Are You All That Cheap?!?!?

[chiang mai]

I was told a few months back by another restaurant owner that all the "Italian" restaurants in Chiang Mai had gotten together and decided to start charging a ten percent service fee as there is strength in numbers.

It will be interesting to see if the others are doing it.

I have heard, from sources, that must remain anonymous, all restaurant owners in CM have been instructed to be on the lookout for UG and in the event of his appearance at their respective establishments he is to be charged an unconditional 15 % service charge else he shall be dumped in the Moat - may be that it's all rumor.

[cm das]

I noticed the discrepancy at the Duke's recently too (no service charge at the old location, %10 at Night Bazaar). And I don't like the smell of it. If it's to cover the high rent, which is also what my gf suggested, then calling it a service charge is a lie. If it's really for the staff, then why have it only at one location? I also don't tip when there's an automatic charge.

[cnxmike]

Someone said: "As a rule I never tip extra in establishments that apply a service charge". So do I.

By the way Dukes not only charges 10% service charge but 7% VAT as well!!!

That's the only place outside the big hotels I know doing so.

[Donnyboy]

I noticed the discrepancy at the Duke's recently too (no service charge at the old location, %10 at Night Bazaar). And I don't like the smell of it. If it's to cover the high rent, which is also what my gf suggested, then calling it a service charge is a lie. If it's really for the staff, then why have it only at one location? I also don't tip when there's an automatic charge.

I woud imagine it is to cover the rent there. Why dont they have the prices 10% in that case.

I heard that the rent could be as high as 250,000 p/m.

[Donnyboy]

Someone said: "As a rule I never tip extra in establishments that apply a service charge". So do I.

By the way Dukes not only charges 10% service charge but 7% VAT as well!!!

That's the only place outside the big hotels I know doing so.

any chance of a VAT refund at the airport should you leave LOS before the next toilet stop?

[cnxmike]

@donnyboy

as far as I know, you only get a VAT refund for a purchase you take outside the country, as long as you are a tourist. I never heard about food you ate already. But if you know otherwise, it would be great, if you would share your wisdom with us.

[Ulysses G.]

I noticed the discrepancy at the Duke's recently too (no service charge at the old location, %10 at Night Bazaar). And I don't like the smell of it. If it's to cover the high rent, which is also what my gf suggested, then calling it a service charge is a lie. If it's really for the staff, then why have it only at one location? I also don't tip when there's an automatic charge.

I woud imagine it is to cover the rent there. Why dont they have the prices 10% in that case.

I heard that the rent could be as high as 250,000 p/m.

When you are paying this much rent, I can understand getting creative about ways to pay it.

In Dave's defence, he figures that most expats will go to the old location and tourists don't seem to mind paying too much at all the other restauarants in the Night Bazaar area, so they can keep the new branch in business.

[cm das]

[

When you are paying this much rent, I can understand getting creative about ways to pay it.

In Dave's defence, he figures that most expats will go to the old location and tourists don't seem to mind paying too much at all the other restauarants in the Night Bazaar area, so they can keep the new branch in business.

Creativity is one thing, dishonesty is another. Actually I like the food at the Duke's, but I think the management should be straight with the customers. A service charge should go to the staff, not towards the rent. If the rent is high at the new place, then raise the prices there. Or make less profit. It's not as though the new Duke's has an automatic right to the same profit margin as their old location.

[Ajarn]

Typically the service charge is to take the place of the tip and it is spread amongst all the staff, including, admin, cleaners, kitchen security etc... from the owners side it can also be used as leverage against breakage and theft etc... from the customers position if the food and service is good a 15% tip is not much to give so with the 10% service there is still room to leave the server a little extra.

I have spoken to many workers in Thai establishments over the decades about these "service charges" and with a few notable exceptions, the money goes into the pocket of the owner and not to the workers. You have to understand that there are some Thai citizens people who get physically ill when they see Farangs give significant tips to workers who they consider to be sub-human.

Bullshit

[noise]

Went to Giorgio restaurant in the city yesterday and was charged a 10% "service charge" When asking what it was for there was no reason but since about a month already in place and "because everybody is doing is" Used to eat for about 700 to 800 baht for two, now the bill was 1,118 baht for the same deal. Wonder if this is the new norm in Chiang Mai and is something because they can get away with? After all, why not as they're full every night. In hotels yes, but in restaurants? Anybody has had any experiences like this?

I have not experienced a restaurant starting all of a sudden starting to charge a service charge, but I first experienced service charges over here when I first came over in Jan 66. Nothing new, just more wide spread now.

[Ulysses G.]

When you are paying this much rent, I can understand getting creative about ways to pay it.

In Dave's defence, he figures that most expats will go to the old location and tourists don't seem to mind paying too much at all the other restauarants in the Night Bazaar area, so they can keep the new branch in business.

