Execution Thai Style

[londonthai]

it's a spectacle not for the victim to be enjoyed but by the onlookers - that's why they are dancers, music and the ceremony

the same entertainment the romans had in a colosseum - more of a sport for some and a warning for the others

[kankaroo]

Why has the Asian methods of punishment / execution usually been the most brutal, cruel & masochistic ?

[garro]

Kankaroo said;

Why has the Asian methods of punishment / execution usually been the most brutal, cruel & masochistic ?

As opposed to the humane forms of execution that have been used in the west;

Hang, drawn and quartered

Guillotine

Hanging

Electric chair

Pottasium injection

All methods of execution are barbaric.

[londonthai]

you haven't heard much about british style executions carried out from the middle ages to 17th century.

there were more of a torture rather than an execution and lasted many hours

[Mozikillah]

Any beheading execution is barbaric..

[mrtoad]

Kankaroo said;

Why has the Asian methods of punishment / execution usually been the most brutal, cruel & masochistic ?

As opposed to the humane forms of execution that have been used in the west;

Hang, drawn and quartered

Guillotine

Hanging

Electric chair

Pottasium injection

All methods of execution are barbaric.

You forgot to mention:

burning at the stake

dunking

gassing

I agree, all forms of execution are barbaric. Some more than others, and as mentioned us Brits were quite creative with some of our torture methods back in the middle ages.

Edited September 22, 2007 by mrtoad

[mikethevigoman]

I think that it is a great shame that a country with a majority Buddhist population has the death penalty.

I am 100% opposed to it in all cases and believe those involved are murderers.

Im absolutly convinced that a guy about to attack with a knife is not thinking .well i had better not kill this guy or ill be executed, or when a murder is being planned that the planner is considering his penalty if caught, in my opinion the death sentance is not a deterrant,.and the death sentance is barbaric in this day and age ,.actually i would think if life was like most lifers would choose to be executed,hence the suicide attemts made,.

[meom]

I think that it is a great shame that a country with a majority Buddhist population has the death penalty.

I am 100% opposed to it in all cases and believe those involved are murderers.

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Buddhism believe in reincarnation and as such there is no death and therefore the death penalty has maybe a different meaning for Buddhists.

[Mid]

I think that it is a great shame that a country with a majority Buddhist population has the death penalty.

I am 100% opposed to it in all cases and believe those involved are murderers.

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Buddhism believe in reincarnation and as such there is no death and therefore the death penalty has maybe a different meaning for Buddhists.

that's got to be worth starting up over on the Buddhist forum ,

interesting thought .

[taxexile]

Mr. Chavoret wrote a book titled, "The Last Executioner," which was published several months ago.

Today, he tries to enjoy life with his wife, two sons and one daughter.

"I was 55 when I did my last execution. I do get stressed from killing people, of course. But I try to look at the positive side.

"I have to remind myself that I did my duty, I did what the justice system told me to do, as an executioner. I am not completely happy with it, but I have to look at the bigger picture and try to understand things."

He favors lethal injection instead of shooting people in the back.

"It is more humane, because the body remains in the same condition, in its natural condition. The body is not going to be shot through the heart."

"I think the death penalty is to prevent crime, and to make an example of criminals. It is like when we had a campaign in Bangkok against littering. During that time, people did not throw things onto the street. But when we took the signs down, people went back to littering.

"We are better if we are repressed and controlled. We behave better. Thai people need to be put under some control, so we behave better."

Brutal behavior modification peaked in Thailand during the 15th century, when a royal Treason Act allowed executioners to be sadistic.

"Break open the skull, and drop in red-hot iron, so the brain spouts out like boiling liquid," the act advised.

"Shackle both elbows and both knees, and insert a stake, making movement impossible. Then, apply a flaming torch to the body, until death," the Treason Act said, according to "Discovering Ayutthaya," a book by Thai historian Charnvit Kasetsiri, describing King Rachathirat II's 1424-1448 reign.

A painting, displayed by Thailand's Department of Corrections, shows the official, royally mandated torture and execution of people in Thailand in the 15th century.

