£400 For A Month?

[a man with a plan]

I've been living in the UK with my wife for almost 2 years now and we just recently applied for her further leave to remain, provided all relevant documentation, paid the £398, it all seemed to be going ok; got our passports back with a letter saying your application has been granted, you have further leave to remain until the 30th of November 2007... the original visa only expires the end of this month, so it has only been extended one month! Have they made some kind of mistake? But it says 30th Nov 2007 in both the letter and the passport. Can anyone shed some light?

[the scouser]

How soon after your wife's visa was issued did she arrive in the U.K.? If longer than a month, it is feasible that the Border and Immigration Agency have misconstrued her application, thinking that she needs only one month more before applying for indefinite leave. They may have totally missed the point that she doesn't, as yet, have the language/life in the UK qualification, and that she was after another two years.

Scouse.

[a man with a plan]

That's the situation exactly, she is still studying for the Life in the UK test, but doesn't have it as of yet; so we're looking to get further leave for another 2 years. But what do I do? Do I have to appeal or something?

[vinny]

You can point out their error and ask them to reissue her FLR for a further 2 years, in line with paragraph 285 of the Immigration Rules:

Extension of stay as the spouse or civil partner of a person present and settled in the United Kingdom

285. An extension of stay as the spouse or civil partner of a person present and settled in the United Kingdom may be granted for a period of 2 years in the first instance, provided the Secretary of State is satisfied that each of the requirements of paragraph 284 is met.

and their questions and answers:

32. If I need to extend my leave to remain how long will it be extended for?

Your leave will be extended according to the provisions relevant to the category that you are in. Thus, if you came to the UK as a businessman and you continue to meet the criteria for that category, you can apply for and be granted leave to remain any number of times on that basis.

Afterwards, see also:

35. If I am granted further leave to remain and pass the test before that limited leave expires will I be able to apply for settlement straight away?

You will be able to apply for settlement as soon as you pass the test, as long as you satisfy the rest of the criteria and have completed the qualifying period for the application you are making.

Edited October 17, 2007 by vinny

[the scouser]

You need to write to the BIA stating that your wife has been given an incorrect endorsement and that she should have been given a further two years from the date of decision.

Scouse.

[a man with a plan]

QUOTE

Hi there scouse, thanks for all the help. In regards to my case of applying for my wifes FLR and only getting a month I have written the following letter. Should I send the passport along with the letter or wait for a reply first? If you have time can you please scan over my letter and see if you think it does the job.

Dear Mr. Shooter (CLS7),

First of all I would like to thank you for the swiftness with which my visa was processed and granted. Unfortunately I may not have been specific enough in my covering letter and the application may have been misconstrued; the application was intended for my settlement visa to be extended a further two years – at the end of which I will apply for indefinite leave (at present I do not yet have my ‘Life in the UK test certificate’). Upon looking at my visa application it was probably interpreted that I need my visa extended only to bridge the gap between now and the day I am able to apply for indefinite leave, the result being that my visa has only been extended by one month; instead of the full two years as stated in paragraph 285 of the immigration rules (“An extension of stay as the spouse or civil partner of a person present and settled in the United Kingdom may be granted for a period of 2 years in the first instance, provided the Secretary of State is satisfied that each of the requirements of paragraph 284 is met.”)

Please accept my apology for any lack of clarity in my original application. I wish to request my visa be extended for two years from the original expiry date. Thank you for your time.

Yours sincerely,

......................................................

Thanks scouse.

Scouse's reply

I'd certainly send the passport with the letter but, obviously, send it be special delivery. Additionally, I'd send it to the complaints department. Mr. Shooter has probably long forgotten your wife's application and the file would have already been sent to the central repository. The complaints section can dig out the file and then allocate the papers to a caseworker to be addressed.

The letter explains the situation perfectly well.

Best of luck,

Scouse.

[a man with a plan]

They wouldn't reconsider!

I just thought I'd add the above quote to fill in the blanks. Basically I sent the letter as written above, I just got the wife's passport back this morning with a letter saying...

