Flight OG269: At Least 88 Bodies Found At Phuket Airport Crash Site

[cdnvic]

When did I ever mention 'a jetliner exploding like a bomb'? Are you trying to say that there are no secondary explosions?

Not that would endanger rescue vehicles.

[TAWP]

When did I ever mention 'a jetliner exploding like a bomb'? Are you trying to say that there are no secondary explosions?

What is it you are trying to say? Secondary explosions of what? Are you just rambling to cover your base that 45 minutes is an ok time?

Did you watch the clip with the Chinese aircraft burning in Japan?

[chrislarsson]

1. This piece of information was released by the Thai authorities. Why would they do that if they are doing everything to cover the accident up? Besides a windshear alert system is not an international aviation standard requirement.

2. I thought most runways were not grooved, although most major ones are. Suvarnabhumi is not, and neither was the one in Sao Paolo, which had a bad accident recently (an aircraft failed to stop on the runway causing almost 200 deaths in July). They will groove it now.

Anyway, how can this be the blame for an accident where a plane hit the run-way without landing gear?

3. If this is the case, and maybe it is, there will surely be a lot of cristism in media due to this in the next few weeks. So far there haven't been any critisism, but some praise:

'Martin Carpenter, a consular volunteer from the British community in Phuket, praised the response of the emergency services. "Since the tsunami, whenever disasters happen in Phuket they are very well prepared," he said.'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...7/wcrash117.xml

1. In all fairness, I didn't say they would cover anything up. I just don't think some crucial issues will be fully addressed. The pilot is a pretty convenient scapegoat at the moment, all the more so because he comes from a country with one of the worst safety records in the world.

2. True, this didn't effect this particular incident. But Phuket is a fairly major airport in a country that considers itself to be the aviation hub of Asia. The airport in Sao Paolo was repeatedly criticized prior to the crash for being a dangerous place to land during poor weather, so I'm not sure why you mentioned it.

Even if something didn't directly contribute to the crash, an incident such as this should be a pretty strong incentive to improve safety wherever possible.

How can i disagee that safety should be improved wherever possible. And of course if Thailand sets the bar for air safety higher than in for instance the US and Europe that is a good thing. But it's hardly fair to point fingers if they don't. In your 3-point list for why Phuket Airport should be held responsible, number 1 and 2 are not required by international regulations. Number 3. regarding the emergency response, is still an unknown.

[colte]

I note with interest comments made on the response of the emergency services and authorities to this tragic accident.

I am a former trainer in emergency response for an international aviation organisation with over 30 years experience and I am very familiar with the international standards and best practices of this complex issue.

The fact that there was a 'successful' exercise a week before the event may well have been of some benefit to some areas of the accident response. However such an exercise may not include every aspect of a real disaster.

I sincerely hope there will be a full debriefing and investigation into the response in Phuket, not to blame individuals for any shortcomings, but to learn how things can be improved.

The video taken by the survivor does not show any presence yet of emergency vehicles at the site. This is crucial evidence that the investigation into the emergency response must consider.

International standards for emergency response require that a triage system is used at the accident site to ensure the most critically injured survivors get priority medical attention. As far as the time taken for transportation of the survivors from the site is concerned, we must bear in mind that in many cases people cannot accurately assess how long they have been waiting. There should be time-line logs kept of all actions taken by emergency services, hospitals, etc which will assist the investigation into the response.

A lot of what happened in response to this accident was in line with the required international standards, but evidently not everything.

It was certainly not a 'third-world' emergency response in my opinion, but as in every accident, some things did not work perfectly.

We cannot turn back the clock, so now the important thing is to carefully and thoroughly investigate and assess what did go well and what needs to be improved. The lessons should be learned not only for Phuket but for all Thai airports.

Ideally the eventual findings and recommendations of the report should also be circulated to airport operators and regulators worldwide in order that all can review against their own emergency plans.

[NBT TV Phuket]

MiniVDO: The French Minister of State attached to the Minister of Foreign Affairs paid homage to the Phuket air crash victims.

