Thai Embassy In Vientiane Horror Story

[george]

Striving to be the very worst

From The Nation 2004-08-07

The consular section at the Thai Embassy in Vientiane is achieving standards that may one day serve as a template for bureaucracies around the world striving for higher levels of incompetence.

Visa applications at the consular section are accepted from 8.30am up until about 11.45am. I arrived at around 10am, filled out the visa application and handed the form, the required photocopies, photographs and my passport to the man sitting behind a table at about 10.15am.

The job of the man behind the table was to keep his seat warm and make sure that the pile of passports mounting up on the table was kept in a neat pile.

It was a duty he performed with great acumen and skill.

Around 11am, a lady appeared with a small basket filled with bits of paper, cardboard and plastic disks with non-sequential numbers scribbled on them.

The anticipation of the 60 people forced into a small outdoor shelter in the consulate grounds by a wickedly hot day rose as the lady sat down at the table with the pile of passports.

Noticing the passports were not as neatly arranged as they could be, she began rearranging and shuffling them like a deck of cards, completely negating the order in which they were placed.

The end result was that if you arrived at 8.30 when the consular section opened, or at 10am when I arrived, or at 11am ... or whenever, it was no longer relevant.

It was now a lottery.

The lady with the basket hummed into action, picking up each passport, then attaching a number to it with a paper clip and giving a corresponding number to the owner of the passport.

The passport’s owner was then required to take that number inside the consulate building and pay the visa application fee, then return the next day to pick up the passport and visa.

Things were rolling along apace until about 11.10am, when the lady suddenly stopped, picked up her basket, now about half full of passports, got up from behind the table and strolled back inside the consulate, leaving about 20 passports, including mine, on the table.

Those of us remaining – most of whom were locals – waited patiently for her return.

At about 11.45am she wandered back with her basket and continued to do what she was doing before she wandered off for no apparent reason 35 minutes beforehand.

After attaching numbers to a few passports, she suddenly discovered that there were now no more left to attach.

Duh!

Bear in mind that these numbers had been written on ends torn from shoe boxes, embossed into plastic disks like locker-key numbers, scribbled on bits of brown corrugated cardboard and so on. They had no numerical sequence. More numbers could have simply been written on bits of paper torn from a notebook and would have served the same purpose – to be presented to the cashier so it could be written on the receipt.

This dilemma precipitated a crisis meeting between the four staff members behind the table, whose combined lack of intellect and inability to grasp the simplest of logic in order to come up with a rational solution was award-winning.

A solution was finally reached, but it was a solution of such ignorance, stupidity and thoughtlessness for others that it left me gob-smacked.

The lady started handing back the passports to the 15 or so people left, many of whom had arrived well before my 10am arrival time, and told them to come back and reapply “tomorrow”.

(“Tomorrow” was a Friday, and with the upcoming long weekend it would mean that the passports could not be picked up until the following Tuesday.)

Conscious of not raising my voice or losing my temper I protested. The staff – who were Lao – looked at me in near shock, before recoiling like three-year-olds who had just been scolded.

Realising my protests were useless there, I went inside the consular section building to complain but was promptly ignored by the three staff. I continued haranguing (again making sure not to raise my voice) until one of the Thai staff finally spoke, accusing me of being a liar, and telling me that I didn’t arrive until 11.45am and that was why my passport and application were not accepted.

After biting my tongue, I continued my verbal protest and insisted that I was not going anywhere until they accepted my passport and application as I had done everything correctly.

The Thai staffer finally gave in – probably because it was nearly lunchtime – and took my passport and visa fee.

Another staff member duly scrawled a receipt for the passport and visa fee before thrusting it at me like a dagger.

I won!

Nah nah nah nah!

I thanked them and left.

The other foreigner who was in the same boat as me had left without a fight.

A few locals who followed me into the consular section building were promptly ordered out. Their plans for a long weekend in Thailand to visit friends and relatives were ruined by employees of the Thai Embassy with the logic of a fish.

