Whats The Best Voip International Service You Use From Thailand?

[Gerry290]

Hi

Anyone like to share and talk about (in not to techie terms, as I am not techie), about the various VOIP services you use from Thailand. (I do not mean exclusive to Thai voip providers, any international voip supplier).

How is the call quality, how person you call international hears your voice, quality of how you hear their voice?

And anything else related to the topic, especially how to get better quality, on the very unreliable thai ISP providers.

I ll share my first.

As some regular posters may know, I telework into Ireland, where by business is located, the work I do was 90% phone/email based, so living out here does not make a massive difference, (except for the crap internet situation, which is getting worse).

First off I use an Irish voip company called blueface.ie who are an excellent company and since over 2 years, this allowed me an Irish phone number for my business. (these days, I have a call answer service answer in dublin, and i divert my business number to them, however 2 mins on the online blueface pbx, diverts back so I can answer, or divert to thai mobile.

as i say blueface is an excellent company with great customer serivce. Only problem with me over there in Thailand and their IT center in Dublin, there is an unavoidable (as far as I know), drop in quality on my calls. The main complaint is that people in Ireland I call, complain they cannot hear my voice good, and that my line is very bad, however I always hear them perfect.

I found out this is because my call has to run through a number of servers on the way to Ireland that blueface does not control so any problems along the way, can <deleted> up my voice quality, and ist out of my and blueface control.

Then I find out Thailand as compared to other countires a slower upload speed, which again makes my voice to my caller sound bad quality, and so bad recently they just cannot hear me.

I use softphone over my PC with quality USB plantronic head set for my calls. and in Pattaya my TTT Maxnet has now been upgraded to 2000/512 approx. But this past week TTT Maxnet admit to some problem on their end about reaching international web sites, and I also hear in Pattaya they are adding many new customers, but not increasing the bandwith and gear they need to support the increase in new users accounts, hence the slow internet. 1 year ago in Pattaya my 1029/512 had better quality.

I decided in the past week to use Skype Out for calls to Ireland, and Skype Out seems to give me better quality. So I will use it as the main outbound calling option for the moment.

I have been seeking more options.

I discovered there is a company Voxbone.com who have their own network and own servers going internetational that is 100% only for VOIP calls and configured to maximise voip quality.

Now Voxbone.com only deal with bigger companies and call centers, not solo teleworkers, so they referred me to 3 VOIP resellers they have. all do the same, so i have to read up on them this weekend and check them out.

One they recommeded is called voipvoip.com

So thinking is if voipvoip.com is a voxbone reseller and use this high power exclusive totally voxbone controlled international VOIP network, then the quality of the calls, especially the UPLOAD speed, which should make BETTER QUALITY VOIP Calls from Thailand to international, and maybe improve this problem I have of people not hearing my voice clear and bad quality on my voice, when I use irish voip supplier to call customers in ireland from thailand. voipvoip.com can get me an Irish virtual voip number for customers to call, which is a nice back up, howver I am more interested in the best OUTBOUND call quality I can find.

Does anyone use or know about any of the voxbone resellers? Any reports? Is the quality good?

Personally, I am not too worried if one voip supplier call rates is a little higher within reason, it is quality I want.

BACK UP CALLING PLAN FOR NET CRASH:

If you are like me and 100% dependent on Voip phone over internet to run your business etc. If internet crashes or even is working very slow which seems the norm in Pattaya these days. Or if there is another robbery and cutting down of TOT telecoms cable which cause over 2 weeks of internet outage in my area of Pattaya in August and land line phone not even working either. I had no emergency back up plan and it cost me dear in business. so being a non techie I had to push myself to find a back up plan. No net for me = no phone for work = almost like stranded on a desert island!!

Well one back up plan is to download skype out on my mobile.. sounds great, then I realised in home office which is also Wifi zone (prefer CAT cable connection for pc & notebook in office) I realised if net crash, then no local Wifi..so back to the GPRS which I think is not strong enough over here to support a decent skype call. GPRS for skype on mobile might work ok in europe etc, but over here not sure if I can depend on it. Anyone have experience on this to make a good comment?

My blueface.ie Irish VOIP supplier have a landline irish gateway number you can call, and through it make calls from your VOIP phone account as normal. Now Ireland for some reason on the regular telephone has very expensive intl phone rates from Thailand that 007 cheap service is 30 B a minute to landline (uk, usa is what 6 - 9 B a minute). So using that to call my VOIP landline would be getting expensive fast.

Then I happed upon a call back service called deedial.com which lets me call and irish landline for 2 Bhat a minute. So I think I have my back up solution.

If net in pattaya crashes for a week and phone line is gone too, due to more TOT cables getting cut down by theives.

Then deedial.com from my Thai mobile to my Blueface.ie Ireland landline gateway number to access by business voip account , and I can call away to customers in ireland, as normal. maybe not the ideal solution, but it will help out if a big net problem happens or even if the net gets slower and slower which it seems to be in pattaya. no way is my net the 2000/512 it is supposed to be. (great too, you pay for 2000kps a month, you get about 50% less on the speed, they charge you as normal, and no chance of a refund or rebate for screwing the customer... big downfall of this country, and tolerated so not to cause "face loosing" situation.. until that attitude changes, it will stop this place hitting its full economic potential)

So with my deedial to voip landline gateway at 2 B a minute which is best deal I can find to Irish land line, and an aircard for laptop to download emails. I think I have my solution in place for emergency back up, in case more internet slow down or crashes <deleted> up my PC Voip systems.