To see or download mini-video, go to http://www.thaisnews.com/news_detail.php?newsid=214806

The French Minister of State attached to the Minister of Foreign Affairs Miss Rama Yade who is also responsible for Foreign Affairs and Human Rights made a trip to Phuket International Airport, and talked to Royal Thai Police Chief of Forensic Science Office Police Lt. General Amporn Jarujinda on the progress of the victims’ identifications. The Thai police told her that (at least) seven French nationals were reported on board and six killed. Miss Rama Yade then asked whether the identification process could be speeded up, while the Thai police told her yes as long as the necessary evidence is provided by the families, as the procedure needs to be carried out carefully to prevent any misidentification.

After that the French Minister went on to pay respects to the deceased at the refrigerated container beside the end of the runway.

MiniVDO: An injured Australian passenger thanked the injured Thai passenger who saved his life.

To see or download mini-video, go to http://www.thaisnews.com/news_detail.php?newsid=214805

Paiboon Paphan, a Thai survivor from the plane crash, whose spine was injured, was brought on a wheelchair to visit an Australian survivor Mr Robert Boreland who he saved after the crash. Being treated at the Bangkok Phuket Hospital Robert suffered broken bones and burns, but he requested to see Paiboon to thank Paiboon for saving his life. After the crash caused fire flames, Paiboon pulled Robert out of the plane wreckage. At that time Robert only knew it was a man in yellow. Paiboon said he was proud to help save someone’s life and that it has been reported worldwide that a man in yellow saved a foreign tourist. He said he wore yellow in honor of His Majesty the King of Thailand.

MiniVDO: Families of those who died in the crash received 100,000 baht cheques for funeral arrangements.

To see or download mini-video, go to http://www.thaisnews.com/news_detail.php?newsid=214804

Yesterday was the first day that the One-Two-Go Airline started to pay 100,000 baht funds for families of those who were killed in the plane crash. At least nine families have collected the aid in Phuket with 11 in Bangkok. Families can bring the death certificate and their ID cards to show at the Phuket airport office and the office in Bangkok. Meanwhile the Phuket Vice Governor Worapote Ratasrima held a meeting with the command centre about the air crash victims’ aid. He asked the company to speed up the compensation process as some families started to complain to authorities. The airline executive explained that the 100,000 baht payments can proceed while the compensation for the victims’ families still cannot be stated yet as the company is still negotiating with the British insurance company. The Phuket Vice Governor also ordered a set up of committee to ensure bodies are correctly handed over to families to prevent any problems.

MiniVDO: Patong Hotel Association members prepare accommodation for victims’ families free of charge.

To see or download mini-video, go to http://www.thaisnews.com/news_detail.php?newsid=214803

Patong Hotel Association member hotels reflect their help and sympathy to families of passengers of the Phuket plane crash by offering free accommodation for them during 17 – 23 September 2007. The association has 33 hotel members and they have submitted the lists of hotels to the One–Two-Go Airline for them to check and deal with families. The hotel list includes Phuket Graceland Resort and Spa, Coconut Village, Royal Paradise, Royal Palm, and Ban Bua Resort. One of the association members, the Royal Palm Hotel Resident Manager Chawaphon Thongpatumphan said the hotel has reserved five rooms with breakfast for the families. Asked if the situation would affect bookings for the high season, the local hotelier said he believed it would not.

Interview part 2; Director of Phuket International Airport, Squadron Leader Pornchai Aua-Aree

To see or download mini-video, go to http://www.thaisnews.com/news_detail.php?newsid=214802

After things cooled down, we had an opportunity to talk to the Director of Phuket International Airport, Squadron Leader Pornchai Aua-Aree as he summed up the rescue and recovery efforts over the last few days and thanked all the officials and volunteers for their help: (part1 shown yesterday ) ......... Contact: 07 632 7230-7 [email protected]

MiniVDO: Families of plane crash victims held religious ceremonies

To see or download mini-video, go to http://www.thaisnews.com/news_detail.php?newsid=214801

As several Phuket head officials were killed in the Sunday crash we have listed the venues for their religious ceremony as follows. The body of Phuket’s Finance Office chief Wantana Meesang was kept for religious ceremony at Wichit Sangkaram in town before her family moved the body for ceremony and cremation at Chonprathan Rangsarit in Nontha Buri province. Meanwhile other head officials’ bodies are also being prepared for religious ceremonies. The judge from Phuket Provincial Court Katha Kanjanasutha is being held at Mongkol Nimitr temple in Phuket, while the funeral for a judge of Phang-Nga court Chakart Kulvanit is being conducted at Wat Mai Senarangsan in Thakuapa district of Phang-Nga. The late chief of the Phuket Internal Trade Office Sompotch Sangkhapong’s body is now under a ritual ceremony at Chonpratharn Rangsarit in Nontha Buri, while the acting director of Phang Nga’s Mitigation office Apichai Prompornpitakkul is at Sri Mahathart temple in Bangkok.

