Bee-keeping

[Martin]

I fancy having a go at keeping a hive or two, but how should I go about getting the bees and the equipment?

I would welcome any suggestions, please.

[plachon]

I fancy having a go at keeping a hive or two, but how should I go about getting the bees and the equipment?

I would welcome any suggestions, please.

Martin, try driving out on Chumpae road from KK town centre past the Uni entrance and the airport on your right, and I think somewhere before the turning to Mancha Kiri there is a bee keeping extension/promotion centre on your right, which should have all the information you need. I've never been in there myself, but colleagues used to take farmers there for training courses and they said it was the proverbial "bees knees".

A friend who used to keep bees over in Mahasarakham reported that keeping bees is not that difficult under Isaan conditions, but it's not that economic either. You either have to buy in sugar to feed the bees at certain times of year or put the hives in your truck and take 'em off round the provinces to places where there's lots of food, like lamyai blossom in Mukdahan or kapok in Nong Khai, etc.

Let us know what you find at that centre.

[Martin]

Wow! Thanks a million,'plachon'. I will seek out that centre today.

When I looked on the Internet, I found that honey yields here are much less than in Europe. But there's only me and the missus so we should still get sufficient.

Also I remember that in a year of bad weather for the bees in England, some beekeepers got floorsweepings from a sugar factory and made adequate syrup. I have three factories in my area, so scrounging looks possible!

[Martin]

Thank you, 'plachon' for excellent advice.

That Beekeeping Centre (which seems also to host the Northeastern Beekeepers Association) did me proud.

The technician and the two ladies in the office worked hard with their limited English and my lack of Thai to answer my questions.

We had got as far as them telling me that there was a honey farm that also sold equipment and bees and I was trying to get directions to it, when the boss came. They explained my presence and he promptly told the technician to go with me as a guide.

The honey farm was about 6km from the centre of KK in the NW sector of the city. Its owner was away in Loei province, but a very competent young lady let us watch her rehousing stock after stock, and took my order, which I will collect on Thursday when I have prepared to right spot at home.

I was surprised how docile the bees were compared to the ones that I had on my Welsh hill farm. Maybe the climate, which was bleak, often cold, and usually wet, made my Welsh ones grumpy, whereas the KK climate induces 'mae pen lai' and 'bo peng yang' even in bees.

The prices seemed very reasonable. 1800 baht for a wooden box hive containing a good stock of bees on six frames. 450 baht for a bellows smoker. 200 baht for a stainless-steel hive tool. 50 baht for a hive stand made from re-bar, which is greased to keep the ants off. 90 baht for a head net, but none in stock, so I will make my own, though my companion and the young lady indicated that they never wear one, nor gloves.

The bees we saw were being fed sugar block.

The boxes need repainting every year, so in due course I will need three more boxes at 380 bahts each to swop the bees into.

So for about a hundred pounds, or US$200, one can get set up with three hives.

I'll post again after Thursday.

[plachon]

Glad you found it doublequick Martin, that they were helpful and are now ready to go.

Yes, the Isaan bees are noted for their docility and bor ben nyang attitude to life, which makes for easy keeping but as I heard from my friend, they maybe don't range far enough at times to fill up the hive with honey. Also, beware your neighbours spaying with pesticide, as that can decimate your stock.

If any of your neighbours do get interested and you can form them into a small group, then you might like to consider subsidising them (50/50?) to go on a course at the NE Centre in KK and then you'd soon have a little collective of honey producers going. The course fees used to be very cheap. The advantage could be information swapping and a bit more marketing power if you wanted to sell, a year or two down the line. Most will drop out, of course, but it's always good to have some neighbours who know what you're doing and can look after your hives if you're ever away or can split the costs on taking the hives to a more pollen rich area, should the need arise.

Just an idea to promote self-sufficiency and sustainability in the future oil-free economy!

[MrSquigle]

How much honey do you expect to get from the 3 hives ?

[Pond Life]

Please keep us updated at the Farming Forum with your experiences Martin.

Im very interested in this but, I've got alot of other projects on the go, so it might be a couple of years before I get time to try it myself.

I've got some drawing for building your own hives, I'll try to post them in the farm Forum bee thread.

[Martin]

Thank you to all above for their encouragement.

For anybody who drives down to Bangkok, you might like to take a little detour via the Lungsaard Bee Farm near Lopburi.

They sell all sorts of bee products.

