Urgent / Critical Situation As A Parent: Need Expert Advice

[greenwanderer108]

As a 24 year old Thai American parent of a 19 month old boy (Thai American dual national as me), I have found myself backed into an uncomfortable corner. My situation is critical and I need the best possible advice and input from other parents and life professionals.

When my son was born April, 2006 in Bangkok, I was proud new dad and made all the efforts to do everything right--at least what I thought was so--from the start. I secured his Thai and American national status to make sure all his options were on the table. Then, he and his mother, a native of Phuket, who quit her job at Dusit Thani hotel in Bangkok, lived in an apartment while I worked two-three jobs in Bangkok to make ends meet for us then.

After a few months, I took up a job teaching in Samut Songkhram and our little family of three moved there. The mom stayed home while I worked and our son was growing up with both his parents, the most healthiest path I believed to be. Eventually, as one might expect, his mom was getting lonely and bored, and as of March, earlier this year, we came to the decision to relocate to the inlaws house in Phuket. The mother had ambitions to get back her life with a job and be near her family in Phuket, while I was supposed to adapt and try to find work in Phuket while the kid stayed home with his grandma pending the mother and I both found jobs.

I was skeptical of such an arrangement from the beginning knowing that without a degree, I would have a difficult time finding security, particularly in Phuket where skilled and qualified farang are in abundance. But I gave in, after all, how could I be so selfish to expect the mom (graduated bachelors in English) to be a housewife for the next 15+years.

In Phuket, I did manage to find a job, but found that it wasn't secure and cloudy future and after a month, I quit as my old teaching position in Samut Songkhram was still vacant. After much contemplation, I decided that my best route would be to take advantage of having the inlaws (the mom's mother and her step dad of 20 years) help look after my son and the kid's mom could be happy to go back to work, etc.

This also opened the window that I could possibly return to University (Bangkok University International College) Where I still had 2.5 full years to complete a degree that I had to abandon almost 3 years ago (despite a 3.9 GPA) due to financial burden of tuition on top of meeting my son's mom which resulted in my son coming to this world.

By June, I returned to my old job in Samut Songkhram so that I could save up for tuition money to get back to school. My son stayed in Phuket with his mom and it was tough decision for me to make, but I believed it would be for the better if I could really get back to school.

Since living in the inlaws house for a few months and since going to Samut Songkhram, everything has gone to crap for me and my version of my own family, something I was afraid of. The inlaws have no respect for me and certain values I tried and hoped to instill in my son from the beginning. And why should they? I don't send them tens of thousands of baht every month. It was agreed (though clearly reluctantly) that I would send milk and diaper money until the end of the year or until the mom got a good job and could take over so that I could concentrate on finishing the degree, which ideally would have been better for my son in the long run--so I thought.

The biggest issue I had that has caused several fights and arguments between me and the mom+inlaws is safety values of my son. For example, initially when my son first started to walk at about 12-13 months, right before I was to depart from leaving my son in Phuket, I made an issue about his safety and try to establish an environment and guidlines that would be agreed so I could sleep well at night knowing he was safe.

The first thing was the house situation. The grandma works from her house as an independent seamstress and their house is like an open door shop house next to a road (with no yard) that has cars and motorcycles passing and speeding by--quite dangerous considering its open door and my son was just learning to walk. Being she has to work and eventually the mom would be away working, with my stressing, we eventually found a solution to build a wooden cage/gate to block of the front of the house and prevent him from wondering into the street while the grandma works away on her sewing machine. I could partially sigh then.

Next big issue was the motorcycle. I initially had the rule that he was not to get on any motorcycle. That didn't ride too well, particularly with the step grandpa who, despite my pleading decided it was perfectly okay to take my son for drives around the neighborhood in the evenings (without a helmet!!!). After our initial dispute about this telling him that it was not cool with me and that I was serious about the motorcycle safety, I eventually had to compromise and said that my son must wear a helmet at all times (I have bought two different helmets for my son just so there was no excuse) which he initially nodded along and I sucked it in thinking my point was made.

Over the past three months, I always suspected that as soon as I was not around, the inlaws would completely disregard the helmet rule as they truly don't see any value in such a rule as their counter argument about my safety and moral plees was that people who die on motorcycles would die even with a helmet on, and that it's only speeding drunks who are at risk, etc. etc. But anyway, I fooled myself, sucking it in believing that if I didn't see it and as long as the kids mom was telling me over the phone that my son wasn't on the motorbike or on the apparent rare occasion that he was, he was helmeted. Deep inside, I suspected she was only saying so to appease me and shut me up from making an issue. But I wasn't there and what could I do?

So, now come October, the mom has finally got a job and is away in Bangkok for one month training deal before she comes back to work in Phuket early November. October is school break for me so it was sure I wanted to be with my son. I still have November and part of December to teach in Samut Songkhram before my contract is up, where the plan was to enroll and commence Uni studies January as explained earlier. So I've come to Phuket to be with my son, for it was one of the last opportunities I might have to spend good quality time with him before every thing goes down (or up as ultimately intended).

Being back in the inlaws house, everything that I feared and wanted to avoid is surfacing. I've been back in Phuket almost two weeks and the mom isn't here so I've lagging around the house with the grandma and my son (who is now attached to his grandma and seems to resent me at times as is the attitude of the grandparents)

So this last weekend, I went to a funeral in Pataloong of one of the kid's mom's relatives' relative. I was invited and since I never been to Pataloong or Hatyai, thought it'd be nice to see for the drive. I initially planned to take my son, but the grandma made an issue saying that it's dangerous and he shouldn't go. Rather than argue with her, I let her have her way and since I had already agreed with the other relative to accompany on the drive, I didn't back out. So anyway, sunday night (tonight) I arrive back at the Phuket house and the grandma is there but my son is not in sight... I have an idea where he's at but I'm hoping I'm wrong. What do you know, he's out with the step grandpa on an evening cruise and both the crash helmets are sitting around....