[Jingjok]

I didn't say they pretended to be heroes, but that they lost an opportunity to be. Shame? It's up to them if they feel shame - it depends on what sort of person they each think they are and whether they each lived up to their own expectations.

I think this is the stupidest post that I have ever read! "I've survived an air crash, I'm OK but I'll go back into the inferno and be a hero!" What utter poppycock! I would not ask you what you would do...

Absolutely agree. Has whoever originally dared to criticize the behavior of survivors, who had just left a multiple-fatality plane crash for God's sake, ever been in such a situation? This was not some gung-ho American movie: this was real. Rational thought evaporates after such a thing.

How dare anyone judge or criticize whilst sitting in front of their computer in air-conditioned comfort. (As, of course, I am.)

...but if you are ever in a situation like that I only wish for one thing for you - that someone behind you had a clean pair of underpants for you and a roll of toilet paper!

An old army truism: 'Adrenaline is brown' (20 years EOD)

[John K]

what is it that causes these fires ?

is it the fuel spraying around ? , is the emergency oxygen supply in the cabins that explode?, are the seat covers etc. inflammable and toxic ?

and on the video of the china plane on fire , there did seem to be a sizeable explosion.

The explosion was almost entirely contained within the radius of the aircraft. It's kerosene, not gasoline, and it's liquid, not aerosol.

From what I Have seen on the discovery channel is the fuel turns to a mist and ignites causing a fireball. What they have discovered is they can put a fuel additive in that keeps the fuel from misting. I have not looked at this crash but seeing as a wing was ripped off, and the tanks are in the wing...

[cdnvic]

what is it that causes these fires ?

is it the fuel spraying around ? , is the emergency oxygen supply in the cabins that explode?, are the seat covers etc. inflammable and toxic ?

and on the video of the china plane on fire , there did seem to be a sizeable explosion.

The explosion was almost entirely contained within the radius of the aircraft. It's kerosene, not gasoline, and it's liquid, not aerosol.

From what I Have seen on the discovery channel is the fuel turns to a mist and ignites causing a fireball. What they have discovered is they can put a fuel additive in that keeps the fuel from misting. I have not looked at this crash but seeing as a wing was ripped off, and the tanks are in the wing...

...and almost empty as the plane was already at it's destination.

[Scott]

Is there a list somewhere of the names and nationalities of the deceased and injured?

Sometime ago I saw (somewhere) a manifest of the passengers, but I haven't seen anything about where they were from or nationalities.

[Mid]

...and almost empty as the plane was already at it's destination.

budget airlines refuelling at Phuket ???

[mr_hippo]

...and almost empty as the plane was already at it's destination.

That shows me the extent of your 'knowledge'!

Thai 737-400 - HS-TDC - exolosion in empty fuel tank

Phillipines 737-300 - EI-BZG - exolosion in empty fuel tank

TWA 747-131 - N93119 - exolosion in empty fuel tank

[cdnvic]

...and almost empty as the plane was already at it's destination.

budget airlines refuelling at Phuket ???

If it had fuel to return to Bangkok (with minimal reserves) and a full load of passengers then they would probably be exceeding the max landing weight of the aircraft.

[taxexile]

i always thought that empty fuel tanks , due to the air / fuel vapour mix are more explosive ( i.e. easier to ignite) than a full tank.

[Mid]

If it had fuel to return to Bangkok (with minimal reserves) and a full load of passengers then they would probably be exceeding the max landing weight of the aircraft.

up front , I don't know , one way or the other

however the business model of quick turn around make me question Phuket refuelling ,

any pro's here ?

[cdnvic]

...and almost empty as the plane was already at it's destination.

