Busted By The Police

[grrr]

I bought a Honda XR250 dirt bike about two years ago in Chiang Mai and have been riding it on and off road trouble free ever since, until today! On the way home with my sweety we rounded a corner near the moat to unhappily see a flock of police. One waved me on through (as usual) but another decided to stop me, probably because he could speak some Engrish or something. To make a stupid story short, once he learned I was not renting the bike he said I had to pay tax on it due to the fact it had no license plate. This tax had to be paid at the police station, and I would have to leave the bike with him on the road. The price would be between 1000B and 15,000B, he was not sure. Once this tax was paid, I still would not have a license plate, meaning this could happen again and again. We ended up giving the guy 500B behind a tree, but now I worry about this happening more often. A few calls revealed to actually get a real license plate would involve a trip to BKK and about 30,000B. The motorbike was 70,000B. As I said, I've been riding here in Chiang Mai a while on THIS bike and never had a problem. Hope it was just bad luck and not a sign of things to come. Anyway, I'm going to stick to the smaller sois more, and ride my bicycle more! If I said it was a rental, maybe he would have let me go...guess I'll try that next time...

[falong]

How old is that XR? Maybe worth it to pay the 30K to get it legal. Will be much easier to sell as well. I bought a KDX 250 in Chiang Mai about 15 years ago. Those days it was easy to ge the registration. It sucks driving around if you are always wary of the police.

[RooBoy]

It amazes me how many people buy unregistered bikes, or buy a bike that noone seems to know where the green book is, or the previous owners paperwork.

The cop was trying it on, usually the fine for unregistered is 1000 baht. BUT, they could technically screw you if you dont produce the import papers showing the bike has had its tax paid when it was first assembled here. (IE every bike that comes in is in a state of dissasembly, and this relates to unregistered bikes).

The capacity law here is up to 250cc from memory, which means technically the bike could be registered as within Thai laws for a few thousand baht. Try finding someone who will do it is another question!

As for registration, be careful who you deal with, as most of the shops which sell big bikes can do the rego for older bikes at what they claim to be a cheap rate, IE 30K baht. Reason why they can do this is because they buy an old bike of the same brand for 10-15K, take the numbers off it, and change your frame number to imitate the wrecked bike, then file for ownership change and engine replacement, as the engine number doesnt match. So you get a semi legal registered bike.

To get new registration on a large bike, you are going to pay 50K baht, and wait up to 6 months depending on who does it for you. All bikes are registered up country these days, then transferred back to wherever the owner lives, after 6 months or so. They use small offices up country to register them as its easier to find someone to bribe to process the paperwork.

I have seen guys with bikes that have had bodgy rego too, an old plate from a thai bike and a dodgy green book, Thais in the know can buy replacement books over the counter, then its just a matter of typing in the details to match the bike and plate...

Even the shops have problems, Teera motorcycles had all their unregistered bikes impounded by customs a few years ago, something about unpaid import taxes, cost them alot of time and money to get the bikes back.

[john b good]

Would you be riding a bike at home without rego plates?

NO! so why do it here.

You deserve all you get.

[Ajarn]

If the bike is legal....Known registered owner, previously registered, all numbers match.... No sweat. Back taxes (about 200 baht per year) plus 20% fine, new book/plate fees....Easy and simple, really.

But, if it ain't legal, forget it, in my experience. Don't believe anyone who tells you that you can get your illegal bike made legal for xxx amount of Baht. I've personaly researched this over and over for the last almost 20 years, and I have yet to ever find a true story of this happening. The closest is someone who has paid xxxx amount of baht to some guy working in a vehicle registration office and gets a new owner's book...Then the instant they try to register the vehicle where they really live, the local registration office notices 'the numbers don't match'. The book is sent back to the issuing office, where it stays, 'under investigation' forever....

This story I've heard a few times-- after it actually happened to me. Bkk and Rayong (Ranong?) are two places that had this happen...

I would love to hear a confirmation that what I'm saying isn't necessarily true, and that, in fact, such a legal deal has been created, and held up to scrutiny.

Buyer Beware, especially for advice.

