one last point about espresso machines: because of the process, it's really not worth buying any machine that delivers less than 15 bar pressure - you're just not going to get the force required to extract the coffee flavours. After that it's down to budget, personal taste for chromed steel etc .....

I agree with the point about it being up to personal taste but I think the reality is that most home style machines at teh lower end of the market will struggle to make a really good espresso coffee compared to a properly set up professional quality machine used by someone who knows how to extract good quality coffee from the beans and not just put a pretty foam flower on the top or add caramel sauce to a machiato. While I am on that topic How the heck can you have a "grand" or "tall" machiato? it is a small shot of the first extract coffee with a stain of warm milk not a bucket sized mug with frickin' hazelnut flavouring.

What I try to do with my home machine is to use decent quality coffee with clean fresh water and make the coffee as best as I can. It is pretty good if I say so myself but is not going to compare to what I could make with a good machine with a full head of steam.

CB

Edited September 8, 2007 by Crow Boy

[cmsally]

I give Duang Dee the thumbs up and friends of mine visiting seem to go for it too.

Maybe it's just what you get used to? In my opinion some of the others can have weird flavours.

[Mighty Mouse]

I love a good cup of coffee but I'm certainly no coffee geek.

My understanding is that the most important piece of coffee making equipment is the grinder. The quality and consistency of the grind is very important.

The geeks like to roast their own bean so as to have them as fresh as possible. Bean freshness is possibly the second most important thing.

I have been told that a simple popcorn maker can be used for this purpose. Freshly roasted beans have a quality life of about 10 days or less, therefore storage becomes important also.

Coffee making technique is the third most important thing. I'm referring to making espresso coffee. Proper tamping, timing of the pull, temperature of the water etc. etc.

Next is the machine itself. With practice, most el cheapo semi-automatic machines can produce good espresso.

It's amazing how making a simple cup of coffee can become so involved.

Edited September 8, 2007 by Mighty Mouse

[Steve2UK]

Duang Dee ticks a lot of boxes for me - local, hilltribe etc - and I have long used it for filter/cafetiere. Which of the three Duang Dee's are you using - particularly for espresso?

[cmsally]

"unique strong"

[lotus eater]

My magimix espresso machine will be arriving soon, along with the electric grinder (fairly cheap, bodum brand) with my household stuff from France.

Does anyone grind the beans at home? Do they recommend a good grinder that will do a fine grind, for an espresso machine, as well as the professional ones in shops?

[p1p]

Roasted beans should always be kept either vacuum packed or in the deep freeze. They will last a considerable period if kept frozen.

As regards the best coffee for espresso. My coffee Sensei ran arguably the best coffee retail and wholesale supplier in London, just a couple of doors away from my business. (He was immortalised in Dire Straits' song "Wild West End".) He was invariably dismissive of those who always knew best and produced his own espresso blend which I believe could never be beaten. Both Robusta and Arabica from different parts of the world and roasted to different degrees, his coffee had a depth and strength of flavour I have never experienced elsewhere. Oh - he was Italian and his family were third generation coffee dealers in London.

[Steve2UK]

My magimix espresso machine will be arriving soon, along with the electric grinder (fairly cheap, bodum brand) with my household stuff from France.

Does anyone grind the beans at home? Do they recommend a good grinder that will do a fine grind, for an espresso machine, as well as the professional ones in shops?

Yes - and, if you can find it, the small Krups coffee grinder. The grinding chamber in it is oval rather than circular - seems to keep the beans and grounds on the move better than the circular ones (where the fine powder tends to stick to stick to the sides). I find that if you shake it vigorously (even up-end it) while you're grinding, it'll keep the grounds moving around the blades until they're all ground fine - just probably longer than you're used to. Even if you can't find an oval-shaped one, any of the smaller (i.e. that you can hold in your hands) circular ones should also do the job - just run longer (and keep shaking!) for a finer grind.

Alternatively, I'm sure you could also spend a fortune on a "toys-for-the-boys" machine that will achieve the same result..........

Edited September 8, 2007 by Steve2UK

[Steve2UK]

"unique strong"

Thanks!

[Crow Boy]

"unique strong"

I am not sure which one I use for the espresso but I think it is unique smooth. Whatever it is it is the only one that I have found from Duang Dee that is whole bean and not preground. For plunger I use Unique Strong.

CB

[mild7even]

My magimix espresso machine will be arriving soon, along with the electric grinder (fairly cheap, bodum brand) with my household stuff from France.

Does anyone grind the beans at home? Do they recommend a good grinder that will do a fine grind, for an espresso machine, as well as the professional ones in shops?

As JXXXL mentioned, it is important to have a burr (as opposed to blade) grinder. Blade grinders result in an inconsistent grind, and sometimes are so fast that they can create static electricity and burn the grinds a bit. You will avoid this with a burr grinder.