Phil Andrews

--The Nation 2004-08-07

[The Coder]

I can sympathize as I have had many similar experiences there. I think the root problem is they don't adjust their capacity to meet demand. There are no guarantees if you show at 9am that you'll make the 11:45am cutoff. It seems they have a certain number of passports they can process in one day and stop when they reach this quota. The most absurd case is on one occasion they ran out of numbers around 10am. They made 100+ people wait in the sun for nearly two hours and about noon made a very conspicuous announcement they were not accepting any more, relying on the grapevine to pass the bad news to all those waiting!!!

Another capacity issue is they continue to operate out of just one window with one staffer and unbelievably have only beefed up staff to manage the ever growing lines of people! So you have a giant queue of people waiting in the morning to pass in their passports and a giant queue of people waiting in the afternoon to receive them. Invariably, some people who go to the window have time consuming issues to take care of which just adds to the logjam and makes everyone else wait longer.

There are Laos guys loitering outside who will wait in line for you for 1000 baht or more. But is it really wise to trust some average joe in flip flops with your passport and paying them such an absurd fee, in advance too? I see a lot of people going for their service.

Another thing I see is Laos guys showing up with a bulk amount of passports, perhaps from a hotel in either box or large folder. They ignore the line, go right up to the window as if the quantity gives them more importance and for some reason, the staff processes all the passports straight away every time! This just adds to the wait of everyone who shows up early and adds uncertainty as to whether they will make the cutoff.

But what can you do? The staff there does not seem to care and there seems nowhere to provide any constructive feedback on the unnecessary aggravation of so many every day.

[Up2U]

In Kuala Lumpur are a mixture of Thai and malaysian staff (or anyway, one can make oneself understood in Thai, Bahasa Meleyu or English).

In Singapore it is a similar pattern.

At both Consulate Visa Sections all the staff are quick, courteous, efficient.

So only use Vientiane and Phnom Phen if you really must. (And the tales that can be told about PP visa section .....)

[Begs]

Another thing I see is Laos guys showing up with a bulk amount of passports, perhaps from a hotel in either box or large folder. They ignore the line, go right up to the window as if the quantity gives them more importance and for some reason, the staff processes all the passports straight away every time!

Well i know what i would do, find out what hotel he works this service from, and stay there.

[ayakiawe]

"chicken brain" my friend calls this!

I think they have it over the Indonesians but not by much.

Owak ca ca ca ca!

[Whiplash]

Yet another example of intelligence deficiency prominent in many Thais as mentioned in an earlier topic on this board.

One can marvel at the reason of this.. due to poor education quality, or a genetic fault.. ?

*Sigh*

[frond]

The Thai consulate in Vientianne is a f******* joke.

I went there last year the day before the visa fee was to be raised. Glad to know they're still keeping up their high standards there!

I sat at a rickety wooden table, gave all my documents to apply for a Non-Imm B to a guy in flipflops surrounded by a band of lowclass mafia wannabes, and watched what he did. He took my papers and shuffled them underneath a stack of magazines he was holding. After he examined my passport--for what?--he gave it back to me. I said, "And the papers, please." He acted like he didn't know what I was talking about!! After asking firmly he produced them. He also told me I wouldn't get my Non-Imm B visa and that if I went through his "agency" they would get for me!

At 11:30 am, after being in line for an hour and with approximately 20 people in front of me, a Lao man walked up and down the line laughing at everyone. Other ***holes came by and and offered to get the visas for us at high prices. All of a sudden they started pushing people back to close the doors! That was it.

I decided to inquire for a "through the backdoor visa"--I had to settle for a tourist visa at twice the price. "Uncle Sompat" literally took my visa to the backdoor of the consulate and gave it to a consular official (or was it the janitor?). Next day I got the visa and made my way back to BKK.

As far as I know the one in Phnom Penh is just as bad.

Penang will probably stop issuing Non-Imm B visas since now they're just about the only place in Asia where you can get one without people laughing in your face and shutting the door.

And the Thai govt wonders why people work illegally here!?!?!?

