Retirement Visa Extension Experience (long)

[Mrjlh]

Well my year was up and I finally had to go through that wonderful experience of getting my Retirement Visa Extension. So I thought I would share my experience and pass along a tip or two. Sorry if this is some what redundant for what has been posted before and a bit long.

First, I'm from the USA. I don't have 800K in the Thai bank, only in the US which I will not bring over. I get a monthly Social Security check, which by the way is NOT a "Pension" as it has been referred too many times. (That's another discussion.) Here’s what happened:

I make my way to the Phuket Immigration Office last week thinking I was prepared. First they want to see my 800K bank deposit. "Oh, you no have deposit 800K last three months?" "You no can get extension!" Wait I explain. I have monthly income. "Oh, you need to see boss". Fact: I have "notarized" copies of income from Social Security, bank passbooks copies, nicely filled out form TM 7, etc....

I see the boss. "Sorry you need Embassy stamp. You get Embassy stamp every thing is OK.” (I should have asked what else do I need?) Oh great! Now I have to travel to Bangkok to get paperwork. Luckily the US embassy people were in Karon on Friday and it saved me a trip. But last week, after thinking I had everything under control, I discovered I really didn’t. Every method I used in the US to secure my original Visa did not apply here.

First hint: The Thai’s want “official” documents from here locally. Not abroad unless it’s from an Embassy.

The Gazette posted the Immigration Rule 606/2549 and I’m glad they did. Second tip: in it you will find all the rules and requirements you need. All you have to do is sit down and really read it. Do not interpret it. Don’t argue with it as I read several people like to do here. Yes, there are a couple of flaws as it has been pointed out. But it’s what Immigration follows, and you just have to deal with it. Remember it’s their country!

OK, I go see the Embassy on Friday, get my “official” letter and armed with that I’m back in Phuket.

“Good”, the man says, “where’s bank letter?”

“What bank letter?”

“The one for bank account.”

“I have copies of the bank book as your regulation says.”

“I no see bank letter”

I re-read the regulation/rule. “Certificate of local bank account deposit together with copies of bank account records”. OOP’s! That’s when it really dawns on me what they simply want. I start to go get the bank letter and he says, “You need money in Bank”.

“What? Why?” I show on the date of my application (which was the preceding week) I have enough money in the bank to make up the difference and then some for the 800K rule.”

“Sorry, today not last week. You need to make up difference, today. You spend money since last week?” Uh???? Yea, I did.

“Ok, Ok” I run to the bank make up the my 10,000B difference, get the letter, go back, and low and behold…he has Certified letter from Embassy and Bank and account makes it 800K…now he’s happy! I’m happy. Visa approved!

All this running around and worrying if I had only taken my time and asked the right questions it would have been easy. The language barrier is a problem no doubt, but if Immigration had an easy to follow visual flow chart for us all, it may have really helped a lot. So with this long story let’s cut to the chase. This is what I learned from my experience, sitting, waiting and watching several others get grilled for lack of documents.

Getting a Retirement Visa Extension is really this easy:

Obviously you will need: 1) Your Passport 2) your application with a 4mm x 6mm picture. 3) 1900 Baht or the current rate

Then you need to meet either one of three conditions:

800K in a Thai bank for 3 months prior to “date” you apply. You will need a “Certificate letter from the Bank”. Hint: get that letter the day you walk into get your extension. It shows them you actually have the correct amount on the day you apply. You will need copies of your pass book…ALL Pages. Make sure the last entry in the bank book matches your letter, they look for it. (Not a requirement but they may ask you to show proof where you are currently living, as they did for one gentleman from England today. This is in the rules. The agent may other questions as he wishes, so be prepared)

----OR-----

You need proof of “INCOME of 65,000B a month” and “CERTIFIED” by your Embassy. They have an “and/or” clause so you “may” need to provide them with copies of your bank book and Certified letter from the bank. They will calculate your earnings at the current exchange rate. Make sure you are over the 65,000B a month at the current exchange rate or you will fall into the next group as I did.

