Farang Bride Can Expect Sin Sod

[meemiathai]

Sin Sot is a joke. The parents of most thai girls marrying falangs should be kissing the falang's hairy bean bag to get the girl off their books.

Oops, almost forgot, many thai 20-30 yr-old girls support their layabout parents.

If a Thai ever paid sinsot for a falang lady, he would be the laughing-stock of his mooban.

(This from an Issan perspective, of course)

I would say if the wedding took place in Isaan and there were no sinsot. The family would be the laughing-stock of his mooban.

[britmaveric]

Have actually seen 2 farang brides in Thai-falang marriages receive a sin sot. They even got the gals' parents involved to do the traditional carrying off of the bundled funds -in that bundled cash, cut flowers, and seed mix thing- to the back room (both ceremonies performed in the groom's house instead of the bride's house... because neither bride had a home locally). And like most weddings these days, the funds are simply later returned to the groom (in most Thai-Thai and Thai-Chinese weddings I've witnessed... returning just means the funds are left on some table in the back and the groom collects it before whisking his bride off to wherever, sometimes the groom's agent... like a trusted brother or best man type person will take care of it).

IMO you only 'lose' your sin sot if you're doing something like trying to marry two people with huge gaps in socio-economic status (with no ill intent by either party and it's specifically agreed that nothing will be returned) OR if the bride's family is intent on ripping off the groom (ill intent intended).

Heng,

I am due to marry my thai lady in Feb next year,she is educated and used to work in a company as a QC.I am being told the sin sot is part of her culture and that I have to pay 100,000 baht.I am concerned by your statement (ill intent intended)I do find it hard to swalow,having to give the money,but clearly you are knowledgeable on this,I did refuse to pay it in the beginning,which I think is the standard response and her parents said to her every one in there family had donme this in the past.I have read many threads on this and it just seems to become more cloudy!

We are being tiold that we will recieve any money presents however,so I am assuming it will sort of balance.

I would welcome your feedback.

Nick

The sinsot is for show - you will receive the dosh back. Well if you don't that speaks volumes about the sort of family you are getting involved with.

[Heng]

Have actually seen 2 farang brides in Thai-falang marriages receive a sin sot. They even got the gals' parents involved to do the traditional carrying off of the bundled funds -in that bundled cash, cut flowers, and seed mix thing- to the back room (both ceremonies performed in the groom's house instead of the bride's house... because neither bride had a home locally). And like most weddings these days, the funds are simply later returned to the groom (in most Thai-Thai and Thai-Chinese weddings I've witnessed... returning just means the funds are left on some table in the back and the groom collects it before whisking his bride off to wherever, sometimes the groom's agent... like a trusted brother or best man type person will take care of it).

IMO you only 'lose' your sin sot if you're doing something like trying to marry two people with huge gaps in socio-economic status (with no ill intent by either party and it's specifically agreed that nothing will be returned) OR if the bride's family is intent on ripping off the groom (ill intent intended).

Heng,

I am due to marry my thai lady in Feb next year,she is educated and used to work in a company as a QC.I am being told the sin sot is part of her culture and that I have to pay 100,000 baht.I am concerned by your statement (ill intent intended)I do find it hard to swalow,having to give the money,but clearly you are knowledgeable on this,I did refuse to pay it in the beginning,which I think is the standard response and her parents said to her every one in there family had donme this in the past.I have read many threads on this and it just seems to become more cloudy!

We are being tiold that we will recieve any money presents however,so I am assuming it will sort of balance.

I would welcome your feedback.

Nick

evening Nick,

Well, I don't know the girl and I don't know the family so I can't really say whether there is ill-intent or not. As mentioned, there are non-returned sin sots as agreed beforehand and there are non-returned sin sots with ill-intent. An example of the the latter would be if they unfairly represented the Thai culture by saying that all Thais have to pay a sin sot no questions asked/that the norm is that the sin sot is never returned, that only the well to do return sin sots. A good guage, IMO of course, would be to say "well, I have a Thai friend in Bangkok... his name is Heng, he also married here in Thailand to a Thai girl and he only put a sin sot down as part of the ceremony only. Many of his friends, many of whom are just part of humble one shop house/one business type families have done the same. The cash portion was back in his bank account before noon and the title deeds put down never changed hands. He's Thai so I'm curious what you think about this." There answer should give you some idea of what they are thinking.