Photo copyright by Richard S. Ehrlich

*************

[londonthai]

death has a different meaning to buddhists, but death penalty is a punishment - even if performed in the temple. Thai believe the person will come back as a dog to be abused by everyone around

[geriatrickid]

The problem with the death penalty in the west is that there has always been a significant incidence of the wrongfully convicted ending up on death row. A year doesn't go by when someone isn't sprung from prison after a lengthy struggle that shows that the police manipulated evidence, or that the forensic reports were incorrect or that the DNA is for the wrong person. Maybe we can have executions but subject to the rule that if someone is wrongfully executed, the responsible parties forfeit their material possessions and their own lives. No doubt that would encourage caution.

[philliphn]

I think it would change the minds of many would be murders, rapists, and child molesters etc. The prison systems back there are getting way out of hand, with gangs, drugs, and murders in prison. There would be far less crime in the long run.

but there is a capital punishment in the us of a - and is not a deterrent for the murderers.

as to rapists and child molesters there is no capital punishment anywhere in the world (with exception od some backward muslim countries ruled by the sharia law).

those convicted of rape and child molestation and sentenced to prison do have a very hard time there - including group rape and murder. They know it before commiting the crime - they still do it.

capital punishment for them is just saving them from tortures by the inmates.

the prison system in the usa doesn't work despite being developed within the last 20 years from trapping 200k to 3mln convicts - it's no more now than a tool of class oppression against the poor and dispossessed

I disagree with your assertion that those convicted of Rape or Child Molestation, have a very hard time in prison, in the U.S.A. Or, that these perpertraitors are likely to be subjected to group Rape or Murder themselves, while incarcerated, as a result of their particular crime. I also, don't agree that the prison system is nothing more than a way of class oppression against the poor and dispossed. I can tell you that it is a fact that most prisoners don't even view the prison system as a tool of class oppression against the poor and dispossed. To the contrary the law protects the poor and dispossesed. They will complain that they did not have as good of an attorney like for instance OJ Simpson. It might surprise you to discover that our prisoners usually targeted people in their own communitties as victims, not the rich in their mansions. Many of our prisoner's crimes these days are drug related. Though you name it and I have worked with some one who did it. They chose to engage in this type of behavior. It was no mystery to most of them what the consequeces of this would be. The consequences were most strongly felt in their own communitties, by their relatives and in their neighbborhoods.

First, let me explain that I have worked in a Correctional System in the U.S.A. for over 22 years + and continue to do so. I have worked in Corrections in different capacities and Facilities over this very long peroid of time. Also, I have a MSW from the number one school in the United States in this field. I know what I am talking about.

Second, in those 22 years plus, I have never known of even one prisoner, who has been convicted of a Rape of a Child, Murder, or Molestation, being Group Raped or Murdered themselves, in prison, as a result of these crimes. In my ongoing 22 years plus of Correctional experience, I have not known of this happening even once! I have known hundreds of Murderers and work with people who have committed these offenes daily. In my role, I would be the first person that they would inform, if this was to happen to them. Their second course of action and thought, would be to see if it was possible to get a pay day, as a result of a Law suit, if this were to happen to them. For your information their is a Federal Law called the Prison Rape Elimination Act. Any accusation by a prisoner of being raped must be taken extremely seriously and it is! That is not to say that their are not sexual predators in prisoner, because their are, or that no prisoner has ever been raped. But to say that people who commit certain offenses are especailly targeted to be gang raped or murdered is not true. The sexual predators in prison target those who they see as vunerable. Also, they have their own special perverted motivations that to get into further would take more time than I am willing to put into a thread on this forum at this time.

In fact just yesterday, I was talking with a prisoner who is in prison for raping his own daughter, analy and forcing her to perform fellatio on him. He was upset that he had been given a 1 year continuance from the Parole Board for the second time. He told me that this continuance was out of order, because people had been doing this sort of thing for ever. You would be surprised by the very large numbers of people we have collected over many years who commit the sort of offenses you refer to. A requirement before they are given a Parole is that they receive Sex Offender Therapy. This is helpful. Unfortunately we know from the statistics that it does not work well with specifically Child Molestors. It does work better with other Sex Offenders.

