Urgent / Critical Situation As A Parent: Need Expert Advice

[qualtrough]

Aside from all the other issues I agree with the OP about the motorcycle issue. I drive here everyday and it is unbelievable the stunts motorcycle drivers pull all the time. Many of them are entirely unconscious of what they are doing. Some of the worst ones are the ones who are just driving a short distance with the kids or putting around. I see fresh outlines of dead motorcyclists every day. Just list to JS 100 sometime like I did the other night. Reports of dead motorcyclists were coming in about every 5 minutes that evening.

[think_too_mut]

Off the topic, my wife and daughter just came back from Siam Water Park. I can see them over the webcam.

Not only them, there are 4 more children and 2 more mothers from the village (my wife's place) that came to stay at my house in BKK for 2 weeks, while the schools are closed.

The tide is being reversed - they want to come to BKK and enjoy the city. Not us going upcountry.

[greenwanderer108]

Well, why did you engage in an activity (sex) that could result in something that can last (a baby)? Most of us enter marriage/long term partnerships in the hope that they will last, not thinking that that it will fail - failure to plan is planning to fail. All of us hope for 'happily ever after' but all of us have our off days, generally most of us live happily ever after most of the time.

Now, at the grand old age of 24, you have 'possibly' ruined 3 lives - the baby's, the girl's and yours. I do not know any of the parties involved so cannot give any advice in this situation. For future reference - learn to think with the brain that is between your ears and not the brain between your legs!

When I found out I was going to be a father, it was one of the greatest days of my life. When my son was born, so was the grandest feeling I've ever experienced. My son was/is not a mistake but a gift of life that I was and am prepared to raise into a decent thinking man. My personal life and his mom's are only of secondary importance.

Maybe the big issue for the grandparents is the fact that the OP had a child with their daughter outside of marriage, and is not providing adequate support for his family. I don't know the parties, but somehow doubt they will listen to motorcycle safety talks until the bigger issues are addressed.

This is not the case or atleast a very small variable which is seems impossible to solve as long as I allow my son to live in their household.

I have always provided adequate support for son and his mom when we were a family for the first year. I still am paying for his milk and diapers. 90 percent of his clothes and toys... me... the house's first and only air conditioner, microwave, matresses ...me, these material things are beside the point.

It wouldn't matter if I were Bill Gates, and as long as I had allowed my son to stay in their house for however long--a day or four months. Taking him out on the motorbike without a helmet is / has been normal behavior for the inlaws (and a majority of Thai people in general) This is a clear case with cousins and kids in the neighborhood who don't even think twice about such behavior.

If you're in Thailand and in a Thai neighborhood, take a look around, why don't you, then tell me that if I were however rich, they'd change their thinking and allow me to set rules for them.

Just for the record, the way the kid's mom and her brother were raised was not directly and solely by the inlaws. Just as seems to be the tendancy with my own son here in Phuket, most of the raising seems to have been done half in this household and half in relatives home on the fathers side, which is basically showering and spoiling the kids to death...in Thai we call this Ao Jai Luuk เอาใจลูก My Thai mother was almost the same exact way, with the exception of being naturalized American several years before I was born and thus having exposure and some Americanized values...however I'm thankful now that I had my father there to give teach me value in work ethic, earning, and to be diligent and independent, something that my kid's mom and her brother clearly lack.

I'm not saying that the kid's mom and brother are hopeless humans, but I certainly won't have my son unable to provide for himself and take responsibility for his actions as an adult--a value that I believe should be gradually instilled from an early age.

[mr_hippo]

Well, why did you engage in an activity (sex) that could result in something that can last (a baby)? Most of us enter marriage/long term partnerships in the hope that they will last, not thinking that that it will fail - failure to plan is planning to fail. All of us hope for 'happily ever after' but all of us have our off days, generally most of us live happily ever after most of the time.

Now, at the grand old age of 24, you have 'possibly' ruined 3 lives - the baby's, the girl's and yours. I do not know any of the parties involved so cannot give any advice in this situation. For future reference - learn to think with the brain that is between your ears and not the brain between your legs!