Any extra ideas for back up plans?

Cheers

Gerry

[mmkin]

I use pfingo.com to call to UK, Singapore, China and Malaysia and i encounter smooth calls even during peak internet hours. They are currently offering free 6 months trial and you get S$3 worth of free IDD calls and $5 worth of SMS. They are new but constantly upgrading their system.

Try it. I highly recommend this service.

You can click here to go directly to the site.

[Gerry290]

I was looking at pfingo.com web site tonight. So its voip service?

I was wondering, since their set up is located in Singapore, not too far from Thailand, Vs my voip supplier in Ireland with about 14 server gateways for my voice to pass through beofore it reaches my voip companies computers in ireland, & then on to the person i call. (my voice signal has to travel across the globe before it hits voip cos computers in dublin, as opposed to if I used pfringo.com with Singapore being near to us).

Would this idea, mean my voice call to ireland will sound clear, no noise, & better quality?

Dublin based voip supplier I use, say that alot of my bad voice quality on calls that the caller complains is bad, is caused by it passing through all the gateways across the globe before it hits dublin, and they have no control over the gateways, so one little problem along the way witn a gateway, will give me lower quality guaranteed.

So logically if voip supplier is in Singapore, and of high quality, then it may result in higher quality?

(or have I picked this idea up wrong?????)

Thanks

Gerry

[mmkin]

I was looking at pfingo.com web site tonight. So its voip service?

I was wondering, since their set up is located in Singapore, not too far from Thailand, Vs my voip supplier in Ireland with about 14 server gateways for my voice to pass through beofore it reaches my voip companies computers in ireland, & then on to the person i call. (my voice signal has to travel across the globe before it hits voip cos computers in dublin, as opposed to if I used pfringo.com with Singapore being near to us).

Would this idea, mean my voice call to ireland will sound clear, no noise, & better quality?

Dublin based voip supplier I use, say that alot of my bad voice quality on calls that the caller complains is bad, is caused by it passing through all the gateways across the globe before it hits dublin, and they have no control over the gateways, so one little problem along the way witn a gateway, will give me lower quality guaranteed.

So logically if voip supplier is in Singapore, and of high quality, then it may result in higher quality?

(or have I picked this idea up wrong?????)

Thanks

Gerry

Your best option is to give it a try since they are giving you S$3 free IDD credit. More than enough to test the service out

[onethailand]

Same problem for me - I am curious if finding a nearby VOIP host in Thailand or Singapore will improve the quality of the call.. like the OP I hear other people loud and clear but sometimes they can't seem to hear me.

I tried a Truphone call the other day on my True 2MB line - and still had a problem with them hearing me, but when I switched over to voipdiscount the line was clean both ways. And when I called my father in Taiwan on Skype yesterday, it was also loud and clear both ways though in the past Skype was usually not so good.

Also, anyone know of a service which can handle faxing? Rarely works properly with voipdiscount even though they have all the latest codecs - never works with any of the Thai services I've tried.

[croftrobin]

I use voipcheap - they have a few other companies voipstunt etc

They provide me with a free UK Voip number - not a geographical number however - this can be called for local rates in the UK as Voip phones are charged at local rate (but not free).

I can redirect my number to any phone mobile/landline in the civilised world

In Thailand, I can and do use the call back service often - eg : Outgoing calls - I make the call on the pc - my thai mobile rings , I answer, listen to the remote number ring and then talk, - no answer no charge. Costs me 2 x call charge = 1 UK pence per minute x 2 so 1 hour = uk 1.20 = 168 baht. Perfect call quality.

I could save half the money if I want to sit with a mic and headset next to my pc, but I'd rather wander around and do what I want while on the phone for an extra 70 baht an hour!

Incoming calls - answered on the PC - cost = 0 Baht, caller pays local UK rate

I prefer to redirect to my phone where I am, landline or mobile and am happy to pay 60p an hour for incoming calls

Very pleased and its a lot better than S k y p e!

You can add credit via paypal or use your Credit Crad - or your Kasikorn Bank Virtual Visa Card .

JMHO

[onethailand]

I use voipcheap - they have a few other companies voipstunt etc

Same company as voipdiscount - the only reason I chose voipdiscount is that calls to Thailand were free - each different "skin" has different promotions.

So far I've been pleased with the service, though some posters seem to think there will be a problem once the next deposit is made because they might "change the promotion".

[Sam125]

I am using Vonage to call the USA and France with no problems.

I pay $25 per month and receive unlimited calls to the US and western Europe. Others can call me on my US phone number

I have a TTT 2m connection.

[Gerry290]

Anyone have any other good "Call Back" services in Thailand, aside from deedial.com (nice to have alternatives).

I was thinking, (in the case of horrific slow internet which is happening too often in Pattaya or a total net crash like when the TOT telecoms cables with all the ISPs on it were stolen in Pattaya in Aug. no net 2 weeks approx for 14 days. and new CAT cable not due up my way for at least another 6 months if not more)

So I was thinking. re original back up plan, if net down and i have important biz calls to ireland, where I said I would use deedial.com to call my voip supplier landline gateway in ireland, which lets me use my voip account...