-----OR---

You need proof of monthly INCOME** “CERTIFIED” by your Embassy plus current “Bank deposits which when added to your yearly income will total no LESS than ***800K”, (your current bank balance must also be “CERTIFIED” by letter from the bank) and you will need copies of your passbook taken “ON” the DATE you apply. Make sure the last entry of your passbook matches the amount the bank says you have. They check.

** Notice I stated no amount for income in the last part. As in my case when I first arrived I qualified on income no problem. But the Baht got stronger and it fell below the limit in which case you need to make up the difference.

*** IMPORTANT: They multiply your income earnings by 12 then subtract that number from 800K. The difference they arrive at is the amount you need to have in your bank account on “the day you apply”. Example: $1800US X 34.00B X 12 months = 734,400B subtracted from 800K=65,600B you need to have in the bank showing as a balance. And it helps to be over the amount.

This is my “experience” and my opinion of how to get it done easier. Now that I have done it doesn’t seem to be such a mystery or confusing thing. If it helps anyone great! That’s the whole point. If you think about it with the three conditions especially the last one, they have made it easier to qualify.

[Lite Beer]

they have made it easier to qualify.

:D

[Briggsy]

Informative post. I feared after the first few paragraphs it was about to turn into an irrational rant but thankfully I was wrong.

[Jingthing]

A book publishing opportunity for someone:

Thai retirement extensions FOR DUMMIES

Not really joking. Someone who could make the formal visa regulations easy to understand with lots of examples and pictures. Trouble is the book would have to be updated constantly.

Edited September 15, 2007 by Jingthing

[Viceroy]

Many thanks, mrjlh, for a very interesting and informative post!

[JimGant]

Uh, what guidelines were you following when you initially set off for Immigration? That they didn't mention you needed an Embassy certification of income is curious.....

That you've posted here 28 times before now -- and also didn't know about income certification -- is also curious. But, in fairness, there is a lot of wading through required here to cut to the chase.

Maybe Lopburi will eventually get tired of answering the same questions repeatedly -- and pin a FOR DUMMIES guideline at the top.

[Mrjlh]

they have made it easier to qualify.

:D

Too many beers I presume? We are are scamed to believing you have to have 800K in the bank or make 65,000B a month. Wrong the last clause gives people an out. If you only have $9500 in the bank and make only $1200 a month you can qualify! Figure it out yourself. Many combinations make it easier.

[tijnebijn]

I think the Op makes a very good point .

Many members on this forum do not understand it easy also .

How you summed it up and wrote down your experience , in my opinion , is very appreciated .

And not every retiree can speak or even read English that good , because it is not their native language .

So the know how for dummies is a great idea I guess .

[Mrjlh]

Uh, what guidelines were you following when you initially set off for Immigration? That they didn't mention you needed an Embassy certification of income is curious.....

That you've posted here 28 times before now -- and also didn't know about income certification -- is also curious. But, in fairness, there is a lot of wading through required here to cut to the chase.

Maybe Lopburi will eventually get tired of answering the same questions repeatedly -- and pin a FOR DUMMIES guideline at the top.

Kindly show me where it says "Embassy" in the rules. It says "Proof of Income". A notarized copy from the government qualifies when in the US but not here according to Immigration. No where does it say "Embassy" in the rules except what is quoted "unofficially" here on this board. If one travels to their home country (as I did) and gets the required documents within the 30 day period before one applies, one would "assume" (there's that ASS in U & Me again) it would be valid. Not so according to Immigration.

And I agree, maybe a simple follow this "FOR DUMMIES Guide" would do the job. Except at the very bottom of the 606/2549 rule there is another clause. Simply put they can disqualify you for almost any reason they want. But the Guide would really help others.

Maybe the solution is to have a very knowledgeable person like yourself or Lopburi contact Immigration and with their involvement make a "simple to follow guide" to be posted or even handed out at the Office. if would save them time also.

[JimGant]

Kindly show me where it says "Embassy" in the rules. It says "Proof of Income".

My apologies. I guess I have logged on to this forum too many times -- and have seen where "embassy/consulate certification" of income is required. And that appears to be the case based on experiences posted here. But just where this is officially stipulated, I don't know.

