Bye Bye Thailand

[GuestHouse]

Also children in the UK scare me, seriously.

I'm not at all suprised that they frighten you. You are so far out of touch on what goes on in the vast majority of British schools its a clear indication that your fear is that of the unknown.

[meemiathai]

I'll take single (not so selfish) male any day of the week over married with kids thank you very much

All the faults of Thailand are a drop in the ocean compared with other countries.

I am seriously wondering what the expat community in Thailand is coming to.

I can't believe how upset some of you actually get over some of the meekest of things!

I think some people are just not cut out for living in Thailand in the long run. 2 or 3 weeks does not equal 2 or 3 months at a time living in a foreign country.

Maybe when you get a visa they should test if you are mentally and financially robust enough to hack it out in third-world countries.

Some just can't 'rough' it with the rest???

Racist Thais getting you down? Ignore them, if they annoy enough you just make up your own special racist word in english for them and use it back at them.

Double pricing getting to you? Learn the lingo and negotiate, trust me if you can talk the talk they (9/10 times) will drop the price as double pricing is for TOURISTS not expats.

Corrupt officials? Every country has this, only Thailand and SEA as a rule have it on the surface, not in the shadows.

Dodgy electric and internet connection? Oh gimme a break, If can't hack the short-comings just leave and quit whining!

Scary traffic on the roads getting to you? Get a big, tough car and only drive in the early morning hours.

In the forces we'd occasionally have these whining idiots niggling on about petty bs, like 'Why can't we get this and that!' and a favourite; 'Why can't we get the tax-free allowances the Yanks get etc.' An older, wiser and more seasoned soldier would eventually turn around and say 'If you don't like the army, just go get your 6848 and fcking sign on the dotted line (notice to leave the army) but jack in the whining attitude.'

Are you drunk?

[meemiathai]

Of course neither should we knock people for being childless - the fact that some individuals remain childless is perhaps a blessing for the rest of us.

You see GH, I was going to praise you in a prievious post for being really honest but then you came up with this post. I think you should have 10 children at least!

Are you really that inconfident?

[meemiathai]

I'm quite happy to bring up my children in Private education in Thailand, my view is and always will be that the majority of learning should take place at home. Those that rely upon schools to bring up their children probably do belong back in the West, where this is par for the course.

Having been through one of the better schools in the UK, I wouldn't wish that upon my children apart from the social aspect - UK schools now spend most of their time on helping below average students get better, whilst the other students wait, rather than catering to intelligent, gifted or hard working students. The onus was already on non-competetiveness back when I was in school just over a decade ago, it's now progressed into further PC territory now, with grades getting easier every year and Science and Technical skills falling way to drama, social studies and 'humanities'.

Also children in the UK scare me, seriously.

Which school it is, your responsilbility is to help them live a happy life. Just look at them and see if they are happy! He doesn't have to be a doctor, engineer or lawyer to be happy!

[GuestHouse]

Are you really that inconfident?

I'm confident that you did not mean 'inconfident'.

[meemiathai]

Also children in the UK scare me, seriously.

I'm not at all suprised that they frighten you. You are so far out of touch on what goes on in the vast majority of British schools its a clear indication that your fear is that of the unknown.

Sorry to point out that it is narrowmindedness that is driving you to think that growing up in the west(especially in UK which is in your mind) is superior to growing up in Thailand. If living a life as a stray dog is happy I'd rather be a stray dog. Keep pressuring your kids, GH.

[GuestHouse]

You've take the trouble to quote my post and accuse me of narrowmindedeness - so come on up with the goods MeemiaThai - Feel free to point the evidence in my post that there is any basis to your claim that I " think that growing up in the west(especially in UK which is in your mind) is superior to growing up in Thailand".

If living a life as a stray dog is happy I'd rather be a stray dog. Keep pressuring your kids, GH

Perhaps in the part of the world you come from it acceptable to refer to people as dogs - The language you choose says a great deal about yourself and nothing about me or my family.

And on that latter point - Since I have not chosen to bring my family to this forum, I'll thank you not to do so on my behalf.

Or do I need to take that to the moderators?

[meemiathai]

You've take the trouble to quote my post and accuse me of narrowmindedeness - so come on up with the goods MeemiaThai - Feel free to point the evidence in my post that there is any basis to your claim that I " think that growing up in the west(especially in UK which is in your mind) is superior to growing up in Thailand".