When I found out I was going to be a father, it was one of the greatest days of my life. When my son was born, so was the grandest feeling I've ever experienced. My son was/is not a mistake but a gift of life that I was and am prepared to raise into a decent thinking man. My personal life and his mom's are only of secondary importance. Now where did you learn that 'Cop Out 101'?

[i'm not saying that the kid's mom and brother are hopeless humans, but I certainly won't have my son unable to provide for himself and take responsibility for his actions as an adult--a value that I believe should be gradually instilled from an early age. and you are a shining example?

[Aussietraveller]

Stephen,

You are being proactive about finding a solution, and i commend you for that.

I saw your ad in the jobs wanted section. It seems well worded, and i hope that this produces some good results for you.

[think_too_mut]

When I found out I was going to be a father, it was one of the greatest days of my life. When my son was born, so was the grandest feeling I've ever experienced. My son was/is not a mistake but a gift of life that I was and am prepared to raise into a decent thinking man. My personal life and his mom's are only of secondary importance.

When my daughter was born, it took 2 bottles of Dom Perignon to celebrate. I was alone in Tokyo, overworked, 1am.

Then, all the steam and the winds into her sails.

[sonnyJ]

It's only one side of the story. If the OP is despised by everyone, including his baby, he could be doing something wrong.

My inlaws, grandparents are illiterate peasants but I can't imagine them taking my daughter on a motorbike. It was them who taught her (with a bit of force) to use helmet when riding a bicycle, even when it had training wheels on.

They would repel a stray dog if it comes near the house when their grandchildren are playing outside.

I can't tell how much love and care flows from them. My wife's sister and her 2 kids live there permanently, they enjoy grandparents care, respect them (as they respect everyone) and I am at a brink of doubting the whole story.

Pardon for a private detail, but Where are you from really, sounds as so nice place?

[think_too_mut]

It's only one side of the story. If the OP is despised by everyone, including his baby, he could be doing something wrong.

My inlaws, grandparents are illiterate peasants but I can't imagine them taking my daughter on a motorbike. It was them who taught her (with a bit of force) to use helmet when riding a bicycle, even when it had training wheels on.

They would repel a stray dog if it comes near the house when their grandchildren are playing outside.

I can't tell how much love and care flows from them. My wife's sister and her 2 kids live there permanently, they enjoy grandparents care, respect them (as they respect everyone) and I am at a brink of doubting the whole story.

Pardon for a private detail, but Where are you from really, sounds as so nice place?

Wang Nam Yen.

Irrelevant, what I have been seeing and hearing is much like that. Love for kids and outcasts gently sent away.

[fletchsmile]

Wanderer, I totally agree about the motorbike, but let's be honest there's bigger issues to deal with and first things first. That's a symptom not a cause.

You've got yourself a real head and heart dilemma here. There's also some pretty reasonable advice above from what I've read. (Part of the reason for that BTW is we all make mistakes, so you're not alone). It's what you do with your mistakes and where you take life afterwards that counts. Luckily between us we also make enough mistakes to be able to learn off each other.

So the first positive is you've realised you're out of your depth, and looking for advice. As much as we're mostly a decent bunch on TV, to be honest we're not the best place to advise you. Your friends and parents are better placed to do so. I'd recommend the latter, even tho' I rarely ask them advice myself. A couple of reasons why: 1) If it all goes pear shaped they might feel bad they weren't there for you, regardless of whether realistically they could help 2) If they care about you, they'll do whatever they can to help, and I think you've already took a step in realising you need help from quite a few places if this is going to work out.

A couple of additional suggestions:

- My first reaction was similar to Boo's: get yourself out of there, get your own place. She's usually good for advice. On reflection tho' that might be more the heart than the head talking, and I'd wait a while before taking that option. After all, legally you've little leg to stand on, your not married and you would struggle to provide your son what he needs at this point. There's quite a few more things to be planned before you consider that step.

