Need Translation Help: Two Words

[BKKGuitar]

Can you Thai gurus give an assist on this (i only have thai-eng dictionary):

"email" - is a thai cognate used, or is the english term substituted?

"perfect" - as in perfect Thai, i.e. free of errors or imperfections

Thank you!

[sutnyod]

"perfect" - as in perfect Thai, i.e. free of errors or imperfections

sutnyod kong sutnyod

[Bpraim1]

Perfect = บริบูรณ์

Email= จดหมายอิเล็กทรอนิกส์ or more formal can use =

[Bpraim1]

Email = ไปรษณีย์อิเล็กทรอนิกส์

[taxexile]

there is a thai word for e-mail , but i cant recall it , but the english word is usually used.

for 'perfect thai' , if you are talking about speaking then i would use the words พูดคล่อง, puut (f)kloong (f), which means to speak fluently.

other words words for perfect from the lexitron dictionary

perfect (1) - ADJ. - สมบูรณ์แบบ Syn. :: complete; faultless; unblemished; flawless

perfect (2) - ADJ. - ถูกต้อง Syn. :: accurate; exact; letter-perfect

perfect (3) - ADJ. - บริสุทธิ์

Syn. :: pure; absolute; unequivocal; unmixed

perfect (4) - N. - กาลสมบูรณ์ (ทางไวยากรณ์)

perfect (5) - ADJ. - เหมาะสม Syn. :: fit; appropriate

perfect (6) - VT. - ทำให้สมบูรณ์ Syn. :: complete; make perfect; improve; refine

perfect (7) - ADJ. - เชี่ยวชาญ

Syn. :: expert; proficient

[katana]

As taxexile says, colloquially I usually see email อีเมล์ used.

[Richard W]

็How about colloquial เพอร์เฟกต์? I think it's pronounced [ML]phoe [H]fek.

[BKKGuitar]

็How about colloquial เพอร์เฟกต์? I think it's pronounced [ML]phoe [H]fek.

These replies are great--thank you very much!

I have a feeling เพอร์เฟกต์ and อีเมล์ might be what i want. I meant "perfect" as in a perfect day, or perfect Thai, or a perfect smile, something flawless/beautiful in the eyes of the beholder... something like that. I had been considering ถูกต้อง

[DavidHouston]

็How about colloquial เพอร์เฟกต์? I think it's pronounced [ML]phoe [H]fek.

These replies are great--thank you very much!

I have a feeling เพอร์เฟกต์ and อีเมล์ might be what i want. I meant "perfect" as in a perfect day, or perfect Thai, or a perfect smile, something flawless/beautiful in the eyes of the beholder... something like that. I had been considering ถูกต้อง

I hear the word "ดีเด่น" [dee dèn] used in the context you are describing. Domnern-Satienpong define this term as "outstanding." Have any of you seen this used in the context in which Guitar contemplates?

[yoot]

็How about colloquial เพอร์เฟกต์? I think it's pronounced [ML]phoe [H]fek.

Thai people pronounce it as [M]per [L[fek.

[DavidHouston]

็How about colloquial เพอร์เฟกต์? I think it's pronounced [ML]phoe [H]fek.

Thai people pronounce it as [M]per [L[fek.

Is this a difference in pronounciation or a difference is transcription?

[mangkorn]

Not sure if it would work for the OP, but สมบูรณ์แบบ seems one of the best ways to describe the concept of perfection. It is fairly common to hear ไม่มีใครสมบูรณ์แบบ - "nobody's perfect."

As for the superlatives, there are many, but สุดยอด seems to be one of the most commonly heard these days.

[taxexile]

hear the word "ดีเด่น" [dee dèn] used in the context you are describing. Domnern-Satienpong define this term as "outstanding." Have any of you seen this used in the context in which Guitar contemplates?

i've also heard it used , as exceptional or outstanding , (also "dor den" , but i cant find that in any dictionary , maybe its slang or i misheard it.)

[DavidHouston]

hear the word "ดีเด่น" [dee dèn] used in the context you are describing. Domnern-Satienpong define this term as "outstanding." Have any of you seen this used in the context in which Guitar contemplates?

i've also heard it used , as exceptional or outstanding , (also "dor den" , but i cant find that in any dictionary , maybe its slang or i misheard it.)

You may be thinking of (from Lexitron) "โดดเด่น [dòht dèn] [ADJ] outstanding; remarkable; distinguished; splendid; notable; marked; prominent; striking Syn. สะดุดตา, เด่น

Def. เด่นมากกว่าสิ่งอื่น." "more excellent than anything else"

[taxexile]

You may be thinking of (from Lexitron) "โดดเด่น [dòht dèn] [ADJ] outstanding; remarkable; distinguished; splendid; notable; marked; prominent; striking Syn. สะดุดตา, เด่น

Def. เด่นมากกว่าสิ่งอื่น." "more excellent than anything else"

thats the one .

thanks.

[BKKGuitar]

็How about colloquial เพอร์เฟกต์? I think it's pronounced [ML]phoe [H]fek.