Why not just use the deedial.com call back service from Thai mobile to call landline of customers direct in ireland instead of me, using deedial to call my voip gateway and then use my voip account to call customers office. ( sort of "double jobbing" I am doing original plan), also to call Ireland mobiles is 17 Thai B a minute on deedial which is 38 cent (euro) a minute. (mobile is a bit expensive, but with my irish voip supplier Ireland - Mobile (O2) 18 cent a minute). ok so deedial is twice the price approx but as I said if then net goes down, or is too slow which is too often this year in pattaya, and I have business to do, then paying 38 cent a minute on deedial for a call , is a nice back up and alot better than loosing the business of a customer who too years of cold call & sales letters sent in ireland to get biz off. I think deedial.com will be a very nice back up option for me if net is down/slow).

Does anyone use the Thai voip company part of CAT Telecom I think, called call2call or cat2call.com?

They seem to have very low over the pc voip rates to ireland, but I did not try them yet. was wondering about the quality if anyone uses them?

I think skype out has improved alot recently. last year when net in pattaya was good, fast and not too many problems by irish voip was alot better than skype. now skype out. using paid credit to call irish mobile and landlines over pc with good headset is way better, and people in ireland can hear me loud and clear usually).

[gzu88bv]

Hi

Anyone like to share and talk about (in not to techie terms, as I am not techie), about the various VOIP services you use from Thailand. (I do not mean exclusive to Thai voip providers, any international voip supplier).

Cheers

Gerry

Gerry, have a look at Voip Buster.

[onethailand]

Gerry, have a look at Voip Buster.

Same as VoipStunt, VoipDiscount et al.

I have deecall - probably the same company as your deedial - but haven't really tested it out. Pretty cheap alternative in Thailand.

[Gerry290]

Gerry, have a look at Voip Buster.

Same as VoipStunt, VoipDiscount et al.

I have deecall - probably the same company as your deedial - but haven't really tested it out. Pretty cheap alternative in Thailand.

Yes, I have downloaded voipbuster last week, now they have voipbuster pro...

But here is the question again..

voipbuster is located in Germany or Benelux country I think.

So does that put us back into the same problem, ( id love a real answer to this question) if the voip supplier is over in europe and we call people in europe (ireland in my case) with the voip company located in europe, are we not back to the problem of my voice calling from thailand travelling through all these 12 or 14 gateways on the way to europe before it reaches europe based voip companys computers, give us the problem of person I call in europe complaining of noise, and very bad sound quality when I call, and saying they cannot hear me.

Does the fact a voip suppiler is based in Thailand or Singapore, and I call from thailand, and not far for my voice to reach voip co's computers, make for better quality of my voice to person I can in europe, so they hear me better and do not complain of bad sound, noise, low quality, and basically cannot hear me?

Thanks

Gerry

[mmkin]

Same problem for me - I am curious if finding a nearby VOIP host in Thailand or Singapore will improve the quality of the call.. like the OP I hear other people loud and clear but sometimes they can't seem to hear me.

I tried a Truphone call the other day on my True 2MB line - and still had a problem with them hearing me, but when I switched over to voipdiscount the line was clean both ways. And when I called my father in Taiwan on Skype yesterday, it was also loud and clear both ways though in the past Skype was usually not so good.

Also, anyone know of a service which can handle faxing? Rarely works properly with voipdiscount even though they have all the latest codecs - never works with any of the Thai services I've tried.

Forgot to mention PFINGO.COM has Faxing Service (both receiving and sending). You can also forward calls to your mobile phones like skype does.

[onethailand]

Same problem for me - I am curious if finding a nearby VOIP host in Thailand or Singapore will improve the quality of the call.. like the OP I hear other people loud and clear but sometimes they can't seem to hear me.

I tried a Truphone call the other day on my True 2MB line - and still had a problem with them hearing me, but when I switched over to voipdiscount the line was clean both ways. And when I called my father in Taiwan on Skype yesterday, it was also loud and clear both ways though in the past Skype was usually not so good.

Also, anyone know of a service which can handle faxing? Rarely works properly with voipdiscount even though they have all the latest codecs - never works with any of the Thai services I've tried.

Forgot to mention PFINGO.COM has Faxing Service (both receiving and sending). You can also forward calls to your mobile phones like skype does.

Gotta convert the document to a PDF - so that doesn't work for me. I need something which will handle a direct connection to a fax machine.

BTW, what's with the referrer link?

[pataya8]

The best one is Yahoo Voice in my opinion, especially lately crystal clear and only 1 cent a minute to USA and Europe. Minimum $5 deposit only

[Naam]

Gerry, have a look at Voip Buster.

has in my view best quality of all providers. crystal clear, phone on the other end rings within a fraction of a second once the last digit is dialled.

[natnuch]

hey guys, Anyone know off hand how I can get a bangkok (or a National local call cost) number to use for VOIP?

Cheers,

Nathan.

[Gerry290]

for fax I use efax.com

gets me ireland fax number, easy to use. efax.com probably can do a lot more feature wise that I even know about, I just use for basic fax send/receive.

any info from anyone yet, about my post above, where I ask if the voip company is located near to thailand, is that better for quality?