If living a life as a stray dog is happy I'd rather be a stray dog. Keep pressuring your kids, GH

Perhaps in the part of the world you come from it acceptable to refer to people as dogs - The language you choose says a great deal about yourself and nothing about me or my family.

And on that latter point - Since I have not chosen to bring my family to this forum, I'll thank you not to do so on my behalf.

Or do I need to take that to the moderators?

Well to be honest, I am a little surprised that you would seem to be so angry. I am just honestly saying what I have in my mind. IF, " think that growing up in the west(especially in UK which is in your mind) is superior to growing up in Thailand" is not what is in your mind, simply say NO, I can simply apologize for my misjudgements. But is it?

And yes, I mean I can be a dog and that is not a problem for me. If you have found my post offensive I can bow or kneel down to apologize for it. Sorry Sir, it is me that is a dog, and that has nothing to do with your family.

[meemiathai]

If living a life as a stray dog is happy I'd rather be a stray dog. Keep pressuring your kids, GH

OK, I see maybe the latter sentence should have been in a new paragraph. Maybe my mistake. But I swear, those 2 sentences were never meant to be related. Just in case you misunderstood. No offense meant to you or your family.

[solo siam]

Also children in the UK scare me, seriously.

I'm not at all suprised that they frighten you. You are so far out of touch on what goes on in the vast majority of British schools its a clear indication that your fear is that of the unknown.

Just about everyone I know back in the UK is petrified of young thugs produced by the poor schooling system, are you suggesting that the 'hoodies' phenomenom is fabricated, or that groups of children don't beat grown adults to death for a six-pack of beer, or stab teachers and students.

I went to perhaps the most progressive school in the UK, only 10 years ago and the system was deteriorating even whilst I was there.

Teenage pregnancy, bullying, drug use and violence are higher in UK schools than just about anywhere else in the world. I can understand that you left Thailand because you thought that your children would get a better education elsewhere and so have to defend that stance, but I'm afraid that the 'vast majority' of British schools are not particularly good, in the grand scheme of things, at all.

Competition has been almost completely eradicated from the British education system, many schools now don't even have winners for sports day, instead people are awaded 'points' for taking part.

Don't get me started on the 'no fail' A'Levels.

[ColPyat]

Which school it is, your responsilbility is to help them live a happy life. Just look at them and see if they are happy! He doesn't have to be a doctor, engineer or lawyer to be happy!

It is not that easy, i am afraid.

A good education in Thailand is very expensive. The best possible education is beyond most people's reach. And the free education system here in Thailand is not going to prepare a person for a happy life - it generally prepares for a life of poverty. And no - it is not a happy life. Ask my wife, who had to start working for her living at the age of 11. Ask the millions of Thais who work for a base salary in a horrible factory of 6000 Baht a month, with overtime a bit more than 10000 Baht (which nowadays many cannot get with the enormous cut backs in many industries).

As a parent one wishes the best possible future and happiness for one's children. One thing that is superior in most European countries is a free education system of high quality that gives a child a free choice - be it as a lawyer, or as a carpenter.

So, yes, i do think everyday about returning to the west for the sake of my son's education (and no, to the poster who thinks that some may not be cut for life here - i have spent half my life here in Asia - almost 20 years. I think that qualifies me to be "cut" for life here), and how i am going to manage the years of bureaucratic and legal nightmare i have in front of me to be able to achieve that one day.

I don't know if you have children, or even, if you live permanently in Thailand, but i guess not. When you have children here, and cannot afford the best possible education (that is 10000 US$ +++ a year), things are not that simple, and worrying about these things can give you sleepless nights.

[meemiathai]

Which school it is, your responsilbility is to help them live a happy life. Just look at them and see if they are happy! He doesn't have to be a doctor, engineer or lawyer to be happy!

It is not that easy, i am afraid.

A good education in Thailand is very expensive. The best possible education is beyond most people's reach. And the free education system here in Thailand is not going to prepare a person for a happy life - it generally prepares for a life of poverty. And no - it is not a happy life. Ask my wife, who had to start working for her living at the age of 11. Ask the millions of Thais who work for a base salary in a horrible factory of 6000 Baht a month, with overtime a bit more than 10000 Baht (which nowadays many cannot get with the enormous cut backs in many industries).

As a parent one wishes the best possible future and happiness for one's children. One thing that is superior in most European countries is a free education system of high quality that gives a child a free choice - be it as a lawyer, or as a carpenter.

