Is There A Future For Thai-american Attorneys Who Wanna Work In Thailand?

[bluegibbon]

I've been interested in this for a while and don't know who else to turn to to ask this question. I'm an 18-year-old American of Thai (half-thai/half-american, so luk kreung actually) descent who's interested in the idea of working in Thailand after getting my law degree in the US so that I can finally live in Thailand and be among caring family, friends, and relatives who I've known my whole life & finally raise a successful family and hopefully send any of my future children to very good schooling, yadda yadda yadda.

So, I'm wondering, would a semi-expat with a respectable American law degree and good knowledge of both Thai and English be able to secure a decent job in that field in either Bangkok or northern Thailand?

If not, what kind of career is possible for an American with a grad/professional degree? I'll be basing a lot of my college course off of being able to also have a suitable career in Thailand so this is important. I'd prefer to do law

(please answer my question well, i'm a voice similar to the one of many of your current/future children who'll be wondering about their own careers, many years in the future! )

[Prakanong]

Do you have dual Thai / American citizenship so it will be easy for you to live there?

I think that might help others answer your question

[bluegibbon]

Do you have dual Thai / American citizenship so it will be easy for you to live there?

I think that might help others answer your question

Nope. I thought dual Thai/US citizenship is against the rules?

[samran]

definetly possible. Quite a few young people here working in law. Some farangs, some boomerang Thai's like yourself who have lived and studied overseas most of your life.

Essential things that you'll need though.

- thai language skills, you'll have to communicate with clients. None of this 'phut phasa thai dai nit noi' malarky. If you can't talk contract/litigation/corporate finance/M&A in Thai, then you are going to be struggling.

- a thai passport will make things easier

- 5 years work experience at a blue chip, top notch, US law firm.

Things to remember:

- you'll be competing with some very smart and tough cookies, so don't take the fact that you have lived OS as any significant advantage. Most of the people you'll be competing with are 'Thai-inters' as well.

- might be better to spends some time in UK, Singapore or HK as well before you move here.

Suggestion

- On summer vacation, see if you can wangle an internship with some of the law firms here. Do that for each of your summer vacations. It looks good and will help you understand what it takes to work here.

- Spend a year here on an exchange.

[samran]

Do you have dual Thai / American citizenship so it will be easy for you to live there?

I think that might help others answer your question

Nope. I thought dual Thai/US citizenship is against the rules?

if you wanna be a lawyer, best to study the law (and interpretation) on this before anything else. Call it practical training.

[Jimjim]

I don't think it's against the rules if you're half Thai and half American by birth. It may be too late to get the fairly automatic Thai citizenship at this point, though. Actually, I don't know if it's against the rules at all. I've heard that before but it seems it's only when you're a complete foreigner and then want to change to be Thai. Thailand may ask you to give up your other citizenship. Samran would know, for sure. What say you, Samran?

Edit: As for law, I bet you certainly could eventually get a job at an international law firm in Bangkok or Chiang Mai, once you have your law degree. It sounds like a good idea to me. Focus on international law in school, if possible.

Edited September 14, 2007 by Jimjim

[bluegibbon]

Do you have dual Thai / American citizenship so it will be easy for you to live there?

I think that might help others answer your question

Nope. I thought dual Thai/US citizenship is against the rules?

if you wanna be a lawyer, best to study the law (and interpretation) on this before anything else. Call it practical training.

i'll get right to that!

[samran]

I don't think it's against the rules if you're half Thai and half American by birth. It may be too late to get the fairly automatic Thai citizenship at this point, though. Actually, I don't know if it's against the rules at all. I've heard that before but it seems it's only when you're a complete foreigner and then want to change to be Thai. Thailand may ask you to give up your other citizenship. Samran would know, for sure. What say you, Samran?

Totally possible and interpreted to be legal (though the law as it is written is somewhat iffy if you read it verbatim).

The OP if born in the states will have to start the process by getting a Thai BC, and then passport, entering Thailand on Thai PP, getting his ID and tabieen baan sorted, and then figuring out his military obligations.

But given that he is a budding lawyer, I shall leave the details for him as a kind of a research project

heheh

[Prakanong]

I met a girl here in singapore last month - down from thaland with her Scottish husband

Said it took her 30 years to get her Thai citizenship as it was her mother who was Thai - had to have DNA tests proving it and a whole load of mess.

Said it should have been done at birth so no hassle

[samran]

I met a girl here in singapore last month - down from thaland with her Scottish husband

Said it took her 30 years to get her Thai citizenship as it was her mother who was Thai - had to have DNA tests proving it and a whole load of mess.