A few cop outs would be: 'oh, that's just what they do in Bangkok.' Or, again, 'only the rich do that.'

A more honest answer would be: in the distant past, yes, it was indeed common for the sin sot to be kept. Part of our reasoning for adhering to this is because you are from different economic and cultural backgrounds and the loss of our daughter -which may happen if you opt to leave this country forever with her- will indeed be an unbearable burden or that perhaps we are completely unaware of your economic status and aren't even acquainted with your family and would like a show of faith that you will be able to care for our daughter (although IMO, that's what the whole "for show only" deal is... there's no need to keep it).

Another good response would be something like: we do acknowledge though, it's always been an option to reject the offer of sin sot as a show of good faith in the groom and groom's family. (that, according to my grandparents was what they were familiar with.... if a suitor who was not welcomed by the family came around calling with his entourage... a sin sot would be asked for, and that would be the "polite" signal to the other party that they were not welcome.... but when someone acceptable came around, the counter to the question of sin sot would be "nothing, only that you love each other forever," or whatever the equivalent cheesy answer was back then). We recognize that nowadays, and increasingly so with each passing generation, that it is merely a ceremonial part of the wedding and no funds will actually change hands.

Edited September 8, 2007 by Heng

[meemiathai]

I would say the best way is to listen to what your wife to be tells you. If you cannot trust her maybe you might think of marrying her later. Unless of course the sinsot idea bothers you a lot then you should be discussing it with your wife.

But I think it would be difficult for the thai lady to understand why 100000 baht would seem like such a burden if she has not been in touch with western culture. She might think that you don't really love her that much.

[torrenova]

So just as a western woman marrying a thai man would normally receive no sinsot, then a western man marrying a Thai woman should expect to pay no sinsot (which was not returned).

As for the poster being told that he could keep any gifts then I do not equate this with offsetting sinsot. Cash gifts at marriage is a very Asian thing and my understanding is that the purpose is to relieve the burden of the wedding party not to offset some one way sinsot transaction.

In Japan, guests give varying amounts but it was customary when I lived there (and was married there), to think in terms of the cost the bride and groom (or their family) have paid to invite you to their wedding (which could include travel and accommodation as well as food and drinks) and then add on something in addition. Thus, you were able to decline if you wished but if you accepted, you knew the likely gift which would retain face.

[sbk]

Think you misunderstood torrenova. If there is a wedding then the foreign bride can expect sin sot. No wedding, no sin sot. Same as with a Thai woman.

And JimmyCA, 1200 is about average for where I live. My nephew's wedding was over 1500. He's local, bride is local, bride's parents and grandparents are local, groom's father and both of his paternal grandparents are local. A local invites everyone they know and it can easily hit 1000.

[britmaveric]

No wedding, no sin sot. Same as with a Thai woman.

Cheers SBK, Well its taken 4yrs for the solution to have been finally mentioned.... don't have a formal wedding and then no sinsot.

Edited September 9, 2007 by britmaveric

[bina]

interesting,

is giving money as a wedding present an asian thing??? cause thats what we do here also; and its exactly that: if its a very big expensive thingy, then u have to give a monetary gift that fits (they have to pay for the chicken/fish/kosher sushi/whatever...)...

hadnt realized that...

only us poor folk give presents cause then u can get away with giving a 'cheaper' amount: i.e. a set of dinner plates is cheaper than 400NIS (the going wedding present rate here in the holy land, and this only for non family. family have to give more... )

in the arab villages if we give a present, we all pool our funds so it comes out in big bucks or the bride and groom lose face cause the amounts are announced.

bina

[ozzydom]

In our village the brides parents pocket the lot,.

We had one interesting case, (a niece of my wife actually) was marrying a lad from central Issan ,the sin sod was 70k,well the big day arrived and all and sundry turned up but it turned out his family was 20k short so the wedding was postponed while his parents rushed off south to pick up one of their cows to make up the difference.