Cover your ass, in any case. If you ride, remember that you could lose your bike at any moment, though it's a total crapshoot, isn't it? History says it's likely you'll never have a problem (though, since you did, maybe your luck is changing for the worse?...) Pretty high stakes for some, no big deal for others. Personally, I've owned 5 big bikes in Thailand, only one was legal, but it never made any difference to me. Never had any problems, but I knew the limitations of registering and selling, hence, the cheap prices for such bikes. I'm not saying do this or that, but just make sure you've given due consideration to all issues, since the potential consequences of running afoul of the law here is certainly more serious than any country we've come from, right? You may not go to prison for not having a plate at a roadblock, but a subsequent search of your body could turn up that joint you were saving, or hey, you're only a few days late on going to Mae Sai for a new stamp.....Deported, if you're lucky....

Some years ago, I, along with a couple of friends, got stopped at a checkpoint on our way up to Doi Mae Salong . These guys were friendly, but they searched every bike, every passport, every person.....While this was going on, two more farangs on bikes came by, but raced off...Two cops jumped on one of our bikes and gave chase, and a few minutes later, they all come back. The Germans told us they had a joint, and when they saw the roadblock, they feigned not seeing it, and up around the next corner, they tossed what they had. These guys were extremely lucky, in my book. The cops accepted the stupid farang scenario, but they did sarch them with even more vigor than they had shown with us.

Onward, through the fog

[RooBoy]

I think you will find the back taxes are 100 baht a year plus 20 baht fine per year.

Yes the rego can be done and pass scrutiny, have seen it done. Never owned an unregistered vehicle myself, what happens when you are involved in an accident?

[Ajarn]

Yes the rego can be done and pass scrutiny, have seen it done. Never owned an unregistered vehicle myself, what happens when you are involved in an accident?

Yes the rego can be done and pass scrutiny, have seen it done.

Please excuse my impudence, but talk is cheap, especially here. I'll accept that you believe what you say

As for insurance, illegal bikes are not allowed on the road, so they can't be insured against an accident claim. The insurance company doesn't care when they insure you, because they know they're covered, either way. If your bike is illegal, and you register it, the insurance company knows they won't lose any money on you. Hey, you may even get 'preferred customer' status

I've never had an accident, and of the people I know who've had bike accidents that involved the police, their bikes were all totalled. Not sure how much scrutiny the cops give after they've fixed blame for the accident.

[grrr]

Thanks all for the advice and stories (except john b good). Interesting about the insurance...I pay something like 400B/year for it but it sounds like maybe I'm throwing 400B away. Possibly the police could fine me more by NOT having the insurance, even if it means nothing in the event of an accident? The thought of driving a Honda Dream around is quite depressing, but maybe a lot easier.

I have many documents for my bike given to me by it's previous (Thai) owner. From what I can gather, the parts were shipped over seperately from Japan and then assembled by the Dirt Shop in BKK, then sold to the Thai guy, then sold to me. Chances of making this bike legal are slim I think. f#$%^&*!

[duke69]

In my opinion you should try to register the bike or sell it and buy a regular one.

Chang Mai is not so big and you have big chances to meet the same cop again, and again.

You'll end paying "tips" every day "same place, same time", and if you are going to try to avoid his "tea money" will be even worst.

YOUR DAYS ARE NUMBERED, better to sell the bike, anyway you risk to loose it to the police.

INSURANCE: yes technically you're wasting the money since the bike cannot be insured and if you make an accident you have to pay with your own money.

TRY TO RIDE and unregistered and uninsured bike in USA, I'll bet you will find the cops inserting the exaust pipes (when they're hot) in your butt and asking you to smile, before being taken to jail.

YOU PRETEND western style of life, you complain about laws and security, THAN YOU're the first one to cat wild with no rules!!!

[Ajarn]

I pay something like 400B/year for it but it sounds like maybe I'm throwing 400B away. Possibly the police could fine me more by NOT having the insurance, even if it means nothing in the event of an accident? The thought of driving a Honda Dream around is quite depressing, but maybe a lot easier

Yep, having the sticker will definately cut out police inquiries and subsequent fines (400 baht is the 'official' fine, not 1000 baht, as was said before)....But, you still won't have insurance.

From what I can gather, the parts were shipped over seperately from Japan and then assembled by the Dirt Shop in BKK, then sold to the Thai guy...

Very common in Thailand, and not a one ever legally registered, I believe. When I lived in BKK, I had two such bikes, and I followed every lead to that elusive 'legal' status, with results as noted earlier....