There is a map of how to get there on http://www.lungsaardbeefarm.com/

For a box, 7 frames with bees and a queen, plus a spare frame they charge 2500 bahts.

[Martin]

For 'Mr Squigle', re post #6:

My object in keeping bees is not to maximise output of honey.

As an amateur, my interest is in the bees: what nectar and pollen they are finding, how far they are travelling to find it etc. So a bit of honey for us and to give away down the soi is only a 'fringe benefit'.

For some years, I have observed that beekeeping is a fascinating, absorbing hobby for some retired people (and some who are not yet retired). So now that I have retired, and have more time for hobbies, I am thinking of maybe taking it up in a small way.

I think I saw on the Internet that the professionals get 12-18 kg of honey per year per hive in Europe, but only about half of that in Thailand. Of course, that is subject to a lot of variables: the weather during the year, whether the bees are helped with the feeding of sugar or consume their stored honey in 'famine' times etc.

Beekeeping is only profitable if the beekeeper works very hard at it, has a lot of hives, and gets good luck.

I think that amateur beekeepers see it as a pleasurable hobby that isn't overly expensive to start, or to maintain.

Some see some aspects (such as keeping rare breeds of bees that are not profitable commercially) as their 'service to mankind'.

Bees are important. If all breeds of bee became extinct except for one profitable breed, and then it was wiped out by a new disease, mankind itself would be wiped out within four years by worldwide famine.

[Martin]

Update:

Tuesday started badly. “She Who Must Be Obeyed” wanted nowt to do with us having bees. So I capitulated and said that we could go on Thusday and ask for my deposit of 500 baht to be returned in the form of that much honey. But their English and my Thai wouldn’t stand the strain, so she would have to explain.

Later, I had an idea, and suggested that we still buy one hive of bees, but give it to ‘Wat Pha’. That is a little one-monk forest temple that we help to support and where we go nearly every week on ‘Buddha Day’ for the morning breakfast ‘service’. That was felt to be a possibility, as the monk had previously seen a lot of bees dying nearby and had ‘preached’ on being careful to buy less-harmful sprays and to spray in the evening when the bees had gone home.

So, on Wednesday, we went to Wat Pha to ask the monk and he was agreeable.

On Thursday, the owner of the beefarm in Khon Kaen was out, but his daughter chatted with Thong till he came back. I kept out of it, but she seemed to allay some of Thong’s misgivings. Then the owner allayed the rest, and sold us all we needed along with two hives (as, he reckoned, a colony on its own is lonely). Thong still took the 500 bahts in honey, of course. Little extras that come out of my pocket, rather than her housekeeping money, are never spurned! While we were there, we got a phone call to say that the eldest lad (who is a newsreader/DJ in Udon) had been taken to hospital with a high fever and tonsillitis. As there wasn’t time to go to see him and to Wat Pha, the bees had to come home and be housed in our garden for a couple of days.

This morning (Friday), I opened the covers over the hive entries at dawn and the first bees ventured out. Being a person who is so fascinated by work that he can sit for hours and watch others doing it, I did just that. Gradually, those first guard bees flew a bit further away (once they were sure they knew the way back). But it wasn’t till mid-afternoon that I saw the first forage seekers going off and coming back. In the meantime, I had a go at feeding sugar. I didn’t know it, but a villager had brought a contribution of about 40 kg of raw sugar to Thong’s big party when the lads were ‘monked’. Only about half had been used and Thong had squirreled away the rest.

(Apparently, when those ‘siplors’ and trailers are hauling raw sugar down to Bangkok, a bit can ‘fall off the back of a wagon’ whilst it is parked up in a village before starting its journey!!)

I had forgotten to ask yesterday about how to feed sugar, but five minutes on the Internet sufficed. ‘Googling’ bees+feeding+sugar led to “John’s Beekeeping Notebook” at http://outdoorplace.org/beekeeping/feeding.htm.

I used his ‘plastic bag feeder’ method with a syrup of two mugs of raw sugar to one mug of water. It turned out like slightly-watered-down molasses and the bees cleared the lot quite fast.

So far, so good. I’ll update again in a week or so.

[lungbing]

Fascinating! You may have started a whole new trend for us farangs up here in the sticks.

Please do keep us posted and you might encourage others to give it a go.

[Joe Walshe]

I also find this subject interesting. I started to read the Post becauise I like honey and thought a few hives might be good. But the notion of encouraging different breeds of bees sounds interesting.

