Does Poverty In Thailand Ever Get You Down?

[farang prince]

Obviously RealMadrid has not done much travelling. If you want to see poverty, go to India. Go to Bangladesh. Go to Darfur. Go to Somalia. Go to West Africa. Your thread is sanctimonious and based on many false assumptions. Do some living. Then get back to us.

[khall64au]

i know i am supposed to be thrilled that prices in Thailand are low and the Thai people are mostly poor, and all of the advantages this provides middle aged Western men living in Thailand but I just can't do it. Does anyone else find it kind of sickening how much farang in Thailand talk about how cheap everything is and what they can get? You see a young girl walking with an old man and it just destroys you. If she was born in another country her life would be so much better. Also I get the feeling that the majority of westerners in Thailand failed in their home countries.

Women in Western countries have ended up with way too much power in relationships after Women's Lib added power about certain things without taking away balances to men's power that women had been granted traditionally. Western women are quite happy about this.

In South East Asia, men have much more power, which Western men are glad to take advantage of to make things more "even" in their lives. It would be nice if relaionships were "fair" all over the planet, but they are not.

Who can blame men for moving to countries where things work in their favor?

'You can call us sexy broads'

September 14, 2007 - 6:35AM

Queensland is now a state run by women.

For the first time in history, the state's two highest posts are occupied by women - Premier Anna Bligh and Governor Quentin Bryce.

As the governor formally swore in Ms Bligh at Government House in Brisbane shortly after 11am yesterday, she acknowledged the historic importance of the occasion.

"The magnitude of the history-shaping we observe today must be acknowledged and recognised," Ms Bryce said.

Ms Bryce, a former national sex discrimination commissioner, paid tribute to the efforts of women's rights activists and trailblazers from the last century.

She said today's historic ceremony came 78 years after Irene Longman became the first woman elected to Queensland's parliament.

"Contemporary women stand on the shoulders of those who led the struggle for equality of opportunity for women in social economic, cultural and political life," she said.

The significance of the occasion wasn't lost on the other women in Ms Bligh's cabinet either.

They insisted on a women's group shot with the governor after the official cabinet photo on the steps of Government House.

Ms Bligh and Ms Bryce lined up beside ministers Judy Spence, Margaret Keech, Desley Boyle and Lindy Nelson-Carr but a slight awkwardness echoed through the air when a photographer had the nerve to refer to the pack as "girls".

When several women, including members of the media gallery, voiced light-hearted objections to the term, the bewildered photographer asked what they would like to called.

"You can call us sexy broads," Ms Boyle joked.

[kmart]

i know i am supposed to be thrilled that prices in Thailand are low and the Thai people are mostly poor, and all of the advantages this provides middle aged Western men living in Thailand but I just can't do it. Does anyone else find it kind of sickening how much farang in Thailand talk about how cheap everything is and what they can get? You see a young girl walking with an old man and it just destroys you. If she was born in another country her life would be so much better. Also I get the feeling that the majority of westerners in Thailand failed in their home countries.

Perhaps you are part of the problem? Another twit who wants to "save Thailand and the poor Thai people" and is all twisted up with liberal angst and moral outrage. Especially after falling in love with some BG who has several older "boyfriends". Get a life, or at least go see somewhere that is really poor. And then bother the forums there. Flake.

[tartempion]

You see a young girl walking with an old man and it just destroys you.

That young girl is no longer poor, why does it destroys you ?

Also I get the feeling that the majority of westerners in Thailand failed in their home countries.

Where do you get that from?

I live in Isan and know many retired farangs (married to these young girls) and see nothing failed in them (that's including myself)

[Suszzy]

QUOTE(realmadrid25 @ 2007-09-15 04:21:22) Also I get the feeling that the majority of westerners in Thailand failed in their home countries.

humm..is that what you think?

you could be wrong here..!!

[Bpraim1]

So why are you here Real?? Did you get kickout of your country?

Where you not so cool there? Do you feel the need to come frash some money here? If you are so worried about poverty here. Use some of that 120 mill to help someone!!

I know of lots of schools that could use some extra funds for education.

[farang prince]

So why are you here Real?? Did you get kickout of your country?