Creativity is one thing, dishonesty is another. Actually I like the food at the Duke's, but I think the management should be straight with the customers. A service charge should go to the staff, not towards the rent. If the rent is high at the new place, then raise the prices there. Or make less profit. It's not as though the new Duke's has an automatic right to the same profit margin as their old location.

Please remember that I am speculating here, I don't know exactly what happens to the service charge at the Duke's.

However, I think that many places use the service charge towards the employees salary, rather than on top of the employees salary, which saves the owner money for salary, but does not completely go to the employees in the way that the customer intended. To me, this is dishonest, but other owners, just steal the tips outright. This why I object to these service charges. There is no way to tell who actually gets them.

[john b good]

Typically the service charge is to take the place of the tip and it is spread amongst all the staff, including, admin, cleaners, kitchen security etc... from the owners side it can also be used as leverage against breakage and theft etc... from the customers position if the food and service is good a 15% tip is not much to give so with the 10% service there is still room to leave the server a little extra.

I have spoken to many workers in Thai establishments over the decades about these "service charges" and with a few notable exceptions, the money goes into the pocket of the owner and not to the workers. You have to understand that there are some Thai citizens people who get physically ill when they see Farangs give significant tips to workers who they consider to be sub-human.

Bullshit

Is this the standard response to everything you disagree with.

[john b good]

When you are paying this much rent, I can understand getting creative about ways to pay it.

In Dave's defence, he figures that most expats will go to the old location and tourists don't seem to mind paying too much at all the other restauarants in the Night Bazaar area, so they can keep the new branch in business.

Creativity is one thing, dishonesty is another. Actually I like the food at the Duke's, but I think the management should be straight with the customers. A service charge should go to the staff, not towards the rent. If the rent is high at the new place, then raise the prices there. Or make less profit. It's not as though the new Duke's has an automatic right to the same profit margin as their old location.

Please remember that I am speculating here, I don't know exactly what happens to the service charge at the Duke's.

However, I think that many places use the service charge towards the employees salary, rather than on top of the employees salary, which saves the owner money for salary, but does not completely go to the employees in the way that the customer intended. To me, this is dishonest, but other owners, just steal the tips outright. This why I object to these service charges. There is no way to tell who actually gets them.

Agreed. It is extremly dishonest and is no different than taking money under false pretenses

[Hog Head]

The practice of dictating that I shall pay an extra x% for "service" annoys the hel_l out of me, and I refuse to patronise such places.

[Ulysses G.]

As far as the Duke's goes, Dave's vision was to keep the original location low-priced with a bigger menu and daily specials for us expats and run the Night Bazaar Branch to service tourists with prices that reflect the expensive rents and costs of doing business in that area. He does go out of his way to tell locals to avoid the more expensive location and I am quite happy to go to the one on the river.

We were discussing this thread and Dave told me that one reason that some places want to add the service charge is because the hotels do it and then pay better salaries than the restaurants can afford. The restaurants train the unskilled employees and then they quit to work in hotels for better salaries and better benifits.

The problem is that many other places with less scruples just steal the service charge and give little to nothing the workers and keep the extra as a bonus for the fat-cats on top.

I guess that this just isn't a black and white issue, but, if we have to have them, I would love to see these service charges go directly to the employees by law.

Edited September 28, 2007 by Ulysses G.

[adjan jb]

In France, service charge has been a common practive for years, maybe decades. Most people I know don't tip anymore.

[Johpa]

Typically the service charge is to take the place of the tip and it is spread amongst all the staff, including, admin, cleaners, kitchen security etc... from the owners side it can also be used as leverage against breakage and theft etc... from the customers position if the food and service is good a 15% tip is not much to give so with the 10% service there is still room to leave the server a little extra.

I have spoken to many workers in Thai establishments over the decades about these "service charges" and with a few notable exceptions, the money goes into the pocket of the owner and not to the workers. You have to understand that there are some Thai citizens people who get physically ill when they see Farangs give significant tips to workers who they consider to be sub-human.

Bullshit

No Ajarn, my comments were meant to be taken quite literally by folks just like you as these people have been known to instantly vomit behind the counters of their eateries when they see these tips being given. Thus, in order to prevent the aroma of nausea contaminating the dining area, they instigated these service charges as puking in front of diners was perceived as bad for business. I have also been told you instantly vomit on the floor at the mention of my name.

[southerndog]

What's with all of the farangs I meet here in Thailand? All you wanna do is horde your money and never share.

If I hear one more farang utter the words "Its so cheap..." my head will explode.. I have met so many cheapskates here , its ridiculous.. Now we got a guy starting a post over a 10% service charge?? You people were blessed to have the opportunity to make a living in the west, when you come to Thailand, please open your wallets and share a little.

[solo siam]

Actually a 10% service charge is a bit of a piss-take, especially as it's not likely that he's talking about a boodle-stand or 50 baht meal type place.