They arrived back in the wee hours complete with cow and the wedding took place,but 4 days later the bride came home,it seems that when she disrobed the first night she was plastered in tattoos she had got while in her previous as a bar girl, (he was under the impression she was a factory worker ).

The day after she arrived home the grooms family and a few strong-arm helpers arrived ,had a hel_l of a punch up ,took the cow and some pigs ,as the cash was already spent and departed..

[siamamerican]

In our village the brides parents pocket the lot,.

We had one interesting case, (a niece of my wife actually) was marrying a lad from central Issan ,the sin sod was 70k,well the big day arrived and all and sundry turned up but it turned out his family was 20k short so the wedding was postponed while his parents rushed off south to pick up one of their cows to make up the difference.

They arrived back in the wee hours complete with cow and the wedding took place,but 4 days later the bride came home,it seems that when she disrobed the first night she was plastered in tattoos she had got while in her previous as a bar girl, (he was under the impression she was a factory worker ).

The day after she arrived home the grooms family and a few strong-arm helpers arrived ,had a hel_l of a punch up ,took the cow and some pigs ,as the cash was already spent and departed..

Funny story! I'm admittedly intoxicated as I type, but I witnessed some of the same in my short stays in villages. In my experiences it was mostly farangs that were on the short end. Hopefully the story end well and they live happily ever after,

[Nickthegreek]

Hi All,

Thanks for taking the time to respond,I realise it was a bit of the topic,but you have all given such great advice.

I take on board all that is posted and I will trust my to be wife on this, 100,000 baht is not much in the scheme of things and I felt like I was being treated fairly.

I guess no matter how many times we all discuss this,coming from a western culture we will always find this hard to swallow.

In the bigger scheme of things had I married in the UK,it would have cost near on 15,000 pounds,so its a small price to pay to have a great partner to spend the rest of my life with and thats how I have dealt with it personally.

Thanks all .

Nick

[Maigo6]

In the bigger scheme of things had I married in the UK,it would have cost near on 15,000 pounds,so its a small price to pay to have a great partner to spend the rest of my life with and thats how I have dealt with it personally.

Thanks all .

Nick

So you're paying 10% of what you would have paid in the UK, your wife and her Family gain face, everyone's a winner.

[britmaveric]

In our village the brides parents pocket the lot,.

Thieving scum!!!!

[siamamerican]

Think you need to respect the society you marry into, but at the same time hold firm on your beliefs. I payed nothing when I married my Thai wife. I felt it lessened our commitment to each other. She didn't have an issue with it. Looking back, it may have been a mistake. Her family was laughed at.

Five years have past now and I have helped her family out on numerous occasions. They respect me and are better off than before our marriage. Not sure if I made the right decision, but all seems to have ended well.

Edited September 9, 2007 by siamamerican

[griser]

My wife mentioned to me that the Wife of Paradorn was paid something like 23 million baht for her sin sot, she's the canadian who won the Ms. universe contest. So it does happen, My guess is shes pocketted the money too. lol

Greg

[siamamerican]

My wife mentioned to me that the Wife of Paradorn was paid something like 23 million baht for her sin sot, she's the canadian who won the Ms. universe contest. So it does happen, My guess is shes pocketted the money too. lol

Greg

As for a Canadian getting 23 mil, that is nothing compared to California. California is a community state, which means you get half of the spouse's net worth. In actuality it is sometimes less, but none the less, more than 23 mil, assuming Paradorn is worth more than 86 mil.

[Nickthegreek]

Think you need to respect the society you marry into, but at the same time hold firm on your beliefs. I payed nothing when I married my Thai wife. I felt it lessened our commitment to each other. She didn't have an issue with it. Looking back, it may have been a mistake. Her family was laughed at.

Five years have past now and I have helped her family out on numerous occasions. They respect me and are better off than before our marriage. Not sure if I made the right decision, but all seems to have ended well.

Hi Siamamerican,

Glad you were so honest.I will just go with it and to be fair,if it means that her father doesnt have to work in the farm for a few months cutting cane on his own and waiting for the Thai government to pay for the cane crop that they sold at the end of last year,then well,I guess they will be ok for a while.

Nick