"Thank you for your letter.

You entered the United Kingdom on 30 November 2005 with entry clearance valid from 17 October 2005 to October 17 2007.

You applied for further leave to remain on 25 September 2007 as you did not have knowledge of life in the United Kingdom, however as you had entered late we granted you further leave to remain until 30 Novemeber 2007.

This decision was correct as you will still need to complete 2 years in this category before we can consider further leave to remain.

Under current instructions the application was considered correctly and the correct procedures followed with the correct outcome. We are only able to reconsider if an error has been made. In this case there has been no error, therefore, the decision is maintained."

So basically I had to pay £400 to bridge a gap from October the 17th to November the 30th!! And now, the passport's just come back with 20 days left on the visa, so I have to fork out another £400! It's highway robbery!

There goes our Christmas!

[RAZZELL]

They wouldn't reconsider!

I just thought I'd add the above quote to fill in the blanks. Basically I sent the letter as written above, I just got the wife's passport back this morning with a letter saying...

"Thank you for your letter.

You entered the United Kingdom on 30 November 2005 with entry clearance valid from 17 October 2005 to October 17 2007.

You applied for further leave to remain on 25 September 2007 as you did not have knowledge of life in the United Kingdom, however as you had entered late we granted you further leave to remain until 30 Novemeber 2007.

This decision was correct as you will still need to complete 2 years in this category before we can consider further leave to remain.

Under current instructions the application was considered correctly and the correct procedures followed with the correct outcome. We are only able to reconsider if an error has been made. In this case there has been no error, therefore, the decision is maintained."

So basically I had to pay £400 to bridge a gap from October the 17th to November the 30th!! And now, the passport's just come back with 20 days left on the visa, so I have to fork out another £400! It's highway robbery!

There goes our Christmas!

Get your MP involved. Amazing what can happen. Good luck

RAZZ

[a man with a plan]

How do I go about getting my MP involved?

[vinny]

You entered the United Kingdom on 30 November 2005 with entry clearance valid from 17 October 2005 to October 17 2007.

You applied for further leave to remain on 25 September 2007 as you did not have knowledge of life in the United Kingdom, however as you had entered late we granted youhttp://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?act=post&do=edit_post&f=25&t=148605&p=1643569&st=0

Thailand Forum -> Editing Post £400 For A Month? further leave to remain until 30 Novemeber 2007.

This decision was correct as you will still need to complete 2 years in this category before we can consider further leave to remain.

Under current instructions the application was considered correctly and the correct procedures followed with the correct outcome. We are only able to reconsider if an error has been made. In this case there has been no error, therefore, the decision is maintained."

It is amazing that they are also ignoring their own guidelines as given in questions and answers (32). Moreover, they are not complying with 285 as this is a first instance of an FLR(M) application. She was not applying for ILR, so there was no reason to extend her leave just to cover the initial 2 year period. There is no requirement for people to apply for ILR if they do not wish to do so. See also Chapter 8 - Family members, Section 1 - Spouses (3.6).

Edited November 10, 2007 by vinny

[the scouser]

It is not a requirement of para 284 of the Rules to have spent a qualifying period in the UK, so the BIA's statement is evidently incorrect. I'd certainly go to your MP and see if he'll intervene on your behalf. However, I'd also make sure that your wife does not overstay as this will further complicate the issue. Consequently, also make another application to the BIA, but make it clear that you are still questioning the original decision and that you will be seeking to recover ther cost of the second application.

Scouse.

[a man with a plan]

Cheers guys. It always amazes me how you guys always seem to have the answers.

[Thaicoon]

How do I go about getting my MP involved?

Just find out who your local MP is and ring there office and make an appointment, they will sort this out, i had to use them once and the matter was sorted within a week.

I sent my wifes passport in for an indefinate stay visa, before all these new stupid rules, they sat on this passport for 6 months, we had a flight booked in 2 weeks, they still had the passport, rang my local MP, had the passport back within a week with visa and letter of apologie.

This damm government, all its after is your hard earned Money.