These consulates are obviously "manned" by a person on a little power trip. They've got their little bit of Thailand on foreign soil and they rule it like a dictator. It has nothing to do with visas...and all to do with bad management, bureaucracy, and one SMALL MIND!

[Begs]

Yet another example of intelligence deficiency prominent in many Thais as mentioned in an earlier topic on this board.

One can marvel at the reason of this.. due to poor education quality, or a genetic fault.. ?

*Sigh*

If the Farang was so smart, why does he not stay in the hotel where the guy that takes the passports getting immediate results works.

Sometimes Farangs are so stupid, they deserve to stand in the sun for 4 hours.

These Visa agents supply a service, you can use it if you want and they will get your visa without you standing in the queue, if you want to stand in the sun melting for 4 hours then do nothing but moan about it, UP TO YOU.

I would pay.

[meadish_sweetball]

In Kuala Lumpur are a mixture of Thai and malaysian staff (or anyway, one can make oneself understood in Thai, Bahasa Meleyu or English).

In Singapore it is a similar pattern.

At both Consulate Visa Sections all the staff are quick, courteous, efficient.

So only use Vientiane and Phnom Phen if you really must. (And the tales that can be told about PP visa section .....)

I have never been to KL, they may be great, but the woman who receives applications at the Singapore embassy is the most stuck-up clerk I have ever ran across. She told me there was no way she would issue a 60-day tourist visa for me, since I had had two made during the course of the same year. My flight to Singapore was thus largely in vain. I had never seen that rule anywhere before, and according to what I have heard afterwards, it seems to be enforced quite arbitrarily. Please note that I was not rude to her or anybody else in any way, did not act big-headed or imposing at all. Anyone who knows me will know that I am as soft-spoken and calm as they come. How did I dress? In slacks and a shirt.

I will never use the services of the Singapore embassy again. When I went to Vientiane, I was treated really nicely by the staff, but there were two foreigners there who treated the staff like dirt. Maybe there is a point where the staff start to hate westerners because of how common this attitude is (in my dealings with embassies and Immigration in and out of Thailand, there is in 50 % of the cases always somebody who wears beach clothes or treats the staff as if they were their personal slaves.)

Anyway, if the story is 100 % true, it seems like they could do with a little 'structural reorganisation' at the embassy up in Vientiane.

[Up2U]

I have never been to KL, they may be great, but the woman who receives applications at the Singapore embassy is the most stuck-up clerk I have ever ran across. She told me there was no way she would issue a 60-day tourist visa for me, since I had had two made during the course of the same year.

Was this the woman in the Islamic dress?

I went in, queued and got to the counter. Found I'd left my photos in the hotel. She told me to go fetch, and kept the rest of the doc's. When I got back I hadn't enough Sing Dollars for the fee - so had to dash across the road to a money-changer.

She was laughing fit to bust when I finally got my act together.

Then next day I had to go back and pick up the passport with visa - she had mine to one side, ready and waiting at 2 o'clock.

(In KL one picks up the completed passport / visa at the gate, but in Singers the staff work both morning and afternoon.)

[astral]

Sounds like a job for one of those "new Ambassadors" that Taksin has just appointed.

In the meantime, why don't you drop a line to the Foreign Affairs dept, detailing your experiences with date and time, and see what they have to say.

Obviously the system(?) there is flawed, and by the sound of it the man power is insufficient. MFA should be made aware of what is happening.

[dotcom]

"I decided to inquire for a "through the backdoor visa"--I had to settle for a tourist visa at twice the price. "Uncle Sompat" literally took my visa to the backdoor of the consulate and gave it to a consular official (or was it the janitor?). "

The above encapsulates the problem & the solution. All Thais expect to be bribed for what is essentially a free service. They pretend to be incompetent but a folded note between ones fingers will bring amazingly swift focus of attention. The lethargy the vacant stare disappear. Ka-Ching!!! Next victim Please !!!

P.S. I have used Singapore & Penang in the past. In both places Applications are accepted in the mornings & passports are handed back the following afternoon. NO EXCEPTIONS !! Why do people go to Cambodia & Laos? Answer: Because they are cheap. If you get ######ed over there it is your own fault. Grow up & play the game.