[rainman]

hey guys, Anyone know off hand how I can get a bangkok (or a National local call cost) number to use for VOIP?

Cheers,

Nathan.

I'm looking for the same thing, so far haven't found one...

[dsys]

So does that put us back into the same problem, ( id love a real answer to this question) if the voip supplier is over in europe and we call people in europe (ireland in my case) with the voip company located in europe, are we not back to the problem of my voice calling from thailand travelling through all these 12 or 14 gateways on the way to europe before it reaches europe based voip companys computers, give us the problem of person I call in europe complaining of noise, and very bad sound quality when I call, and saying they cannot hear me.

Does the fact a voip suppiler is based in Thailand or Singapore, and I call from thailand, and not far for my voice to reach voip co's computers, make for better quality of my voice to person I can in europe, so they hear me better and do not complain of bad sound, noise, low quality, and basically cannot hear me?

I think you are confusing POTS with VOIP. In VOIP the location of the signaling servers does not matter. The voice path does not travel from your "phone" to the companies servers to the callee's phone. {OK after re-reading this it does sound a bit like SS7 so dont flame me on this}

Most VOIP systems that consumers are using at the moment use SIP as the signalling method. What happens when you dial a number is that a message goes out to your VOIP companies proxy/forwarding server which returns the address of the person you are calling. Once you get this address your voice path goes through the data network. There is no special path to your VOIP provider.

So it should not matter where your service provider is located. What matters is the quality of the media gateways your VOIP service provider uses, the codecs they use etc.

Obviously the quality of the data network (read your ISP) comes into play here - whether the routers you pass through support RTP, RSVP and YESSIR. This has the largest influence on the quality of calls. You'll find that on a typical connection (data or voice) from Thailand to London there will be about a 12% packet loss and 4% discards. Going from London to Thailand very little loss or discards. That is why you are getting one way transmission.

You mentioned in your original post about a " voxbone controlled international VOIP network" this is a carrier grade solution for service providers. As a consumer the part that would hurt you is getting on to their network.

I would look at your ISP first - what is the contention ratio of your link? Can you reduce it by upgrading to a different package? Can you QOS tag your VOIP traffic on your router? Can you change your CODEC (G711 preferred) on your softphone? Try moving off a softphone onto a hardware solution.

Have you checked out your network connection for VOIp quality, if you get a MOS 3 or higher your doing good. Check out this link

<a href="http://www.testyourvoip.com" target="_blank">http://www.testyourvoip.com</a> and look at your detailed results.

Edited October 15, 2007 by dsys

[Gerry290]

DSYS

Thanks you kindly for your very informed post. :-)

You know this area well, and I really hope you post again, and we all can find out how to get better VOIP sound outbound voice quality to europe once and for all!

Just to remind other posters on here, I am asking these questions from the point of view of me and other posters who use voip for business, or to telework into europe or where ever. Some of us many not want our customers to know we spend alot of time out of our home country. Me, my biz when I was full time in Dublin (i am still am, as per my company, & have office there) is 90% phone based anyway, meeting customers only once or twice a year, so me being in Thailand, (where I can do muay thai all do, and telework all night, living cheap, in the sun), makes very little difference to the way my business works. However fact is serious, bad outbound voice calls, where customers complain they cannot here me, can be 1000s of euro/$$$, our pounds sterling lost. Hence, why I would consider, paying more for better service and clear voice.

Not meaning to be offensive, but please no, "I use freecallcheapiemickeymousevoip.com to call me mother in Shetland Islands on , and its free and usually good!" . :-)

Me, I can be on 4 - 6 hours of calls a from 3pm to the wee hours Mon - Fri, and Sat on occasion too, so consistent, also available, top quality, very reliable VOIP is critical to biz. ( and my mental health! LOL!)

I use Maxnet TTT approx 2020/512 Indy account. In Pattaya net speed terrible last few weeks, usually it is 50 -60% of what I pay for. I asked Maxnet a few weeks back, can my account be configured to give me better VOIP call quality, and also give me a faster UPLOAD speed, which I believe helps VOIP. MAXNET say NO, we cannot change anything on our account.

I saw on here yesterday, a different poster, said he upgraded from the Independent Maxnet Account to a PREMIER MAXNET account, and from next day when paid for upgrade kicked in, said speed was faster, less crashes or slow net, and better all round service. So perhaps that is an option.

DSYS asked:

what is the contention ratio of your link?

How do i find that out/ Apologies, I do not know what this means...

Again, This next idea I am guessing. I was speculating if I got another Maxnet, totally separate broadband same speed 2020/512, on separate TOT phone line. Uses Maxnet No 1 for all email, internet work, with a dedicated PC for that. Maxnet No 2 separate broadband though a spare PC I have (remove all applications from PC except for bare essentials, and any voip related enhancers), and use Softphone over that PC into Maxnet separate broadband No 2 line ONLY for VOIP calls. Meaning I have a dedicated PC, and 2000/512kpbs high speed internet connection only for my VOIP calls, with no incoming emails or online CRM ASP Database I used over internet, and other websites opening clogging up my exclusive PC/INTERNET connection 100% dedicated for VOIP only.

