Solitary And Solitude

[Neeranam]

I need some help with a bit of translation. Does anyone know the difference between solitary and solitude.

I found the word การอยู่ลำพ้ง (gan-yoo-lam-pang ) in my dictionary for both words. To be honest, I really am not sure the difference in English.

What I am trying to translate is:

"My life has changed from having a feeling of desperate loneliness to having serene solitude."

Maybe there is an idiomatic way of saying this in Thai, or a saying/proverb/phrase?

Cheers

Neera

[snowleopard]

I need some help with a bit of translation. Does anyone know the difference between solitary and solitude.

I found the word  การอยู่ลำพ้ง  (gan-yoo-lam-pang ) in my dictionary for both words. To be honest, I really am not sure the difference in English.

What I am trying to translate is:

"My life has changed from having  a feeling of desperate loneliness to having serene solitude."

Maybe there is an idiomatic way of saying this in Thai, or a saying/proverb/phrase?

Cheers

Neera

I need some help with a bit of translation. Does anyone know the difference between solitary and solitude.

I found the word  การอยู่ลำพ้ง  (gan-yoo-lam-pang ) in my dictionary for both words. To be honest, I really am not sure the difference in English.

Does anyone know the difference between solitary and solitude.

Hi there Neeranam.

First a little definition of the adjective "solitary" with examples.

1.alone without companions:"A snowleopard is a solitary hunter."

2.saddened because of isolation:"He spent solitary evenings drinking booze in front of the TV."

3.forcefully separated from a group:"The psychopath was kept in solitary confinement."

4.occuring in a distinctly unique and single instance:"That was a solitary example of heroism."

5.not gregarious:"He's a solitary loner who doesn't like to mingle much with the gregarious Thais at his hamlet."

Now,here's solitude which is a noun meaning "seclusion"!

1.alone and remote from society:"We live in solitude up in the mountains."

2.a lonely place:"The solitude of the open sea was a new challenge."

What I am trying to translate is:

"My life has changed from having  a feeling of desperate loneliness to having serene solitude."

Okay!I'll give it a shot and let's see what this cat can bring in!

Here we go...

ชีวิตของฉันได้เปลี่ยนแปลงอย่างยิ่ง สมัยก่อนรู้สึกมีโดดเดี่ยวและทุกข์ใจ ในปัจจุบันนี้ฉันอยู่คนเดียวสงบนิ่ง "chee-wit korng chan dai plee-an plaeng yahng ying; samai gorn roo-seuk mee doht-dee-o lae tohk-jai; nai pachu-ban nee chan yoo kon dee-o sa-ngop ning" ="My life has changed from having a feeling of desperate loneliness to having serene solitude."

I hope our Thai language professor in residence,Khun Username 2004,will drop by soon and give his opinion on my translation!

He might have a neat little idiom at hand too!?

Cheers.

Snowleopard.

[Richard W]

I need some help with a bit of translation. Does anyone know the difference between solitary and solitude.

I found the word การอยู่ลำพ้ง (gan-yoo-lam-pang ) in my dictionary for both words. To be honest, I really am not sure the difference in English.

ลำพ้ง /lamphang/ = only, (a)lone, solitary (adjective in English)

อยู่ลำพ้ง /yuulamphang/ = to be alone (verb phrase), solitary (adjective)

การอยู่ลำพ้ง /kaanyuulamphang/ = being alone (noun phrase), solitude (noun)

I'm not sure that you could say *มีการอยู่ลำพ้ง = 'have solitude' - this construction is normally associated with abstract nouns in ความ, e.g. มีความสุข 'have happiness'.

[bina]

not gregarious:"He's a solitary loner who doesn't like to mingle much with the gregarious Thais at his hamlet."

sorry snow but solitary loner is a redundancy. You can be a solitary hunter roaming the wilderness. you can be a loner. solitary describes more a frame of referance and not neccessarily a mood or personality.

porcupines are solitary animals except during the mating season. They are not loners because loner iimplies a mood different from the usual group: a dog that is a loner because dogs are gregarious (pack) animals and this dog stays away from the pack.

a person can be a loner like me as i tend to stick to my own territory and not run with the 'pack' of kibbutzniks. I live a solitary but not lonely life, as i care for many animals and work with people during the day. When i travelled in Issan, i was alone, a solitary traveller, but never lonely.

a hermit can live in solitude, alone with him/herself, but not lonely.

depending on what culture you come from, solitariness may be viewed as negative, as by people living kibbutz life, or small thai farm life. However, other cultures may view this as a positive trait. The same with 'aloneness'. Solitude also may be viewed as good or bad. Americans used to say that if they saw smoke from an other house's chimney, the house was too close. they enjoy their solitude, their solitary life. Thais seem to get hysterical if they are too far away one from an other. (extended family etc.) So do most Israelis.

[username2004]

If there was one only person who just cannot translate -- that person would be me! So I am afraid to give it a shot and therefore will reivse Leo's version, the one I think is quite close.