Where you not so cool there? Do you feel the need to come frash some money here? If you are so worried about poverty here. Use some of that 120 mill to help someone!!

I know of lots of schools that could use some extra funds for education.

Sure, he could open the "RealMadrid's School for Chaste Thai Girls."

[geriatrickid]

Just to refocus some people, Have a look at the new TV posting. That was a foreigner and one of those "evil liberated women". It is unfortunate that it takes a murder to bring the point home.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=142708

[wilko]

THe OP poses an interesting question but unfortunately this is clouided by some unsubstatiated assumptions and conclusions about expats AND Thai society.

I think rather than jump to conclusions you might spend a bit more time reading up and getting to know both Thai and expats cultures.

Poverty and the reasons for poverty in this country make me sick at times...but which is worse the Farang "taking advantage" or the Thai "good and the great" who cause and perpetuate it?

[Neeranam]

Do some living. Then get back to us.

Good advice.

[wilko]

Obviously RealMadrid has not done much travelling. If you want to see poverty, go to India. Go to Bangladesh. Go to Darfur. Go to Somalia. Go to West Africa. Your thread is sanctimonious and based on many false assumptions. Do some living. Then get back to us.

Just because you know of somewhere "poorer" does not been that poverty in Thailand is "OK". One does not just deal with one issue at a time. e.g. "don't save the tiger because we haven't saved the whale yet....."

[BADBRAD]

You need to see a shrink -or to travel a lot more..............................

Get a life and if you really worry and care for Thailand then do something constructive to help the people! ....................

You got it Paul S.

[Andrew Hicks]

Poverty is relative - I've seen far worse places in the world. Most I see have the basics in life (food,water,clothing,lodging) and they make the best of their lot in life.

If you worried about every person in the world you saw that didnt have as much as you, you'd go mental.

Everything you say here is true.

However, while most Thais have the basics, many do not.

While you cannot change the world, you can help a few.

Half the kids in my local school are below the recommended body weight so I am organising a feeding programme for them through a Japan based scheme, 'Adopt a Village School'. It's early days but I commend it to you.

I mention the project in a recent thread, 'Are Isaan farmers poor?' I think tyhese issues about people around us in Thailand are worth discussing, especially if it leads us to do something positive and not just whinge and sit on our hands,

Andrew Hicks

[JR Texas]

Poverty is relative - I've seen far worse places in the world. Most I see have the basics in life (food,water,clothing,lodging) and they make the best of their lot in life.

If you worried about every person in the world you saw that didnt have as much as you, you'd go mental.

Everything you say here is true.

However, while most Thais have the basics, many do not.

While you cannot change the world, you can help a few.

Half the kids in my local school are below the recommended body weight so I am organising a feeding programme for them through a Japan based scheme, 'Adopt a Village School'. It's early days but I commend it to you.

I mention the project in a recent thread, 'Are Isaan farmers poor?' I think tyhese issues about people around us in Thailand are worth discussing, especially if it leads us to do something positive and not just whinge and sit on our hands,

Andrew Hicks

Poverty in Thailand gets me down.........absolutely. I am sick of it. I am sick of it not just in Thailand, but worldwide.

It is 2007 and we are acting like it is the 14th century. Yes, we can eliminate poverty from the face of the earth. The ruling elite would like for you to think otherwise. It is simple: 1) greatly reduce population levels worldwide to perhaps 2 billion tops; 2) develop and deploy a new energy system that will emancipate people from the material conditions of life (totally new system........your personal energy system).

Reducing population levels (and reducing the global supply of slave labor) would be a serious challenge to multinational corporations. The labor supply problem would start to reverse itself, putting more power in the hands of labor.

Developing and deploying a new and sustainable energy system (via a global R&D project) would empower human beings like never before. This would create peace by greatly enhancing the quality of life for the majority. That would challenge the arms industry. Such a system would also make the internal combustion engine obsolete and that would challenge the oil industry.

If we do nothing else for future generations, we should reject any politician that does not address these two issues.

By the way, here is something I did on poverty that might be interesting to some (figures come from UN sources and are already corrected):

DAILY COST OF FEEDING A DAIRY COW

In order to provide milk, butter and cheese for hungry Americans, dairy farmers in the USA spend an average of $4.13 per cow per day on feed.