So, per your experience, even more reason for our resident expert, Lopburi, to pin a DUMMIES 'must read" to preclude having to wade through all this muck to ascertain 'what is what' on the reality level. (Or to preclude asking the same question -- and getting the same answer -- time after time.)

[brahmburgers]

the OP letter is appreciated, as is the idea of a reasonably easy to understand guide book - though it would be better as a monthly pamphlet - because of constant changes and interpretations. It could also include a comparison of Thai imm places within and outside of Thailand - somewhat like a score sheet - articulating their various rule interpretations, which person is easier to work with, what time of day is preferable for an office visit (clerical workers get ornery towards the latter part of their work-day), etc.

[Lite Beer]

There will never be a definitive guide to Visa applications because every Immigration office uses a different set of rules.

Even different officers in the same office will differ as to what they want.

That is why they are not making it very easy to comply.

You just have to take every thing you can think of and hope it is enough.

[LivinginKata]

There will never be a definitive guide to Visa applications because every Immigration office uses a different set of rules.

Even different officers in the same office will differ as to what they want.

That is why they are not making it very easy to comply.

You just have to take every thing you can think of and hope it is enough.

Roger that.... exactly what I think & do This is a golden rule, take every document you can think about, with copies, and for sure the officier will ask (demand) some other document. Just smile, say no problem, and go get it, with copies.

[Mrjlh]

There will never be a definitive guide to Visa applications because every Immigration office uses a different set of rules.

Even different officers in the same office will differ as to what they want.

That is why they are not making it very easy to comply.

You just have to take every thing you can think of and hope it is enough.

You hit the nail on the Head! Phuket wants what I stated but maybe Phang Na accepts what I originally had. Who knows? But how can we find out?

Maybe the answer lies in actually putting a group of Ex-pats together and using 606/2549 as the "guide" in the third column and line item by line item ask Immigration to clarify what is considered "acceptable" documents. Even go to or send to each office. Maybe start at the top and let it trickle down.

Oh GOD, this looks like "work"! And being retired...I can't "work"!... and I don't want to work...

Even if "Thai Visa Forum" put out a "flyer" or "handout" to be distributed to all the Offices, think of the free advertising he can get!

[grantbkk]

A book publishing opportunity for someone:

Thai retirement extensions FOR DUMMIES

Not really joking. Someone who could make the formal visa regulations easy to understand with lots of examples and pictures. Trouble is the book would have to be updated constantly.

Thai Retirement Visa for Dummies by John Arnone with an introduction by Eric Bahrt

[grantbkk]

Ominous Visit to the Thai Immigration Office

Last Friday I paid a visit to the Immigration Office in Bangkok to pick up some forms and to get some first hand information regarding the latest slate of changes on the Retirement Visa extension program. I have a contact there so I was able to bypass the 300 or so people waiting on the first floor to conduct their business and talk to a captain and actual officer working at one of the visa desks.

The officer gave me the forms I will be required to return next week to renew my visa and secure a multiple entry stamp (TM 7 and TM8). She continually stressed the need for the letter from my bank detailing my international money transfers and the fact that I've had more than Bt800,000 in my savings account for at least three months. I asked her if there were any other forms or paper work that Immigration needed from my bank and she said the letter was all that was required.

The requirement for a medical certificate for a Retirement Visa has been lifted.

I was further informed that I must complete my visa extension process before October 1st. Of course I inquired as to the reason (twice). The Immigration Office put her face in her hands and then said she didn't know what the changes were going to be but they were coming and to get my visa before October 1st.

I have to say that I've been going to the same office for five years and I've never seen so many people and the feeling of stress throughout the place was palpable. An elderly farang and his Thai wife were in tears at the next desk. They were showing pictures of their home and the officer was telling him he didn't have enough money and would have to leave Thailand.

I hope this firsthand account of an actual visit to the Immigration Office will help someone else in some way. There is way too much speculation going on however, my visit will probably just add fuel to the fire.

Good luck!

[Miami Bob]

I used to work as a volunteer at the Patong immigration office as part of the tourist police program and I can tell you the posters are correct when they say the rules change depending on the interpretation of the officer and the office you go to, plus the rule book is always changing. A phrase I heard many times is " up to the discrestion of the officer ". Just try to be as prepared as possible and do not get pushy with the officers, that's a huge mistake.

