Informal Education

[visionary]

I have read alot about organisations that offer informal education in and around Mae Sai. I am wondering what they mean my informal. Does the govenment and academic community recognize their education efforts ? Can graduates of informal schools obtain recognition of their efforts that allows them to progress to higher education ?

[sceadugenga]

I would assume that informal education would be offered by private organisations looking at improving students English skills. A Christian group offers this to children in my village on weekends.

I've heard of others who offer basic reading and writing classes to underprivileged people.

Entry to higher education would be totally dependent on the ability of the student to pass the entry exam for the relevant institution. I would expect that University/college entry would be only be allowed for those who have passed the Thailand Education Department matriculation or final year High School exam.

[visionary]

I wonder if very many of the informally educated move on to university level education. I would think that once someone was proficient in english they could educate themselves from that point on. Are english language educational materials readily available? Is english proficiency an advantage in University ? I assume that there is more english higher education material available than Thai . Given that not all citizens of Thailand are ethnically Thai it only makes sense to teach english as a second language to a non Thai if english will open more doors.

I recently met a Sudanese man that was informally educated in a rural village. When the local teachers could not teach him anymore he walked to a nearby city learned all he could moved on some more etc until he reached Egypt. There he learned Arabic and made a fortune translating Arabic newspaper articles into English for republishing. He says translating English was what paid the bills between life in the home village and earning degrees in Egypt. I think that a case like his would be extremely rare .

[sceadugenga]

I think the Thais are quite happy with their own language, they see English more as a means of conducting business with English speakers.

There seems little need for self education amongst Thai citizens, in my village all the children; Thai, Akha, Lisu, Lahu etc attend the local schools.

I think you picture Thailand as a lot more "Third world" than it actually is. The people with problems here are usually refugees from Burma and the Lao PDR who don't have ID cards. A lot live in camps and I assume that some, if not all, don't have access to the Thai health and education system.

I'm only surmising here, I'm sure there are a lot more people on this forum with better local knowledge of the "stateless" people than me.

[tayto]

This website gives some information about Non Formal education in Thailand.

http://www.nfe.go.th/english/frontend/activities.php

I can highly reccommend the branch in Chiang Rai, before you come to the post office and also near the YMCA language centre.

[visionary]

I think the Thais are quite happy with their own language, they see English more as a means of conducting business with English speakers.

There seems little need for self education amongst Thai citizens, in my village all the children; Thai, Akha, Lisu, Lahu etc attend the local schools.

I think you picture Thailand as a lot more "Third world" than it actually is. The people with problems here are usually refugees from Burma and the Lao PDR who don't have ID cards. A lot live in camps and I assume that some, if not all, don't have access to the Thai health and education system.

I'm only surmising here, I'm sure there are a lot more people on this forum with better local knowledge of the "stateless" people than me.

I am currently working as a volunteer with a group of 100 Thai refugees recently arrived in Canada. Their english skills are not yet adequate for conversation. Officially they are Burmese refugees fleeing the Junta but they are in fact Thai refugees suffering under severe oppression from what I hear from local aid workers . Last week I sat among a group that was asked to introduce themselves, identify their homeland and describe their favorite subject in school. Every single one of them called themselves Thai. When I asked their main host here why they are calling themselves Thai instead of Burman he said they are born in Thailand from families originating in Burma. I believe that if they are born in Thailand they are Thai. I have also been told that rural farmers from their cross border cultures that are not of Burman descent cannot obtain Thai documentation despite a long history in Thailand. Lack of documentation means denial of health and education benefits.

The worst aspect of these Thai born refugees is that apparently there are international aid agencies trying to provide desperately needed medical attention to them but the Thai government allegedly won't allow it.My understanding of their plight is based on third hand information locally, however as I read this forum and the websites of multimational aid groups they verify what I have heard locally. I can understand a Nation rising out of colonialism denying universal services to unpopular minorities but I cannot understand the Thai government banning medical and educational aid from third party groups.

[tayto]

Add to that the treatment of the Laos refugees in Thailand.

Human rights in Thailand means Thai first and everybody else is last.

[mcgriffith]

This is certainly a very problematic issue, and something that concerns not only us farang, but a lot of Thai nationals as well.

The positive thing, is that this issue of nationality (and aid) for these groups is something that is actively discussed and debated here in Thailand.

I have read myriad Op-Ed pieces in the Post and Nation on this topic. It is not dissimilar to the debate in the US regarding social benefits for aliens who are ermmmmm.....not entirely legal as far as immigrant status. The distinction is that in the US, if you are born there, even of illegal immigrant parents, you automatically have full citizenship. And there is a serious effort now to repeal this provision there, among some parties.

In macroeconomic terms (heartless as it sounds) I can understand why each different country in the world has completely different policies regarding people who are economic/political/whatever migrants, and the status of their children, born in that country.

