Condo Questions

[ThaiLife]

Ive just been talking to a guy who’s thinking of buying a

Condo, a couple of questions he asked, I had no answer to

So can some one please comment on them …..

If a farang can have a condo registered in his own name

who actually owns the ground the condo is built on ..?

If the ground is owned by say the condo builder, could the

Owner of the ground sell it in some way, if so how would

This affect the condo owners if at all ..?

If when a farang firsts buy’s a condo, and the yearly

Maintenance fee’s are shown, what’s to stop the condo

Management from increasing the maintenance fees

On the next year to a vastly higher rate than shown

When the condo was purchased the year before..?

If say there’s 100 condo owners all paying equally

To the maintenance up keep fee’s , what happens

When some of the condo units are empty awaiting to be sold

Would the selling owner still have to pay the full

Maintenance amount, even if the condo unit is not

Occupied..?

Thanks.... TL

[Irene]

My comments in bold type:

Ive just been talking to a guy who's thinking of buying a

Condo, a couple of questions he asked, I had no answer to

So can some one please comment on them …..

If a farang can have a condo registered in his own name

who actually owns the ground the condo is built on ..?

The ground belongs to all co-owners who own proportionately the land. The proportion is well-spelt out on the title deed.

If the ground is owned by say the condo builder, could the

Owner of the ground sell it in some way, if so how would

This affect the condo owners if at all ..?

No, buyers of the condo units are the owner and not the builder or developer. Anything to do with the use or disposal of land requires three-quarter votes of the co-owners.

If when a farang firsts buy's a condo, and the yearly

Maintenance fee's are shown, what's to stop the condo

Management from increasing the maintenance fees

On the next year to a vastly higher rate than shown

When the condo was purchased the year before..?

The change of fees requires majority-approval of the co-owners at an annual general meeting.

If say there's 100 condo owners all paying equally

To the maintenance up keep fee's , what happens

When some of the condo units are empty awaiting to be sold

Would the selling owner still have to pay the full

Maintenance amount, even if the condo unit is not

Occupied..?

Yes, this is the painful part of buying a condo. If unoccupied or unused, you still have bear the monthly fees. You are unable to sell the condo, if you have not paid all the due maintenace fees.

Thanks.... TL

[typist]

If when a farang firsts buy's a condo, and the yearly

Maintenance fee's are shown, what's to stop the condo

Management from increasing the maintenance fees

On the next year to a vastly higher rate than shown

When the condo was purchased the year before..?

you should be concerned about the opposite - that it's too hard to raise maintenance fees to the level necessary to avoid deterioration of common areas...

Edited October 7, 2007 by typist

[briley]

Accepting that many condos find it hard to raise the maintenance fee it should not be that difficult.

It requires a simple majority of those present, or represented by proxy, at a general meeting. The meeting must have one third of the owners represented.

I sometimes feel it is the managers/owners who don't want to increase the fee.

There is also a requirement for owners to pay all due costs, eg electricity and water, so any increase that covers these must be allowed.

(This from the condo act of 2522)

[quiksilva]

Accepting that many condos find it hard to raise the maintenance fee it should not be that difficult.

It requires a simple majority of those present, or represented by proxy, at a general meeting. The meeting must have one third of the owners represented.

I sometimes feel it is the managers/owners who don't want to increase the fee.

There is also a requirement for owners to pay all due costs, eg electricity and water, so any increase that covers these must be allowed.

(This from the condo act of 2522)

I disagree on the point regarding CAM fees, I wouldn't say its the Managers. Most managers would dearly love to have more money to spend on improving the common areas, employing better staff etc. The problem is not them but your fellow co-owners who may not be willing to pay the higher fees.

Even if a motion is passed, the manager then has the job of collecting fees, which can prove to be even more problematic, especially if they are not residents.

Edited October 8, 2007 by quiksilva

[Raptor7]

I disagree on the point regarding CAM fees, I wouldn't say its the Managers. Most managers would dearly love to have more money to spend on improving the common areas, employing better staff etc. The problem is not them but your fellow co-owners who may not be willing to pay the higher fees.

Even if a motion is passed, the manager then has the job of collecting fees, which can prove to be even more problematic, especially if they are not residents.

I agree with the above statement. Luckily in one condo I have, a special resolution was passed to levy a one time fee (in addition to the normal monthly CAM fees) on all owners (to pay for a complete repainting of the building and an updating of the lobby and lift interiors)...all owners (about 100 units) have paid and the work is well underway... there was really no debate or resistance....

[dave111223]

If when a farang firsts buy's a condo, and the yearly

Maintenance fee's are shown, what's to stop the condo

Management from increasing the maintenance fees

On the next year to a vastly higher rate than shown

When the condo was purchased the year before..?

you should be concerned about the opposite - that it's too hard to raise maintenance fees to the level necessary to avoid deterioration of common areas...

Totally agreed, we are having this problem in our building. The condo just gets enough money to cover the basics such as taking out the trash and mopping the floors. The fee has never been raised (and building is 15 years old).

Seems like most owners would rather see their investment deteriorate into a slum than shell out an extra 100baht per month on maintenance.

P.S. Seem like whenever there is talk of an increase all the cheapskates come up with story of a corrupt management; Thais seem terrified of being accused of "doing corruption".