By the way, the standard price for one of these after being reassembled is 20,000 baht. Hope you didn't pay much more than that. That's going to be the price another Thai will pay, so if you want more, sell it to a farang

Chang Mai is not so big and you have big chances to meet the same cop again, and again

Good and true point. You do not want to be remembered by the police

[Savage]

Would you be riding a bike at home without rego plates?

NO! so why do it here.

You deserve all you get.

Awww come on, you've got to be kidding

Would you please put a sock in the cake hole you do goody nonce!

You deserve a slap for being a complete <deleted>!

[royar2002]

I am afraid one day it will cost you a lot. Sell the bike and buy one with paper and plates. No more problem with the police anymore. Thailand is not the same before. You have to follow the rules now.

[grrr]

You deserve a slap for being a complete <deleted>!

Thanks Savage for saying what I was thinking...

I am afraid one day it will cost you a lot. Sell the bike and buy one with paper and plates. No more problem with the police anymore. Thailand is not the same before. You have to follow the rules now.

Yeah...this is what I've been discussing with my girlfriend. I really enjoy getting out of the city and in the woods and I just won't feel so cool doing it on a Dream 100. But on the other hand I won't feel so cool in jail either.

By the way, the standard price for one of these after being reassembled is 20,000 baht.

Ummm, sh*t. I paid A LOT more than that...but have had a wonderful, totally reliable bike for over 2 years now...so I'm OK with that.

FOR SALE: 1996 Honda XR250 Dirt Bike. Very well maintained and loved. Her name is Lamyai and she kicks ass when required. Price negotiable, but don't ask me for 20,000B! Comes with some papers which don't mean much, but couldn't hurt.

[p_brownstone]

Would you be riding a bike at home without rego plates?

NO! so why do it here.

You deserve all you get.

Awww come on, you've got to be kidding

Would you please put a sock in the cake hole you do goody nonce!

You deserve a slap for being a complete <deleted>!

I, and I am sure most sensible people, would completely agree with John.

Why on earth does this clown think he has reason to complain - he is riding an illegal, unregistered, uninsured bike.

I would personally cheer any policeman who impounded the bike and locked the guy up for a few weeks for assuming that the Thai laws do not apply to him just because he is a Farang.

[Mai Krap]

Mr. brownstone and Mr. good neither of you seem to have clue as to what goes on about motercycle registration in Thailand and the rules of the road here, or how to get along in a country where nothing is as it seems. If there were a rule book and a rule of law in Thailand Im sure many of our members would choose to live a legitimate tax payers life and probably have no dealings with the police just the ocaisonal viset from MR. taxman. As I write this is not the case, nor does it apear we will be going there anytime soon. If you look back through the post you will see clearly that GRR was not trying to be a CRIMINAL he was only going to the store or home from work. Im sure if he could go to a office and pay a fare registration fee and not be hasseled again he would. Its not like he smuggled the motercycle through customs and nobody knew it was in the country and hes been stealing gas and using the thing to commit crimes in the KINGDOM. If you dont know what your talking about keep your boot and others boots out of your mouth.

[Begs]

Mr. brownstone and Mr. good neither of you seem to have clue as to what goes on about motercycle registration in Thailand and the rules of the road here, or how to get along in a country where nothing is as it seems. If there were a rule book and a rule of law in Thailand Im sure many of our members would choose to live a legitimate tax payers life and probably have no dealings with the police just the ocaisonal viset from MR. taxman. As I write this is not the case, nor does it apear we will be going there anytime soon. If you look back through the post you will see clearly that GRR was not trying to be a CRIMINAL he was only going to the store or home from work. Im sure if he could go to a office and pay a fare registration fee and not be hasseled again he would. Its not like he smuggled the motercycle through customs and nobody knew it was in the country and hes been stealing gas and using the thing to commit crimes in the KINGDOM. If you dont know what your talking about keep your boot and others boots out of your mouth.

Oooohhhh, your so butch!

[astral]

Would you be riding a bike at home without rego plates?

NO! so why do it here.

You deserve all you get.

Quite right John.

Never fail to amaze me how stupid people become when they travel abroad.