As for Capital Punishment. The State in the U.S.A.that I work in does not have it. However, I support the imposition of Capital Punsihment in our State. I do think that it would make some people think twice before commiting this offense. No, it would not stop every one from killing some one. However, their are further implications, that do not come to most peoples minds, in terms of Capital Punishment. First, is the enourmous cost of keeping a predator healthy and alive in our prison system for the rest of his life and their are many of them. This burden has to be bourne by the taxpayers. This is a waste of precious resources. Second, how would you like to work on a daily basis with Antisocials who have nothing to loose. Sleeps 12+ hours every day, then is well rested to work out and get really physically strong. This person then becomes an even bigger danger. It does not take long for some one of this type to take your life with their bare hands, or hurt you, if they become angry, or frustrated for any reason. Believe me the reason, does not have to be much of a reason, if reason is even the right word to use at all.

[TAWP]

Capital punishment as a deterent never has and never will work.

If you want to argue that it is needed in some cases for 'cleansing' of specifical individuals, i.e. seriel killers/mass murderers, then do so. But don't window-dress it into benefiting people into being more secure against new acts by not yet discovered insane people.

[philliphn]

Capital punishment as a deterent never has and never will work.

If you want to argue that it is needed in some cases for 'cleansing' of specifical individuals, i.e. seriel killers/mass murderers, then do so. But don't window-dress it into benefiting people into being more secure against new acts by not yet discovered insane people.

I did not say that Capital Punsihsment works as a deterent. I said that it may make some people think twice. Read what I said a little more carefuly. 1. I talk about the danger to the caretakers of these Murderers. 2. The cost that the taxpayers have to bear to keep these Murderers healthy, alive for the rest of their lives, and their many of them. We waste alot of precious resources doing this. These limited resources should be spent on more constructive tasks. Such as for instance, educating and feeding poor people etc......

You seem to assume that most Murderers are insane. I have worked with many who are. However, most are not! I make no argument about their being any benefit to people in the community from acts of not yet discovered insane people.

[TAWP]

You don't make any sense.

You claim that it would make some people think twice. That is per defintion that it would work as a deterent, is it not? Or what would you call it?

In either way, scholars [and I] disagree with you, capital punishment don't 'make some people think twice' [sic].

If we break it down to three reasons people commit murders:

- Passion

- Sickness

- Profit

A crime of passion (be it anger, love, jelousy or anything else) the purp won't think twice since the act isn't done during rational thinking.

A murder during diress or [mental] sickness isn't done during normal thinking and reasoning and therefor won't be affected.

A crime for profit is done by individuals who believe they will never get caught, hence why they do it. The severity of the penalty therefor doesn't matter to them.

[TAWP]

Btw, if you knew anything about economics you would already knwo your second reason was false. No, it's not more cost effective to execute a prisoner than have him in prison for life, in any civilized state. Numbers from the US clearly shows that the maximum security prisons with the sectioned off 'death row' costs way more per inmate for the taxpayers than a 'normal' maximum security wing for 'lifers'. And this isn't only per day, but drawn out for the whole 'visit'.

Besides, using economics as a reason to kill people is sick.

[torrenova]

I have said for years that for the UK (and we could roll it out worldwide on a commission basis) we do it live in Hyde Park. GBP10 to enter, people vote for method of execution, could do with SMS these days but no "don't kill him" votes to be counted.

Hung, drawn and quartered, feed to the lions, as per the OP sounds good as well.

Locking these people us for 20/30/40+ years as vast expense is a waste of time and whether it would be a deterrent or not, it would save and make a fortune. I estimate 100,000 people on a Saturday or Sunday morning turning up.

Trial, guilty, appeal, guilty, off to the chopping block. Yes, there would be miscarriages of justice I agree and that would be hard on some people but the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

[philliphn]

You don't make any sense.