Thai people pronounce it as [M]per [L[fek.

Is this a difference in pronounciation or a difference is transcription?

I'd be surprised if that were a low tone, it must be high: low class consonant + dead short ending. also it just sounds right with a high tone.

[yoot]

็How about colloquial เพอร์เฟกต์? I think it's pronounced [ML]phoe [H]fek.

Thai people pronounce it as [M]per [L[fek.

Is this a difference in pronounciation or a difference is transcription?

The difference is tone sound on the second syllable. If it's high tone it would sound like when Thais pronounce the word 'fake'. This is just my opinion as for being a Thai people and how Thai people pronounce English words in Thai spoken language.

For the first syllable, I might use a difference transcription but I won't argue on it.

[yoot]

็How about colloquial เพอร์เฟกต์? I think it's pronounced [ML]phoe [H]fek.

Thai people pronounce it as [M]per [L[fek.

Is this a difference in pronounciation or a difference is transcription?

I'd be surprised if that were a low tone, it must be high: low class consonant + dead short ending. also it just sounds right with a high tone.

The point is Thai people don't read English borrowed word as it's written. Because one of the rule to transliterate English word to Thai is "don't put tone mark on it unless it might mix up with other words". So, the rule you mentioned can't apply with borrowed word.

Take "computer" as example. คอมพิวเตอร์ - คอม(Mid) พิว(Mid or High sometimes) เต้อ(Falling).

Edited September 22, 2007 by yoot

[DavidHouston]

็How about colloquial เพอร์เฟกต์? I think it's pronounced [ML]phoe [H]fek.

Thai people pronounce it as [M]per [L[fek.

Is this a difference in pronounciation or a difference is transcription?

The difference is tone sound on the second syllable. If it's high tone it would sound like when Thais pronounce the word 'fake'. This is just my opinion as for being a Thai people and how Thai people pronounce English words in Thai spoken language.

For the first syllable, I might use a difference transcription but I won't argue on it.

How about a spelling of "เพอร์เฝ็กต์" ? My comment regarding transcription was with respect to the first syllable; sorry for the lack of clarity. I have also heard Thai people use the low tone. Alternatively, maybe the first syllable "per" invokes the "irregular tone rule"?

[yoot]

็How about colloquial เพอร์เฟกต์? I think it's pronounced [ML]phoe [H]fek.

Thai people pronounce it as [M]per [L[fek.

Is this a difference in pronounciation or a difference is transcription?

The difference is tone sound on the second syllable. If it's high tone it would sound like when Thais pronounce the word 'fake'. This is just my opinion as for being a Thai people and how Thai people pronounce English words in Thai spoken language.

For the first syllable, I might use a difference transcription but I won't argue on it.

How about a spelling of "เพอร์เฝ็กต์" ? My comment regarding transcription was with respect to the first syllable; sorry for the lack of clarity. I have also heard Thai people use the low tone. Alternatively, maybe the first syllable "per" invokes the "irregular tone rule"?

Actually this word is often written in Thai as "เพอร์เฟค". But if we transliterate it according to RID, "เพอร์เฟกต์" should be correct.

[Richard W]

How about a spelling of "เพอร์เฝ็กต์" ? My comment regarding transcription was with respect to the first syllable; sorry for the lack of clarity. I have also heard Thai people use the low tone. Alternatively, maybe the first syllable "per" invokes the "irregular tone rule"?

I could only get a total of 6 hits for the obvious variants with fo fa. เพอร์เฟก beats เพอร์เฟกต์ 8 to 1. เพอร์ฟิก gets only 2 hits.

As to [M]per v. [ML]phoe, the former has several problems:

• The consonant does not correct a deficiency in the RTGS, and misleads.
  
• The vowel symbol bears no relationship to the RTGS, nor does it correct a deficiency.
  
• The final 'r' could mislead those who speak English rhotically or are into minority languages, e.g. Northern Khmer
  
• It is not clear how vowel lengh is to be indicated - is there a rule that vowels in open syllables are long by default or that vowels of two characters are long by default?
  

The irregular tone rule has nothing to do with the tone of the second syllable, and is ruled out by the vowel symbol for the first syllable - it's not an unetymological sara a!

[BKKGuitar]

็How about colloquial เพอร์เฟกต์? I think it's pronounced [ML]phoe [H]fek.

Thai people pronounce it as [M]per [L[fek.

Is this a difference in pronounciation or a difference is transcription?

I'd be surprised if that were a low tone, it must be high: low class consonant + dead short ending. also it just sounds right with a high tone.

The point is Thai people don't read English borrowed word as it's written. Because one of the rule to transliterate English word to Thai is "don't put tone mark on it unless it might mix up with other words". So, the rule you mentioned can't apply with borrowed word.

Take "computer" as example. คอมพิวเตอร์ - คอม(Mid) พิว(Mid or High sometimes) เต้อ(Falling).

Khun Yoot, thank you for explaining about borrowed words. I'm still learning every day!