Hope you'll keep us all updated with news from time to time. A photo or two would be nice.

Joe

[Martin]

I am going to have a look in the hives and put sugar syrup in the feeders this afternoon, so will try to get some photos.

In the meantime there is this one that I have pinched from a book. The book is a kiddies Learning English book: "What is a bee?". The beefarmer in Khon Kaen had a copy and was using it to explain things to me, as the information in it is in both Thai and English. But when I went to the bookshop in Khon Kaen they had sold all their copies and weren't getting any more.

So I took the details and e-mailed them to Danny Speight at http://www.dcothai.com/.

I have never met Danny, but over the years I have bought quite a few books from his website and he has also got me books that weren't in his listings. I just pay at my bank into his account and then he sends the books by EMS. Very handy.

Anyway, he got "What is a bee", even though it is only 55 baht, and is going to stock it from now on.

In the photo, the numbered parts are:

1. An eye, of which the bee has five.

2. An antenna, of which it has two.

3.Its jaws.

4. Its tongue

5. A wing, of which it has two pairs.

6. Its honey stomach, in which it brings nectar from flowers.

7. Its hairy body, that gets the pollen.

8. One of its twopollen sacs,

9. Its stinger.

[Bicko]

I am going to have a look in the hives and put sugar syrup in the feeders this afternoon, so will try to get some photos.

In the meantime there is this one that I have pinched from a book. The book is a kiddies Learning English book: "What is a bee?". The beefarmer in Khon Kaen had a copy and was using it to explain things to me, as the information in it is in both Thai and English. But when I went to the bookshop in Khon Kaen they had sold all their copies and weren't getting any more.

So I took the details and e-mailed them to Danny Speight at http://www.dcothai.com/.

I have never met Danny, but over the years I have bought quite a few books from his website and he has also got me books that weren't in his listings. I just pay at my bank into his account and then he sends the books by EMS. Very handy.

Anyway, he got "What is a bee", even though it is only 55 baht, and is going to stock it from now on.

In the photo, the numbered parts are:

1. An eye, of which the bee has five.

2. An antenna, of which it has two.

3.Its jaws.

4. Its tongue

5. A wing, of which it has two pairs.

6. Its honey stomach, in which it brings nectar from flowers.

7. Its hairy body, that gets the pollen.

8. One of its twopollen sacs,

9. Its stinger.

Very interesting. Thanks. So in fact a bee can collect pollen and nectar. What an efficient little beastie they are.

[Martin]

Here are the first of this afternoon's photos.

It is necessary to stop ants from getting in and robbing the hive, and at the appropriate times of the year, the Thai beekeepers tie oily rags round the legs of their hive stands.

Not knowing when that is, I decided to have a permanent defence and wrapped a bandage round each leg and put a funnel-cup (made from the top of a water bottle) on each bandage. So I can fill the funnel-cup with waste oil using an oil can, and the bandage is kept wet with oil.

But the bandages leak, so I put a catching cup (made from the other end of the water bottle) to catch the leaked oil and form a second oil barrier to the ants.

The hive stands are rather flimsy three-legged affairs ( but you can't expect much for 70 baht!).

One day, I mean to get around to having some substantial four-legged stands made from re-bar, and I will design those so that each leg can stand in a big tin of waste oil.

In the second photo, the simple clip that is used to hold down the hive cover is undone and hanging down. Also there is one bee just going in and another, who has just arrived back, doing her 'waggle dance' to tell where she has been and what she has found.

[Martin]

At present, the hive is just what is called a 'brood box', containing frames on which the the colony is rearing young and building up its numbers.

Later in the year the brood box will be full of frames and I will put a queen excluder and 'super' on.

The queen excluder is just a sheet of perforated metal, with holes big enough to let the worker bees go up into the super and store honey, but small enough to keep the queen from going up and laying eggs.

(When you go for the buffet breakfast in a posh Bangkok hotel like the Peninsula, or the Sheraton at Asoke on Sukhumvit, and they have a frame hung up and the honey dripping into a trough below, that is a frame that has been in a super and bees have stored next winters food on it. Basically, beekeepers steal the bees' food store and give them sugar in return.)

The first photo shows the brood box with the lid off. The nearest to the camera is the sugar feeder. It is just a deep, narrow box, in which it is just possible to see the glint of the surface of the sugar syrup. If I had realised, I would have taken the photo slightly more vertically to show more of the surface of the pool of sugar syrup and the leaves that I put on top so the bees have a platform to walk on and avoid drowning.