-If you start with the end in mind, what you're really looking for is a wife and son, i.e your own family. My first choice would be to get yourself to Bangkok, and talk to your lady about how to make that happen. I assume you want the full family package, and not just your son. You need to talk it thru with your wife to realise your dreams together if possible or separately if not

- The other reason for trying to settle things thru your lady, is you're not going to reason with your grandparents. We all disagree with some of the things our other half's parents do and vice versa I'm sure. The best way of dealing with your parents-in-law across cultures in the early years is often to let her talk to her parents about anything you're uncomfortable with. Let's face it, she understands Thai culture and her parents much better than you do. You both need to learn to deal with your issues together. One key point I agree with is that they are your issues, i.e yours and your lady's - you perhaps need to help her recognise her responsibilities a little more, tho' I'd tread carefully how you try and do this. Focus on the positives of what you want together, not the negatives of what she should be doing and isn't.

- In fairness take a look at yourself from the grandparents' perspective. They probably also understand foreigners less than you do Thais. They've raised children as someone else pointed out - you haven't. You've also got yourself out of your depth. So as much as your heart is in the right place - you don't have a leg to stand on as far as the grandparents are concerned or legally.

- To deal with the legal aspects and your son's grandparents your probably going to need your lady to get thru it in any sort of smooth way, or even rough way. You need some courageous conversations with her now. What's your future together if any? What are you jointly going to do with your son? If you can't resolve those none of the paths will be easy. You need to decide if you are willing to put in what it takes to make it work with her. Think thru carefully what you would say to her. Tell her how much she means, and how much your son does, and how you feel. Put your heart on your sleeve. If you want something badly you'll do what it takes.

Try and work it out with your lady, and see how the rest falls into place. If not you've got some tough decisions. If it comes down to a fight you'll probably all lose out one way or another. If she's worth being the mother of your son and your husband you've a good chance, if not - then maybe it wasn't meant to be.

Anyway good luck. Even if your dreams don't work out first time, it's an opportunity to learn from and make ###### sure it does second time.

Edited October 8, 2007 by fletchthai68

[sonnyJ]

It's only one side of the story. If the OP is despised by everyone, including his baby, he could be doing something wrong.

My inlaws, grandparents are illiterate peasants but I can't imagine them taking my daughter on a motorbike. It was them who taught her (with a bit of force) to use helmet when riding a bicycle, even when it had training wheels on.

They would repel a stray dog if it comes near the house when their grandchildren are playing outside.

I can't tell how much love and care flows from them. My wife's sister and her 2 kids live there permanently, they enjoy grandparents care, respect them (as they respect everyone) and I am at a brink of doubting the whole story.

Pardon for a private detail, but Where are you from really, sounds as so nice place?

Wang Nam Yen.

Irrelevant, what I have been seeing and hearing is much like that. Love for kids and outcasts gently sent away.

well. thats not much of an answer is it?

Just I think it would be a disgrace for Japanese if you still hold that..

Edited October 8, 2007 by sonnyJ

[sylvafern]

Lots of different opinions here - amazingly so really, as in my opinion the safety issue of your child is paramount, not to mention he is obviously being brought up with values that you do not agree with. Just because you agreed for the grandparents to help raise the child does not mean that you can not change your mind now if you do not feel your son is receiving the care that he should be getting. Just because it is culture to give the grandparents respect, does not mean you need to sit by while they are putting your child in harm's way .... how would you feel if he does come off the bike and is killed or permanently disabled or brain damaged. If you choose 'option B' and something like this happens, how would you feel knowing that you didn't step in and do something about it when you had the chance?

You are his father and if you want to play a positve and active role in your son's life then you need to do something pro-active about it NOW. Don't wait for something serious to happen before making this decision. For now, I don't think you have any choice but to delay university. You are young and have plenty of opportunity to complete this in the future, even as a single parent if it comes to this. Yes, even at 19 months your son will have a bond with his grandparents and for the person who made a comment about this, it is ridiculous to think that this will not affect the child. While he may not actually remember exact details long-term, it will impact on the child's personal, social and emotional development. While it will be tough at first, kids are resiliant (sp?) and he will soon adapt to his new living environment if you choose to take him away from his grand parents and live with you. Whether or not this causes huge family issues is irrelevant .... the needs of your son come first and you are his father so you have more of a right than grand-parents to say how he will be brought up. You will, however, need to involve the mother in the decision making process which I imagine will be difficult.