Edited October 8, 2007 by dave111223

[Naam]

The ground belongs to all co-owners who own proportionately the land. The proportion is well-spelt out on the title deed.

thai law does not allow foreigners to own land. period!

[pop3]

<br />

The ground belongs to all co-owners who own proportionately the land. The proportion is well-spelt out on the title deed.

<br />thai law does not allow foreigners to own land. period!<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Who are these co-owners ? how can you find out more information on them ?

[Irene]

The ground belongs to all co-owners who own proportionately the land. The proportion is well-spelt out on the title deed.

thai law does not allow foreigners to own land. period!

The land that the condo is built on belongs to all co-owners, i.e. each unit holder, of the building irrespective of their nationality.

[Irene]

<br />

The ground belongs to all co-owners who own proportionately the land. The proportion is well-spelt out on the title deed.

<br />thai law does not allow foreigners to own land. period!<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Who are these co-owners ? how can you find out more information on them ?

These co-owners are the titleholders of each unit within the condo which is in law viewed as privately owned by each unitholder. The registration of these holders are with the Land Department.

The land that the condo building is built on belongs to all co-owners proportionately stated on each title deed. The unitholders irrepective of their nationality own this land. For example, if a condo is destroyed or demolished and a new building has to be built, the resolution of the three-quarter of the votes of the unitholders has to be reached of the design and usage or alternatively to sell the land and the proceeds have to be apportioned in accordance with the ratios stated on the title deed of each unit. The benefits on that land go to all co-owners.

[ZZZ]

The ground belongs to all co-owners who own proportionately the land. The proportion is well-spelt out on the title deed.

thai law does not allow foreigners to own land. period!

You are correct in a way. Foreigners can not, normally, outright own a plot of land but they can be part owners using a company or by buying a condo. In the condo case only 49% of the land will be owned by foreigners as they can only buy 49% of the condo units.

[pkrv]

The ground belongs to all co-owners who own proportionately the land. The proportion is well-spelt out on the title deed.

thai law does not allow foreigners to own land. period!

You are correct in a way. Foreigners can not, normally, outright own a plot of land but they can be part owners using a company or by buying a condo. In the condo case only 49% of the land will be owned by foreigners as they can only buy 49% of the condo units.

I can see people's brains working as they wonder how small a condominium can be.....

On the maintenance fee front - this can cause problems with difficult people. In a sense it is why I liked the concept of 3 years maintenance up front at The Park development, a good test of commitment, weeds out - well the weeds.

There are penalties that can be applied if payment is not made, i.e. no access to communal areas including the lifts. Walk up the fire escape to the 22nd floor looser! and enforce it!

Edited October 9, 2007 by pkrv

[backflip]

"Seems like most owners would rather see their investment deteriorate into a slum than shell out an extra 100baht per month on maintenance."

What evidence do you have to support this statement? Perhaps YOU don't want to pay a higher maintenance fee, but that doesn't mean everyone wants to live in a slum.

[dave111223]

"Seems like most owners would rather see their investment deteriorate into a slum than shell out an extra 100baht per month on maintenance."

What evidence do you have to support this statement? Perhaps YOU don't want to pay a higher maintenance fee, but that doesn't mean everyone wants to live in a slum.

I think you have misunderstood me. My wife is on the condo committee and am one of the few people for a raise in the fees to make much needed improvements. But the chance of getting the vote through is very slim as most owners in the building do not want to pay more. This is based on the facts that:

A ) The turn out required at the vote to pass the higher fees is atleast 50% (for our building).

And over 50% of those of who vote must vote for.

This years meeting/voting there was something like a 22% turn out. Getting 50% of the owners to come and vote seems to be impossible.

B ) Even those 22% who actually decide to show up and vote usually seem to vote against anything that will cost any $$ (ie painting the building, fixing structural problems etc...).

So once again (in case you don't read this post either). I DO WANT TO PAY MORE AND HAVE IMPROVEMENTS MADE BUT OTHER OWNERS DON'T.

Edited October 9, 2007 by dave111223

[Naam]

The ground belongs to all co-owners who own proportionately the land. The proportion is well-spelt out on the title deed.

thai law does not allow foreigners to own land. period!

The land that the condo is built on belongs to all co-owners, i.e. each unit holder, of the building irrespective of their nationality.

that seems logical. but when i did some research several years ago nobody could prove to me (thai law, regulations, land office) that this is indeed the case. all what i got was verbal bla-bla-bla which in Thailand isn't worth a single Satang.

[pkrv]

The ground belongs to all co-owners who own proportionately the land. The proportion is well-spelt out on the title deed.

thai law does not allow foreigners to own land. period!

The land that the condo is built on belongs to all co-owners, i.e. each unit holder, of the building irrespective of their nationality.

that seems logical. but when i did some research several years ago nobody could prove to me (thai law, regulations, land office) that this is indeed the case. all what i got was verbal bla-bla-bla which in Thailand isn't worth a single Satang.

Try this reference 'The Condominium Act B.E 2522 (1979)' My own contract exactly states the ratio I own/will soon own (hopefully )of the common property (0.26%). Everything in the common property is detailed including generators, lightning rod, fire fighting sytems, gardens etc....

http://www.dol.go.th/low_ministry/commandm...do_no3_2542.htm

Googling 'Condominium Act B.E 2522' brings up more details

Edited October 9, 2007 by pkrv