(data from 2006, http://www.das.psu.edu/user/dairy/newslett...cfm?newsID=842)

ABOUT THREE BILLION PEOPLE ON PLANET EARTH (ROUGHLY 50 PERCENT OF HUMANITY) LIVE ON LESS THAN TWO DOLLARS PER DAY, source 1

LESS THAN HALF OF WHAT WE SPEND ON A COW

1.3 billion people live on less than one dollar per day

3 billion live on less than two dollars per day

IS THIS PROGRESS?

[farang prince]

Poverty is relative - I've seen far worse places in the world. Most I see have the basics in life (food,water,clothing,lodging) and they make the best of their lot in life.

If you worried about every person in the world you saw that didnt have as much as you, you'd go mental.

Everything you say here is true.

However, while most Thais have the basics, many do not.

While you cannot change the world, you can help a few.

Half the kids in my local school are below the recommended body weight so I am organising a feeding programme for them through a Japan based scheme, 'Adopt a Village School'. It's early days but I commend it to you.

I mention the project in a recent thread, 'Are Isaan farmers poor?' I think tyhese issues about people around us in Thailand are worth discussing, especially if it leads us to do something positive and not just whinge and sit on our hands,

Andrew Hicks

Poverty in Thailand gets me down.........absolutely. I am sick of it. I am sick of it not just in Thailand, but worldwide.

It is 2007 and we are acting like it is the 14th century. Yes, we can eliminate poverty from the face of the earth. The ruling elite would like for you to think otherwise. It is simple: 1) greatly reduce population levels worldwide to perhaps 2 billion tops; 2) develop and deploy a new energy system that will emancipate people from the material conditions of life (totally new system........your personal energy system).

Reducing population levels (and reducing the global supply of slave labor) would be a serious challenge to multinational corporations. The labor supply problem would start to reverse itself, putting more power in the hands of labor.

Developing and deploying a new and sustainable energy system (via a global R&D project) would empower human beings like never before. This would create peace by greatly enhancing the quality of life for the majority. That would challenge the arms industry. Such a system would also make the internal combustion engine obsolete and that would challenge the oil industry.

If we do nothing else for future generations, we should reject any politician that does not address these two issues.

By the way, here is something I did on poverty that might be interesting to some (figures come from UN sources and are already corrected):

DAILY COST OF FEEDING A DAIRY COW

In order to provide milk, butter and cheese for hungry Americans, dairy farmers in the USA spend an average of $4.13 per cow per day on feed.

(data from 2006, http://www.das.psu.edu/user/dairy/newslett...cfm?newsID=842)

ABOUT THREE BILLION PEOPLE ON PLANET EARTH (ROUGHLY 50 PERCENT OF HUMANITY) LIVE ON LESS THAN TWO DOLLARS PER DAY, source 1

LESS THAN HALF OF WHAT WE SPEND ON A COW

1.3 billion people live on less than one dollar per day

3 billion live on less than two dollars per day

IS THIS PROGRESS?

Gee, maybe you can start your concept in South Dallas or Houston's 6th Ward.

[wilko]

Poverty is relative - I've seen far worse places in the world. Most I see have the basics in life (food,water,clothing,lodging) and they make the best of their lot in life.

If you worried about every person in the world you saw that didnt have as much as you, you'd go mental.

Everything you say here is true.

However, while most Thais have the basics, many do not.

While you cannot change the world, you can help a few.

Half the kids in my local school are below the recommended body weight so I am organising a feeding programme for them through a Japan based scheme, 'Adopt a Village School'. It's early days but I commend it to you.

I mention the project in a recent thread, 'Are Isaan farmers poor?' I think tyhese issues about people around us in Thailand are worth discussing, especially if it leads us to do something positive and not just whinge and sit on our hands,

Andrew Hicks

Poverty in Thailand gets me down.........absolutely. I am sick of it. I am sick of it not just in Thailand, but worldwide.

It is 2007 and we are acting like it is the 14th century. Yes, we can eliminate poverty from the face of the earth. The ruling elite would like for you to think otherwise. It is simple: 1) greatly reduce population levels worldwide to perhaps 2 billion tops; 2) develop and deploy a new energy system that will emancipate people from the material conditions of life (totally new system........your personal energy system).