Now, since my voip quality is for my business spending for an extra internet connection an extra few 1000 B a month, might save a few 1000 Euro in lost business and lost customers due to low quality calls. Plus it gives great peace of mind to know your calls would be better. I find if I get a day where all my Outbound calls, the people I call complain they cannot hear me and my call/phone line very bad with nose, can shake the confidence, and then everytime I call, I am dreading there might be another bad voip connection.

Another Option from MAXNET TTT is to Upgrade to LEASED LINE:

Now again, I am clueless, to which size of a Leased Line would guarantee best serious Outbound VOIP Call quality.

As this is for business, I will spend money (within budget, I am not an global blue chip with deep pockets!) within reason.

For me on this list option no 1, Leased Line at 128 Kbps at 8,500 a month I would do, if it ensured best voip quality.

My question is...

What is difference between my current Maxnet Idy 2020/512 Kbps (we all know we never get full 2020/512 speed!) versus this Leased Line Speed 128 Kbps --->> 8,500 Baht / Months?

Would changing to Leased Line Speed 128 Kbps make a huge difference? (sorry I am clueless again on how a lease line 128Kpbs would help or improve my voip quality).

For me to go to the next level of Leased Line Speed 256 Kbps --->> 15,000 Baht business would have to be really going well to justify 15,000 Baht a month. However, if this 256 Kbps speed means guaranteed crystal clear outbound voice, with no customers complaining, and the net speed is getting worse in Pattaya it may be worth the investment, as better calls, means more calls done, and faster net means less days down (my work is 100% dependent on net, so slow slow net = lost business)

Any feedback on what the 256Kbps leased line could do for me not only with VOIP but on the internet speed in general?(would it mean I would suffer less of this dragging slow internet we get down here on a consistent basis?)

MAXNET LEASED LINE INFO (about 4 weeks old this info)

The internet Leased line service from TT&T For price

Speed 128 Kbps --->> 8,500 Baht / Months Installaion 8000 Baht / first time and Free Rental Router

Speed 256 Kbps --->> 15,000 Baht / Months Installaion 8000 Baht/ first time and Free Rental Router

Speed 512 Kbps --->> 24,000 Baht / Months Installaion 8000 Baht/ first time and Free Rental Router

Speed 1024 Kbps --->> 35,000 Baht / Months Installaion 8000 Baht/ first time and Free Rental Router

Speed 2048 Kbps --->> 62,000 Baht / Months Installaion 8000 Baht/ first time and Free Rental Router

OFFER

- Provide + 8 FiX IP Address for service

- Provide Router

- Web hostion Silver plan

- MRTG Network Monitoring 24 Hrs and help for link down not over 3 hrs internet can up

- Link Back up for service

- Guarantree for Speed and Guarantree for Service

My Router/Modem which my current PC and Notebook (i do not use notebook for voip calls in office) connect to net on, and I bought it about 1 year ago is a NETGEAR 108mpbs Super Wireless ADSL Modem Router. My PC which I use for voip x-lite softphone (free version, Irish blueface.ie voip company tell me free version is just as good as paid upgraded version, and from blueface.ie site the x-lite softphone is configure for max voip quality).

Again, as I am not technical, do you mean, I could go into the online or on internet browser NETGEAR Router page and configure it on there for better VOIP quality?

Here is my results on this link from testyourvoip.com

I used London and the call quality setting(the 1st one under destination)

Test No 1

http://www.TestYourVoIP.com/details.html?id=I4K4MS

MOS is 4.3 when I tested which is Not Good!

Test No 2 done 30 minutes approx after Test No 1.

http://www.TestYourVoIP.com/results.html?id=MMQM4C

3.6/5.0 on MOS outbound to London.

I looked at X-Lite Soft Phone and The follow Codecs on there. (its "off the shelf" configured for voip from blueface)

Enabled:

Broadvoice-32

Broadvoice-32FEC

G711 aLAW

G711 uLAW

iLBC

Speex FEC

Speex Wideband

Speex Wideband FEC

DISABLED

Speex

AUDIO QOS

Use of Service = GUARANTEED

Box checked YES to Reserve Bandwidth when Available.

There is 2 video codecs, but I do not use Video on voip calls, and do not intend to either. ( a nice to have for calling friends, but no need for business, and might reduce outbound voice call quality).

VOXBONE has Resellers for Small Business, Teleworker, who are too small in size for the large company VOXBONE service.

Voxbone.com for the small business or Teleworker actually have Resellers, and Voxbone.com themselves recommended the following resellers for me to try, who all use the VOXBONE dedicated voip only service.

Here is the names below

voipvoip.com

jetnumbers.com

ipness.com

If they are using and resellers for the dedicated VOXBONE VOIP network configure and only for voip use, then does that mean they would provide a higher level of voip outbound voice call quality?

So Thanks DSYS for your help, and there above is the information to the question you asked me. This would be very good information to get a clear answer on, as I am sure there are other on here getting bad work days due to slow internet making bad voip quality.

Looking forward to your input on this new information.

Kindest Regards

Gerry

[dsys]

How do i find that out/ Apologies, I do not know what this means...