[threelegcowboy]

All,

A few months ago I used the Thai Embassy in Vientiane and had great results. The vendor visa stands out front were all gone and the visa business folks were getting few takers. The embassy processed about 300 people that morning.

The next day pickup was just as easy.

My take on the current situation is that it was too efficent. It worked but the locals were not making the money. So the slowdown has come and probally from top management in Vienteane.

Good luck on getting anything changed.

LLL

[rod_kalashnikov]

 

[Hurricane51]

George, I understand your frustration. While I can't comment on this specific process, I've observed that Thailand is a country where the "obvious" can be deceptive, especially to a farang. What we perceive to be a disorganized, chaotic mess might actually have specific procedures and functions, defined by a senior office functionary. Remember, there is an entire cultural structure in place at all Thai businesses (government office included), where change cannot simply be implemented without risk of loss of face. The problem MIGHT be obvious to the embassy office staff, but change is fraught with peril to them. And since it is farangs and other foreigners who are being inconvenienced, my guess is that change will come ONLY from upper-level administrators.

If you are used to highly organized systems, where every process is analyzed for improvements in efficiency, then Thailand will surely frustrate you. But the solutions are simple: you plan for the WORST that can happen, you use some baksheesh, or you avoid Thailand.

So...take the gamble and use a proxy, or prepare for frustration.

[arthsch]

sorry, about your bad experiences in vientiane. but in this case it was your fault. we all had to learn, how it works. you have to learn it too. there are several things in the visa office, what we dont like - to wait in the sun, without shelter, aso. the staff are lao-citizens, and always friendly and helpful. you did'nt win - they let you win. don't be worry, be happy, farang! arthsch

[KevinN]

Another thing I see is Laos guys showing up with a bulk amount of passports, perhaps from a hotel in either box or large folder. They ignore the line, go right up to the window as if the quantity gives them more importance and for some reason, the staff processes all the passports straight away every time!

Well i know what i would do, find out what hotel he works this service from, and stay there.

It has been a few years since I have been to laos for a visa but I did get 2 60 day visas in a row there, And 1 non "O",But I have never been up to the front door.

I went to the tables out front gave my paperwork and request to one of the guys there along with 1000 baht, went back about 1 block to my hotel and the next morning they came with my visa.

No way would I stand in line out there and fight the weather for 1000 baht.

[Rhys]

Actually the folks at Penang are pretty good.. especially the fee for service agents.. Quick fast no hassles..

[The Gentleman Scamp]

This isn't welcome news.

Due to a series of unfortunate events, late information and bad timing, I arrived here from England last May on a tourist visa and have so far done two Poi Pet runs with Jack's Golf Tours.

I had been planning on going to Vientiene with all the relevant paperwork to get my 3 month visa this month as I am uneasy about building up a collection of 30 day stamps.

I don't need the hassle, would I be better off going to Penang?

[Foggy Bottom]

If the Farang was so smart, why does he not stay in the hotel where the guy that takes the passports getting immediate results works.

Sometimes Farangs are so stupid, they deserve to stand in the sun for 4 hours.

These Visa agents supply a service, you can use it if you want and they will get your visa without you standing in the queue, if you want to stand in the sun melting for 4 hours then do nothing but moan about it, UP TO YOU.

I would pay.

Because to do so is a direct support of CORRUPTION

So, I take it Begs that you are in favour of the Thai Diplomatic Service working in other countries, showing citizens of other countries just how corrupt and anti-farang the Thai government really is?

That of course is going to do wonders for the tourism industry and inward investment incentives that TRT wants to use to pay for all of Thaksin's big money projects.

Your comment proves you are as short sighted and non-thinking as the staff at the Vientiane consulate .... perhaps you are from the same family as them?

Those "agents" probably have a "contract" with the consular staff and these delays and problems are made by the consular staff in the hope that the consulate's customers will use the agents. The agents probably then share their fees with the THAI GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES (or more correctly - PUBLIC SERVANTS) - unfortunately they are not serving the public in this story, they are only serving their own wallets.