Good-luck

[cmsally]

At the end of the day he is your child and not the grandparents child. Personally I wouldn't have had anybody bringing up my children other than myself and my husband. The longer you leave it the more you will regret it. It will worsen your relationship with the child and the grandparents to leave him there. You will be bearing a big grudge against them. What about parents on the OP's side are they an option to help out?

[SoCal]

GW,

No offense, but nobody (wife & grandparents) seems to respect you. You should ask yourself why this is, what role you have had in it, and how you can fix it.

You may not see it, or agree, but you have taken the easy way out, in allowing your wife to move to Phuket, and her parents to raise the baby, while you ponder your academic future. I know it's not 100% that way, but there is a little truth in it, and it is probably how they see it.

I would think a good start is getting your financial situation in order, and providing a viable home for your baby. It is really your responsibility as a man and a father.

As to your current predicament with the inlaws, if you turn over the raising of your baby, then not sure what say you have in the raising. Sure it is your baby, but it is also your wifes, and her parents are becomming the defacto parents while you and your wife are away pursuing your vocational and academic pursuits.

I wish you luck, your heart seems to be in the right place. That said, you are probably not a lucky man (neither am I), so get to work doing what you need to the hard way.

SoCal

[greenwanderer108]

Over the past two days, I have kept civil and out of everyone's way (except for my son), though he's ever attached to his grandma. I know they love him a lot, that's never been a question, but I want my son to recieve a balance the right kinds of love, somewhat like the extremes I recieved. His grandma does have some values, they're not all bad, the motorcycle attitude is what eats at me the most

Been thinking much, but not coming to any solid conclusions. I did talk to his mom real late the night of the incident and she still seems so set on our initial plan of me going back to uni for ultimately a better future for us. I'm sure if I actually did happen upon a contracted job here that would allow me to atleast rent a safe house for us here, she wouldn't object, but outside of Phuket, she won't likely budge, which also really annoys me knowing I never wanted to live here in the first place, nor do I plan to get old here with the family...just not my cup of tea. For vacation, sure! I just don't want my kid growing up with a narrow small island mentality. But anyway, that's a different issue.

And though she admits that ultimately a western style upbringing will do our son better, 'now he's too young' and he's better off with family (her family) than someone we don't even know while we try to prepare ourselves better.

Sure, in the USA, the opportunities would be a little more widespread to a high school graduate with some college, but I'm still in no place to jump on a plane with him, particularly with her and all the visa hassles/issues. Without a degree, Phuket just doesn't seem to present anything for me as I'm sure I'll find all over the world as time marches on. And unless something magical happens, it just doesn't seem like something stable on this island is going to cut it for me...we'll keep the door open for a little bit.

I've been getting by here in Thailand (central) for some 5-6 years on teaching and writing months and years at a time, been quite lucky to get around the whole degree stigma to get semi-consistent work keeping me going...but I've also been lucky that no major emergencies-incidents that were beyond have come in the way (with the exception of the unfair scholarship policy that had all my hopes crushed).

My life here has been sufficient, but certainly it's not the best thing for a son and family who I hope can be a free and wise thinker with an edge over his generation. My brain knows that education is my best ticket up (not so much the education, but the bloody piece of paper)

Both paths are hard. Even going back to University will be physically (making ends meet to meet tuition and living as a full time student!!) and emotionally hard (detachment from my son)...but at the end of three years (max), I'll have way more doors than if I do as has been.

The idea was at that point, my son would just start to be at the age of memory and so it would be just the right timing for me to be in there and provide to an acceptable standard. Also by then, his mom would have been working for long enough to have some credit to her name and, thus having less hassle with things such a visa.

It's a good thing I'm off for October as I don't have to rush this decision, but I don have obligation in November for teaching back in Samut Songkhram. Should be able to figure things out eventually. Thanks again for all the angles and opinions--all have been taken in and food for thought.