That shows me the extent of your 'knowledge'!

Thai 737-400 - HS-TDC - exolosion in empty fuel tank

Phillipines 737-300 - EI-BZG - exolosion in empty fuel tank

TWA 747-131 - N93119 - exolosion in empty fuel tank

It's much greater than yours as the examples you cite prove. In neither of the first two incidents did the type of explosion that would have killed people in nearby rescue vehicles happen (not even one of those magic magnesium explosions you made up). The result was damage to the airframe itself with minimal impact on the surrounding area, this proven by photos. In the case of TWA 800 the probable cause (The NTSB never made a firm statement on the exact cause) was that a detonation in the centre fuel tank resulted in catastrophic airframe damage that led to disintegration. At 350kts that doesn't take much of a blast.

[colte]

If it had fuel to return to Bangkok (with minimal reserves) and a full load of passengers then they would probably be exceeding the max landing weight of the aircraft.

up front , I don't know , one way or the other

however the business model of quick turn around make me question Phuket refuelling ,

any pro's here ?

My experience as an aircraft despatcher / loadsheet agent does not specifically include the MD80 series, however I would doubt that having return flight fuel onboard for a sector as short as Phuket-Bangkok would overload the max landing weight. Airlines regularly carry additional fuel from airports where it is cheaper. The carrier I worked for had a calculation for every sector on the savings to be made by carrying extra fuel (including the cost of carrying the additional weight). The crew are also advised on how much extra fuel they can take without exceeding maximum take-off or maximum landing weights.

Refuelling can be undertaken during short turns too, but there are safety procedures that need to be followed. This is an area where many carriers (not just budget) are somewhat lax.

Hope this helps.

[Mid]

^

thanxs ,

it does , and we're getting to wards off topic anyhow .

[Jai Dee]

One-Two-Go compensated 27 plane crash victims

Officers of the One-Two-Go Airlines report that relatives of 27 dead Thai passengers in the air plane crash has traveled to receive a check of 100,000 baht each from the company.

The rest nine dead Thai passengers have yet been taken by their relatives. Meanwhile, no relatives of the foreign dead passengers have contacted the airline for compensation.

As for compensation from the airline’s insurance companies, the officers say the airline is negotiating with the insurance companies to raise compensation for the dead to up to five million baht. They also affirm the airline will assist the relatives who are not satisfied with the compensation.

41 dead foreign bodies are still kept at the airport, waiting to be identified by their relatives or embassy officials.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 20 September 2007

[John K]

There is a certain safety window that aircraft must have as far as fuel. It is measured in flight time and not liters. From memory they must have fuel to make it to an alternate airport and have time to remain aloft if there are delays there too. I can remember circling Atlanta Georgia for over an hour waiting for storms to pass. The flight was only from Daytona so they must allow for weather and other diversions.

As for what I saw on Discovery, it was a series of controlled remote controlled crashes of commercial aircraft. The wings were deliberately sheared off by pylons and the fuel ignited much the same as what happened here. The test was to find ways to reduce the fireball and they found that a congealing additive worked well. It made crashes like this more survivable.

Also consider the amount of fuel it takes to make a fireball. Simply one liter of fuel properly disbursed can create a 10 meter diameter fireball. I am sure there was much more than 1 liter in the tanks with this crash.

[A_Traveller]

Just a quick note to thank TV Channel 11 for replying and providing information re the status of the undercarriage of the plane.

Regards

Post Link

/edit Caps Lock strikes again//

[Jai Dee]

Airline seeks to boost insurance pay-out for victims of air crash

Embattled budget airline One-Two-Go is negotiating to raise the compensation payment to families of passengers killed in the Phuket plane crash from the initially agreed US$130,000 (Bt4.5 million) to $150,000.

Chief executive officer Khajit Hapnanont said: "Although the insurer initially agreed to pay $130,000 for each victim, we're not quite satisfied with the figure. We are negotiating to raise the compensation as high as possible.

"The insurers are sympathetic and on the discussion table are statistics from previous accidents like the one in Surat Thani. Then, each victim received $100,000 and the rate should be higher now."

A Thai Airways International flight crash-landed in Surat Thani nine years ago, killing a number of passengers.