Is this really how you want the world to see your country and your people?

Now that it's been printed in the Nation, it will probably be reprinted in western newspapers, or picked up and broadcast by BBC or Star World etc.

[Begs]

Is this really how you want the world to see your country and your people?

Now that it's been printed in the Nation, it will probably be reprinted in western newspapers, or picked up and broadcast by BBC or Star World etc.

Oh my God, please dont let the forgien press read about how a farang stands in the sunshine to get a visa cos he is too mean to spend 1000 Baht..lol, hahaha

I am sure Tourists will boycott Thailand forever for that.

US and British troops are shooting Iraqis today and yesterday and the day before, you really think anybody cares about what happens in a queue for a visa?

Get real.

[Foggy Bottom]

P.S. I have used Singapore & Penang in the past. In both places Applications are accepted in the mornings & passports are handed back the following afternoon. NO EXCEPTIONS !! Why do people go to Cambodia & Laos? Answer: Because they are cheap. If you get ######ed over there it is your own fault. Grow up & play the game.

I can think of several reasons that have nothing to do with being cheap.

If you live and work in Chiang Mai / Chiang Rai / Udon Thani / Nong Khai etc. then Vientiane is between an hour's drive and an hour's flight away - why cross 20 degrees of latitude to get to Penang or KL, or even more to get to Singapore.

The same applies to expats with businesses in the South Eastern Provinces or along the Buriram - Ubon corridor - Cambodia is faster for some, Laos for others.

When you live, work, and maybe own a company in a location only one hour away from a consulate, why should you have to go to the other end of the sub-continent? Time is money when you own a business, and being away only 2 nights is far more preferable to being away for 4. Of course the really sensible will make the neccesary arrangements to legally qualify for annual renewals in-country, but there may be times when something causes an out-of-country renewal or re-application (such as changing employer has done to some in the past).

Get your head out of your sphincter dotcom, and look beyond the Bangkok Metropolitan Boundary - there's a big wide world out there.

[Begs]

Because to do so is a direct support of CORRUPTION

So if you get stopped by a Traffic cop in Thailand, and it was a case of giving him 200 Baht for your wrong doing and driving away, or, Making your way to the Police Station, paying a fine of 500 baht, then making your way back again, what option would you take?

Yea i thought so, you see, selective corruption appeals to you.

Live with it.

[Begs]

Those "agents" probably have a "contract" with the consular staff and these delays and problems are made by the consular staff in the hope that the consulate's customers will use the agents. The agents probably then share their fees with the THAI GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES

Jeeez, not much gets past you does it?

lol.....

[Foggy Bottom]

Is this really how you want the world to see your country and your people?

Now that it's been printed in the Nation, it will probably be reprinted in western newspapers, or picked up and broadcast by BBC or Star World etc.

Oh my God, please dont let the forgien press read about how a farang stands in the sunshine to get a visa cos he is too mean to spend 1000 Baht..lol, hahaha

I am sure Tourists will boycott Thailand forever for that.

US and British troops are shooting Iraqis today and yesterday and the day before, you really think anybody cares about what happens in a queue for a visa?

Get real.

In many ways Begshinawattra, you are right, but sooooooo wrong in your lack of understanding of the west and of farangs generally.

We are now into August - which in western Europe and North America is called the "Silly Season by the media there. They call it that because the parliaments are closed for the summer recesses, the scholls, colleges, universities are closed, and many industries shut down for fixed periods to give "common" holidays to the workers - it's the origin of the term "tourism high season" - so many people on holiday at the same time.

Because it is media silly season, they have a shortage of stories to fill the newspapers and broadcast news programmes - at this time of year they LOVE stories like this because it allows them to send surplus reporters off to do some investigating and reporting.

So yes, despite Iraq etc. there is a high probability this story will find it's way into the western press - even if I have to submit it myself because of attitudes like yours - I am a Thai registered Foreign Correspondent resident in the kingdom, and like many, I too need to find extra stories at this time of year.

[Begs]

Is this really how you want the world to see your country and your people?