You claim that it would make some people think twice. That is per defintion that it would work as a deterent, is it not? Or what would you call it?

In either way, scholars [and I] disagree with you, capital punishment don't 'make some people think twice' [sic].

If we break it down to three reasons people commit murders:

- Passion

- Sickness

- Profit

A crime of passion (be it anger, love, jelousy or anything else) the purp won't think twice since the act isn't done during rational thinking.

A murder during diress or [mental] sickness isn't done during normal thinking and reasoning and therefor won't be affected.

A crime for profit is done by individuals who believe they will never get caught, hence why they do it. The severity of the penalty therefor doesn't matter to them.

You can think twice and still kill some one, for the reasons you cite, at the time due to mental illness, heightend emotionality, they may not be able to.Their may still be some comparatively few instances that the motivation to think twice may prevent the action. As I am fond of saying you should consider the consequences of your behavior. Of course this may be very difficult. However, I know enough about Murderers and their crimes not to think that Capital Punishment would reduce this crime by large numbers. That is why I didn't give much emphasis to this point at all initially. But, if it saves a few hundred lives then perhaps this is sufficient benefit. Also, some one who is cold and caluculating enough to kill for profit might then consider the risk not worth the profit, well probably not. You are right they don't think that they will be caught. I have worked in the past with a man who killed 9 people for profit. He did not think he would get caught. His nick name is nine lives. (just an interesting aside). As for the mentally ill murderer. I have worked with many. Most recently yesterday. Again, I am concerned with the caretakers of these violent offenders, the cost to society for their upkeep and maintenance. Over the years we collect an extremely large number of this type of criminal. We can spend millions of dollars to keep them alive when they get sick or old. In fact I know that we do. We should not waste our resources in this way. It is better to help poor people, orphans, etc......(donate to Fr Ray Children's orphanage in Pattaya) .....

Edited September 22, 2007 by philliphn

[philliphn]

Btw, if you knew anything about economics you would already knwo your second reason was false. No, it's not more cost effective to execute a prisoner than have him in prison for life, in any civilized state. Numbers from the US clearly shows that the maximum security prisons with the sectioned off 'death row' costs way more per inmate for the taxpayers than a 'normal' maximum security wing for 'lifers'. And this isn't only per day, but drawn out for the whole 'visit'.

Besides, using economics as a reason to kill people is sick.

The only reason that it is not more cost effective is because of prisoners endless appeals and delaying actions. The law needs to be revised to prevent endless appeals and delaying actions. I am not opposed to some appeals. It is not inexpensive to run a Maximum Security Prison. I used to work in Maximum Security for many years. I disagree that using economic reason to kill people is sick. These are limited resources and should be used more wisely!

[garro]

I think that it is a great shame that a country with a majority Buddhist population has the death penalty.

I am 100% opposed to it in all cases and believe those involved are murderers.

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Buddhism believe in reincarnation and as such there is no death and therefore the death penalty has maybe a different meaning for Buddhists.

The first precept in buddhism is not to kill any living being.

The buddha said;

All tremble at violence; all fear death. Putting oneself in the place of another, one should not kill nor cause another to kill.

All tremble at violence; life is dear to all. Putting oneself in the place of another, one should not kill nor cause another to kill.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn...hp.10.budd.html

I think this makes the Buddhist position on the death penalty clear.

[Naam]

I know enough about Murderers and their crimes not to think that Capital Punishment would reduce this crime by large numbers

please check the ratio murders/population in Saudi Arabia and compare with countries which do not apply capital punishment. you might revise your opinion.

[Naam]

Why has the Asian methods of punishment / execution usually been the most brutal, cruel & masochistic ?

perhaps you should read about punishment in mediaeval Europe. then you know what cruel means!

[garro]

I know enough about Murderers and their crimes not to think that Capital Punishment would reduce this crime by large numbers

please check the ratio murders/population in Saudi Arabia and compare with countries which do not apply capital punishment. you might revise your opinion.

