Read And Write Thai

[tingtong]

I decided that after a few years here, and some learning with the fonetic type style, it is finally time to learn to read and wite thai.

What I like to know, from experience, around how many hours it would be to have a basic understanding of the rules, tones, learn the letters. I am kind of average learner, will like to use 1-1 instruction for this.

A raugh estimate would do from your learning time.

also, might someone know a good, but unexpensive teacher in Bang Bua Thong area?

[DavidHouston]

I believe you are taking the absolutely best approach. Whatever your native Wester language is, Thai sounds are different. This is true for consonants, vowels, and, of course, tones. The best way -- some might say only way -- is with a native teacher. My recommendation is that you go to a local elementary or secondary school and seek out a teacher to teach you after she completes her normal classes. Teachers are vastly underpaid in Thailand (I guess this is true everywhere) and any ecnomic help you can give them through hiring them for special classes will help. School teachers often teach "special classes" for children who are having difficulty in school or who want to get ahead for college admissions. So what you are asking for is not out of the ordinary.

How long will it take to read like a native? I have been at it for many years and I still have a long way to go. (Could be that death preceeds success.) Follow the Buddhist notion: wherever you are on the path is good; just stay on the learning path.

There are a lot of good books in the Thai bookstores. If you want to learn to read and write, then learn like Thai kids do. Let the teacher teach from the texts with which she is familiar. This is not a slam at the excellent texts and approaches created specifically for foreign learners of Thai; but it is an alternative approach you may wish to try.

I wish you the best of luck in your studies.

[tingtong]

thanks for fast reply.

i know to be proficient takes long.

i sort of like to know merely around how many hours i should calculate to learn the basics, rules etc.; ie. to be to able to read/practise by myself also, the time i am not here. maybe with the help of a dictionary.

i will follow your advise, and try some local school near by, for teachers. i am a bit far to Sukhumvit to go there everyday.

i guess the Mrs can do the translation, unfortunately for some reason she isnt help much to learn...might afraid i will understand too much?

[Acquiesce]

thanks for fast reply.

i know to be proficient takes long.

i sort of like to know merely around how many hours i should calculate to learn the basics, rules etc.; ie. to be to able to read/practise by myself also, the time i am not here. maybe with the help of a dictionary.

i will follow your advise, and try some local school near by, for teachers. i am a bit far to Sukhumvit to go there everyday.

i guess the Mrs can do the translation, unfortunately for some reason she isnt help much to learn...might afraid i will understand too much?

About 180 hours class time with a good teacher and some practice on your own outside of classes.

[Oswulf]

I agree with Acquiesce that about 180 hours class time will get you started with reading and writing, but even after this time reading will be painfully slow, and writing full of mistakes. You'll need a lot more study before you can read things such as newspapers.

If you're sufficiently motivated, an alternative would be to learn on your own. The AUA Reading and Writing textbooks are pretty good for self-study. Both are available cheaply (about 200 Baht each if memory serves me right) from AUA in Rajadamri.

[tingtong]

thank you for the answers.

i was thinking a bit less hours, so good to get some opinions.

i am not good to learn by myself, not thai at least. i guess the motivation would miss, even if i knw i should learn. wife speaks reasonable good english, and in the same time not that helpful in my studies.

[gampaan]

One bit of advice i would give is to be sure to practice a little everyday, not just alot on weekends or something.

Once you learn the alphabet, I thought reading was pretty easy actually. Thai is basically a phonetic language, so if you can learn the vowels and letters, you can read more than you can understand. My wife will ask me to read something and she'll say oh good, what does it mean...? Um...

Vocabulary will come quicker then also...

[longway]

I decided that after a few years here, and some learning with the fonetic type style, it is finally time to learn to read and wite thai.

What I like to know, from experience, around how many hours it would be to have a basic understanding of the rules, tones, learn the letters. I am kind of average learner, will like to use 1-1 instruction for this.