I checked out the maxnet page the package you are on is not going to be very good for VOIP it states on the site <a href="http://www.maxnet.co.th/product_Indy.php" target="_blank">http://www.maxnet.co.th/product_Indy.php</a> that the bandwidth is reduced for international VOIP.

I cant read thai very well and cant find the link fo rhte english translation.

I would suggest you give maxnet a call and upgrade to the business pacjage not the premier. The contention ratio is the number of people fighting for the same resources at the same time. Usually the home packages have 50:1 ratio. This means that a max of 50 people use the one resource (time sharing) hence when the previous poster upgraded he probably moved to a 25:1 ratio - hence speed increase. The business pacjkage probably has a contention ratio of 20:1 (or better).

Getting another maxnet line in will make no differece cause the data will probably be going to the same place anyways. A better option if you want to go down this road would be to get another provider line in but make sure its going to a different DSLAM. Either way I would suggest this is your last option.

Another Option from MAXNET TTT is to Upgrade to LEASED LINE:

My question is...

What is difference between my current Maxnet Idy 2020/512 Kbps (we all know we never get full 2020/512 speed!) versus this Leased Line Speed 128 Kbps --->> 8,500 Baht / Months?

OK note that the leased line has only one speed rating - 128kb etc. Thats because the line is symetric. It has the same upload and down load speed. Now in Europe a leased line is usually what we call a 2meg(E1) it is 2Mbs both ways. I guess from looking at the proce list they are offering you a SDSL(symetric) line rather than ADSL(asymetric). Leased lines usually have a contention ration of 1:1 so you are virtually certain you get the speed you pay for. If I were to go for the "leased line" option I would use it only for the VOIP calls. I would choose a speed around two times what i needed. For one call at a time on G711(mu law) you need 80kbs-100kbs(including headers etc) so 2 times that would be 200kbs, id go for the 256kbs line. I always over engineer important links so you could get away with 128kbs. You need to make sure that this leased line and ROUTER can support VOIP.

Again, as I am not technical, do you mean, I could go into the online or on internet browser NETGEAR Router page and configure it on there for better VOIP quality?

It may be possible to tag your voip packets to get a "higher level of service" from the data network. Looking at the config for the softphone it is doing this already so little benefit in doing this,

Now here is the bad news - looking at your test results you should be getting a good quality of sound MOS>3 is good in Thailand. You have a percievable lag and some jitter on the line. Looking at the trace route the call goes through hong kong. Looking at the media delay you can see that this is where your problem lies - look from you to london, there is a large lag.

Without being on your site to check things furhter I would guess that you are "over talking" yourself because of the delay.

Going back to the trace route you can see the delay is caused by a flagtel router (no surprise there then : <a href="http://www.dslreports.com/routerwatch/so-0-1-3.0.cjr02.hkg003.flagtel.com" target="_blank">http://www.dslreports.com/routerwatch/so-0...003.flagtel.com</a>) alx-hkg I guess hong kong to Londond as the next step is to telehouse in docklands.

The trace route also shows that the delay getting out of maxnet is not that bad.

VOXBONE has Resellers for Small Business, Teleworker, who are too small in size for the large company VOXBONE service.

I used to run a voip in london company based on one of these models. The resellers buy space on the SIP proxy but do not necessarily buy the "routes" from the host company - buying from a reseller is not going to mean you get the best quality, they are free to buy and sell links as they see fit.

Specific answers in quote

So that answers the questions you asked(I hiope) but what should you do? Well I f it were me in the same situation here's what I would do.

1.Bin the indy package and buy the business package. Making sure that the contention ratio is reduced and that VOIP is supported.

This may improve things a little.

2.Bin the softphone and buy a good quality hardware IP phone. If your VOIP supplier does not support hardware phones move to one that does. vonage are good.

This also will improve things. Depending onthe phone could be as much as 40%. (80% of your degredation comes from the codec.)

3.Hope and pray that some decent company opens a media gateway in Thailand. (sorry not much hope there)

Remember that the main problem here is the international routers in this case it appears to be HKK-ALX. The only way to solve your problem for sure is to bypass this link. How to do this as a consumer - You need to get hold of the map of international data links out of Thailand. I saw it posted here once.

hope that helps

Edited October 16, 2007 by dsys

[Gerry290]

So that answers the questions you asked(I hiope) but what should you do? Well I f it were me in the same situation here's what I would do.

1.Bin the indy package and buy the business package. Making sure that the contention ratio is reduced and that VOIP is supported.

This may improve things a little.

2.Bin the softphone and buy a good quality hardware IP phone. If your VOIP supplier does not support hardware phones move to one that does. vonage are good.

This also will improve things. Depending onthe phone could be as much as 40%. (80% of your degredation comes from the codec.)

3.Hope and pray that some decent company opens a media gateway in Thailand. (sorry not much hope there)

Remember that the main problem here is the international routers in this case it appears to be HKK-ALX. The only way to solve your problem for sure is to bypass this link. How to do this as a consumer - You need to get hold of the map of international data links out of Thailand. I saw it posted here once.

hope that helps

Hello Dsys:

Thank you again for explain all the points I raised, and I certainly am very grateful for your experience and time to answer my questions. I have been seeking an answer on this for a long time, and finally have a bit of a break through.