Reducing population levels (and reducing the global supply of slave labor) would be a serious challenge to multinational corporations. The labor supply problem would start to reverse itself, putting more power in the hands of labor.

Developing and deploying a new and sustainable energy system (via a global R&D project) would empower human beings like never before. This would create peace by greatly enhancing the quality of life for the majority. That would challenge the arms industry. Such a system would also make the internal combustion engine obsolete and that would challenge the oil industry.

If we do nothing else for future generations, we should reject any politician that does not address these two issues.

By the way, here is something I did on poverty that might be interesting to some (figures come from UN sources and are already corrected):

DAILY COST OF FEEDING A DAIRY COW

In order to provide milk, butter and cheese for hungry Americans, dairy farmers in the USA spend an average of $4.13 per cow per day on feed.

(data from 2006, http://www.das.psu.edu/user/dairy/newslett...cfm?newsID=842)

ABOUT THREE BILLION PEOPLE ON PLANET EARTH (ROUGHLY 50 PERCENT OF HUMANITY) LIVE ON LESS THAN TWO DOLLARS PER DAY, source 1

LESS THAN HALF OF WHAT WE SPEND ON A COW

1.3 billion people live on less than one dollar per day

3 billion live on less than two dollars per day

IS THIS PROGRESS?

Gee, maybe you can start your concept in South Dallas or Houston's 6th Ward.

Concept??? Never heard of that before??

[JR Texas]

Poverty is relative - I've seen far worse places in the world. Most I see have the basics in life (food,water,clothing,lodging) and they make the best of their lot in life.

If you worried about every person in the world you saw that didnt have as much as you, you'd go mental.

Everything you say here is true.

However, while most Thais have the basics, many do not.

While you cannot change the world, you can help a few.

Half the kids in my local school are below the recommended body weight so I am organising a feeding programme for them through a Japan based scheme, 'Adopt a Village School'. It's early days but I commend it to you.

I mention the project in a recent thread, 'Are Isaan farmers poor?' I think tyhese issues about people around us in Thailand are worth discussing, especially if it leads us to do something positive and not just whinge and sit on our hands,

Andrew Hicks

Poverty in Thailand gets me down.........absolutely. I am sick of it. I am sick of it not just in Thailand, but worldwide.

It is 2007 and we are acting like it is the 14th century. Yes, we can eliminate poverty from the face of the earth. The ruling elite would like for you to think otherwise. It is simple: 1) greatly reduce population levels worldwide to perhaps 2 billion tops; 2) develop and deploy a new energy system that will emancipate people from the material conditions of life (totally new system........your personal energy system).

Reducing population levels (and reducing the global supply of slave labor) would be a serious challenge to multinational corporations. The labor supply problem would start to reverse itself, putting more power in the hands of labor.

Developing and deploying a new and sustainable energy system (via a global R&D project) would empower human beings like never before. This would create peace by greatly enhancing the quality of life for the majority. That would challenge the arms industry. Such a system would also make the internal combustion engine obsolete and that would challenge the oil industry.

If we do nothing else for future generations, we should reject any politician that does not address these two issues.

By the way, here is something I did on poverty that might be interesting to some (figures come from UN sources and are already corrected):

DAILY COST OF FEEDING A DAIRY COW

In order to provide milk, butter and cheese for hungry Americans, dairy farmers in the USA spend an average of $4.13 per cow per day on feed.

(data from 2006, http://www.das.psu.edu/user/dairy/newslett...cfm?newsID=842)

ABOUT THREE BILLION PEOPLE ON PLANET EARTH (ROUGHLY 50 PERCENT OF HUMANITY) LIVE ON LESS THAN TWO DOLLARS PER DAY, source 1

LESS THAN HALF OF WHAT WE SPEND ON A COW

1.3 billion people live on less than one dollar per day

3 billion live on less than two dollars per day

IS THIS PROGRESS?

Gee, maybe you can start your concept in South Dallas or Houston's 6th Ward.

:D I can see it now.........standing in front of South Oak Cliff High School announcing my candidacy (for those that do not know, that is a well-known high school is the southern part of Dallas)........people have been waiting for me for hours, then I step up to the podium to give a speech AND they notice my skin color is a bit different from what they are used too. NO WAY they would vote for me..........lost before even starting the race.