He and my son eventually get back and I'm wanting to avoid the inevitable dispute but I know it's not likely. When I try to approach either the grandma or step grandpa, I'm immediately insulted violently with words, almost kicked out by the step grandpa, all in front of my son who is clinging on to them both (he has been spoiled by them, so what can I expect)Though with intent to use the most polite language and wit I have to lure them into a constructive dialogs (avoid being attacked physically) as they refused to talk intelligently and totally disrespected me in front of my son. I know I was at loss as I am in their house, etc. etc. and so now I'm just stuck figuring out what to do next.

I know I don't want my son here anymore. I may be overreacting, but if it means his life, I refuse to budge, particularly on the helmet issue. I know the only way I can be sure is to take things back into my own hands as they once were, which is quite difficult to do considering the circumstances.

Though I saved face and avoided a hopeless situation from erupting into a violent ending tonight, nothing has been gained and I need to make critical decisions--for the life of me and my son. I initially tried calling the mom in Bangkok to try to work something out and figure things out with her consent but after two minutes she hung up on me and turned off the phone. She is enjoying her solo life with her new work friends, which sounds like they are sitting around playing cards in the hotel room...she refuses to have anything to do with me and I know the only way I can assure that me and my son gets out of here safely and rightfully is if she agrees.

And so what next? I'm stuck but I know that if I just ignore it and get on with my life as planned, things will get worse after 2 + years away at Uni...it's only been two months and I'm starting to regret ever leaving away. The whole first 6 months, the grandparents basically wanted nothing to do with raising the kid but now they are looking that they don't even trust me with him and clinging on to him. In two more years ++ how much more difficult will it be to take back charge in quality raising a son, that I'm sure he won't get from spoiling Thai grandparents.

I wouldn't be surprised if the mom hasn't already got a new boyfriend and she's it's not unlikely she won't meet someone knew after a while... We've already had are spills and the only thing really left letting us even know eachother,so it seems is the son. I don't want to be the dead beat father who left his kid with the grandparents, and sends child support, etc. If I continue with the initial plan, I may end up losing out all together after two years that may make it even more difficult.

I see that I have made a mistake leaving him with the grandparents now--In only three months, he has grown apart from me a lot and is at risk of being raised their own shady style--one that I have decided I can not ultimately accept seeing the results from the kids mom and her younger brother.

What must I do??? At first I thought that I would just suck it in for 2-3 years where I would eventually step in and take over with more options than, but I'm so backed in the corner now that I may need to act now before it's too late. This initial post is so long and if you were able to finish to this point, please offer some support, advice, suggestions, and angles that I should consider. I need all I can get to make the healthiest, wisest situation possible.

Thanks in advance x 1000

[solo siam]

With English language skills like this, and not needing a work permit due to your Thai nationality I would have thought that it would have been VERY easy to find a well paying job in Phuket, certainly a job that pays more than teaching English. You speak English and Thai (I'm assuming) perfectly, have a Western mentality and an employer doesn't need all the hassle of getting you a work permit etc...

You aren't competing with farangs for jobs (they need work permits) and you aren't competing with the average Thai for a job (they don't have your language skills) Seriously it would be a cinch to get a good job here, with a Hotel, Real Estate, Service Industry or Tourism related company.

I've had exactly the same experience in regards to motorcycle rides, you just have to be there to stop it I'm afraid. Personally I'd forget Uni, get a good job in Phuket and have your family (wife and kid) live with you, You'd be the main breadwinner and you can set the rules.

[Boo]

Don't know about the job situation but I would take your son & rent a small house/room until your gf comes back from BKK. No way would I put up with the inlaws being so disrespectful & seemingly turning your son against you. Your son, your rules. If they look after him, ok they have a lot of control but this sounds like a total piss take to me. Get him out of the house. As a duel thai/american nationality you have a lot of options & as the above poster said, you have no need to compete with farangs as you need ot no work permit so should be able to walk into a job quite easily.

My in laws tried to disrespect my rules regarding our son when we visited in August (baby was 3 months at the time but I just made it clear that if things weren't done my way then we would be staying in the local motel & they would see him for an hour a day for a couple of weeks a year from now on rather than us stay in a house when we visited. Worked so far but I will continue to keep a close eye on them on future visits.

You can't mess around with your kids life & if they wont listen to you without turning violent & insulting then I wouldn't want my kid raised in that enviornment.

[ajarnmark]

As a 24 year old Thai American parent of a 19 month old boy (Thai American dual national as me), I have found myself backed into an uncomfortable corner. My situation is critical and I need the best possible advice and input from other parents and life professionals.

When my son was born April, 2006 in Bangkok, I was proud new dad and made all the efforts to do everything right--at least what I thought was so--from the start. I secured his Thai and American national status to make sure all his options were on the table. Then, he and his mother, a native of Phuket, who quit her job at Dusit Thani hotel in Bangkok, lived in an apartment while I worked two-three jobs in Bangkok to make ends meet for us then.

Seems like you never married the mom of your son, coz you refer to your son's mom and not as your wife.

After a few months, I took up a job teaching in Samut Songkhram and our little family of three moved there. The mom stayed home while I worked and our son was growing up with both his parents, the most healthiest path I believed to be. Eventually, as one might expect, his mom was getting lonely and bored, and as of March, earlier this year, we came to the decision to relocate to the inlaws house in Phuket. The mother had ambitions to get back her life with a job and be near her family in Phuket, while I was supposed to adapt and try to find work in Phuket while the kid stayed home with his grandma pending the mother and I both found jobs.