[a man with a plan]

"This damm government, all its after is your hard earned Money."

tell me about it!

Edited November 12, 2007 by a man with a plan

[a man with a plan]

Ugh, here I am having to add yet another bit to this thread...

I sent off a letter to my MP saying...

First of all I would like to thank you for finding the time to read this. I **** *******, am a British national and my wife ***** ********, is a foreign national. We live in ****** and my wife has a settlement visa which we have recently had to renew and have been treated unfairly. We applied for a further leave to remain extension of two years, paid the fee of £398 and received an extension of only forty-three days. I then sent the passport back with a letter explaining that they may have misconstrued the application, thinking that it was only to bridge the gap between the present time and the point at which she will have been here for two years (which is the qualifying period of time to be able to get indefinite leave to remain).

They replied to me saying that as she entered the UK a month after her visa had been granted, she had entered ‘late’, they would not reconsider, she would have to have been here for two years in order to apply for a two year extension and we would have to pay the £398 fee again at that time (there were only 18 valid days left on her visa when we received it, subsequently we have already had to send the passport off with the fee as we don’t want my wife’s visa to expire; of which there is already a risk as it can take up to a month to process).

As according to border and immigration rules someone who has not yet attained an esol level 3 certificate or has not passed the Life in the UK test cannot yet apply for ILR (indefinite leave to remain) and so must instead apply for FLR (further leave to remain); which, as according to paragraph 285 of their law and policies states

“An extension of stay as the spouse or civil partner of a person present and settled in the United Kingdom may be granted for a period of 2 years in the first instance, provided the Secretary of State is satisfied that each of the requirements of paragraph 284 is met”.

The said requirements stated in paragraph 284 do not include the person in question having lived here for two years at the time of FLR extension application – and we do meet all of the requirements outlined in paragraph 284.

I put it to you sir that we were issued the incorrect visa, and then treated unfairly as they simply did not want to admit their mistake, or want to profit from our having to apply for another visa. While we have enough income to support ourselves and live fairly comfortably, having to pay £398 twice before Christmas is certainly less than ideal and all the more frustrating when it is on an unfair basis. It was recommended that I notify you of the situation and I hope very much that you will be able to help me.

In the meanwhile I had sent my wifes passport back with an accompanying saying...

To Whom It May Concern:

Please note that this is the second time in a period of two months in which I have had to apply for further leave to remain as the first time I was only granted 43 days. I have since sent a letter explaining that the application was intended for a further two years, not simply to the second anniversary of my arrival in the UK. The reply stated that the original decision was correct as I have to have been here for a period of two years in order to apply for another two years extension. However I have since investigated the matter and at no point does it say that the applicant must bee here for a full two years before they can apply for a further two years. Note paragraph 285:

“An extension of stay as the spouse or civil partner of a person present and settled in the United Kingdom may be granted for a period of 2 years in the first instance, provided the Secretary of State is satisfied that each of the requirements of paragraph 284 is met”

Please also not that the said requirements stated in paragraph 284 do not include the person in question having lived here for two years at the time of FLR extension application – and we do meet all of the requirements outlined in paragraph 284.

The matter is now being looked into by our local MP, and while having to initially pay the FLR fee again, we will be seeking to recover the fee soon with the aid of our MP.

Yours sincerely,

We got my passport sent back to us but not hers and a letter back saying that they would need more documentation in order to make a decision, they would need 20 peices of evidence, of at least 5 different types that prove we were living together for the duration of 2006. May not sound THAT unusual a request, but the application pack I sent was very thorough, with a lot of evidence of our co-habitation - though not for all of 2006. But the part I find a bit odd is that when I applied the second time I litterally sent the same folder of documents as the first time, with the addition of a more recent bank statement and payslips. So why was it fine last time and this time it isn't? Are they just f*cking me about because I told them I would be looking to recover the fees for the second application?

Edited November 29, 2007 by a man with a plan

[Mahout Angrit]

So why was it fine last time and this time it isn't? Are they just f*cking me about because I told them I would be looking to recover the fees for the second application?