Tell me something, how do people see the people of your Country?

You farang are always moaning, i am sure you people could pay for an agent to do the legwork for you and relax in the Hotel like KevinN did, and like i would.

But if you did that, what would you have to Moan about eh?

Make the best out of the bad just laugh it off.

You didn't have to come here anyway,

So remember, every picture tells a story don't it.

R Stewart.

[Foggy Bottom]

Because to do so is a direct support of CORRUPTION

So if you get stopped by a Traffic cop in Thailand, and it was a case of giving him 200 Baht for your wrong doing and driving away, or, Making your way to the Police Station, paying a fine of 500 baht, then making your way back again, what option would you take?

Yea i thought so, you see, selective corruption appeals to you.

Live with it.

That of copurse assumes I do anything wrong

In fact, traffic cops have twice taken me to the cop shop - both times because they witnessed a Thai pull out in front of me and cause an accident. On one of those times they admitted they took the Thai into custody because they thought I was going to kill him if they didn't, and they made him pay for everything (for his own protection) - the Captain confided to me that he would want to kill the guy for such a stupid manouevre ...... still the repairs to my bike cost him a lot less than replacing the drivers door on his Mercedes.

I don't pay bribes because my country has a very strong anti-corruption culture and I retain it. There is no need to pay bribes here. Patience, knowing the rules, and being prepared are all that's needed - so what if it takes twenty minutes longer to get it done, I have the satisfaction of knowing that I haven't contributed to or aided the problem for future applications. All the local government offices now know it's a waste of time trying to get tea-money from me, so they don't try it on.

[Begs]

So yes, despite Iraq etc. there is a high probability this story will find it's way into the western press - even if I have to submit it myself because of attitudes like yours - I am a Thai registered Foreign Correspondent resident in the kingdom, and like many, I too need to find extra stories at this time of year.

I reckon that story would make the front page of the Telegraph, i am sure you will be in the frame for The Foreign Correspondent of the Year award with this exsclusive.

[Foggy Bottom]

Is this really how you want the world to see your country and your people?

Tell me something, how do people see the people of your Country?

You farang are always moaning, i am sure you people could pay for an agent to do the legwork for you and relax in the Hotel like KevinN did, and like i would.

R Stewart.

Actually many of the Thais I know say it the best - they admit that Brits are more honest and honourable that the men of Thailand (perhaps that's why so many Thai females want to marry us and get the ###### out of here?)

As you've now proven an inability to recognise there is a problem, let alone express any desire to fix the problem, I see no point in talking to you, but will make one last effort ......

All those bribes that Thai people have to pay - where do you think the money comes from?

Answer = YOU the Thai people, everyone who pays a bribe has to earn it somewhere, and that means higher prices passed to you when you're a customer, whether it's electricity, gas, petrol, food, beer .... anything you buy has an extra "tax" charged by the seller to cover the bribes they have to pay to others.

So, SOM NAM NA - you're giving away money in increased prices so that others can pay their bribes. Have you ever thought about THAT? Or about how much cheaper your booze, cigarettes, cars etc would be if there was no bribery culture in Thailand?

Probably not - you don't appear able to think that far ahead.

[Begs]

Because to do so is a direct support of CORRUPTION

So if you get stopped by a Traffic cop in Thailand, and it was a case of giving him 200 Baht for your wrong doing and driving away, or, Making your way to the Police Station, paying a fine of 500 baht, then making your way back again, what option would you take?

Yea i thought so, you see, selective corruption appeals to you.

On one of those times they admitted they took the Thai into custody because they thought I was going to kill him if they didn't, and they made him pay for everything (for his own protection) - the Captain confided to me that he would want to kill the guy for such a stupid manouevre ...... still the repairs to my bike cost him a lot less than replacing the drivers door on his Mercedes.

You admit to Threatening behaviour then?

The cops thought you was going to Kill a Thai citizen?

The cops confided to you that he would want to also Kill the guy?

Yes, i am sure that the Thai Mercedes driver was really intimidated by the actions of some farang on a Honda Dream.