I was skeptical of such an arrangement from the beginning knowing that without a degree, I would have a difficult time finding security, particularly in Phuket where skilled and qualified farang are in abundance. But I gave in, after all, how could I be so selfish to expect the mom (graduated bachelors in English) to be a housewife for the next 15+years.

Agreed

In Phuket, I did manage to find a job, but found that it wasn't secure and cloudy future and after a month, I quit as my old teaching position in Samut Songkhram was still vacant. After much contemplation, I decided that my best route would be to take advantage of having the inlaws (the mom's mother and her step dad of 20 years) help look after my son and the kid's mom could be happy to go back to work, etc.

This also opened the window that I could possibly return to University (Bangkok University International College) Where I still had 2.5 full years to complete a degree that I had to abandon almost 3 years ago (despite a 3.9 GPA) due to financial burden of tuition on top of meeting my son's mom which resulted in my son coming to this world.

Doesnt your university offer any scholarship for a GPA like yours?

By June, I returned to my old job in Samut Songkhram so that I could save up for tuition money to get back to school. My son stayed in Phuket with his mom and it was tough decision for me to make, but I believed it would be for the better if I could really get back to school.

Since living in the inlaws house for a few months and since going to Samut Songkhram, everything has gone to crap for me and my version of my own family, something I was afraid of. The inlaws have no respect for me and certain values I tried and hoped to instill in my son from the beginning. And why should they? I don't send them tens of thousands of baht every month. It was agreed (though clearly reluctantly) that I would send milk and diaper money until the end of the year or until the mom got a good job and could take over so that I could concentrate on finishing the degree, which ideally would have been better for my son in the long run--so I thought.

How much you earn that you cant send some money for your family? I guess you must send money to support your family completely and not just money for the baby.

The biggest issue I had that has caused several fights and arguments between me and the mom+inlaws is safety values of my son. For example, initially when my son first started to walk at about 12-13 months, right before I was to depart from leaving my son in Phuket, I made an issue about his safety and try to establish an environment and guidlines that would be agreed so I could sleep well at night knowing he was safe.

The first thing was the house situation. The grandma works from her house as an independent seamstress and their house is like an open door shop house next to a road (with no yard) that has cars and motorcycles passing and speeding by--quite dangerous considering its open door and my son was just learning to walk. Being she has to work and eventually the mom would be away working, with my stressing, we eventually found a solution to build a wooden cage/gate to block of the front of the house and prevent him from wondering into the street while the grandma works away on her sewing machine. I could partially sigh then.

Agreed, this is a real problem and everyone has to be careful, especially with a child of your son's age.

Next big issue was the motorcycle. I initially had the rule that he was not to get on any motorcycle. That didn't ride too well, particularly with the step grandpa who, despite my pleading decided it was perfectly okay to take my son for drives around the neighborhood in the evenings (without a helmet!!!). After our initial dispute about this telling him that it was not cool with me and that I was serious about the motorcycle safety, I eventually had to compromise and said that my son must wear a helmet at all times (I have bought two different helmets for my son just so there was no excuse) which he initially nodded along and I sucked it in thinking my point was made.

I dont think that this is a big issue, unless the step-grandpa drives rash.

Over the past three months, I always suspected that as soon as I was not around, the inlaws would completely disregard the helmet rule as they truly don't see any value in such a rule as their counter argument about my safety and moral plees was that people who die on motorcycles would die even with a helmet on, and that it's only speeding drunks who are at risk, etc. etc. But anyway, I fooled myself, sucking it in believing that if I didn't see it and as long as the kids mom was telling me over the phone that my son wasn't on the motorbike or on the apparent rare occasion that he was, he was helmeted. Deep inside, I suspected she was only saying so to appease me and shut me up from making an issue. But I wasn't there and what could I do?

When there is a doubt, there is a fight --- Mark

So, now come October, the mom has finally got a job and is away in Bangkok for one month training deal before she comes back to work in Phuket early November. October is school break for me so it was sure I wanted to be with my son. I still have November and part of December to teach in Samut Songkhram before my contract is up, where the plan was to enroll and commence Uni studies January as explained earlier. So I've come to Phuket to be with my son, for it was one of the last opportunities I might have to spend good quality time with him before every thing goes down (or up as ultimately intended).

Being back in the inlaws house, everything that I feared and wanted to avoid is surfacing. I've been back in Phuket almost two weeks and the mom isn't here so I've lagging around the house with the grandma and my son (who is now attached to his grandma and seems to resent me at times as is the attitude of the grandparents)

So this last weekend, I went to a funeral in Pataloong of one of the kid's mom's relatives' relative. I was invited and since I never been to Pataloong or Hatyai, thought it'd be nice to see for the drive. I initially planned to take my son, but the grandma made an issue saying that it's dangerous and he shouldn't go. Rather than argue with her, I let her have her way and since I had already agreed with the other relative to accompany on the drive, I didn't back out. So anyway, sunday night (tonight) I arrive back at the Phuket house and the grandma is there but my son is not in sight... I have an idea where he's at but I'm hoping I'm wrong. What do you know, he's out with the step grandpa on an evening cruise and both the crash helmets are sitting around....

He and my son eventually get back and I'm wanting to avoid the inevitable dispute but I know it's not likely. When I try to approach either the grandma or step grandpa, I'm immediately insulted violently with words, almost kicked out by the step grandpa, all in front of my son who is clinging on to them both (he has been spoiled by them, so what can I expect)Though with intent to use the most polite language and wit I have to lure them into a constructive dialogs (avoid being attacked physically) as they refused to talk intelligently and totally disrespected me in front of my son. I know I was at loss as I am in their house, etc. etc. and so now I'm just stuck figuring out what to do next.