Sorry to say I think you got it in one.

The form FLR(M) doesn't request that spouses and civil partners should provide the 20 pieces of evidence, only evidence of finances, The 20 pieces of evidence would only come into play if you applying are for ILR.

I don't have a solution for you but keep hanging on in there and I wish you good luck with your battle.

[a man with a plan]

Should I mention it to my MP that they are being <deleted> about it this time? I'm not even sure what the status of the visa is; while they have been sitting around 'deciding', the date stamped in her passport has past us by already. I had to send them more evidence that we lived together LAST year, despite the fact that we gave them evidence of co-habitance since January this year.

[Thaicoon]

Should I mention it to my MP that they are being <deleted> about it this time? I'm not even sure what the status of the visa is; while they have been sitting around 'deciding', the date stamped in her passport has past us by already. I had to send them more evidence that we lived together LAST year, despite the fact that we gave them evidence of co-habitance since January this year.

If it was me i would get my MP involved and tell him the trauma and the stress and all the hassle you have had and having with visa issues, he will get onto them, beleive me, he is after your vote in the future, also it will do you some good in the future, as he will be on record on your file at immigration. all the best.

Forget the Monkeys go to the top, things will then be done.

Edited December 2, 2007 by Thaicoon

[the scouser]

Providing that the current application was made before your wife's status expired, she will continue to be in the UK lawfully until the BIA decides her case.

This really is crass stupidity on the BIA's behalf and I would certainly get your MP involved.

Scouse.

[pointofview]

The British Immigration and Nationality Group are in a state of absoulute dissaray. During a recent application to have my wife and sons residents visas transfered from their old Thai passports to their new ones i got <deleted>--ed about for over a year. First they sent back the passports because the machine that printed the visas was broke. They told me to apply after april this year - on doing so they wrote back saying i hadnt enclosed the fee (approx £400). I told them when i first applied there was no fee for this simple transfer - they said it was introduced in december last year - my original application was in november. They told me to appeal. Oh, and on the first return of my application they sent me back the photos of some african guy.

After succesfully appealing my case and after the 3rd time of sending back my passporsts they lost them between departments. I had to personally phone 6 departments to find them. Eventually after i found them and i informed the department that i had won my appeal i thought well thats it sorted - but i was wrong, i then receive a letter asking for the fee!

Edited December 2, 2007 by pointofview

[Thaicoon]

The British Immigration and Nationality Group are in a state of absoulute dissaray. During a recent application to have my wife and sons residents visas transfered from their old Thai passports to their new ones i got <deleted>--ed about for over a year. First they sent back the passports because the machine that printed the visas was broke. They told me to apply after april this year - on doing so they wrote back saying i hadnt enclosed the fee (approx £400). I told them when i first applied there was no fee for this simple transfer - they said it was introduced in december last year - my original application was in november. They told me to appeal. Oh, and on the first return of my application they sent me back the photos of some african guy.

After succesfully appealing my case and after the 3rd time of sending back my passporsts they lost them between departments. I had to personally phone 6 departments to find them. Eventually after i found them and i informed the department that i had won my appeal i thought well thats it sorted - but i was wrong, i then receive a letter asking for the fee!

My wife has two Thai passports, one expired, she was entitled to a British passport after 3 years here in the UK, like an idiot i forgot to apply for British citizenship for her, now she has to do the test, after her been here 11 years, she ain't happy. same with the oldest daughter of 17. when they travel back and forth to Thailand they show the two passports, i was not going to send this new thai passport to immigration, as i knew the conserquences and the hassle to expect.

[a man with a plan]

Latest update in this pain-in-the-ass string of events; my wife got to work this morning to be told she has to be suspended until she can show the company up-to-date documents proving she's allowed to work in the UK. So now she's fuming about lossed earnings on top of all the hassle we've had.

[the scouser]

This is positively Kafkaesque.

Get a letter from your wife's employer confirming her suspension until such a time as she can demonstrate that she can continue to work, go to a solicitor and ask him to instigate litigation against the Home Office to recover your wife's loss of earnings. You might be covered for legal costs by a household insurance policy.