So, yes, i do think everyday about returning to the west for the sake of my son's education (and no, to the poster who thinks that some may not be cut for life here - i have spent half my life here in Asia - almost 20 years. I think that qualifies me to be "cut" for life here), and how i am going to manage the years of bureaucratic and legal nightmare i have in front of me to be able to achieve that one day.

I don't know if you have children, or even, if you live permanently in Thailand, but i guess not. When you have children here, and cannot afford the best possible education (that is 10000 US$ +++ a year), things are not that simple, and worrying about these things can give you sleepless nights.

I really wish you would have posted this for jts-khorat.

Anyway, maybe I am just simplistic, I went to one of the best schools here in HK, if I have children it would be easy for them to go to the same school which to many parents would be a dream. But, I am not sure if I would like my kids going there. The education system in HK now is becoming about competing in how much you know. I really don't know how to explain. It is about, you should do this you should do that, you shouldn't do this you shouldn't do that. Maybe this is becoming the trend of the world. But if I have kids, I will tell them to play as much as possible, there is land for you in thailand and you can always go back to be farmers and you won't starve. So do whatever you like as long as you don't harm people!

[meemiathai]

BTW, I can't resist. jts-khorat, would you like to respond? I have found Colpyat for you to argue!

[ColPyat]

I really wish you would have posted this for jts-khorat.

Anyway, maybe I am just simplistic, I went to one of the best schools here in HK, if I have children it would be easy for them to go to the same school which to many parents would be a dream. But, I am not sure if I would like my kids going there. The education system in HK now is becoming about competing in how much you know. I really don't know how to explain. It is about, you should do this you should do that, you shouldn't do this you shouldn't do that. Maybe this is becoming the trend of the world. But if I have kids, I will tell them to play as much as possible, there is land for you in thailand and you can always go back to be farmers and you won't starve. So do whatever you like as long as you don't harm people!

I am sorry - but i think that you have a rather romantic view of life as a farmer here.

You find many ex-farmers in the industrial zones, and bad as they are - they had a reason to move there.

There is not "land" for you. Land is unproportionally expensive here, compared to the possible income. Anything beyond a subsistence level existence is a major investment. Subsistence level farming means back breaking work, for very little money, which will not be enough for proper health care beyond the bare minimum, schooling that is so below standard that not sending kids to school at all gives a better education (at least then they won't have to undergo nationalistic brainwashing).

I didn't like school at home, but school in Thailand is much worse. Much longer hours - from 8 in the morning to 3 or 4 in the afternoon, terrible rote learning. In the cities the free schools are very violent, rapes and and horrible fights are very common, classes are often 40 to 50 children.

Upcountry the education is terrible.

Private schools give kids a somewhat OK education. International schools worth their name are 10000 US$ a year +++

[meemiathai]

I really wish you would have posted this for jts-khorat.

Anyway, maybe I am just simplistic, I went to one of the best schools here in HK, if I have children it would be easy for them to go to the same school which to many parents would be a dream. But, I am not sure if I would like my kids going there. The education system in HK now is becoming about competing in how much you know. I really don't know how to explain. It is about, you should do this you should do that, you shouldn't do this you shouldn't do that. Maybe this is becoming the trend of the world. But if I have kids, I will tell them to play as much as possible, there is land for you in thailand and you can always go back to be farmers and you won't starve. So do whatever you like as long as you don't harm people!

I am sorry - but i think that you have a rather romantic view of life as a farmer here.

You find many ex-farmers in the industrial zones, and bad as they are - they had a reason to move there.

There is not "land" for you. Land is unproportionally expensive here, compared to the possible income. Anything beyond a subsistence level existence is a major investment. Subsistence level farming means back breaking work, for very little money, which will not be enough for proper health care beyond the bare minimum, schooling that is so below standard that not sending kids to school at all gives a better education (at least then they won't have to undergo nationalistic brainwashing).

I didn't like school at home, but school in Thailand is much worse. Much longer hours - from 8 in the morning to 3 or 4 in the afternoon, terrible rote learning. In the cities the free schools are very violent, rapes and and horrible fights are very common, classes are often 40 to 50 children.

Upcountry the education is terrible.

Private schools give kids a somewhat OK education. International schools worth their name are 10000 US$ a year +++

Let your kids learn muay thai so they won't lose. Let your kids learn to stay safe so they won't get raped. Don't you want your kids to learn what their father have learnt? How can they learn if they are kept overly protected?

[ColPyat]

Let your kids learn muay thai so they won't lose. Let your kids learn to stay safe so they won't get raped. Don't you want your kids to learn what their father have learnt? How can they learn if they are kept overly protected?