A raugh estimate would do from your learning time.

also, might someone know a good, but unexpensive teacher in Bang Bua Thong area?

may i recommend david smythe's book for beginner's thai. i forget the exact name. i thought his approach to learning the thai alphabet was excellent. he seems to have been able to structure the lessons in such a way there is an almost painless progression from knowing a few letters to knowing the whole alphabet and the rules.

i dont even think you need a teacher.

i reckon you could get through the learning the thai script sections of his book in 40 hours (or less). I finished his book last year, although my reading is still slow (and sometimes painful) , i can decipher most thai words now.

looking at the other posts i wonder if i have been too optimistic in my timeline. however i do believe that once you finish that book you will have the groundwork you need to learn to read thai, writing i think i another matter. there are just too many symbols with the same sound and even class to know which one to use. if there was someway to figure that out it would be a great help.

like you i learnt phonetically before i learnt the script and i think that makes a big difference to the speed at which you will progress.

hope this helps

Edited October 5, 2007 by longway

[meadish_sweetball]

Learn the tones properly from the start.

Learn what separates a word from another, in the rules of Thai. When people write that 'mai' can mean 5 different things in Thai depending on the spelling, they do not understand how Thai actually works. There are clear distinctions between these words that are not visible when you try to write them out like 'mai'. If you do not hear these distinctions now, you will have to practice until you do.

Your own ears and brain will not be sufficient in the beginning - they will in fact actively try to trick you into fitting Thai words into the framework of your own language.

You need to be taught what to listen for - what aspects are important for separating one word from another. Then when you know, you can start to make the distinctions in your own speech. This is where a native Thai is needed - they can correct you when you mispronounce something.

Each and every syllable in Thai has a tone. Make sure you pay attention to this in every single word you pronounce, and don't just rush through the word's letters thinking that sounding out the letters will give you the correct pronunciation. It won't - it will at best be an approximation.

If you do not realize this from the start, you will be forced to at some point in the future, and at that stage you will have to relearn lots of words you thought you "knew".

[tingtong]

If you do not realize this from the start, you will be forced to at some point in the future, and at that stage you will have to relearn lots of words you thought you "knew".

One of the main reason i think it is time to learn, 'cos with the phonetic way some teacher write one way, some another. So far, i had had 2 teachers in the past, both spelled a bit different.

I think being able to read myself would dissolve this problem.

One good thing thai is phonetic, just my own language, however i think the most difficult for me to recognize the 5 tones, as we( and many other languages) dont have such.

"like you i learnt phonetically before i learnt the script and i think that makes a big difference to the speed at which you will progress."

longway, exactly this is my motivation.

otherwise, i am ok reading Bangkok Post, not sure i will change that habbit

big thanks to all for your advise.

[realthaideal]

I'm with everybody else here - it's the best way. And it frees you up to learn more and more Thai wherever you are because suddenly you can read everything everywhere - except you never realized how hard some fonts are to get used to before (this must be true for those learning English with its multitude of silly fonts as well!).

I learned by first going to a school supply store that kids go to and buying myself the giant wall posters of the alphabet -Gor-Gai, and then the vowel sets poster, which is arranged very logically.

Having them up and looking at them every day is part of the learning. Then copying them over and over again is also important - and writing them from the proper starting point as well- bottom up in most cases, which at times will feel counterintuitive.

You will see that many letters have names that are words you already know, so you can learn them super fast. Honestly, with just about ten letters and 3-4 vowels you'd be surprised how easily you can start to sound out Thai words. This is the same principal as the game show back in the USA 'Wheel of Fortune.' Contestants often have revealed to them a few of the letters for the word puzzle, but somehow, somewhere in the brain they figure out what it is supposed to be. Some part of this will allow you to pick up patterns and learn letters and vowels on the fly as you are actually doing, not just 'studying' which can be tedious at times.

And don't be put of by the people who complain about the 43 letters and 20-something vowels. If we made a list of all the English vowels and vowel patterns with respect to their actual sounds we'd likely have even more than they do - and we employ them very inconsistently. Thai applications are very consistent with respect to the sounds they make. And as for the letters, you don't need about 5 of them. Then there are a few other which very rarely appear. Again, like Wheel of Fortune, there are a specific set of most frequently occurring ones you need to catch on to right away and then you are ready to start 'solving the puzzle.' Go in with the frame of mind that it's much easier than you've been led to believe. Good luck.