ชีวิตของฉันได้เปลี่ยนแปลงจากความรู้สึกโดดเดี่ยวและทุกข์ใจเป็นความรู้สึกสันโดษ (chee wit kong chun dai plean jark kwarm roo suek dod-deaw lae took jai pen kwarm roo seuk sun dod)

Solitude, according to an English-Thai dictionary, means "สันโดษ" [N, ADV]. "สันโดษ," as the Thai Royal Institution Dictionary puts it, means "to be alone and be in seclusion." But, as a native speaker, I would say that it also implies that you can be alone without any help from someone, and you can survive with whatever you earn. You are, in short, satisfied with your simple life.

NOTE: The pattern: ได้เปลี่ยนแปลงจาก...เป็น... (dai plean plang jark...pen... = to change from...to...)

I'm not sure that you could say *มีการอยู่ลำพ้ง = 'have solitude' - this construction is normally associated with abstract nouns in ความ, e.g. มีความสุข 'have happiness'.

Richard, I agree with you. มีการอยู่ลำพัง is weird, but การอยู่ลำพัง is okay.

[Neeranam]

You guys are amazing! Thanks a lot. I just got that before I go out to give my translation. You really helped me out Snowleopard, Username2004, bina,and Richard W.

I will use one of these:

ชีวิตของฉันได้เปลี่ยนแปลงจากความรู้สึกโดดเดี่ยวและทุกข์ใจเป็นความรู้สึกสันโดษ (chee wit kong chun dai plean jark kwarm roo suek dod-deaw lae took jai pen kwarm roo seuk sun dod)

ชีวิตของฉันได้เปลี่ยนแปลงอย่างยิ่ง สมัยก่อนรู้สึกมีโดดเดี่ยวและทุกข์ใจ ในปัจจุบันนี้ฉันอยู่คนเดียวสงบนิ่ง "chee-wit korng chan dai plee-an plaeng yahng ying samai gorn roo-seuk mee doht-dee-o lae tohk-jai nai pachu-ban nee chan yoo kon dee-o sa-ngop ning"

Cheers

Neeranam

[snowleopard]

not gregarious:"He's a solitary loner who doesn't like to mingle much with the gregarious Thais at his hamlet."

sorry snow but solitary loner is a redundancy.  You can be a solitary hunter roaming the wilderness.  you can be a loner.  solitary describes more a frame of referance and not neccessarily a mood or personality. 

porcupines are solitary animals except during the mating season.  They are not loners because loner iimplies a mood different from the usual group:  a dog that is a loner because dogs are gregarious (pack) animals and this dog stays away from the pack. 

a person can be a loner like me as i tend to stick to my own territory and not run with the 'pack' of kibbutzniks.  I live a solitary but not lonely life, as i care for many animals and work with people during the day.  When i travelled in Issan, i was alone, a solitary traveller, but never lonely.

a hermit can live in solitude, alone with him/herself, but not lonely.

depending on what culture you come from, solitariness may be viewed as negative, as by people living kibbutz life, or small thai farm life.  However, other cultures may view this as a positive trait.  The same with 'aloneness'.  Solitude also may be viewed as good or bad.  Americans used to say that if they saw smoke from an other house's chimney, the house was too close.  they enjoy their solitude, their solitary life.  Thais seem to get hysterical if they are too far away one from an other.  (extended family etc.) So do most Israelis. 

not gregarious:"He's a solitary loner who doesn't like to mingle much with the gregarious Thais at his hamlet."

sorry snow but solitary loner is a redundancy.  You can be a solitary hunter roaming the wilderness.  you can be a loner.  solitary describes more a frame of referance and not neccessarily a mood or personality. 

sorry snow but solitary loner is a redundancy

Bina!

One definition of "loner" is individualist.An individualist is an individual who pursues a markedly independant course in thought and action.

He can be solitary.

"A solitary individualist."="A solitary loner." (no tautological redundancy)

I think you refer to the other definition of "loner" which means:"a person who avoids others"!

Cheers.

Snowleopard.

[meadish_sweetball]

Hi all,

Very interesting discussion - I think Username2004's modification of Snowleopard's translation sounds really good. My problem is that I am unable to distinguish the fine connotations of advanced Thai - I have to rely on my dictionaries, and as we all know, dictionaries are seldom as good as a native speaker with a sensitive ear.

I believe an important aspect of this English sentence is that it illustrates one's contentment with being alone, as opposed to the 'desperate loneliness' felt by a person who cannot bear to do anything without at least one other human being. It is not a change of conditions, but a change of state of mind within the same living conditions.

As far as I can tell, that notion seems to be well conveyed by Snowleopard's/Username's version in combination. Maybe you should form a translation team...

I also sense an indirect revelation in this sentence, which is well illustrated by 'dai plian plaeng jaak ... pen'.

All in all, maybe you are too modest, Username2004... you surely seem like a competent translator to my eyes, anyway.

เท่าที่เห็นแล้วนะครับ ผมถือว่า คุณ Username2004 ได้ปรับปรุงประโยคที่ คุณ Snowleopard เสนอให้ประโยคนี้ ด้วยฝีมืออันแสนน่าประทับใจ