Seriously, the two issues I pointed out are absolutely critical to ending poverty and improving the quality of life worldwide. They are never discussed in the mainstream mass media. They are never discussed by politicians. Some academics and UN officials do discuss both issues, but it never reaches the public.

Why? Total censorship and control of the mainstream mass media by the corporate-political-military ruling elites of the world that want the status quo to be maintained...........another issue to discuss. The mainstream mass media, higher education, and even the Church are simply tools to divert the masses away from the critical issues.

[geriatrickid]

DAILY COST OF FEEDING A DAIRY COW

In order to provide milk, butter and cheese for hungry Americans, dairy farmers in the USA spend an average of $4.13 per cow per day on feed.

ABOUT THREE BILLION PEOPLE ON PLANET EARTH (ROUGHLY 50 PERCENT OF HUMANITY) LIVE ON LESS THAN TWO DOLLARS PER DAY, source 1 LESS THAN HALF OF WHAT WE SPEND ON A COW 1.3 billion people live on less than one dollar per day3 billion live on less than two dollars per dayIS THIS PROGRESS?

As a vegan, it pains me to do this, but your cost analysis is prejudiced and inaccurate.

The feed given to cattle in North America is usually grown specifically for feed and is mostly unfit for human consumption. Most cattle is range fed and only receives grain at the feedlot prior to slaughter or as a supplement to the diet. The costs associated with the feed is actually for human labour and transportion costs. It would be more expensive to ship bales of hay and mottled grain to africa. I don't know if starving africans would appreciate shipments of corn which isn't the greatest source of human nutrition or would like to chew on some hay.

Cattle ranching is certainly less environmentally damaging than is hog farming. Yet, the UN didn't want to alienate those nations where hogs are the primary animal protein. It is easier to bash the USA. However, the advanced logistics methods and presence of prime range land in the USA allows for cattle farming. The problem with food supply in 3rd world countries, isn't the amount of food, but the waste that occurs due to poor warehousing and inadequate logistics. It is up to those countries to run themselves, not the USA. (And no I am not an American.)

[JR Texas]

DAILY COST OF FEEDING A DAIRY COW

In order to provide milk, butter and cheese for hungry Americans, dairy farmers in the USA spend an average of $4.13 per cow per day on feed.

ABOUT THREE BILLION PEOPLE ON PLANET EARTH (ROUGHLY 50 PERCENT OF HUMANITY) LIVE ON LESS THAN TWO DOLLARS PER DAY, source 1 LESS THAN HALF OF WHAT WE SPEND ON A COW 1.3 billion people live on less than one dollar per day3 billion live on less than two dollars per dayIS THIS PROGRESS?

As a vegan, it pains me to do this, but your cost analysis is prejudiced and inaccurate.

The feed given to cattle in North America is usually grown specifically for feed and is mostly unfit for human consumption. Most cattle is range fed and only receives grain at the feedlot prior to slaughter or as a supplement to the diet. The costs associated with the feed is actually for human labour and transportion costs. It would be more expensive to ship bales of hay and mottled grain to africa. I don't know if starving africans would appreciate shipments of corn which isn't the greatest source of human nutrition or would like to chew on some hay.

Cattle ranching is certainly less environmentally damaging than is hog farming. Yet, the UN didn't want to alienate those nations where hogs are the primary animal protein. It is easier to bash the USA. However, the advanced logistics methods and presence of prime range land in the USA allows for cattle farming. The problem with food supply in 3rd world countries, isn't the amount of food, but the waste that occurs due to poor warehousing and inadequate logistics. It is up to those countries to run themselves, not the USA. (And no I am not an American.)

Thanks for the input. Perhaps I should reword it to make sure that people know it refers to the cost of feed only........not labor, not electricity, not taxes on the land, etc. Feel free to produce a better estimate. The cost of feed comes from US sources..........the poverty data come from UN sources. I think it is important to put poverty in perspective.

[samran]

By the way, here is something I did on poverty that might be interesting to some (figures come from UN sources and are already corrected):

DAILY COST OF FEEDING A DAIRY COW

In order to provide milk, butter and cheese for hungry Americans, dairy farmers in the USA spend an average of $4.13 per cow per day on feed.