I don't think that you can prove that the death penalty leads to reduced crime in The Magic Kingdom.

They are well known for manipulating statistics.

This is why there is no HIV there.

No rape.

No drug problems.

[ColPyat]

For your information their is a Federal Law called the Prison Rape Elimination Act. Any accusation by a prisoner of being raped must be taken extremely seriously and it is! That is not to say that their are not sexual predators in prisoner, because their are, or that no prisoner has ever been raped. But to say that people who commit certain offenses are especailly targeted to be gang raped or murdered is not true. The sexual predators in prison target those who they see as vunerable. Also, they have their own special perverted motivations that to get into further would take more time than I am willing to put into a thread on this forum at this time.

Interesting posts.

What do you think about this website - 'Stop Prison Rape', and the many events described in there?

http://www.spr.org/

There are more than a few events described in which the prison authorities allegedly have tolerated, covered up, and some even participated in prison rapes.

[Suszzy]

I think that it is a great shame that a country with a majority Buddhist population has the death penalty.

I am 100% opposed to it in all cases and believe those involved are murderers.

that's exactly what i thought.

totally agree with you!

life sentence would be better than death penalty!!

haven siad that, my husband thinks child killers and police killers should die..!!

[philliphn]

For your information their is a Federal Law called the Prison Rape Elimination Act. Any accusation by a prisoner of being raped must be taken extremely seriously and it is! That is not to say that their are not sexual predators in prisoner, because their are, or that no prisoner has ever been raped. But to say that people who commit certain offenses are especailly targeted to be gang raped or murdered is not true. The sexual predators in prison target those who they see as vunerable. Also, they have their own special perverted motivations that to get into further would take more time than I am willing to put into a thread on this forum at this time.

Interesting posts.

What do you think about this website - 'Stop Prison Rape', and the many events described in there?

http://www.spr.org/

There are more than a few events described in which the prison authorities allegedly have tolerated, covered up, and some even participated in prison rapes.

I obviously cannot speak for every State in the U.S.A. You name it and it has happened some where at some time.

Edited September 23, 2007 by philliphn

[ColPyat]

I obviously cannot speak for every State in the U.S.A. You name it and it has happened some where at some time.

If you don't mind, i have a few questions on this issue.

The impression i am getting from those tales, and also from excons, is that in many of the US prisons a inmate that is vulnerable can be somehow expected to be raped by other inmates. From your experience, is that so, or is that exaggerated? Does that count for all prisons, or only a few?

What, in your experience is done to prevent this?

Have you ever had cases like this where you had to protect inmates from such predators, or is it impossible to protect them?

[consumerismsux]

I think that it is a great shame that a country with a majority Buddhist population has the death penalty.

I am 100% opposed to it in all cases and believe those involved are murderers.

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Buddhism believe in reincarnation and as such there is no death and therefore the death penalty has maybe a different meaning for Buddhists.

The first precept in buddhism is not to kill any living being.

The buddha said;

All tremble at violence; all fear death. Putting oneself in the place of another, one should not kill nor cause another to kill.

All tremble at violence; life is dear to all. Putting oneself in the place of another, one should not kill nor cause another to kill.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn...hp.10.budd.html

I think this makes the Buddhist position on the death penalty clear.

And, as per usual, 'authorities' have manipulated religion, applied it to 'culture', and then made it law. It's no wonder people blindly follow 'the rules'. It's because they are so confused...it's easier to not question such things.

This happens all over the world.

[Ned]

Getting back to the original Thai execution......Beaten 90 times on your way to being tormented and then beheaded doesn't sound like fun. I think I'd even prefer being forced to watch Thai tv than that happening to me.

On the matter of executions in the USA (which other western nation still state murders?)....they are secretive affairs. Better to make the public sanctioned killing really public (yeah, coming to a park near you and your kiddies! You asked for it after all!) and to select executioners from the electoral roll in the same way as people are selected randomly for jury duty." Just push the buttom lady. This guy did something real bad. Let's see how long capital punishment survives then eh. It's a cowardly act alright and barbaric.