You have a very big ego, IMO, and do you think that a 19 months old child can even understand the meaning of face and insult etc., in a way that you understand it. Your son is not spoiled, what do you expect him to do, fight with grandpa or take your side? Dont think too much, all your son could understand is that there is something wrong, what, no idea. Just tell me, how many things do you remember, when you were 19 months old?

I know I don't want my son here anymore. I may be overreacting, but if it means his life, I refuse to budge, particularly on the helmet issue. I know the only way I can be sure is to take things back into my own hands as they once were, which is quite difficult to do considering the circumstances.

Though I saved face and avoided a hopeless situation from erupting into a violent ending tonight, nothing has been gained and I need to make critical decisions--for the life of me and my son. I initially tried calling the mom in Bangkok to try to work something out and figure things out with her consent but after two minutes she hung up on me and turned off the phone. She is enjoying her solo life with her new work friends, which sounds like they are sitting around playing cards in the hotel room...she refuses to have anything to do with me and I know the only way I can assure that me and my son gets out of here safely and rightfully is if she agrees.

Maybe (just maybe) you shouted and she could not take that. It seems very apparent from your post that you are overreacting too much. I agree that there are some faults on the part of your inlaws.

And so what next? I'm stuck but I know that if I just ignore it and get on with my life as planned, things will get worse after 2 + years away at Uni...it's only been two months and I'm starting to regret ever leaving away. The whole first 6 months, the grandparents basically wanted nothing to do with raising the kid but now they are looking that they don't even trust me with him and clinging on to him. In two more years ++ how much more difficult will it be to take back charge in quality raising a son, that I'm sure he won't get from spoiling Thai grandparents.

How can you guarantee a quality?

I wouldn't be surprised if the mom hasn't already got a new boyfriend and she's it's not unlikely she won't meet someone knew after a while... We've already had are spills and the only thing really left letting us even know each other,so it seems is the son. I don't want to be the dead beat father who left his kid with the grandparents, and sends child support, etc. If I continue with the initial plan, I may end up losing out all together after two years that may make it even more difficult.

I see that I have made a mistake leaving him with the grandparents now--In only three months, he has grown apart from me a lot and is at risk of being raised their own shady style--one that I have decided I can not ultimately accept seeing the results from the kids mom and her younger brother.

How can you say that your style is not shady? If you think that your kid's grandparents are such bad parents, then why did you leave your son with them at first place?

What must I do??? At first I thought that I would just suck it in for 2-3 years where I would eventually step in and take over with more options than, but I'm so backed in the corner now that I may need to act now before it's too late. This initial post is so long and if you were able to finish to this point, please offer some support, advice, suggestions, and angles that I should consider. I need all I can get to make the healthiest, wisest situation possible.

Thanks in advance x 1000

[ajarnmark]

Don't know about the job situation but I would take your son & rent a small house/room until your gf comes back from BKK. No way would I put up with the inlaws being so disrespectful & seemingly turning your son against you. Your son, your rules. If they look after him, ok they have a lot of control but this sounds like a total piss take to me. Get him out of the house. As a duel thai/american nationality you have a lot of options & as the above poster said, you have no need to compete with farangs as you need ot no work permit so should be able to walk into a job quite easily.

My in laws tried to disrespect my rules regarding our son when we visited in August (baby was 3 months at the time but I just made it clear that if things weren't done my way then we would be staying in the local motel & they would see him for an hour a day for a couple of weeks a year from now on rather than us stay in a house when we visited. Worked so far but I will continue to keep a close eye on them on future visits.

You can't mess around with your kids life & if they wont listen to you without turning violent & insulting then I wouldn't want my kid raised in that enviornment.

You should be given a "boo"

In Asian cultures, grandparents are given respect and the right to be listened to.

How would you feel when your child ask you not to see your grandchildren?

I think this is too much of disrespect for any grandparents

No, I am not grandparent, I am just 32

Edited October 7, 2007 by ajarnmark

[Boo]

Hey I'm also 32 & not asian so they have to adapt to my ways too. When I tell them not to feed my son as he had a bottle not an hour ago & is not hungry but crying just because he is tired & then 5 minutes late I see someone try to put the bottle from several hours ago in his mouth then I will turn nasty. Not only have the ignored my instruction they are also endangering his health by trying to feed a small baby milk that has sat out for more than an hour & has now started to turn bad. Apart from the issue of him being tired not hungry so therefore needs some quite space to go to sleep not people clapping & shouting in his face.

Things have to go both ways. My own family don't disregard what I want to happen with my son so why, because they are asian, should they be allowed to.

As my sons mother my only concern is him not anyone elses feelings And they now know, if I can't trust them then he can't spend time with them without me or my husband being present. Simple innit.

[solo siam]

Don't know about the job situation but I would take your son & rent a small house/room until your gf comes back from BKK. No way would I put up with the inlaws being so disrespectful & seemingly turning your son against you. Your son, your rules. If they look after him, ok they have a lot of control but this sounds like a total piss take to me. Get him out of the house. As a duel thai/american nationality you have a lot of options & as the above poster said, you have no need to compete with farangs as you need ot no work permit so should be able to walk into a job quite easily.

My in laws tried to disrespect my rules regarding our son when we visited in August (baby was 3 months at the time but I just made it clear that if things weren't done my way then we would be staying in the local motel & they would see him for an hour a day for a couple of weeks a year from now on rather than us stay in a house when we visited. Worked so far but I will continue to keep a close eye on them on future visits.

You can't mess around with your kids life & if they wont listen to you without turning violent & insulting then I wouldn't want my kid raised in that enviornment.

You should be given a "boo"

In Asian cultures, grandparents are given respect and the right to be listened to.