Where I come from employers pay wages and tips are considered a bonus, this forced tipping and at high-end places where food is expensive anyway takes the piss IMO.

But yes lots of cheapskates, I'm talking about the people who have money but live in a 3,000 baht room, drive a 2nd hand motorcycle with their kids hanging off the handlebars and who spend so little money here that I can understand why they are making visas harder to get.

[britmaveric]

Service charges alone are a piss taker - in east or west.

[realthaideal]

Some of us are making our livings right now, here, and we ain't rich. Maybe not so with you. THat's one thing. The other thing is knowing value and a ripoff. Then there's the other thing about the service charge lining owners' pockets vs getting to the workers we'd rather leave it for.

So cheap ? Yeah. Fine.

Fools who throw money around ? No. Good.

Hearts in right place, and voting with our wallets and our feet for good restaurant policy ? Yes. That's the way to go.

[lazeeboy]

Some of us are making our livings right now, here, and we ain't rich. Maybe not so with you. THat's one thing. The other thing is knowing value and a ripoff. Then there's the other thing about the service charge lining owners' pockets vs getting to the workers we'd rather leave it for.

So cheap ? Yeah. Fine.

Fools who throw money around ? No. Good.

Hearts in right place, and voting with our wallets and our feet for good restaurant policy ? Yes. That's the way to go.

i dont mind the 10% sevice charge as long as it goes to the staff ,i know in thailand it often does'nt ,that makes me mad ,as the staff dont realise its for them .

[BlackArtemis]

I make Baht, I decide where my money goes. It goes into the hand of the nice hilltribe boy who always fills my drink at the local moo katah, or into the polite waitress' hand at a restaurant. Also after spending a good amount of time here you begin to get a better understanding on what things SHOULD cost and how to haggle to that point.

Sure there are a bunch of really rude people who think everything costs 10-20 baht to make and that the person selling it is making a killing, even though they are very likely not the owner of the store or merchandise. But look a little harder and you can differentiate between the people complaining about the 10% because they want Somchai to get the tip, and the guy in the Night Bazaar haggling red in the face thinking he is being ripped off.

[Wizzard of Oz]

What's with all of the farangs I meet here in Thailand? All you wanna do is horde your money and never share.

If I hear one more farang utter the words "Its so cheap..." my head will explode.. I have met so many cheapskates here , its ridiculous.. Now we got a guy starting a post over a 10% service charge?? You people were blessed to have the opportunity to make a living in the west, when you come to Thailand, please open your wallets and share a little.

Lol, I was about to flame ya, then I saw it was you. I'm still going to.

How does having more money mean it's ok to let people rip you off? Like <deleted> man? Not many phalang that live here earn an ongoing phalang income. They are either living off savings or working and earning thai baht. And a lot of foreigners here work earning 20k or so a month. Not really enough to live while still saving up enough to have a chance at financial security when they are older. On top of that, maybe some people want the keep the option open to one day go and live in a phalang country - that takes a LOT of savings for a phalang earning a teaching wage.

Apart from those important (very important as far as I'm concerned) points, it's pretty whack to tell people how to spend their money. If you want to shell out a lot of extra baht for an absurd reason like an owner trying to get tips for waiters/waitresses going into thier own pokets instead of the waiters/waitresses getting it, go for it, but how is it your business in telling others they should hand over extra cash and be happy to be ripped off?

(had deuces, checked through 2 streets on board of As886s2s .... he open shoves... shows rockets ... wptyggfu)

[solo siam]

I cant believe that 'pharang' are working here for 20k baht a month, Thailand definitely does not need these people. Go home already..

[Blinky Bill]

I cant believe that 'pharang' are working here for 20k baht a month, Thailand definitely does not need these people. Go home already..

Finally something sensible has been said................especially those smelly back-packers that wear neckties and pose as ET's.

[Johpa]

I cant believe that 'pharang' are working here for 20k baht a month, Thailand definitely does not need these people. Go home already..

Most of my Thai neighbors make far less than 20k per month. Perhaps what Thailand does not need are neo-sahib Farangs making many times that amount. Perhaps those are the people that many Thais would like to send packing back home.

[Ulysses G.]

There is a big difference between cheap and stupid.

Why pay 10% more to an owner who is stealing from his impoverished employees?

[Bill97]

What's with all of the farangs I meet here in Thailand? All you wanna do is horde your money and never share.

Perhaps you should get around more and meet some other farangs. I and a lot of the farangs that I know regularly are happy to give extra for work well done and to give to support the communities. But you will not find them by trying to follow a trail of 20 baht notes they leave behind.

[cm das]

I cant believe that 'pharang' are working here for 20k baht a month, Thailand definitely does not need these people. Go home already..

Sorry, why should I go home? (btw, I make 25k )