Said it should have been done at birth so no hassle

Doing it by DNA is the option of last resort for those who are unable to prove it by documentation. One of our members, greenwanderer, recently got his Thai citizenship this way.

Thai law passes citizenship on primarily by blood, which means once you have Thai nationality established, your family can theoretically move away from thailand for generations with Thai citizenship always being passed down, regardless of place of birth.

Compare this to the west, where if after 2 generations that family does not have any bonds with their 'home' country, the rights to citizenship are usually lost in most cases.

[Prakanong]

I met a girl here in singapore last month - down from thaland with her Scottish husband

Said it took her 30 years to get her Thai citizenship as it was her mother who was Thai - had to have DNA tests proving it and a whole load of mess.

Said it should have been done at birth so no hassle

Doing it by DNA is the option of last resort for those who are unable to prove it by documentation. One of our members, greenwanderer, recently got his Thai citizenship this way.

Thai law passes citizenship on primarily by blood, which means once you have Thai nationality established, your family can theoretically move away from thailand for generations with Thai citizenship always being passed down, regardless of place of birth.

Compare this to the west, where if after 2 generations that family does not have any bonds with their 'home' country, the rights to citizenship are usually lost in most cases.

A bit like Jews and Israel then?

[samran]

I met a girl here in singapore last month - down from thaland with her Scottish husband

Said it took her 30 years to get her Thai citizenship as it was her mother who was Thai - had to have DNA tests proving it and a whole load of mess.

Said it should have been done at birth so no hassle

Doing it by DNA is the option of last resort for those who are unable to prove it by documentation. One of our members, greenwanderer, recently got his Thai citizenship this way.

Thai law passes citizenship on primarily by blood, which means once you have Thai nationality established, your family can theoretically move away from thailand for generations with Thai citizenship always being passed down, regardless of place of birth.

Compare this to the west, where if after 2 generations that family does not have any bonds with their 'home' country, the rights to citizenship are usually lost in most cases.

A bit like Jews and Israel then?

Not exactly sure how Israeli right of return works, but the thai law simply states that children born to a thai national, whether inside or outside of the kingdom, are shall be considered Thai nationals.

The only other ways to get thai nationality, are to be naturalised as a Thai, or to be born on Thai soil to a parent who is a permanent resident of Thailand.

[lannarebirth]

I think the OP could make a career he would be happy with. personally, i'd steer clear of catering to the farang community and look to specialize in say Intellectual Property law, environmental law, admiralty law, IT law, or something that might make you essential. probaly have to get a law dgree here as well, but that's pretty easy, if your language is up to scratch.

[steveromagnino]

I've been interested in this for a while and don't know who else to turn to to ask this question. I'm an 18-year-old American of Thai (half-thai/half-american, so luk kreung actually) descent who's interested in the idea of working in Thailand after getting my law degree in the US so that I can finally live in Thailand and be among caring family, friends, and relatives who I've known my whole life & finally raise a successful family and hopefully send any of my future children to very good schooling, yadda yadda yadda.

So, I'm wondering, would a semi-expat with a respectable American law degree and good knowledge of both Thai and English be able to secure a decent job in that field in either Bangkok or northern Thailand?

If not, what kind of career is possible for an American with a grad/professional degree? I'll be basing a lot of my college course off of being able to also have a suitable career in Thailand so this is important. I'd prefer to do law

(please answer my question well, i'm a voice similar to the one of many of your current/future children who'll be wondering about their own careers, many years in the future! )

Know plenty of foreign born lawyers working here already. Work in commercial law; more money and easier to transfer your knowledge in many ways. The non Thais work as consultants. Get dual citizenship and this won't be an issue.

As you probably are aware, Thai law and USA law are different, in the same way USA and NZ or USA and British law are quite different; however going to a decent law school, and understanding the key concepts should leave you in good steed.

There is no money in northern THailand for the most part, the money is in BKK.

as Samran says, you aren't in the typical look krueng circles (which are where, with respect, most poster's kids will be just simply based on the law of averages) of acting/modelling, holidaying or borrowing off parents; you are intending to work here and as such you will not be judged on your looks or much else; I have met some Thai educated lawyers that would put most lawyers anywhere to shame; you will have to prove to Baker McKenzie or any of the other louty hiso firms here that you are as good as them or better.

Brush up on your Thai reading skills as well, quite important as there is a lot of statute here.

The internship is a great plan; get some time under your belt and you will know if you want to work here (or not).