Thailand, not to fault the country in any way, nor defend, nor anything....is next to: Burma, Laos, Cambodia and Malaysia (stating the obvious here). What would be the financial/social/political repercussions were Thailand to change these policies and laws? This is a developing country, still. It is certainly food for thought, I have the utmost respect for people who go out of their way to aid and assist these "stateless" people (even though I don't think they should be considered stateless).

Kudos to all of you who who are concerned about this, and who do good deeds to aid these people.

McG

[visionary]

One issue that is probably driving the harshness of Thai policy is fear that if treatment is too sweet the trickle of refugees may become a flood.

Documentation issues regarding aboriginal people that result in loss of access to medical care are not unique to Thailand.

As a result of not keeping in touch with Provincial health care here in Canada while I traveled between provinces my health care was suspended.When I went to reinstate it I was told I had to produce my birth certificate . I do not have a birth certificate and it will take between 6 months and 2 years to obtain one.That means I may not have health care for the next 2 years.

In addition , I lost my social insurance card about 30 years ago.Every time I apply for a replacement I am told that my information does not match the information provided by my mother on the original application therefore my applications are denied. My mother is a largely illiterate aboriginal women that left reservation life about 2 years before I was born. I have given up on trying to duplicate her original misspelling by trial and error.

Many disadvantaged Canadian and American aboriginals are unable to obtain assistance because they cannot prove their blood quantum or geaneology. I have known many Native people that have resolved that issue by moving from Canada to the US or vice versa under the Act of Resettlement. Based on the experience of others that have done that I could obtain a full set of American documents plus resettlement funding within 24 hours.I have no intention of doing that but I must admit that I have been tempted.

[sceadugenga]

One issue that is probably driving the harshness of Thai policy is fear that if treatment is too sweet the trickle of refugees may become a flood.

Documentation issues regarding aboriginal people that result in loss of access to medical care are not unique to Thailand.

As a result of not keeping in touch with Provincial health care here in Canada while I traveled between provinces my health care was suspended.When I went to reinstate it I was told I had to produce my birth certificate . I do not have a birth certificate and it will take between 6 months and 2 years to obtain one.That means I may not have health care for the next 2 years.

In addition , I lost my social insurance card about 30 years ago.Every time I apply for a replacement I am told that my information does not match the information provided by my mother on the original application therefore my applications are denied. My mother is a largely illiterate aboriginal women that left reservation life about 2 years before I was born. I have given up on trying to duplicate her original misspelling by trial and error.

Many disadvantaged Canadian and American aboriginals are unable to obtain assistance because they cannot prove their blood quantum or geaneology. I have known many Native people that have resolved that issue by moving from Canada to the US or vice versa under the Act of Resettlement. Based on the experience of others that have done that I could obtain a full set of American documents plus resettlement funding within 24 hours.I have no intention of doing that but I must admit that I have been tempted.

The Hills tribe people cannot be classed as aboriginal, they are quite recent arrivals on the scene in Thailand. In fact the majority of the tribes have the larger part of their population in other countries. The Thais see them as immigrants and often refuse to issue ID cards to second or third generation Thai tribes people on the grounds that they can't prove that they haven't recently entered the country illegally.

So you can see that the problem here is different to that of American, Canadian and Australian aboriginals. They aren't trying to reclaim land, more attempting to get the right to buy it.

Possibly, and I don't want to open this can of worms, they can be compared to illegal Mexican immigrants in the USA, they seek better lives and may be escaping persecution in their original countries.

[chownah]

I agree that the hilltribe people's situation is not like the native american people's situation...but there is one similarity....they both had their lands taken away from them because the customs for ownership of land were different from the ownership customs in the culture which now dominates...

Aside: If the hilltribes or native american peoples had had private ownership customs with documentation then perhaps they would still have some of their lands...but of course this is just fantasy and not worth much consideration.

Chownah

[chang35baht]

Just one thing that I find curious in your post visionary

If 100 Thais turned up in Canada calling themselves refugees:

1) How did they arrive in the country?

2) On what grounds are they being classified or are calling themselves fefugees?

3) Did the fly from Thailand to Canada?

4) Do they have som sort of documentation that persuaded the Can. Imm. that they were THAIS?

5) Is Thailand on some sort of list, UN or other, that lists them as an oppressive regime

Surely refugees are people seeking refuge from a country/ regime where they feel they are being oppressed or their lives were in danger. Running away from aid workers IMHO does not qualify as obtaining refugee status.

Did they claim asylum on arrival in Canada? Or are they just a bunch of people who have managed to fool the authorities into taking them in, thus enabling them to eventually get jobs etc.

Please don`t think that I am not aware of the plight of the hilltribe peoples in Thailand, In fact I sympathise with them greatly. I just find the 100 thais turning up in Canada and being granted entry on this basis very confusing

Just curious, that`s all!!

Edited September 23, 2007 by chang35baht