Yes, I am going to upgrade to the business package within 24 hours, I will call and email today to get some basic info.

Here is a final question, since it is me working solo, and aside from VOIP, I use email and online asp database. (for example I am not downloading movies or MP3 when I am working and in fact do not allow my assistant to do such things, an office is for work, not play)....

So question is on business package speed wise, as you have professional and Director level experience running a VOIP company, what spend on Biz Package do you recommend?

The 27,500 top level is a little over budget right now. (however since the land line calls as free or cheap... it might have to be done)

But below the top 2048/512 level, since it is only me on phone and assistant is usually just on web mail on net, and no heavy duty downloading of files at all. biggest attachment is a word doc. What would be recommended as best for me on this?

Biz Package Maxnet

256/256 5,900B

512/512 9,500

1024/512 15,900

2048/512 27,500

Here is the link, as after 30 minutes searching cannot find English link either however link gives basic idea. (while I email them for an English version on this...

Biz Internet Package Maxnet Re VOIP Quality

Re Hardware IP phone, again very valuable advice from Dsys, I never knew NOT using a hardware phone, would cause such a large loss of quality.

Yes my VOIP supplier Blueface.ie VOIP Ireland does support hardware phones. In fact blueface.ie is an excellent company and explained the problem was the international gateways over which they had no control. they have excellent customer service.

In fact I have, a Linksys 2.4 Ghz broadband Router Wireless-G that I bought over 2 years ago from Blueface which they specifically configure for optimal VOIP use. I used to use it in Thailand, but was up in ISAN , where net was bad anyway, as on moving to Pattaya, I went soft phone direction.

So would this Linksys, which I used to plug a regular phone into be a similar piece of hardware as a good quality IP Phone. (or should I forget the Linksys, and buy a new quality IP Phone??)

Does anyone know of a few good brands of IP phone, and any shops of good reputation in Pattaya where I can buy one Please?

Again, Thanks for all the help Dsys. You information should be made a sticky. It is invaluable, and I have been searching for 8 or 9 months for someone who really knew to explain to me in layman terms.

I will post up any info I get on business package from Maxnet.

Thanks

G

[gregb]

Can you change your CODEC (G711 preferred) on your softphone?

I would strongly advise against this in Thailand. While it can be preferred in the West, or in fact any country with relatively good bandwidth, the 100+k needed for G.711 in fact gives poorer overall quality in Thailand.

Stick with G.723.1 or G.729 in Thailand and you will be much better off. The reduction in bandwidth from 100k down to 20k can really make a difference on slower (128/256k DSL links)

There is practically no difference in voice quality anyway. While G.711 technically has a MOS of 5.0, that is only true over TDM circuits. G.723.1 and G.729 both consistently achieve MOS of 4.3 or better over VoIP links, almost indistinguishable from G.711.

In short, in Thailand where bandwidth is scarce and limited, the low bandwidth codecs are preferred. My experience. As always, YMMV.

[gregb]

Test No 1

http://www.TestYourVoIP.com/details.html?id=I4K4MS

MOS is 4.3 when I tested which is Not Good!

I would encourage you to reconsider this statement. Why?

Almost all (and by that I mean > 90%) international voice traffic these days goes over compression technology. Even if you dial TDM from London to Thailand and pay the highest premium rate you can from the best business service you can get, the call will be compressed and sent over at best an 8k link.

There is no such thing as a full 64k DS0 circuit being used anymore to carry international voice traffic. Just doesn't happen. There is a reason for this...because the voice degredation of the compressed circuit is almost indistinguishable to most human ears.

And do you want to know the MOS of that 8k link? About 4.3. I challenge you to tell the difference between a MOS of 4.3 and 5.0. My bet is you can't. Most people can't. A MOS of 4.3 is excellent quality. It is exactly the same quality you get dialing international IDD.

Don't get too hung up on numbers. What that VoIP link is actually telling you is that you should be using a compressed codec such as G.723.1 or G.729 (MOS 4.3) rather than simple A-Law or Mu-Law companding (MOS 5.0). In fact, the site doesn't calculate your MOS, but simply looks at your available bandwidth and says "this link has enough bandwidth to support G.729". But the reality is *EVERYONE* uses compression these days when calling internationally, people just don't realize this. So that MOS of 5.0 is really an anachronism. MOS 4.3 is very good, business class service, identical to IDD.

If I were you, I would get the 128k lease line service from TT&T, and configure your VoIP service for G.729ab with 20 msec packets. That will give you the highest quality you can get at the lowest cost. Anything more than this is like purchasing a Ferrari to sit in Bangkok traffic. Sure you might think you look great, but the reality is the guy in the Toyota next to you will be going the same speed and getting to the same place and doing it for a whole lot less.

P.S:

You guys want to see something really funny? Check out the Wikipedia page on Mean Opinion Score. They list G.711 as only 4.3. Just goes to show you that MOS don't mean the same thing to everyone.

If you want more information on what MOS actually is and the preferred (but not only) statistical method used to calculate it, check out ITU publication P.800. You have to be in a very quiet room to make this calculation meaningful. Doesn't happen in the real world.

[dsys]

Can you change your CODEC (G711 preferred) on your softphone?