[Furbie]

My understanding is that the US does not allow dual citizenship with Thailand; however, I do know of several people who have both citizenships - though they never told the US about their Thai status. You should check this first, as it is a good way to loose your US citizenship if the gov finds out. Again, I am not sure, but this is what I gathered from speaking with people. I also know of several Thais who have come back from the US, basically being born and growing up there – almost all only have US citizenship – or are not mentioning their Thai status.

As to practicing law, as some posters have pointed out, Thai law and US law are utterly different. As a non-Thai citizen, you cannot practice law in Thailand - you can, however, serve as a legal consultant, which is what foreign lawyers in Thailand do.

If you want to practice Thai law, you will need a Thai law degree - which in Thailand is actually a BA. Higher powered attorneys in Thailand usually go for their BA locally and then go oversees to get a Masters in Law, not a law degree in the traditional US sense - 4 year BA and 3 years of law school. As a result, local Thai law is not the most lucrative field (though of course top guys make money, especially good M&A guys). This is the route you will need to take to be a practicing Thai attorney - all documents, etc. will also need to be in Thai - so you better speak, read and write fluent Thai as well.

If you want to be a legal consultant (generally more lucrative, but less opportunity), you will need to get a oversees law degree and focus on corporate or international law (best option, though I have seen others). While there are jobs here available for you, I would definitely try to be a law clerk somewhere in the US where the experience will transfer at the very least – working in a good firm after earning your degree first would be much better - but as you can see, your time-line is kicking out to your 27-28 with this route. The bulk of senior foreign lawyers in Thailand are doing transactional law and bringing in Western businesses to the firm - the white face of the firm. I have only seen a few US guys who are fresh out of law school types, though I have seen a number of junior lawyers working on transactional law. Hope it helps.

[Prakanong]

I met a girl here in singapore last month - down from thaland with her Scottish husband

Said it took her 30 years to get her Thai citizenship as it was her mother who was Thai - had to have DNA tests proving it and a whole load of mess.

Said it should have been done at birth so no hassle

Doing it by DNA is the option of last resort for those who are unable to prove it by documentation. One of our members, greenwanderer, recently got his Thai citizenship this way.

Thai law passes citizenship on primarily by blood, which means once you have Thai nationality established, your family can theoretically move away from thailand for generations with Thai citizenship always being passed down, regardless of place of birth.

Compare this to the west, where if after 2 generations that family does not have any bonds with their 'home' country, the rights to citizenship are usually lost in most cases.

A bit like Jews and Israel then?

Not exactly sure how Israeli right of return works, but the thai law simply states that children born to a thai national, whether inside or outside of the kingdom, are shall be considered Thai nationals.

The only other ways to get thai nationality, are to be naturalised as a Thai, or to be born on Thai soil to a parent who is a permanent resident of Thailand.

The girl I spoke to said it took her a long time.

Thai mother, German father and as you said she must have has no papers rgistred at birth.

Is it harder on the mothers line? - that was certainly her opinion?

[britmaveric]

Specify in International Law.

[blizzard]

stay a us citizen, and then do whatever. you may regret giving it up.

[Prakanong]

stay a us citizen, and then do whatever. you may regret giving it up.

Why wuold he have to give it up?

Its best not to post if you know nothing of the dubject!

[blizzard]

i dont know? some r indicating he may have to give it up. im just saying dont screw up yr usa status yet. finish school and see wot usa has to offer.

lots of peeple post who dont know wot they talking about.

not all yr posts r of geniuus quality

no offense but usa is the greatest show on the planet! and you can take that to kasicorn bank!

Edited September 15, 2007 by blizzard

[samran]

i dont know? some r indicating he may have to give it up. im just saying dont screw up yr usa status yet. finish school and see wot usa has to offer.

lots of peeple post who dont know wot they talking about.

not all yr posts r of geniuus quality

no offense but usa is the greatest show on the planet! and you can take that to kasicorn bank!

yeah, whatever.

A quick check of the state department website will quickly tell you while the US doesn't forbid dual nationality, it doesn't discourage it. Further reseatch will tell you there are etremely limited circumstances in which the US can revoke citizenship. Using your rights to a Thai passport isn't one of them.

[blizzard]

shouldnt it be usa doesnt forbid it, but doesnt encourage it. sounds confusing.

[Kf6vci]

My gf has dual citizenship but makes a pittance despite having an accounting degree and 7 years experience. So if making big bucks is your ultimate aim, this may not be achieveable here. But on the other side, you might enjoy a different lifestyle over here while you would have lots of high pressure and stress in the States. ** I recall visiting the GDR a few weeks after the fall of the wall. Folks were queuing for some goods, but they had LEISURE and a better quality of life, socially. ** Generally, you can plan all you want - what will happen is another matter You might fall in love with an African and end up in South Africa instead.