Scouse.

[vinny]

Perhaps she can refer her employers to Chapter 1 -General provisions, Section 5 - Section 3C and 3D of the Immigration Act 1971 (as amended).

[mrbojangles]

Would the fact that she has a National Insurance Number not be enough for the employer?

I don't know, i'm just asking

[a man with a plan]

Would the fact that she has a National Insurance Number not be enough for the employer?

I don't know, i'm just asking

No, the have to have to see a valid visa. NI doesn't prove you're allowed to live and work here... it also can't be used to buy fags when you're 15.

[the gent]

You must secure legal representation now. It will not cost the earth and should concentrate the minds of those idiots in the BIA.

There has been a sea change in culture in how applications are considered, a change which has been deeply influenced by an increase in staff who would have difficulty in obtaining employment elsewhere requiring an ability to count to 10 and write a coherent sentence of more than 6 words. In essence the impoverishment of resources in that wretched department has led to a ' tick box ' mentality managed by inexperienced buffoons ill equipped to understand either the legislation or the policy determining their own procedures.

Unfortunately, through no fault of your own, your wife's application is now trapped between the tramlines of BIA's stupidity. Paulwilday had a similar experience which was only redeemed by the intervention of a competent solicitor. If you need a steer in the right direction I suggest you either PM him or the Scouser who sponsors this forum.

Vinny has linked you to the relevant legislation which you could print off and send to your wife's employers as evidence of her continuing permission to work but I suspect that they would only be satisfied by written confirmation of this from the BIA themselves and God knows how this could be achieved quickly.

Get yourself a lawyer and continue your correspondence with the MP who will be aware of an avenue of complaint direct to the relevant Minister responsible, currently the vertically challenged slapheaded Brown sycophant Liam Byrne.

[mrbojangles]

Would the fact that she has a National Insurance Number not be enough for the employer?

I don't know, i'm just asking

No, the have to have to see a valid visa. NI doesn't prove you're allowed to live and work here... it also can't be used to buy fags when you're 15.

National Insurance and buying fags are not the same, although theoretically, you don't get a National Insurance number till you are 16, so maybe you could use it. However, i am sure the Newsagent would want something more substantial.

The reason for me asking in the first place is, what brought the employer to ask the question? My Mrs has been for interviews and they have only asked if she has a NI No. After starting work, she has never been asked to show her passport or visa status. Just wondered

[Thaicoon]

Would the fact that she has a National Insurance Number not be enough for the employer?

I don't know, i'm just asking

No, the have to have to see a valid visa. NI doesn't prove you're allowed to live and work here... it also can't be used to buy fags when you're 15.

If you have a National insurance number, you are entitled to work, by rights you can only get an NI number from the visa you have in your passport, so if your wife has a NI number how did she get it ?,

Regulations may of changed, when my wife applied for her NI Number she had to have the correct visa in her Passport, this was checked, an indefinate stay, they would not give her a NI number before this, on a fiancee visa.

can someone confirm this.

I wish you both all the luck in the world and hope everything works out for both of you soon.

The legal age to buy Cigs now is 18, but you are allowed to smoke from 16, law changed October 1st, so all these 16 year olds who have been smoking. cannot make a purchase, i have newsagent shops, it is fine for an 18 year old to come into the shop with a 16 year old, buy the cigs and just pass them to him, another stupid crazy law by this stupid brainless government, bet someone is on 100k per year who thought this one up.

Edited December 4, 2007 by Thaicoon

[the scouser]

Proper employers are scared stiff of being prosecuted for employing an individual who is not allowed to work in the UK, so they err on the side of caution. The problem with this is the likes of the OP's wife get caught in a catch 22, and although she has a NINO the employer will be aware that her status is to shortly expire. Whilst she has an application in with the BIA, she can continue to work, but employers can't be expected to know the technicalities of immigration law.

If the BIA has given the OP's wife a two-year extension from the outset, none of this would have transpired.

Scouse.