One thing I didn't hear mentioned in this discussion is that your money has to be in a regular Thai bank account. The SFF account that pays 4% interest is not allowed, at least not in Phuket.

[mark131v]

Guys,

am i missing something again. I was under the impression that the monthly income you must prove was B 40k per month and that could be from both parties. When did this change to B 65k per month

many thanks Mark

[LivinginKata]

The 65k/month refers to one year extension requirements for retirement (over 50) pension or WP income.

The 40k/month refers to one year extension requiremnts when married to a Thai national.

[mark131v]

Cheers for that,

was getting a bit worried keep seeing B 65k bandied around, seems like a large amount per month about £950 !! quite a few pensions are going to struggle to pay that every month

[Mrjlh]

Guys,

am i missing something again. I was under the impression that the monthly income you must prove was B 40k per month and that could be from both parties. When did this change to B 65k per month

many thanks Mark

I said it n my original post....READ 606/2549!!!

I depends on if you are married, what country you came from, how old you are, and when you arrived.

Then apply that to your own situation not anyone else's.

[PeaceBlondie]

I said it n my original post....READ 606/2549!!!

I depends on if you are married, what country you came from, how old you are, and when you arrived.

Then apply that to your own situation not anyone else's.

But, Mrjlh, haven't you read that 606/2549 is illegal, at least in part? That the Police Commander will have to rescind the illegal part? Also, later, what other parts of 606/2549 or other police orders will turn out to have been illegal from the moment they were issued? We probably can't issue a handy-dandy, one-size-fits-all manual or guidebook because there are no hard and fast rules, as you've already shown. Thanks for pointing out that retirees (including both farang retired spouses) can meet the 800K bank deposit/65K per month requirements in countless ways.

It helps to read police orders like 606/2549 and just hope and pray that Officer Sadsak and Captain Lotsaluk will accept our paperwork.

[thaimate]

i usually keep about 600k in a thai bankand have just toped it up to over 800k for my yearly retirement visa 4 months hence ,as i transfer money from my nationwide account via my debit card there is no record of my transfers except the slips from the machine ,last year in pattaya i was not asked for a letter from my bank ,does anyone know if they will ask for one as it would be impossable to get .

[lopburi3]

Latest reports have reported being asked to prove foreign origin of there funds if using the 800k bank deposit option. But so far if unable to do so they have received a 30 day under review extension of stay and then the normal extension was being provided without the proof.

[Jingthing]

Latest reports have reported being asked to prove foreign origin of there funds if using the 800k bank deposit option. But so far if unable to do so they have received a 30 day under review extension of stay and then the normal extension was being provided without the proof.

Haven't these reports been in Bangkok only? How about Jomtien?

[lopburi3]

I am not sure but expect Bangkok is the bellwether and other offices will likely follow their lead.

[Guderian]

One thing I didn't hear mentioned in this discussion is that your money has to be in a regular Thai bank account. The SFF account that pays 4% interest is not allowed, at least not in Phuket.

I visited the Jomtien Immigration office recently to check on the rules and they told me that the 800K Baht has to be in an ordinary savings account, an SFF account is not acceptable. Consistent, it seems.

i usually keep about 600k in a thai bankand have just toped it up to over 800k for my yearly retirement visa 4 months hence ,as i transfer money from my nationwide account via my debit card there is no record of my transfers except the slips from the machine ,last year in pattaya i was not asked for a letter from my bank ,does anyone know if they will ask for one as it would be impossable to get .

I was told in Jomtien that I had to have 800K Baht in a savings account for 3 months before applying for an extension. I was also told that I would have to get a letter from my bank. I asked at the bank and of course they know what is needed, no problem there. No mention was made of proving where the funds have come from.

What does the letter from the bank actually say? I assume that it will be in Thai, which will leave me no wiser. Does it confirm that so many Baht have come from overseas, or is it just a confirmation that your account details are kosher?