[Furbie]

i dont know? some r indicating he may have to give it up. im just saying dont screw up yr usa status yet. finish school and see wot usa has to offer.

lots of peeple post who dont know wot they talking about.

not all yr posts r of geniuus quality

no offense but usa is the greatest show on the planet! and you can take that to kasicorn bank!

yeah, whatever.

A quick check of the state department website will quickly tell you while the US doesn't forbid dual nationality, it doesn't discourage it. Further reseatch will tell you there are etremely limited circumstances in which the US can revoke citizenship. Using your rights to a Thai passport isn't one of them.

Let me clear it up some ; the law says you can lose your US citizenship if you obtain naturalization from another country with the intention of relinquishing US citizenship. So, unless you do something particularly against the US -"(4) performs an act made potentially expatriating by statute accompanied by conduct which is so inconsistent with retention of U.S. citizenship that it compels a conclusion that the individual intended to relinquish U.S. citizenship," you would, in theory be OK. However, in these days of the Patriot Act, etc., I would be very careful with dual citizenship as number 4 is pretty broad and it seems to me the law and policy surrounding it is vauge and is based upon a department uniform standard of evidence, meaning an administrative change can change this, not necessarily a change in statute. But I did not want to get into all this, I wanted to say be careful, I know some people that do have dual, but they don't advertise. It should also be remembered that if you are a US/Thai citizen, the US won't provide you with assistance if you are in Thailand. These are not decisions to be based upon advise from a web board. I would speak to a US immigration lawyer.

Everything below and more can be found here: http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_778.html

Possible Loss of U.S. Citizenship and Dual Nationality

ADVICE ABOUT POSSIBLE LOSS OF U.S. CITIZENSHIP AND DUAL NATIONALITY The Department of State is responsible for determining the citizenship status of a person located outside the United States or in connection with the application for a U.S. passport while in the United States.

POTENTIALLY EXPATRIATING STATUTES

Section 349 of the Immigration and Nationality Act, as amended, states that U.S. citizens are subject to loss of citizenship if they perform certain acts voluntarily and with the intention to relinquish U.S. citizenship. Briefly stated, these acts include:

(1) obtaining naturalization in a foreign state (Sec. 349 (a) (1) INA);

(2) taking an oath, affirmation or other formal declaration to a foreign state or its political subdivisions (Sec. 349 (a) (2) INA);

(3) entering or serving in the armed forces of a foreign state engaged in hostilities against the U.S. or serving as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer in the armed forces of a foreign state (Sec. 349 (a) (3) INA);

(4) accepting employment with a foreign government if (a) one has the nationality of that foreign state or ( a declaration of allegiance is required in accepting the position (Sec. 349 (a) (4) INA);

(5) formally renouncing U.S. citizenship before a U.S. consular officer outside the United States (sec. 349 (a) (5) INA);

(6) formally renouncing U.S. citizenship within the U.S. (but only "in time of war") (Sec. 349 (a) (6) INA);

(7) conviction for an act of treason (Sec. 349 (a) (7) INA).

ADMINISTRATIVE STANDARD OF EVIDENCE As already noted, the actions listed above can cause loss of U.S. citizenship only if performed voluntarily and with the intention of relinquishing U.S. citizenship.The Department has a uniform administrative standard of evidence based on the premise that U.S. citizens intend to retain United States citizenship when they obtain naturalization in a foreign state, subscribe to routine declarations of allegiance to a foreign state, or accept non-policy level employment with a foreign government.

DISPOSITION OF CASES WHEN ADMINISTRATIVE PREMISE IS INAPPLICABLE

The premise that a person intends to retain U.S. citizenship is not applicable when the individual:

(1) formally renounces U.S. citizenship before a consular officer;

(2) takes a policy level position in a foreign state;

(3) is convicted of treason; or

(4) performs an act made potentially expatriating by statute accompanied by conduct which is so inconsistent with retention of U.S. citizenship that it compels a conclusion that the individual intended to relinquish U.S. citizenship. (Such cases are very rare.)

Cases in categories 2, 3, and 4 will be developed carefully by U.S. consular officers to ascertain the individual's intent toward U.S. citizenship.

[blizzard]

like i said . why jepordize yr usa citizenship?

one doesnt need to be a genius to figure this out.

but WHATEVER as some might say!