[p_brownstone]

Mr. brownstone and Mr. good neither of you seem to have clue as to what goes on about motercycle registration in Thailand and the rules of the road here, or how to get along in a country where nothing is as it seems. If there were a rule book and a rule of law in Thailand Im sure many of our members would choose to live a legitimate tax payers life and probably have no dealings with the police just the ocaisonal viset from MR. taxman. As I write this is not the case, nor does it apear we will be going there anytime soon. If you look back through the post you will see clearly that  GRR was not trying to be a CRIMINAL he was only going to the store or home from work. Im sure if he could go to a office and pay a fare registration fee and not be hasseled again he would. Its not like he smuggled the motercycle through customs and nobody knew it was in the country and hes been stealing gas and using the thing to commit crimes in the KINGDOM. If you dont know what your talking about keep your boot and others boots out of your mouth.

Hmmm

I must admit I know little about the registration of motorcycles in Thailand - however I do know that Thailand is the second largest Market for motorcycles in the world (after Taiwan), so I would hazard a guess that it is relatively easy to buy and properly register a motorcycle here should one choose to do so.

And even after living - legally - in Thailand for over 30 years it is certainly possible that I do not know everything about "how to get along" here.

The facts of this matter are however perfectly clear, this chap chose to buy an illegal, unregisterd, motorcycle and drive it, uninsured, on the roads in Thailand.

He is therefore a criminal in the eyes of the law and has absolutely no cause to complain when he is called to account by the police; he can in fact consider himself lucky that he escaped with having to pay a bribe to the policeman - and not having the motorcycle confiscated and he himself being subject to legal procedings and a large fine or worse.

[Mai Krap]

If you have lived in Thailand for over thirty years and never payed a bribe I just cant believe it. There are so many unregistered motercycles and unlicensed drivers in this country that one falang being harassed and thrown to the wolves is not the awnser. Ive commented before about the dangerous driving in our chosen home. I wouldnt even guess about uninsured unlicensed moter vehicles but I can say I dont remember one post by any falang in a traffic accident with a Thai where the Thai had insuance and their insurance paid for the accident.

[RooBoy]

Yes the rego can be done and pass scrutiny, have seen it done. Never owned an unregistered vehicle myself, what happens when you are involved in an accident?

Yes the rego can be done and pass scrutiny, have seen it done.

Please excuse my impudence, but talk is cheap, especially here. I'll accept that you believe what you say

As for insurance, illegal bikes are not allowed on the road, so they can't be insured against an accident claim. The insurance company doesn't care when they insure you, because they know they're covered, either way. If your bike is illegal, and you register it, the insurance company knows they won't lose any money on you. Hey, you may even get 'preferred customer' status

I've never had an accident, and of the people I know who've had bike accidents that involved the police, their bikes were all totalled. Not sure how much scrutiny the cops give after they've fixed blame for the accident.

Firstly, I have a large knowledge of the Bike scene in this country, and thats all I intend to say on open forum, you believe what you want, the 20 yrs you always harp on about makes u appear a tad arrogant.

Secondly, the insurance sticker is personal liability only, it doesnt cover vehicles, and its somewhere in the vicinity of 467 baht a year, purchased at any small bike shop.

3rd party insurance is exactly the same as what we have back home, covers the other persons vehicle if you are in the wrong, and can be easily obtained from places such as Virayah or AXA insurance.

Comprehensive is also available, although these days almost impossible to get due to large amount of fraud claims from Thai owners of big bikes. As I have had comprehensive for years on my bikes, I KNOW.

As for legal/illegal bikes, let me be more clear, The bikes which have the rego transferred from an old clapper are legal, they are processed by the dmv, and stand scrutiny. It is one of the methods the shops use to register larger capacity bikes. It doesnt however work with new, very large bikes.

Now for the interesting part, an unregistered Thai bike, ridden by an unlicenced Thai, but with a current insurance sticker on it, will be covered by the police in the event of an accident, the rider will recieve hospital cover. Of course the other party needs to be a car or larger vehicle. And yes I have witnessed it firsthand.

Oh and you are incorrect about the 400 baht fine, that is for traffic infringements, for unregistered it is 1000 baht, riding on the highway under the expressway on rangsit, or chonburi highway, the same. Overpasses are also more costly, some even have signs up showing 1000 or 2000 baht fine if bikes use them. This info has come from local police on many seperate occasions, each time the info was the same as the previous officers.

[davethailand]

off road track backs cannot be registered at all, no number plate.

(a friend with a bike showroom told me this)

you will always have to give back handers

[chaiyapoon]

It seems from the replies of the self rightous 'I never do anything wrong nor should you' posters that try to state western values in a country that is still a long way off from gaining that status yet,should see what the real situation is first.