[kriswillems]

An average student needs about 180 classroom hours (and probably much more hours studying at home). A very good student could do with 60 classroom hours (and a lot of home-work).

I found it easier to study Thai with the books for Thai children (pratom 1-6), that don't have any phonetic script, than with the books for foreigners.

The books for foreigners are good to get to know some grammar and to learn the tone rules, but they are not good for learning to read because it's just too easy to focus on the phonetic script instead of the Thai language. You've to think in "Thai script" to read and write Thai and try to forget the phonetic script (which is often a blocking factor).

[JaiRawnNitNoi]

I have enjoyed reading this thread. I worked with a tutor (1:1) and over 40 hours (20 two hour sessions) we had essentially covered all the consonant and vowel sounds and tone rules. From that point on it was a matter of applicaton with the help of native speaker and my tutor. But 200 hours or so sounds reasonable to reach a modest level of early competence. I don't claim that level of skill for myself, I think it really will be years of practice for me to really internalize the tone rules, but I can roughly sound out most words.

I have been thinking about something for a while and want to raise it here, although I don't mean to hijack this thread. I believe in the power of "sight reading", fluent readers simply recognize words and pronounce them in thier minds and understand thier meaning. I teach English and there are many "key word lists" available for use in flash cards, etc. I routinely teach a "200 word list" that is essentially a robust vocabulary for a Primary 2 reader and it is very, very powerful when the kids get it as it represents something like 60% of the vocabulary in many primary level texts. They are inevitably a bit biased (my list uses "America" as the only country!) but I think you get my point.

So my question (as a novice Thai language reader) is: "Is there a word list available for the 200 words used most commonly in Thai writing?". I would appreciate any links or guidance on this. My intent would be to make flash cards to start to enhance recognition and build a basic vocabulary of Thai words.

[boxig]

In "Basic Thai Lessons" ebook there are two great chapter about Thai script. Both are very easy to learn because they don't use the orthodox teaching system. The ebook is part of "SpokenThai" learning kit (you can find it in ThaiVisa store).

box

[realthaideal]

"I have been thinking about something for a while and want to raise it here, although I don't mean to hijack this thread. I believe in the power of "sight reading", fluent readers simply recognize words and pronounce them in thier minds and understand thier meaning. I teach English and there are many "key word lists" available for use in flash cards, etc. I routinely teach a "200 word list" that is essentially a robust vocabulary for a Primary 2 reader and it is very, very powerful when the kids get it as it represents something like 60% of the vocabulary in many primary level texts."

Good point. I have been noticing this alot lately. First off, a yr ago I worked for Thai property company and did alot of translation -which was a royal pain in the bum to do! - for their website with property listings. So I had to read alot of Thai, but all in one major context -Real Estate. Instead of just using my skills for kids' books or signs along the rode when I drive, I was forced to read and think, and had to do alot every day. I was not qualified to translate, but I could read alright, and the Thais sure couldn't translate to good English advertising copy, so it all fell on me. Needless to say I got exposed to alot of words over n over. Now, when I cruise down the street or pop open a book some words just click without a thought at all. Just automatic. Feels great. I notice it with only a few words though 100 ? 200 ? Not sure. Maybe twice that. SOme day the reading should be as automatic as English, but I bet that's after a good 5-10 yrs of reading, and reading all manner of things as well. But I notice the forced work I did - hey, I was essentially paid to learn Thai (not much!!) - has benefited me well. I'm finally reaching a new increase in abilities after feeling on a plateau for a loooong time.

[bhoydy]

Each and every syllable in Thai has a tone. Make sure you pay attention to this in every single word you pronounce, and don't just rush through the word's letters thinking that sounding out the letters will give you the correct pronunciation. It won't - it will at best be an approximation.

If you do not realize this from the start, you will be forced to at some point in the future, and at that stage you will have to relearn lots of words you thought you "knew".

Very, very, very good point. Had i known that b4 i learned the whole alphabet i wouldn't be thinking about relearning the whole alphabet now

[johk]

RealThaiDeal called it- get a big ก ไก่ poster and hang it as close to your desk as possible. It helps for learning consonant classes and alphabetical order.