Regards,

[bina]

green wanderer,

i'm a bit confused still so maybe u are too...

i think that maybe u have to draw up a few lists to organize yourself cause u seem to have a salad of stuff in a bowl

'the mom' - what exactly do u want from her?

what are your expectations from her towards u?

if u are aiming to study and work to support your son in the future, then u will end up doing like lots of thai men and women, living away from home for the hope of a distant future, 3 yrs old is not the age of memory as babies bond frm age 0 but u can slowly reintroduce yourself later, though it will take time and may not seem natural.

do u see yourself together with mom and child?

or perhaps, visiting rights like u live in separate house near child (once u have reached your goal in studying and job etc cause it doesnt sound like u really want to be with her, just the child)?

what happens if mom meets someone new and they get married?

what about custody of your child? (there are legal questions here as the mother is a single mother with a supportive father of the child being you but things change).

what happens if u meet someone that fits what u are looking for ?

her logic may be correct: extended family that are loving... ok, they dont have all the values that u want, but u might not have all the values the mom wants (family closeness, elderly folks included in family, a less 'scaredycat' way of living -in the states everyone is afraid of everything from the water to minor cuts to whatever so yeah i agree helmets are a thing, but i had that with my inlaws and th seat belt thing... my kids in the end trained the grandparents thru my pressure on them but u cant control every single thing in your life so if u choose one way, u might have to give up control on other things...

since u do speak thai and do have some thai'ish ways i'm sure u got from your mom, maybe what is happening is less a cultural thing and more of u being suddenly very american as a reaction? to them.

... the way u list all the values and things u want for your child... give up on some of them, like the mom says, and try to see more of the good in what they can give your child that american children miss out on... its not a permanent situation you're in, but u do have to straighten out the legal aspects of the child care just in case.

and make sure of course that u dont have an other until its all worked out....

good luck bina

[greenwanderer108]

Bina you did point out some good points, particularly the potential setbacks that would make a difficult situation even worse if/when I'd get back to Uni...

Assuming that I were able to come back and simply have to start a new at 3-4 years old, considering I'd have a world of options as a Uni graduate with much experience my plate to add, life wouldn't be so cloudy...

...but... in the case of...

...her meeting, mating, and possibly marrying someone--someone who is capable and willing to buy her a car and shower her family with money, vip ticket to their hearts--that would just be the end of me as far as her family's concerned.

...me, a luk kreung at an international uni, no mia holding me back as in the ol' days--sure there's lots of candy that crosses my path as has back in the day, just being in bangkok with the friends is hard enough to resist. Anyhow, with my son in mind, I think I've got enough experience and will to know to draw the fun-serious line, so I'd hope...

more worried about her than myself (I know how to break hearts, where her heart has only ever been broken) though I'm sure she's more worried about me than herself. Difference is, I'm at her mercy with the son, not the other way around.

So what can I do, to assure that my legal rights are never at stake? I have no right to control the mom's heart if she were ever to decide to be done with me once and for all but as far as the son, that's my (our) seed. My son has my surname, but his house registration (tabien bahn) is in this phuket house for now. Aside from his legalized Thai/English birth certificates, I have signed some other document binding me (affadavit) to be responsible for him til age 18.

Certainly, it wouldn't be easy for some rich guy just to decide to adopt my son without me knowing anything right??? Or would it make a difference if I just married her (regestration) to bind us even more for the sake of our son. She, like many Thai girls I have known, the materialistic mentality again-- get bored easily...little will power and all's it would take, I fear is a well off guy with a soft heart to appeal to her and her parents... and then, it wouldn't take much from there...

Janet Jackson's 'What would have you done for me lately' would be their song of the week for me, than I'd join the club of the other dads (including my own half brother in Thailand as well as my American sister's husband) of I had a son (or daughter) long ago, but the mom/kid just disappeared from life with their new lover/bread winner.

I guess if I fear such, I'm just gonna have to deal with her directly to ever be able to come to the right decision before its too late.

...what ever to do...

[sonnyJ]

This has been surprisingly civilized read so far. I too would like to thank all whom have added their very thoughtful and eloquent responses to OP and to this day and age. We are making history after all..

Mr. G, how about going to the top of the mountain and writing a book.

You know what I'm talking about, sincerely.

Peace.