How would you feel when your child ask you not to see your grandchildren?

I think this is too much of disrespect for any grandparents

No, I am not grandparent, I am just 32

Maybe in regards to growing rice, or tales about ghosts - But you can't seriously think he should let the grandparents take a baby out on a motorbike without any sort of protection simply because they deserve respect? or thats the way it was done 50 years ago when they were young.

[TommyGun]

Personally i have been in a very simialr situation. The GP's feeding the son sweets all the time to the point that he won't eat anything else other than. His safetly was always a concern as they let him travel in the car with no seatbelt, climb motorcycles in the street. One fell on him cut his head open and burnt his leg form the hot exhaust. Despite all the warnings, or should i say requests prior, they didn't and still don't care.

My advice would be to take control now. What the poster said about the child won't remember is rubbish. He won't rememebr but he will be programmed to related to his grandparents and not you. You will, and from the sounds of it are already becomming the stranger. Your studying is important but your son should be the most valuble thing to you. He is your son.

The advantage you have over me is that i wasn't the really father. I was when paying for bills etc.

[greenwanderer108]

Seems like you never married the mom of your son, coz you refer to your son's mom and not as your wife.

Correct, I haven't yet married her legally or traditionally as I'm not convinced that we will last happily ever after, which could be a major cause of some of our issues (cultural implications)--so I have considered. The plan is if/when I ever decide to migrate to the USA, ideally it would be as a family, and yes I'd have to either marry her before hand or marry her in the USA as far as legal wise (K1 or K3 visa decision).

Doesnt your university offer any scholarship for a GPA like yours?

When I was initially studying, as I had to find and pay my own way solely, I could only afford time and money wise to study 12 credits per term as to be available 4 days a week to work as to get living and tuition funds together. The Uni's policy for their Extraordinary student scholarship (only possible scholarship for foreign students who achieved 3.8 gpa +), so I found out too late, was that you had to enroll minimum of 18 credits per term (4-5 days of classes per week at about 30-35k baht tuition costs per term) consistently every single term or be disqualified for ever obtaining such scholarship. Making tuition for 12 credits per term at circa 25k was hard as it was on top of rent, transport, etc.

Then I hadn't completed gaining (proving) Thai nationality so I was already banned from other options / scholarships. Now that my Thai nationality is finalized, more options for scholarships and loans may (though clearly not guarunteed) be possible--more incentive for me to drop everything for a few years and get back to school.

How much you earn that you cant send some money for your family? I guess you must send money to support your family completely and not just money for the baby.

Initially when I lived with my son and his mom, I handled all expenses for the three of us (though she complained/complains that she didn't have enough--{do they ever get enough?}--spending money and financial leisure, and I admit I wasn't always jolly about showering her with gifts or giving in to all her non-essential spending requests--perhaps working hard for a few years is what she really needs...)

So anyway the arrangement for me remotely sending her diaper and milk money was agreed only a temporary deal so that I could focus and save the essential funds to be able to afford my first term back at Uni where she would ideally have a job then to be able to take over the financial costs of our son for a few years.

Agreed, this is a real problem and everyone has to be careful, especially with a child of your son's age.

I dont think that this is a big issue, unless the step-grandpa drives rash.

??? No, he's not maniac that I know of, but it's beside the point. Aside from safety, I intend to instill non-lazy values in my son, and make it a standard and mandatory habit that is in harmony not only with the law, but a statement and sign that one is conscious and respectful of safety precautions and values. There's nothing wrong with having second-nature habit of wearing crash helmet on Thailand's deadliest machine--one has got nothing to lose wearing the helmet while something (blood and life) to lose without wearing a helmet--simple.

Maybe (just maybe) you shouted and she could not take that. It seems very apparent from your post that you are overreacting too much. I agree that there are some faults on the part of your inlaws.

grandparents.

Yes, I have clearly had flaws in communication with her among others, and probably will continue to experience such as long as I have breath of life, but I tend to master such flaws as opposed to being mastered by them--so is the idea.

How can you guarantee a quality?

Depends on ones definitions of quality--worthy and deserving of a new thread altogether if anyone cares to initiate.

How can you say that your style is not shady? If you think that your kid's grandparents are such bad parents, then why did you leave your son with them at first place?

hady as far as safety, yes! There are many areas they might be more qualified than me, it may be true, but for children, safety comes first. I'm still trying to realize my mistake or come to terms with my own ego, whichever may be the case.

S

Edited October 7, 2007 by greenwanderer108

[JUDAS]

Seems like you never married the mom of your son, coz you refer to your son's mom and not as your wife.

Correct, I haven't yet married her legally or traditionally as I'm not convinced that we will last happily ever after, which could be a major cause of some of our issues (cultural implications)--so I have considered. The plan is if/when I ever decide to migrate to the USA, ideally it would be as a family, and yes I'd have to either marry her before hand or marry her in the USA as far as legal wise (K1 or K3 visa decision).

Doesnt your university offer any scholarship for a GPA like yours?

When I was initially studying, as I had to find and pay my own way solely, I could only afford time and money wise to study 12 credits per term as to be available 4 days a week to work as to get living and tuition funds together. The Uni's policy for their Extraordinary student scholarship (only possible scholarship for foreign students who achieved 3.8 gpa +), so I found out too late, was that you had to enroll minimum of 18 credits per term (4-5 days of classes per week at about 30-35k baht tuition costs per term) consistently every single term or be disqualified for ever obtaining such scholarship. Making tuition for 12 credits per term at circa 25k was hard as it was on top of rent, transport, etc.

Then I hadn't completed gaining (proving) Thai nationality so I was already banned from other options / scholarships. Now that my Thai nationality is finalized, more options for scholarships and loans may (though clearly not guarunteed) be possible--more incentive for me to drop everything for a few years and get back to school.