I found it was a lot faster to learn to read than I expected, but writing more than a few short sentences still drives me to the dictionary because I can't remember proper spelling. I am not exactly a spelling champ in my native English, so your experience may be different.

Thais get very creative with the printed word and some fonts are hard to make out while you are still learning. Don't let that worry you- just start on easy fonts. The more abstract type styles will come by themselves. In my experience, the opposite is true for handwriting. Whenever someone showed me how they write, it helped me remember and improved my legibility. Try to get as many people as possible to write what you are writing.

JaiRawn- good point about reading quickly. I gotta start working on that. Thanks

[lokyluky]

It´s possible to learn the alphabet very quickly using the book "60 minutes to learn the thai alphabet" - its available at easythaialphabet. I was able to learn the letters and classes very quickly using this system.

[flying]

Can someone briefly explain those 2 charts I see.

One is the consonants I guess & one the vowels?

Is the pictures like the Eggs & the chicken, jars etc. suppose

to remind you of the shape of the letter or the sound?

I looked at that "60 minutes to learn the thai alphabet" Ebook

It seems good but uses different pictures so I wondered if the principal was the same?

If so I would probably want to go with the original in case I later find a teacher.

All very confusing at this point

Thanks for any tips

[realthaideal]

"Is the pictures like the Eggs & the chicken, jars etc. suppose

to remind you of the shape of the letter or the sound?

I looked at that "60 minutes to learn the thai alphabet" Ebook

It seems good but uses different pictures so I wondered if the principal was the same?"

I can't speak for the 60 min's book, but I do know the Thai alphabet chart, which we all refer to as the gor-gai. In the sense that alphabet comes from the first two letters, alpha n beta, off the Greek alphabet, the name gor-gai is named for just the first character of the Thai alphabet. And as some kids are taught to learn to associate a word with each letter in English, eg A is for Apple, B is for Banana, the Thai alphabet does the same. So when you say Gor-Gai, you are saying Gor (the letter) which is associated with the object Gai (a chicken). Oftentimes Gor is written as 'Kor' but this is another issue and points to the fact that you ought to seek some instruction in the beginning to understand some basic rules about what sounds the letters represent and how they may change depending where in the word they occur. YOu will also see very quickly all the trouble with ever trying to write Thai phonetically in English!

So short answer: Gor is for Gai/ Chicken. Kor is Khai / Egg. Kor is for Kuat/ Bottle. etc. Each letter has an associated word to help you learn it.

This will also help you learn quite a few useful words.... and a handful of ones you never have to use.

Go for it, dude!!

[lokyluky]

the system that is used in general, gaw gai, isn´t intended to help you memorise the alphabet, but simply gives a word that begins with the particular consonant. the system in the 60 minutes to learn the thai alphabet book direcltly helps an english speaking person to quickly memorise the letters.

it will help you to read a lot faster than that chart that they use with thai children which is absolutely of no use to a foreigner - as relevant as an alphabet chart in primary school, showing that "a" is apple, "b" is banana etc. the other system in the downloadable book is a system to help you remember the letters quickly, and thats what will make the real difference.

[flying]

Thank You for the replies.

I am having a lot of fun with this. I started trying about a month now

just learning audios like Pimsleurs & that made me think.......

Maybe I should learn as I did English as a child & start with the alphabet.

Thanks Again

Mike

PS: I will be back in Chiang Mai next week

Is it easy to find these charts? I would love to bring one back home too.

Edited October 7, 2007 by flying

[kokesaat]

More on word recognition: I've been reading (trying to read) "The Story of Tongdaeng", the King's pet dog. When I first started, I thought I'd never get the hang of difficult words like พระบาทสมเด็จพระเจ้าิอยู่หัว, but after seeing the same word over and over again in the text, it's became automatic. It's sort of like typing "Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country" over and over again.....pretty soon, you don't think about it.

It's a bit tedious learning some of the King's vocabulary, but overall the book is not too difficult to understand......AND, there's an English translation of each page.