(data from 2006, http://www.das.psu.edu/user/dairy/newslett...cfm?newsID=842)

ABOUT THREE BILLION PEOPLE ON PLANET EARTH (ROUGHLY 50 PERCENT OF HUMANITY) LIVE ON LESS THAN TWO DOLLARS PER DAY, source 1

LESS THAN HALF OF WHAT WE SPEND ON A COW

1.3 billion people live on less than one dollar per day

3 billion live on less than two dollars per day

IS THIS PROGRESS?

Spoken like a true member of the "stop the world - I want to get off" brigade usually present in the out of touch academic ivory towers (and I include 95% of the UN here, with their diplomatic immunity, tax free existence and very fat pay cheques - starting salary US$60K tax free- who sit in their aircon offices all day and write reports that no one reads except the loony left).

Anyway, here is an alternate view

http://www.smh.com.au/news/business/trade-...ge#contentSwap1

My personal view of the OP. Am I worried about poverty in Thailand? Yes and no. It concerns me, but as a country, after visiting it nigh on 4 decades (ie all my life) has come leaps and bounds so that there is a greater wealth available to all Thai's. Sure it hasn't reached every section of society yet, by the Thailand of 2007 is alot more equitable and fair than it was in in 1970. It has acheived this by opening its borders, meeting the world head on and providing opportunities that can only come when jobs are abundant from investment and engagement with the world. I've seen this with my own eyes and I believe it will continue to be the case.

[geriatrickid]

BTW JR, I apologize if my post reads as snotty. I forget that you can't see my ugly face when I type so you don't see the smile, cuz I do understand your point. I gotta remember that this isn't a peer review exercise, just opinions and personal comments. Again, sorry if it read as rude.

[lannarebirth]

Except for some localities in China, I've never seen anywhere on earth where poverty was diappearing faster than in some East and Southeast Asian countries. It if happened any faster thre would be such huge societal dislocations that the result, I'm afraid, would be civil wars. It never seems fast enough, and it's easy to point to areas needing improvement, but if you've been here, or been coming here for any length of time, you'll have seen huge improvements in the standard of living, for many millions of people. Someof those improvements have come from caring foreigners taking an interest in their local communities, and I would encourage anyone who can, to participate in that way.

[blizzard]

to mr madrid, there are a lot more fat old thai men who cavort with young thai gurls. they just dont stand out in public, they look more like father daughter going for a stroll........lol.

farangs just copying what thai men do.

[canadiangirl]

To be honest, I don't know what to think of the poverty in Thailand.

At first, it shocked me and mad me feel sad (I know it's not as bad as some places, but it was my first encounter with a country outside of the first world), then it became commonplace to me, the longer I stayed. To some extent, I enjoyed feeling rich in a country of poor people, no matter how horrible it sounds -- and I think deep in the heart of many farang lurks the same feeling, if we would only admit it to ourselves. It's like being safe in a warm house in a stormy winter day, and seeing the snow fall outside -- we feel a little bit warmer inside by knowing that we don't have to be out there. But I try to not let this feeling affect how I treat people and how I behave.

Now I don't know what to think of it anymore. The West is full of well-meaning, guilty-feeling people with good intentions, who flood African markets with food donations -- making it impossible for local farmers to sell crops -- and plants trees on "plant a tree" day -- which turn out to be non-indigenous, and ###### up the local ecosystem. But I also don't want to a predator, an exploiter who doesn't give a shit about the poverty around her and sees Thailand as my personal playground. There must be a middle ground somewhere.

I once read something that went:

When we are young, and first encounter the suffering of the world, we cry and we cry, and we do not understand.

Some people never stop crying.

Some people stop crying, and harden their hearts.

It's only when the eye has gone dry, but the heart has remained tender, that we really become human.

Edited September 16, 2007 by canadiangirl

[wilko]

Except for some localities in China, I've never seen anywhere on earth where poverty was diappearing faster than in some East and Southeast Asian countries. It if happened any faster thre would be such huge societal dislocations that the result, I'm afraid, would be civil wars. It never seems fast enough, and it's easy to point to areas needing improvement, but if you've been here, or been coming here for any length of time, you'll have seen huge improvements in the standard of living, for many millions of people. Someof those improvements have come from caring foreigners taking an interest in their local communities, and I would encourage anyone who can, to participate in that way.