How much you earn that you cant send some money for your family? I guess you must send money to support your family completely and not just money for the baby.

Initially when I lived with my son and his mom, I handled all expenses for the three of us (though she complained/complains that she didn't have enough--{do they ever get enough?}--spending money and financial leisure, and I admit I wasn't always jolly about showering her with gifts or giving in to all her non-essential spending requests--perhaps working hard for a few years is what she really needs...)

So anyway the arrangement for me remotely sending her diaper and milk money was agreed only a temporary deal so that I could focus and save the essential funds to be able to afford my first term back at Uni where she would ideally have a job then to be able to take over the financial costs of our son for a few years.

Agreed, this is a real problem and everyone has to be careful, especially with a child of your son's age.

I dont think that this is a big issue, unless the step-grandpa drives rash.

??? No, he's not maniac that I know of, but it's beside the point. Aside from safety, I intend to instill non-lazy values in my son, and make it a standard and mandatory habit that is in harmony not only with the law, but a statement and sign that one is conscious and respectful of safety precautions and values. There's nothing wrong with having second-nature habit of wearing crash helmet on Thailand's deadliest machine--one has got nothing to lose wearing the helmet while something (blood and life) to lose without wearing a helmet--simple.

Maybe (just maybe) you shouted and she could not take that. It seems very apparent from your post that you are overreacting too much. I agree that there are some faults on the part of your inlaws.

grandparents.

Yes, I have clearly had flaws in communication with her among others, and probably will continue to experience such as long as I have breath of life, but I tend to master such flaws as opposed to being mastered by them--so is the idea.

How can you guarantee a quality?

Depends on ones definitions of quality--worthy and deserving of a new thread altogether if anyone cares to initiate.

How can you say that your style is not shady? If you think that your kid's grandparents are such bad parents, then why did you leave your son with them at first place?

hady as far as safety, yes! There are many areas they might be more qualified than me, it may be true, but for children, safety comes first. I'm still trying to realize my mistake or come to terms with my own ego, whichever may be the case.

S

In my opinion ( for what it's worth ) your son's GP are paying little or no attention to your views on his upbringing etc because your wife/gf has obviously discussed her feelings for you with them. If I was in your position ( I have Thai wife and 3 year old daughter, thankfully with wonderful GP ) I would certainly be trying to get my child's mother back on track. Without the support of the mother it really is an uphill struggle to get the GP to accept your point of view.

Wish you the best of luck with this difficult situation...

[nikisue]

I feel sorry for your situation. But I do not think you can rush in and start telling the Grandparents or your baby's mother what you want for your child. You have to remember that it's the GPs who have been raising and looking after your son. Even if you don't agree with their methods, they have taken on your son. The Grandparents are not the same as paid help like a nanny where you expect them to follow out your instructions, they are family and have obviously raised their own children. You said that your baby's mother is a university graduate so they must be doing something right. YOu should try and look at some of the positive things that the GP have done. I do 100% agree with the motobike thing. I do not let my 19 month old on one and never have. Although again her father and his family would not think twice about it.

Maybe you should think about financially helping them with the raising of your child. And if you want a say in how, then you should be there everyday with him. So he can bond with you as his father. The GP might then see that you are involved and making an effort and start to agree to some of your requests.

[El Taco Loco]

The fundamental problem here is that the OP is not respected as the father. And he never will. Too late.

Take the son out of the house, if you can.

I also moved to Phuket because my wife wanted to be closer to her family. Now, 5 years later, she begs me to agree to leave the island with her and son in tow. She cannot stand them.

One of the first things I did when my son, now 17 months, was born, was lay down the rules for them to touch him. Wash hands, no smoking, no motoci rides. Wife refuses to ride a bike with him etc etc. The inlaws´house is filthy. Ok, son does not visit until the house is clean.

He is my son, my rules. Same goes for you, new dad. Your son your freegin´rulz!!

In my case, the inlaws are some of the most worthless and lazy people around. We live 2 sois away. They never came to help wife with newborn. Even the neighbors and the burmese maids we meet at the local park comment on why they are not helping wife with a new baby.

Now, 17 months later, thank god, we still control the baby. I do not get into arguments, but the inlaws see my face and they know not to do "it" again.

In your case, you have options. Your English is better than mine, you have Thai papers, you have a brain. Use it.

Remove all emotional reasons for your next big decision. Use fact.

PM me if you want to get together for a more direct discussion.

[lannarebirth]

I think you know what you need to do.

Take your wife and child back to whichever western country you are also citizen of. There you can earn what is necessary to provide for your family and get the education you seek. Your inability to provide financila seciruty for your family means that you are now beholding to others, who you see as unfit, to raise your child. That's just not going to work out, is it?

[think_too_mut]

It's only one side of the story. If the OP is despised by everyone, including his baby, he could be doing something wrong.

My inlaws, grandparents are illiterate peasants but I can't imagine them taking my daughter on a motorbike. It was them who taught her (with a bit of force) to use helmet when riding a bicycle, even when it had training wheels on.

They would repel a stray dog if it comes near the house when their grandchildren are playing outside.

I can't tell how much love and care flows from them. My wife's sister and her 2 kids live there permanently, they enjoy grandparents care, respect them (as they respect everyone) and I am at a brink of doubting the whole story.

[britmaveric]

Well not lot you can do mate - you are not there nor plan to be. So your son is living with the grandparents and looks like he will be following their rules, not yours. It is their home after all and they are taking responsibility for his care. That being said you have two choices - leave them with the grandparents or take him with you. You have to decide what will be best in the long run for your son - most of the time that is not what is best for yourself. One of the hazards of being a parent - sacrifice for the lil one.