One-Two-Go chairman Udom Tantiprasongchai insisted that all victims would be covered. While injured passengers' medical bills would be taken care of, the company would also consider additional compensation on a case-by-case basis.

"Every-body is concerned what One-Two-Go will do to restore confidence, but my priority now is to take care of the victims. If I have to sell everything to pay for this, I will," Udom said.

The initial compensation figures were released yesterday after a meeting between Khajit, Transport Minister Theera Haocharoen, Deputy Transport Minister Sansern Wongcha-um, Transport Ministry permanent secretary Chaisawat Kitti-pornpaibul and Civil Aviation Department director-general Chaisak Angsuwan.

Theera said at a press conference that the compensation figure was a result of One-Two-Go's negotiations with the insurer. He noted that for injured passengers, the airline would initially handle compensation for all medical bills as well as expenses that their relatives shouldered while travelling to Phuket.

Dow Jones Newswires reported from Frankfurt that reinsurance company Munich Re AG said the plane crash would result in a damage claim for the reinsurer, but that it was too early to give a precise estimate.

"In general, our exposure to such claims amounts to several millions of euros," a Munich Re spokesman said, adding that Munich Re expects the claim "to be fully within our budget for such damage claims".

Estimates for potential damage claims of reinsurer Hannover Re and primary insurer Allianz SE related to the plane crash were not yet available.

Khajit insisted that the condition of the airline's fleet and pilots was 100 per cent ready. He noted that although the crashed aircraft had been in service for more than 20 years, it had been regularly maintained. Pilots also received ample rest between flights, as required.

At present, One-Two-Go operates seven aircraft.

Source: The Nation - 20 September 2007

[Jai Dee]

One-Two-Go insurer arrives in Phuket

Representatives from the UK based-underwriter Penloyd, whom One-Two-Go airlines have made insurance with, arrived in Phuket from Singapore on Thursday to discuss compensation with relatives of the dead victims from the Sunday's crash.

The airline was insured with the underwriters for maximum compensation of US$300 million (about 10.2 billion baht) for each accident.

One-Two-Go reportedly seeks at least US$150,000 (about 5.1 million baht) for each dead victim.

More from the Bangkok Post here.

[Farma]

I’ve just been informed a guy I’ve known for years and his wife were on the flight. They didn’t make it out.

Here’s a beer for you Aggie. May you both rest in peace.

[macduff]

But the pilot has to base his decisions on accurate information. He may also believe that the information comes from up-to-date equipment which is operating.

Apparently scott according to the authorities the up to date equipment was not functioning 100%. If the pilot had already aborted one landing he would have found out himself about the equipment and was going in for a second attempt, he would have known that the limited information was not enough for him to land the first time, and that wind shear made him change his mind as i think this could be the case

[Mid]

If the pilot had already aborted one landing he would have found out himself about the equipment

there's nothing there ...........................

except further speculation .

good question would be ,

was the faulty equipment noted in the current Notices to Aviators ???

[macduff]

If the pilot had already aborted one landing he would have found out himself about the equipment

there's nothing there ...........................

except further speculation .

good question would be ,

was the faulty equipment noted in the current Notices to Aviators ???

And you think the thai authorities are going to tell the truth?

[Mid]

And you think the thai authorities are going to tell the truth?

[macduff]

And you think the thai authorities are going to tell the truth?

My thoughts exactly

[Mid]

Flight data analysis done this month

BREAKING NEWS

Analysis of the flight data recorders will be finished at the end of this month and the cause of the air crash at Phuket International Airport will be concluded.

After a meeting of the committee investigating air accidents in the kingdom on Thursday, Flight Safety Standards Bureau director Wutthichai Singmanee said that the investigators collected all information about the weather, and the aircraft as well as data from the control tower.

Aviation specialists from the US are also helping analyse the data.

However, Mr. Wuttichai said that the cause of the accident will be concluded with the flight data recorders assessment at the end of the month.

snip

bangkokpost.com

[Mid]

from the link above ,

Mr. Udom also apologised to the families of the dead for whatever errors or circumstances on the day when accident happened.

He added that the airlines has reduced domestic flights from 40 trips a day to 10 trips to allow its crews and workers to have additional holidays.

The morale of all One-Two-Go employees is high