They have never visited the Thai countryside. Out there lack of reg plates on older machines is the norm,as is no insurance tax or helmets.

Yes its wrong, but you try registering a machine moving from one province to another if you haven't sorted it with the original province first you have to go back with the machine have it inspected and queue up for hours and hours and often come back days later to pick up the papers .If anything is wrong nothing will be done and go into the manual filing system never to come out the other end.What are you supposed to do with your motorcycle now?

Many, if not most Thais just don't have the time to spare to visit offices that are often a very long way off.Nothing is easy and only fairly new machines have a complete set of papers tax and insurance.Until Thailand makes the whole process a lot quicker and user friendly then a large number of Thais and farangs will just pay a little tea money when required.

Please don't use your western values in Thailand. TIT prevails.

[RooBoy]

There are plenty of road/trail bikes legally registered in Thailand, you see heaps of them around BKK too, old 2 stroke road/trails. I would hazard a guess his bike has lights and indicators, if it doesnt, then yes he cannot register it. In fact if he has no lights/indicators then I am amazed he has ridden around for 2 years on it!

[Ajarn]

Firstly, I have a large knowledge of the Bike scene in this country, and thats all I intend to say on open forum, you believe what you want, the 20 yrs you always harp on about makes u appear a tad arrogant

Okay, you stand by your alleged 'knowledge', I'll stand by my direct experiences...over 20 arrogant years.

Give me a phone number of ANYONE you know who has made an illegal bike legal. I'll pay you 1,000 baht if it's really true.

So, lets see who's right and who's wrong. I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is (even if that does sound kinda icky)

And, frankly, I hope I'm wrong. It would help many friends....

[Begs]

If you have lived in Thailand for over thirty years and never payed a bribe I just cant believe it. There are so many unregistered motercycles and unlicensed drivers in this country that one falang being harassed and thrown to the wolves is not the awnser. Ive commented before about the dangerous driving in our chosen home. I wouldnt even guess about uninsured unlicensed moter vehicles but I can say I dont remember one post by any falang in a traffic accident with a Thai where the Thai had insuance and their insurance paid for the accident.

So if this guy ran into you, broke your legs, had no insurance and no money, how would you feel about that?

Would you say, " Oh well never mind, Thai people don't have Insurance, so this guy is ok with me, i will pay the 200,000 baht hospital bills happily, let this persecuted farang go"?

Yea right!

[ZOVOX]

Many of the thais ride motorbikes and drive cars without the proper paperwork, and it is common to pay the police off. But for thai people, it's usually 200 baht. I guess it's higher for farang, just like many other things!

[Ajarn]

Many of the thais ride motorbikes and drive cars without the proper paperwork, and it is common to pay the police off. But for thai people, it's usually 200 baht. I guess it's higher for farang, just like many other things!

Yes, my experience has been, 200 on the street, 400 at the station. And that's for my farang friend, too, who insisted to himself that the station cops would buy his story about why his bike was missing his tax sticker...They didn't. This was in CM, just after Songkran, and he called me for advice...My advice was to not waste his time and pay the 400 baht they demanded...

[Mai Krap]

Ive already been ran over and had plenty of other bad stuff happen and in the end I payed even though it wasnt my fault or at least according to my thinking it wasnt but I dont make the rules here, I just live here. "Pay as you go".

[royar2002]

Give me a phone number of ANYONE you know who has made an illegal bike legal. I'll pay you 1,000 baht if it's really true.

So, lets see who's right and who's wrong. I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is (even if that does sound kinda icky)

And, frankly, I hope I'm wrong. It would help many friends....

I am in with 1000 baht too, have to bikes who "wants" plates.

[falong]

Firstly, I have a large knowledge of the Bike scene in this country, and thats all I intend to say on open forum, you believe what you want, the 20 yrs you always harp on about makes u appear a tad arrogant

Okay, you stand by your alleged 'knowledge', I'll stand by my direct experiences...over 20 arrogant years.

Give me a phone number of ANYONE you know who has made an illegal bike legal. I'll pay you 1,000 baht if it's really true.

So, lets see who's right and who's wrong. I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is (even if that does sound kinda icky)

And, frankly, I hope I'm wrong. It would help many friends....

So you're saying that all those motorcycle shops selling the 300k baht tenere's or whatever are full of BS when they say they can make it legal for 50K?