Are you drunk, or stoned?

You really have no idea what being a parent means.

[YaiJung]

The more you post, meemiathai, the more you expose of yourself. In your case u seem to be completely out of touch with reality. Maybe one day you will have kids and then your views might change. I really hope so for the sake of your kids, if u ever have any( maybe people like u are better off without). Your spiteful bitterness is another trait that is best not passed on to youth as well.

Thank goodness my father didn't have the same outlook on life as you or I might be ploughing a field somewhere.

[blaze]

I'm quite happy to bring up my children in Private education in Thailand, my view is and always will be that the majority of learning should take place at home. Those that rely upon schools to bring up their children probably do belong back in the West, where this is par for the course.

Having been through one of the better schools in the UK, I wouldn't wish that upon my children apart from the social aspect - UK schools now spend most of their time on helping below average students get better, whilst the other students wait, rather than catering to intelligent, gifted or hard working students. The onus was already on non-competetiveness back when I was in school just over a decade ago, it's now progressed into further PC territory now, with grades getting easier every year and Science and Technical skills falling way to drama, social studies and 'humanities'.

Also children in the UK scare me, seriously.

Which school it is, your responsilbility is to help them live a happy life. Just look at them and see if they are happy! He doesn't have to be a doctor, engineer or lawyer to be happy!

Nothing inheirantly wrong with choosing to be a doctor- or choosing to scrap from the land. But the operative word is 'choosing'. That choice should ideally be dictated by personal preference- not by access to quality education- which most Thais attending public schools will not receive. Nor should it be dictated by a parent's selfish desire to sacrifice the education of his children so that he can continue living in paradise. If as a parent you truly want to help your children 'lead a happy life', then you must provide them with the opportunities to meet what ever goals they, as young adults set for themselves- and that sure doesn't mean carting them off to a Thai public school which are designed to keep the little minds dulled and blindly receptive to authority.

Edited October 8, 2007 by blaze

[jbowman1993]

Yep, decision time! After a few years here I have realised that Thailand and the ever stricter 'rules' and never ending stream of <deleted> from Immigration isnt for me anymore, in fact I am beginning to resent people with the xenophobia so I'm getting out while I still have my sanity, as I dont see things here getting any easier for some of us. Anyone else thinking about making the move 'back home' or somewhere else? If you are thinking about it, post your thoughts here, good or bad, speak your mind and dont worry about the farang rak thai crowd here!

Bye bye Thailand, thanks for the memories good and bad!

Good! More Tom Yum for me!

[jumnien]

While the visa restrictions are getting more severe, the one constant is that the Thai visa you enter the country on, regardless of the type, allows you to exercise your desire to leave Thailand at any time. Hasta la vista, baby!

[Suszzy]

this topic is getting better and better every day

[Oleg_Rus]

TonyClifton - love your post. Superb. no Sarcasm, truly nice.

Having said that... allow me to ask about this subject:

My wife and I are on our way out as well. ...

Now I don't mind going back to paying taxes and cold winters.

For any given 36something-married-to-farang-thai-lady the obvious next step is to leave the country for "better" place. But with all respect, does she know about actual boring life of western world, and what would be her reaction on almost daily problems for her there ? Or just sitting at home and watching day time TV ? Try to get a job?

Man, its nice to have the best from both worlds, but in reality - we don't have that lux'ry.

[meemiathai]

I'm quite happy to bring up my children in Private education in Thailand, my view is and always will be that the majority of learning should take place at home. Those that rely upon schools to bring up their children probably do belong back in the West, where this is par for the course.

Having been through one of the better schools in the UK, I wouldn't wish that upon my children apart from the social aspect - UK schools now spend most of their time on helping below average students get better, whilst the other students wait, rather than catering to intelligent, gifted or hard working students. The onus was already on non-competetiveness back when I was in school just over a decade ago, it's now progressed into further PC territory now, with grades getting easier every year and Science and Technical skills falling way to drama, social studies and 'humanities'.

Also children in the UK scare me, seriously.

Which school it is, your responsilbility is to help them live a happy life. Just look at them and see if they are happy! He doesn't have to be a doctor, engineer or lawyer to be happy!

Nothing inheirantly wrong with choosing to be a doctor- or choosing to scrap from the land. But the operative word is 'choosing'. That choice should ideally be dictated by personal preference- not by access to quality education- which most Thais attending public schools will not receive. Nor should it be dictated by a parent's selfish desire to sacrifice the education of his children so that he can continue living in paradise. If as a parent you truly want to help your children 'lead a happy life', then you must provide them with the opportunities to meet what ever goals they, as young adults set for themselves- and that sure doesn't mean carting them off to a Thai public school which are designed to keep the little minds dulled and blindly receptive to authority.