The next photo shows the sugar box removed. The frame that is nearest was put in a few days ago. Then it held just a sheet of wax with the outline of the base of the cells on it. The bees are building up the walls of the cells on that sheet of 'foundation'. When they have finished in a few days I will move that frame up to become the frame next to the top and the queen will start laying eggs in it.

The third photo shows the the box with that first frame removed, too. These bees are feeding pupae in the cells or cleaning up the cells after the pupae have hatched into young bees and come out. When that is finished next week I will move that frame up to next to the top, ready for the queen to lay eggs in it.

In a few weeks the brood box, which had six frames and the colony in it when I bought it, will have nine frames of brood in it, and that's when the queen excluder and super will go on.

[egg6447]

Here are the first of this afte

It is necessary to stop ants from getting in and robbing the hive, and at the appropriate times of the year, the Thai beekeepers tie oily rags round the legs of their hive stands.

Not knowing when that is, I decided to have a permanent defence and wrapped a bandage round each leg and put a funnel-cup (made from the top of a water bottle) on each bandage. So I can fill the funnel-cup with waste oil using an oil can, and the bandage is kept wet with oil.

But the bandages leak, so I put a catching cup (made from the other end of the water bottle) to catch the leaked oil and form a second oil barrier to the ants.

The hive stands are rather flimsy three-legged affairs ( but you can't expect much for 70 baht!).

One day, I mean to get around to having some substantial four-legged stands made from re-bar, and I will design those so that each leg can stand in a big tin of waste oil.

In the second photo, the simple clip that is used to hold down the hive cover is undone and hanging down. Also there is one bee just going in and another, who has just arrived back, doing her 'waggle dance' to tell where she has been and what she has found.

[egg6447]

hi you beekeepers, a subject close to my heart,a couple of points that have been overlooked. water, for the bee,s to drink, i have always found that they prefer what we would concider dirty water, ie leaves and general farm deposits in it, my opinion only is that there must be neutrients in it that they prefer, also they can stand on the debry to drink. they also use water to cool the hive, you should notice them standing on the alighting bourd, fanning. place the water source a short walk from the hive, shady position, while they,re flying there not working. the fanning cools the hive and evaperates the water from the necture, thickens it to honey, along with stomach additives as mentioned by martin i think. another piont is dont leave space in the hive they will biuld wild comb and make a mess when you open it, spilt honey starts a frenzy, you are likely to be attacked, also starts robbing. martin has worked it out already stand the hive stand legs it tins of oil. now ive never kept bees in los so things are different here for me, i dont keep bees here by the way. to mr squiggle my opinion is three hives at a site is the least for manipulation/control. we call this hobby bee keeping but its realy bee manipulation. all information and oppinion on bee keeping is just that, if it works for you then it works. before you keep or buy bees make sure you are not allergic to bee stings, unless you suffer with breathing problems after a sting, ignor it, easier said than done maybe, 72hrs of swelling followed by 72hrs of itching, this is normal, after the first 1000 stings you get immune,,lol. ive been stung by the very big hornet here and the pattern is /was the same, for me no medical treatment nessesary, i would say the pain is much more severe than a bee though.. enjoy regards egg

[khunandy]

Thanks to Martin for opening this thread, Bees are something I had never considered but what a great little hobby and cheap enough to set up. I will be calling in to the facility when next in Khon Kaen.

With my plans to plant a lot of fruit trees this year bees will be a good thing.

Khun Andy

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

Martin

I never knew bees were so fascinating. You are doing a great job of keeping us all informed.

Thanks

[bartender100]

End of the Bee, scary really

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/34372/...ng-world-crisis

THE summer sound of buzzing bees is set to become rarer due to mystery plagues hitting hives around the world.

The crisis threatens a disaster worse than global warming because bees are so vital to the food chain, experts warned yesterday.

Environment Minister Lord Rooker has already warned that, at present rates, honeybees could be extinct in Britain within a decade.