[greenwanderer108]

Thank you everyone for your valuable input.

My options seem to be

A. Take charge, safely and cleverly, avoiding all conflict, and adjust accordingly, yet ever safely which implies coming up with an alternative environment that I find fit. Ultimately, USA looks right, but without the mom, that will be a highly difficult task. Even with her, it still calls for a lengthy process dealing with her visa and immigration to even get to that. Phuket is / has never been ideal environment to raise my son, not under such circumstances.

If I were well off with steady work, and could afford my own house and car inside a safe, gaited neighborhood without the lingering yet legit fear of some traffic tragedy waiting to happen, perhaps...but even than, Phuket, where money rules over even the most fundamental of values--that be safety, life, harmony, future, and open mindedness--is not ideal.

Patience perforce...safety first, I need to think of the propre logistics and come up with a short term solution that can harmoniously transit into the long term healthy solution.

or Option B:

Suck it in, waiver my responsibility and rights as a father giving the narrow minded inlaws, who are limited and driven by small island materialistic mentality, their way with my son. Disappear back to my own unsure yet promising path, and just hope that I'll have access to my son in the future, when I may be more prepared and stable to provide a high standard of security, and hope to pop back into his life and take over then.

Am I looking at it wrong or?

My heart is saying A by my logic is saying B. Can anyone advise me on international law? I don't want it to escalate to the point of child abduction and be at risk some retaliation measures they surely would ensue if I were to my foot down openly, but I say again. He is my son, whom has my surname and has been under my guidance and care (financially and physically) since his birth, that is until recently for me allowing such arrangements and making the decision to depart to Samut Songkhram.

So I guess the main decision for me icomes down to deciding that I'm not going back to University in January or am. If I am, than I'm left with no choice but to waiver everything to option B. If I am not, than I can make other decisions to become a responsible father, as I once was, making ends meet wherever I see fit.

Thanks again,

[TommyGun]

It all depends on how much you want your son. If what you have said is genuine, then i personally would be in there like a shot.

[solo siam]

I don't think anyone has suggested anything like Option B, which is a rather strange way out and will likely see you uninvolved in your sons life. You're struggling to be in his life already, do you think it will get any easier the more entrenched the grandparents get?

I wouldn't say that money rules in Phuket particularly more than anywhere else in Thailand, its just more abundant.

No need for a gated community, you don't have to start big - Why not put some feelers out for work down here in Phuket, see whats available.

[JimmyCA]

The OP provides a vivid narative of the hopelesness of life with Thais.

Well done!

[JimmyCA]

Not only have the ignored my instruction they are also endangering his health by trying to feed a small baby milk that has sat out for more than an hour & has now started to turn bad.

Leaving spoiled milk in a baby bottle is inviting trouble.

[qualtrough]

The OP provides a vivid narative of the hopelesness of life with Thais.

Well done!

JimmyCa provides a vivid example of a total idiot with nothing positive to contribute to this or any other thread on this forum as it is clear that he has a strong dislike of Thais. Why don't you go play somewhere else if you have nothing useful to contribute??

To the OP: I think things really got off on the wrong foot for you when you had a child without getting married, and were unable to adequately provide for your family. Although your in-laws sound like total jerks, that was not a good start and it is probably too late to repair any damage. I don't have an answer for your problem, but wish you luck.

Several people commented that the OP should be able to find a decent job with his dual citizenship and language skills, but it is not always so easy. Almost all Thai employers are in thrall to university degrees and will hire someone with one over someone without one even if the person without the degree is vastly more qualified in all other respects. I knew a young Thai woman who had lived in the UK and attended a college there for 2-3 years but did not graduate. She was very intelligent and knowledgeable and spoke perfect Thai and English like a native. She had a terrible time finding a decent job in BKK as everyone wanted to see a degree. Last time I saw her she was working a lowly sales position, tremendously underemployed. The OP may indeed be able to do better, but it is not necessarily a shoe-in here.

Edited October 8, 2007 by qualtrough

[solo siam]

Its a bit different in Phuket where the English language skills are way more important than a degree, especially working for a farang company.

[onethailand]

Both qualtrough and Solo Siam are correct. I experienced the former in Bangkok - an MBA is a golden ticket to management even if you've had zero experience in the real world. In my case I ran rings around the MBA and he quit after one day. But in Phuket, English-speaking Thais are in very high demand in the hotel business.

To the OP - I know someone else who was in exactly the same situation as you - a very tough position to be in. However, if the issue which is causing most of the problem is the helmet issue, I would suggest you take a moment to step back and realize that the grandparents love their grandchild as much as they love their daughter, perhaps as much as you love your son - and that they are unlikely to put him at any major risk - so if the father is not the reckless sort, I would consider giving in on that issue even though I personally would not be happy either.

Once they see that you are willing to bend a bit and make an effort to understand them, their attitude may change. It's a lot harder than it seems - but I think that if you can make that extra effort it will pay off.

Your option B is not really workable.

[markwhite]

If I were well off with steady work, and could afford my own house and car inside a safe, gaited neighborhood

What other options might be available for housing for you and him? Does it have to be your own gated house and a car?

where money rules over even the most fundamental of values--that be safety, life, harmony, future, and open mindedness--is not ideal.

Which is why I asked you the last question.

Patience perforce...safety first, I need to think of the propre logistics and come up with a short term solution that can harmoniously transit into the long term healthy solution.

Maybe if you get the short-term solution sorted out, the options for longer term solutions might widen.

when I may be more prepared and stable to provide a high standard of security

Does it have to be a high standard of security, or will 'higher than it is now' suffice? What would that look like compared to your comments in the first post?

Am I looking at it wrong or?