I would strongly advise against this in Thailand. While it can be preferred in the West, or in fact any country with relatively good bandwidth, the 100+k needed for G.711 in fact gives poorer overall quality in Thailand.

Stick with G.723.1 or G.729 in Thailand and you will be much better off. The reduction in bandwidth from 100k down to 20k can really make a difference on slower (128/256k DSL links)

There is practically no difference in voice quality anyway. While G.711 technically has a MOS of 5.0, that is only true over TDM circuits. G.723.1 and G.729 both consistently achieve MOS of 4.3 or better over VoIP links, almost indistinguishable from G.711.

In short, in Thailand where bandwidth is scarce and limited, the low bandwidth codecs are preferred. My experience. As always, YMMV.

While this is prudent advice in the main, the OP's problem is a one way lag which on the information provided appears to be due to a bad router between HK and (what i now think) is australia. The only changes that the OP can make to cause any effect is to reduce the computational cycles (80% degreg) in the CODEX and increasing his available bandwidth. The OP is already getting good sound quality but needs to try to reduce his lag.

I know I am going to get shot down for this but I'll say it anyway.

Bandwidth in thailand is not as restricted as it appears to be. If you get the correct package for your needs the bandwidth is there for the taking. Eg. IPstar 2mb homme package - actual speeds experienced 10-25kbs . IPstar 1mb business package - actual experienced 500-800kbs. The problem is that the Thai operators use high contention ratios their baic packages which cause the apparent bandwidth problems. Its the old adage x 10 - you get what youpay for.

The other problem is again with contention but at the international routers out of Thailand. If you choose a provide that splits their links on Gray fibres and high ratios you will see problems. eg last monts outages when a fibre was cut.

[gregb]

While this is prudent advice in the main, the OP's problem is a one way lag which on the information provided appears to be due to a bad router between HK and (what i now think) is australia. The only changes that the OP can make to cause any effect is to reduce the computational cycles (80% degreg) in the CODEX and increasing his available bandwidth. The OP is already getting good sound quality but needs to try to reduce his lag.

Since I don't have the traceroute it is hard to offer any meaningful advice here. However, if the problem truly is in the peering point in Hong Kong, nothing the OP is going to be able to do locally will fix the problem.

There are some things that the ISP could do, such as static routing out a different link and poisoning a BGP request for the incoming link (which can only be done on a complete class C usually). However, these are things which the OP has to negotiate directly with the ISP before signing the contract.

Again, my recommendation is to sign up for the business class service with the ISP, and take the 128k link. Use G.729 for your VoIP connections. Discuss your requirements with TT&T, and don't buy their explanation that they can't control the external internet.

Get a diagram of their external links, and ask the sales rep if they will be willing to static route certain IPs for you in the event of problems on specific peering paths. Do all this before you sign the contract, so that they have some incentive to help you.

On the inbound side, they can only use BGP poisoning, and that only works on a full class C (256 IPs). They may be less thrilled about doing that because it affects others on your class C, but again, don't buy their argument that it isn't possible. It is possible. The question is, are they willing to do it for you?

If you can't get this kind of service commitment from your ISP, then I would stick with a Thai VoIP provider, as there are rarely any service problems in the domestic network if you have a lease line.

[dsys]

Hello Dsys:

So question is on business package speed wise, what spend on Biz Package do you recommend?

So would this Linksys, which I used to plug a regular phone into be a similar piece of hardware as a good quality IP Phone. (or should I forget the Linksys, and buy a new quality IP Phone??)

G

Gerry,

I didn't look at the prices for the business package - that is a huge increase. You need to post some more info on the exact differences to justify that price increase.

The actions I am suggesting will not get rid of your problem but they will make it better - bear that in mind.

If you have the linksys router with you plug it in and try it, you may find it gives you better quality. The router you have is what they call an ATA - analogue telephone adapter. It is the mid range solution for consumers and should work well. The next step up would be an IP phone which comes with an RJ45 you plug straight into your router. I have only used two phones - both corporate class one Nortel and one Cisco. They cost areound £150 for a good one. The reason that hardware is better than software is two fold - 1. The headset is designed to be used as a phone and 2. the hardware solution is faster at doing the digitisation of voice.

I currently have VOIP working on an IPstar setup. There is a huge lag and I wouldnt use it for business. The difference between using a softphone and an IPphone is the difference between making a call or not.

can you post more info on the business package, for those prices you may be better off with the leased line

edit: just read the previous post - good advice about static routing, i think they wouldonly do this on a leased line though and it would be expensive.

Edited October 16, 2007 by dsys

[Gerry290]

I emailed them Maxnet for price list and also emailed some of the info here to blueface.ie my voip company, seeing what they can say or work on from it, to improve call quality for me!

Also will ask them about the leased line the 256kpbs might be the option re costs and it is only me on the VOIP phone, assistant does not make calls i do all the client work on the phone, only me.

[dsys]

I emailed them Maxnet for price list and also emailed some of the info here to blueface.ie my voip company, seeing what they can say or work on from it, to improve call quality for me!

Also will ask them about the leased line the 256kpbs might be the option re costs and it is only me on the VOIP phone, assistant does not make calls i do all the client work on the phone, only me.

On another post there is a map of the international links out of thailand http://internet.nectec.or.th

Pass that on to your VOIP provider.