Has anyone by chance read ความสุกของกะทิ? I'm thinking it might be a good follow-on book if'n'when I ever finish ทองแดง

[realthaideal]

"PS: I will be back in Chiang Mai next week

Is it easy to find these charts? I would love to bring one back home too."

Hey Mike

Not sure where you're coming from, but these carts are everywhere throughout Thld. Most every school supply place will have them, along with all kinds of other cool posters with names of plants, fish, fruits, etc. Just like all kids get to learn stuff.

In CM there's a good supply place just around the perimeter of Tanin Mkt, up on Chang Puak/ Chotana, North of the city, or you can goto Suriwong Book Center, or on Chang Klan, just past a 7-11, and a little bit diaganol to Central Hospital, there's another place with school supplies - including 10,000 pens that you wouldn't want to write with. That's just three off the top of me head! There's plenty more around the city.

And as far as TongDaeng goes, forgot I had a copy and haven't given it a go in a couple yrs. Now that I read so much better I'm gonna hit it this week. Good idea.

BTW, along the same lines, most of these supply places will also have series of books like Aesop's Fables in Thai n Eng and they make handy little books to learn by as well. I got a series of like 20+ books for a few hundred baht. You leanr some good words in them too.

[flying]

Hey Mike

Not sure where you're coming from, but these carts are everywhere throughout Thld.

Hey thanks for the tip!

I will print your post & take it with me.

Thanks again!

Mike

[flying]

Just a update to say thanks again.

That suriwong is a great place.

I got the charts & some books. Then for some reason

I let the sales guy talk me into a Cyberdict 10 said it would help.

But now that I am home I see it is not good for learning Thai. I can see it is great

for learning english though

Anyway I guess I can sell it.

Other than that thanks again realthaideal that was a great tip.

Now I have to get going & learn this alphabet so I can better speak with my

future inlaws ;-)

Thanks

Mike

[Tod Daniels]

Something I will add although it may be slightly off this topic;

I wanted to learn to read with higher comprehension, although I can read most things if I take the time.

I found that typing/transcribing thai from published books, (albeit children's books) into a Word document was the best thing I could do to increase my recognition in written vocabulary. The keyboard set up in thai to put it mildly is 'rather unique' with some frequently used characters in obscure rarely used areas of the keyboard for people used to typing english (ข, ช, ล, ผ as examples). How many times does a person type a dash, an equal sign, a right bracket, or the letter z in english typing?

Initially learning to type/transcribe was very labor intensive. I'd see the first character of the first word in a book, hunt around the keyboard a minute for it and move on. Now after typing just a couple times a week I've almost got type by touch down and can type more words from memory every day. The keyboard is becoming second nature and the auto correct ability to change vowels if you mis-type is great. Now using the shift function and reaching out of the way characters is becoming easier each time I type. Additionally, my pc seems to have a pretty good spell checker built into Word, and catches simple mistakes well.

As was mentioned in a previous thread; people learn to read competently in their native language by recognizing letter patterns which make up common words. Once they have that down they do not sound out words letter by letter anymore.

In my opinion the typing/transcribing of printed materials in thai has been the biggest adjunct in increasing my ability to recognize written words far easier, gave me a better sense of sentence structure and increased my vocabulary as well.

Edited November 15, 2007 by tod-daniels

[bow]

I learnt basic reading and writing in about 120 hours:

40 hours of classroom studying, one-to-one, with a Thai teacher, plus about 80 hours of homework (mainly practising to write the letters).

Of course, I then discovered that my Thai vocabulary was so small that I could only read very basic texts.

Secondly, that my understanding of Thai grammar was so bad that I often did not understand the meaning of a sentence, even if I understood all the words in it.

But, please, do not misunderstand me, I do recommend everybody to learn to read and write Thai. It adds a new dimension to your life in Thailand.

[tingtong]

a bit update on me.

i took the recommendation, and so far spent around 15 hours one-on-one . it is fun to learn, but need much more time to practise before I really can say that i am able to write/read.

anyway, working on it

[thaipete]

I learnt a lot from the old 50's classic 'The basic fundamentals of the Thai language' but although I can read it moderatly well when I found there were 18 final consonants of D I gave up trying to write it apart from my name and address and a few funny jokes