You're looking at it with your eyes and with your experience, hopes and wants. How can that be wrong? There may be other solutions, but that doesn't make you wrong. Just like your GPs don't think it's wrong to take the child out on a bike with no helmet.

If I am not, than I can make other decisions to become a responsible father, as I once was, making ends meet wherever I see fit.

Well, it works for many millions of other people out there, but it will be a balance of what you want and what is best for your son. It might be 'all you and leave your son where he is' or it might be 'forget your plans and do everything your son needs'.

Then again, it might be something in between.

Best of luck though. I would not enjoy being in the same situation :-(

Mark...

[Aussietraveller]

You have a tough decision to make, that will involve a sacrifice of some sort.

Your last post, listing option A and B is close to the mark.

Option A, taking control again will involve some conflict, but may be in the best interests of your child.

It will require you changing your career plans in the short term.

IMHO, i would have the child out of there so fast and into a better environment.

My child, my rules, no exceptions. (you cannot enforce this however if you give full time care to the grandparents)

Option B:

Can you live with it?

[think_too_mut]

IMHO, i would have the child out of there so fast and into a better environment.

My child, my rules, no exceptions. (you cannot enforce this however if you give full time care to the grandparents)

It is mother's child too. And the child is in her house, with her family.

The OP has antagonized everyone, including the child itself.

IMO, too much credit has been given to the OP and his side of the story.

[greenwanderer108]

It is mother's child too. And the child is in her house, with her family.

The OP has antagonized everyone, including the child itself.

IMO, too much credit has been given to the OP and his side of the story.

Yes my son is his mother's son as well, but he certainly is not an 'it' as your chosen terminology! I have not misrepresented their side that I know, I have simply stated there viewpoint as I understand it. The issue was/is about safety standards.

My side: I feel that riding on a motorbike without a helmet is an unacceptable behavior, practice, and habit no matter how fast or slow one goes or the distance they are traveling. I forbid it with my own son no matter who is looking after him PERIOD.

Inlaws side: There is no harm in riding around the neighborhood at low speeds, helmet or no helmet, especially if you're only going short distance. I have no right to enforce rules for them. They know what's best. I'm just making problems--after all, there is little to no risk in driving him 2 of 3 houses away.

My side: If it was really that near, why must a motorcycle be taken. I want my son raised with a emphasis on conscious habits not laziness. If you really must go out so near, walk or take a bicycle (I have no rejections if someone wants to take him on a bicycle ride inside the neighborhood.

Inlaws side: If I'd just buy a car, there would be less excuse to take a motorcycle.

My side: I'll get a car when the time is right. Even with a car, there will be an even bigger laziness issue i.e. going only 3 houses down.

Inlaws side: He is their grandson that has lived in their house since April (four months). They know what's best for him (though they saw him some three times his whole first year) and I am not a responsible parent because I don't have a car and didn't send the mom a salary before she got a job.

My side: He is my son that I have taken care of financially (solely) and physically (co parent) since conception up to 14 months old. I was reluctant to enter into the inlaw arrangement because the mom insisted that I and her son had adapt to her and her desire to be near her family (I have my own Thai relatives in central Thailand, nevermind them.) I did not enter into this arrangement because I had no other choice, I entered into to appease the kid's mom, which I now realize as a mistake.

Anyway, it's not a matter of going just three or four or five houses down for I know that's buttering it up to make it sound small. I have no doubt in my mind that they're not afraid or hesitant to take him for longer drives as I'm sure they have, and the older he gets, the more confident they'll get to take him further.

Just as many residents in Yala, Patani, and Naratiwat have little fear of being bombed, so have I never met a Thai afraid or Thai roads or other Thai drivers. 'That only happens to other people' is not a mentality my son should have about any issues.

However, as others pointed out, unless I take charge now or soon, all my ethics and morals will mean squat as long as he's in their household, which is not necessarily horrible in all aspects, though it certainly feels so to me now, but, it certainly won't last long if I'm to do the best thing as a father--so I'm leaning.

Appreciate the constructive angles and point of views from all perspectives. Nothing is set in stone yet. I'd hate to make even worse mistakes and regret, so keep it coming everyone

Edited October 8, 2007 by greenwanderer108

[mr_hippo]

Seems like you never married the mom of your son, coz you refer to your son's mom and not as your wife.

Correct, I haven't yet married her legally or traditionally as I'm not convinced that we will last happily ever after, which could be a major cause of some of our issues (cultural implications)--so I have considered. The plan is if/when I ever decide to migrate to the USA, ideally it would be as a family, and yes I'd have to either marry her before hand or marry her in the USA as far as legal wise (K1 or K3 visa decision).

S

Well, why did you engage in an activity (sex) that could result in something that can last (a baby)? Most of us enter marriage/long term partnerships in the hope that they will last, not thinking that that it will fail - failure to plan is planning to fail. All of us hope for 'happily ever after' but all of us have our off days, generally most of us live happily ever after most of the time.

Now, at the grand old age of 24, you have 'possibly' ruined 3 lives - the baby's, the girl's and yours. I do not know any of the parties involved so cannot give any advice in this situation. For future reference - learn to think with the brain that is between your ears and not the brain between your legs!

[think_too_mut]

To greenwanderer:

You are Thai, I am not.

I can't imagine myself sinking into the trouble with my inlaws like you have.

[pete_r]

It is mother's child too. And the child is in her house, with her family.

The OP has antagonized everyone, including the child itself.

IMO, too much credit has been given to the OP and his side of the story.

I was going to write something along these lines too... Maybe the big issue for the grandparents is the fact that the OP had a child with their daughter outside of marriage, and is not providing adequate support for his family. I don't know the parties, but somehow doubt they will listen to motorcycle safety talks until the bigger issues are addressed.