I transfer money into my SCB account via the internet, which provides me with no paper trail as to the origin of the funds. I have assumed that the bank could provide written confirmation that they came from overseas if I asked, or am I wrong there? As the Immigration Police Captain that I saw in Jomtien checked my passbook and didn't mention proving the origin of the funds, I didn't worry about it, but as people point out it's better to be prepared for all eventualities. Maybe I should ask the bank to give me proof that the funds came from overseas at the same time as I request the famous letter?

[lopburi3]

The normal letter just provides account number, name and account balance at the time indicated. If you are making transfers from outside the country they will arrive as wire transfers and paper slips will be available from your bank hqs if required. In the past most passbooks could be read for this information but in Bangkok it currently seems they want the extra paperwork at present.

[grantbkk]

Ominous Visit to the Thai Immigration Office

Last Friday I paid a visit to the Immigration Office in Bangkok to pick up some forms and to get some first hand information regarding the latest slate of changes on the Retirement Visa extension program. I have a contact there so I was able to bypass the 300 or so people waiting on the first floor to conduct their business and talk to a captain and actual officer working at one of the visa desks.

The officer gave me the forms I will be required to return next week to renew my visa and secure a multiple entry stamp (TM 7 and TM8). She continually stressed the need for the letter from my bank detailing my international money transfers and the fact that I've had more than Bt800,000 in my savings account for at least three months. I asked her if there were any other forms or paper work that Immigration needed from my bank and she said the letter was all that was required.

The requirement for a medical certificate for a Retirement Visa has been lifted.

I was further informed that I must complete my visa extension process before October 1st. Of course I inquired as to the reason (twice). The Immigration Office put her face in her hands and then said she didn't know what the changes were going to be but they were coming and to get my visa before October 1st.

I have to say that I've been going to the same office for five years and I've never seen so many people and the feeling of stress throughout the place was palpable. An elderly farang and his Thai wife were in tears at the next desk. They were showing pictures of their home and the officer was telling him he didn't have enough money and would have to leave Thailand.

I hope this firsthand account of an actual visit to the Immigration Office will help someone else in some way. There is way too much speculation going on however, my visit will probably just add fuel to the fire.

Good luck!

I just returned from the Bangkok Immigration Office and after spending an hour and a half I had both my one year Retirement Visa extention and a multiple entry stamp. I used the Bt800,000 option and had the money in SCB for three months. They used the letter from the bank stating my balance as of yesterday and copies of everypage of my passbook. The also scrutinized and kept the records of my international money transfers that the bank provided. They checked my passbook against the paperwork I provided and said all was in order. I still don't know if they really need the map. The officer looked at it and showed it to the officer next to her. I said I got it off of the internet. They laughed and kept it in the package.

[Guderian]

The normal letter just provides account number, name and account balance at the time indicated. If you are making transfers from outside the country they will arrive as wire transfers and paper slips will be available from your bank hqs if required. In the past most passbooks could be read for this information but in Bangkok it currently seems they want the extra paperwork at present.

Just a quick update on getting the proof from the bank that funds came from overseas - it may be helpful to some people.

I went to the branch of SCB I use on Beach Road in Pattaya and saw one of the ladies who sit to the right of the staircase as you come in through the door. This was the same one who had told me wrongly a few weeks earlier that I only needed 800K Baht in my account for a few days before applying for a retirement extension, so I was wary of her . She didn't understand what I wanted and gave up in disgust and called her supervisor over. I explained to her at some length what I wanted, though she seemed to be arguing about it all the while that she was tapping away at the computer. She seemed to be saying that as my account had been open for more than 6 months, no proof was needed, but mixing it in with the 30% withholding tax on funds of over $20K, so I was a bit lost as to what she was going on about to be honest.

But then she started printing out some pages and gave them to me, and they were copies of the detailed bank records of the transfers I had made earlier in the year from my offshore account, showing the originating bank, account numbers, swift and IBAN codes, exchange rate, and so on. This seemed to be exactly what I wanted, and she even printed out a summary validation on the last page. She gave them to me with a smile and there was no charge.

I hope that I don't need them when I apply in December, but it is nice to know that I have got the proof if it is asked for.

I hope this helps somebody anyway.