I realize this doesn't answer your question--I don't have any recommendations for specific machines you can buy around here--but you are sure to find some burr grinders around here somewhere.

[Steve2UK]

Any recommendations for where to buy good espresso coffee for use in my home machine - either beans from a store or maybe ready-ground as a packed brand?

In the UK, I used to be very happy with Lavazza Rosso (cheapest in the range) but I haven't seen it here - only the Lavazza d'Oro (way expensive - as is Illy). I tried Suzuki, Moccona, Boncafe, Hillkoff and a few other brands I'm happy to forget - none of them particularly interesting/worth the money. Ideally, given that the stuff's grown here, I'd like to find a good Thai version. So far, I favour Giovanni and sometimes The Coffee Bean espresso - both sold at Rimping and, coincidentally, both quite cheap compared to the others. Having said that, I'm happy to pay more for something special - just not the B400-ish for Lavazza & Illy.

[ I previously posted this on the tail end of the espresso machine thread and I suspect that many TV members had already passed it by - hence re-posting it as a separate topic now.........after all there must be nearly as many espresso lovers as pizza & burger connoisseurs in Chiang Mai ].

Hmmmm - am I going mad or do I just think I am? I was sure that I posted this as the start of a new thread........ Didn't I? And, if I did, has some kindly mod decided to re-tack it on to the end of the espresso machine thread anyway - and why? I know alcohol plays tricks with the memory - didn't think caffeine did the same.

[Mighty Mouse]

There are a number of coffee forums on the net where enthusiasts chat about brewing techniques and equipment.

One is Coffee Snobs, another is Coffee Forums and Coffee Geek and yet another Crema.

In each of these forums there is a wealth of information.

After reading some of the posts you will soon realize how much money coffee drinkers are willing to spend in order to get the perfect coffee. You may also change your mind about storing beans in the freezer.

[Ulysses G.]

Coffee without sugar and cream tastes like some sort of a bitter chemical.

Who is fooling who with this "perfect" coffee stuff?

[Mighty Mouse]

Coffee without sugar and cream tastes like some sort of a bitter chemical.

Who is fooling who with this "perfect" coffee stuff?

There was an interesting debate on this subject.

[Allyt]

I don't see anyone mentioning "YOK" the catering folks on the left in Atsadothon Rd, on the way to Khaemptean from the north east corner of the moat.

All you respected restaurant owners should find loads of stuff there that you may need, sells a wide variety of catering supplies including coffee machines.

Did you check it out ? Its also good for the non restaurateur too.

Ally

[canadiangirl]

I haven't yet dealt with the problem of "coffee security" in Thailand, but being a giant food snob, I expect to have it. :-P

When I went away to university in a hideous town with no good food -- my solution was to use a french press, stock up on good beans whenever i went to a proper city, and i would just grind them by hand everyday in a french-style hand-grinder. I was told to either get the beans ground in a proper store grinder, or to do it by hand -- as the smaller, cheaper electric grinders can spoil the beans through overheating. I bought the beans already roasted from a good place, but I had one professor that was even snobbier than me, and he would buy green beans and roast them in his fireplace!

[Crow Boy]

Coffee without sugar and cream tastes like some sort of a bitter chemical.

Who is fooling who with this "perfect" coffee stuff?

As with all things food and drink it is subject to personal taste. I normally drink coffee straight black. Sometimes I will add a stain of fresh milk (cream to our American cousins). I never add sugar and cannot abide that instant non dairy creamer stuff which is an abomination of nature.

With Greek friends I drank my coffee black but in accordance to their tradition added as much sugar as is possible to dissolve in the small demitasse cups. Traditionally Italians drink coffee with milk only in the morning (capuccino) mainly at breakfast and during the day/evening only drink black espresso.

One thing that you American do use is filter coffee or more accurately Kona (brand name) coffee where the coffee is run through a paper or mesh filter and then placed on a hot pot. If fresh it is great coffee but if it has been left on the heater for any extended period of time it is horrible.

In reality good quality coffee properly prepared and served will never be bitter. It may be strong but the acidic aftertaste common to cheap coffee is due to the ascidic esters similar to those found in cheap wine and bad beer.

If you have to add cream and sugar to the coffee it is to disguise the taste and is indicative of your choice of coffee or the way your taste buds have adjusted to the flavours.

I am somewhat surprised that no one has mentioned the coffer "bo raan" (old fashioned) that is commonly found here in Thailand. Cheap quality coffee made in a bag with hot water, served in a glass with a tablespoon or two of sugar and a splurt of condensed milk. Breakfast of champions and something I often have in the morning markets. The small glass of chinese tea afterwards to clean the mouth of the sweetness and the small salty biscuit to add to the experience.

CB

[Austhaied]

Correct CB, the cafe boran or Oliang coffee is fantastic. A good cup can be had at Kopitiam on Nimmenhemin Rd opposite Kasems store.At 25-30 baht you can't go wrong.