OK, the kids I teach swimming are happy then. They finish school, they go to have ballet lesson, then music instrument lesson, then drawing lesson, then come to me like a piece of dead meat, I ask them why they come if they didn't like swimming, they tell me because "I have been forced to". Oh then they go home and have to finish their homework. Where is the time to play? Where is the time to socialize with others?

[meemiathai]

The more you post, meemiathai, the more you expose of yourself. In your case u seem to be completely out of touch with reality. Maybe one day you will have kids and then your views might change. I really hope so for the sake of your kids, if u ever have any( maybe people like u are better off without). Your spiteful bitterness is another trait that is best not passed on to youth as well.

Thank goodness my father didn't have the same outlook on life as you or I might be ploughing a field somewhere.

Funny I think the other way round. I think I am just too bloody realistic!

And the "The more you post, meemiathai, the more you expose of yourself", is that not the purpose of posting?

If I have kids, I certainly would teach them not to tell half-stories in a way like you did in the thai farang fight thread.

[ColPyat]

OK, the kids I teach swimming are happy then. They finish school, they go to have ballet lesson, then music instrument lesson, then drawing lesson, then come to me like a piece of dead meat, I ask them why they come if they didn't like swimming, they tell me because "I have been forced to". Oh then they go home and have to finish their homework. Where is the time to play? Where is the time to socialize with others?

That is a parent problem.

The kids i see growing up here are either kids of well off parents - they go to school from 8 am to 4 pm, and then go another two hours to a tuition school.

The kids from poor parents here do and sell drugs when they are 14, by the age of 15 they take part in the illegal motorcycle races. If they are not dead or in jail they calm down when they are 20 something, have a wife and kids and work in one or the other dead end job.

The kids upcountry start working as day labors when they are 14 or 15.

[meemiathai]

OK, the kids I teach swimming are happy then. They finish school, they go to have ballet lesson, then music instrument lesson, then drawing lesson, then come to me like a piece of dead meat, I ask them why they come if they didn't like swimming, they tell me because "I have been forced to". Oh then they go home and have to finish their homework. Where is the time to play? Where is the time to socialize with others?

That is a parent problem.

The kids i see growing up here are either kids of well off parents - they go to school from 8 am to 4 pm, and then go another two hours to a tuition school.

The kids from poor parents here do and sell drugs when they are 14, by the age of 15 they take part in the illegal motorcycle races. If they are not dead or in jail they calm down when they are 20 something, have a wife and kids and work in one or the other dead end job.

The kids upcountry start working as day labors when they are 14 or 15.

I did not realize that there were just 2 different types of people in thailand.

[ColPyat]

I did not realize that there were just 2 different types of people in thailand.

There is a lot of things you do not realize about Thailand. That's why you ludicrously defend of the Thai school system, romanticize poverty, and continuously insult people who do try to make the right choices for their children, so that these children can have a future in which they have they choice over what they will do.

Your proposed options here are, no problem - one can always be happy and poor, and no problem - simply teach kids how to fight and send them to a school where they get no education and have to life in a brutal environment.

[meemiathai]

I did not realize that there were just 2 different types of people in thailand.

There is a lot of things you do not realize about Thailand. That's why you ludicrously defend of the Thai school system, romanticize poverty, and continuously insult people who do try to make the right choices for their children, so that these children can have a future in which they have they choice over what they will do.

Your proposed options here are, no problem - one can always be happy and poor, and no problem - simply teach kids how to fight and send them to a school where they get no education and have to life in a brutal environment.

You have totally mistaken me. Maybe my fault. "mai ben'rai"

[thaiman]

It all boils down to having an income sufficient to overcome the perceived problems you've cited. I assure you that financial independence would make them all go away, including the feeling of not being accepted because you're a foreigner.

words from a wise man and very true

[JimsKnight]

Thats exactly the groove Thaiman, BUT when wives arrive and the flapping stork starts dropping kids It becomes beyond most expats money to get what they had as a kid.

Taking the kids back to blighty is quite a selfless thing to do for an expat I think. Especially if they used to be the sugar daddy made good and liked Thailand.

Raising a child is even more selfless!

But the OP is single? and so this is only one aspect of expats wanting to go home I think.