[kimberim]

hi you beekeepers, a subject close to my heart,a couple of points that have been overlooked. water, for the bee,s to drink, i have always found that they prefer what we would concider dirty water, ie leaves and general farm deposits in it, my opinion only is that there must be neutrients in it that they prefer, also they can stand on the debry to drink. they also use water to cool the hive, you should notice them standing on the alighting bourd, fanning. place the water source a short walk from the hive, shady position, while they,re flying there not working. the fanning cools the hive and evaperates the water from the necture, thickens it to honey, along with stomach additives as mentioned by martin i think. another piont is dont leave space in the hive they will biuld wild comb and make a mess when you open it, spilt honey starts a frenzy, you are likely to be attacked, also starts robbing. martin has worked it out already stand the hive stand legs it tins of oil. now ive never kept bees in los so things are different here for me, i dont keep bees here by the way. to mr squiggle my opinion is three hives at a site is the least for manipulation/control. we call this hobby bee keeping but its realy bee manipulation. all information and oppinion on bee keeping is just that, if it works for you then it works. before you keep or buy bees make sure you are not allergic to bee stings, unless you suffer with breathing problems after a sting, ignor it, easier said than done maybe, 72hrs of swelling followed by 72hrs of itching, this is normal, after the first 1000 stings you get immune,,lol. ive been stung by the very big hornet here and the pattern is /was the same, for me no medical treatment nessesary, i would say the pain is much more severe than a bee though.. enjoy regards egg

Another serious thing you will have to watch out for is the dreaded Varroa mite. You must check for them every week as if you dont they will overwhelm your bees and the bees will then get a virus called deformed wing virus. You can treat with apistan or bavoran but the mites will become immune to it and will make the problem even worse. Open mesh floors are a great help as the sort out the natural mite drop and using Oxalix acid is ok as the mites cannot become immune to the acid but be careful how you use it as its a poison. If handled and used carefully though its a great asset

[alaninkarachi]

Hi, I'm new to this forum. Found it this morning... Lokos really good.

Bee keeping is just what I need. I used to keep 4 hives in UK. Now we've got a small house and a few rai with a pond located about 12 kilometers west of KK. I'll be up next week and visiting the Bee center for sure to get myself set up with a couple of hives. Please all of you keep this forum open and updated.

[blackcountryboing]

I have been thinking about this as I have seen some hives not to far from my house.

Great information.

Cheers

[cowellandrew]

hello to eveyone

i live just outside Kanchanburi,we have often harvested the wild honey from some of bees that live around me, some of the honey-combes are huge,i have even tried to keep the wild bees around, but the leave and then return the following year,

so i want to try my hand at a hive,

has anyone any links to people a bit nearer to me in kanchanburi?

from andrew

[Elzear]

G'day, Bee fans ..

We are 2019, this forum seems to ave stopped ten years ago ! Is that possible ? 

I am a newcomer in Isan, settling down with my new bride in the Bueng Kan province. I am looking at starting bee farming as a "hobby" at first, see how I go. But  find very little infos on bee farmng in Isaan. There was a post, in 2007, about a Bee Farming "institute" near Khon Kaen, but the address was so imprecise that made it impossible for my routers (bride and G-maps) to find. 

Thus my questions: first, is this forum still humming and two, what is the exact address of this "Institut", if it still exists ? 

News from the Isaan Farang Bee farmers would be most welcome. 

Jean-Marie

[Dan747]

Looks like a Great New Hobby for me here at Ubon that I have been thinking about for several years. I am more into Pollination of my 11 Rai area and enjoying some of the Honey. One question I have is what do you think of the new Free Flow Beehive?? 

[IsaanAussie]

I suggest you contact Raitong Organic Farm near Sisaket. They are currently building lots of hives for native stingless bees. Prime purpose I believe is pollination of their farm. 

Look them up on Facebook. One of the owners is a Suff Arf Rick Can.

[Billy Bloggs]

Hi all

I will try to keep adding to this thread when I can, Im stuck in Oz doing my time to make my pension portable(12 months to go).

I want to keep bees mainly for the pollination benefit for our small farm.

Im over for 4 weeks in April so will do some leg work while there.

Will then write about my adventures, if anyone else starts please let us know and keep us informed, we promise not to steal your pollen.

[Dan747]

23 hours ago, Billy Bloggs said:

Hi all

I will try to keep adding to this thread when I can, Im stuck in Oz doing my time to make my pension portable(12 months to go).

I want to keep bees mainly for the pollination benefit for our small farm.

Im over for 4 weeks in April so will do some leg work while there.

Will then write about my adventures, if anyone else starts please let us know and keep us informed, we promise not to steal your pollen.

 I am interested too. Please let me know your findings. Looking at a possible two hive operation with maybe the Free-Flow hives if possible.  ????