I hope your analysis keeps you happy but it's way of the reality......the gap between rich and poor is ever widening...and in a country that is at present a military dictatorship and in the future will be little more than a fragile democracy, that is a recipe for civil unrest

[samran]

Except for some localities in China, I've never seen anywhere on earth where poverty was diappearing faster than in some East and Southeast Asian countries. It if happened any faster thre would be such huge societal dislocations that the result, I'm afraid, would be civil wars. It never seems fast enough, and it's easy to point to areas needing improvement, but if you've been here, or been coming here for any length of time, you'll have seen huge improvements in the standard of living, for many millions of people. Someof those improvements have come from caring foreigners taking an interest in their local communities, and I would encourage anyone who can, to participate in that way.

I hope your analysis keeps you happy but it's way of the reality......the gap between rich and poor is ever widening...and in a country that is at present a military dictatorship and in the future will be little more than a fragile democracy, that is a recipe for civil unrest

Sure the rich now are probably much richer than they were 25 years ago, and the poorest of the poor, only slighly better off. I don't think there is any proof to prove your contention however if you look at the general wealth and wellbeing for the average Thai.

But I think you'll see that equity in thailand has increased in that more people are in real and absolute terms better off. Suggest you read the Ross Gittens article I reference earlier. Asia, is doing extremely well on many meausres. Even dicatorships like China, VN, and...singapore.

[B Fuddled]

It's the fat-cat politicians and society's MooHams and the like who have the boot against the majority of Thai's throats. Many Westerners are actually easing the pressure.

[Naam]

As a vegan, it pains me to do this...

who or what is a "vegan" pray tell?

[lannarebirth]

Except for some localities in China, I've never seen anywhere on earth where poverty was diappearing faster than in some East and Southeast Asian countries. It if happened any faster thre would be such huge societal dislocations that the result, I'm afraid, would be civil wars. It never seems fast enough, and it's easy to point to areas needing improvement, but if you've been here, or been coming here for any length of time, you'll have seen huge improvements in the standard of living, for many millions of people. Someof those improvements have come from caring foreigners taking an interest in their local communities, and I would encourage anyone who can, to participate in that way.

I hope your analysis keeps you happy but it's way of the reality......the gap between rich and poor is ever widening...and in a country that is at present a military dictatorship and in the future will be little more than a fragile democracy, that is a recipe for civil unrest

I can't dispute that's a possiblility, but I would suggest you're looking at the extremes. The change comes in the middle. Surely, you could not have failed to notice that Thailands middle class is everexpanding. Rich people never pay the bill. They didn't in the country you come from, nor the one I come from. It is the middle class that allows for social change. As it grows, so too, will the society become more egalitarian.

[wilko]

Except for some localities in China, I've never seen anywhere on earth where poverty was diappearing faster than in some East and Southeast Asian countries. It if happened any faster thre would be such huge societal dislocations that the result, I'm afraid, would be civil wars. It never seems fast enough, and it's easy to point to areas needing improvement, but if you've been here, or been coming here for any length of time, you'll have seen huge improvements in the standard of living, for many millions of people. Someof those improvements have come from caring foreigners taking an interest in their local communities, and I would encourage anyone who can, to participate in that way.

I hope your analysis keeps you happy but it's way of the reality......the gap between rich and poor is ever widening...and in a country that is at present a military dictatorship and in the future will be little more than a fragile democracy, that is a recipe for civil unrest

Sure the rich now are probably much richer than they were 25 years ago, and the poorest of the poor, only slighly better off. I don't think there is any proof to prove your contention however if you look at the general wealth and wellbeing for the average Thai.

But I think you'll see that equity in thailand has increased in that more people are in real and absolute terms better off. Suggest you read the Ross Gittens article I reference earlier. Asia, is doing extremely well on many meausres. Even dicatorships like China, VN, and...singapore.

I think you should broaden your reading-----there is ample evidence that dictatorships and other forms of draconian govt do not work economically.

you'll be talking about trickle-down next!