Circumcision

[DaffyDuck]

Yes, lets all not do what we as the parents of 'OUR' children think is best for them and sit back and listen to you two.

Well, for those neanderthals that still consider children to be THEIR PROPERTY, to do with as they please (and especially if that includes marking and branding them with their particular club's emblem), I guess that attitude would be perfectly okay. Give us a holler when you're ready to come down from the trees, m'okay?

[waveydavey]

but then I am not into any freeky religons or have bible hangups and dont go tae Mass any more....WOT...and I even met the Pope once....

Agreed that any grown, self-responsible adult should be able to do whatever they want to themselves, though I am curious as to what particular reason motivated those who had this performed as adults? Bible hangups? Religious ritual?

I had it done as an adult for medical reasons. Had problems with the foreskin splitting during sex - I guess I'd just grown too big for it....... Apparently it's a fairly common ailment.

[DaffyDuck]

I had it done as an adult for medical reasons. Had problems with the foreskin splitting during sex - I guess I'd just grown too big for it....... Apparently it's a fairly common ailment.

Fair enough, and thanks for stepping up to explain this - yeah, in the case of medical conditions, where the procedure would actually improve conditions, I *can* understand it (obviously) - so, again, thanks for the explanation, and glad it worked out for the best for you.

[geriatrickid]

It is unfortunate that a simple request has become an issue of pro vs con. If one is contrary to the procedure, so be it, but please leave out spurious statements or false claims. The gentleman made an inquiry as to the availability of the procedure, not a solicitation of people's views of whether it was "right" or "wrong".

In respect to the neanderthal comment, if I was still a neanderthal or even a bushman running naked through the savannah, I would certainly see the benefit of the argument against. Although Africans such as Mr. Mandela's Xhosa and Australian aborigines were circumcising for cultural reasons long before the western world discovered the procedure. However, as I am not a nudist, I think I will just consider it a vestige of a time when wisdom teeth, back hair, and the appendix were of use.

Edited October 29, 2007 by geriatrickid

[DaffyDuck]

In respect to the neanderthal comment, if I was still a neanderthal or even a bushman running naked through the savannah, I would certainly see the benefit of the argument against.

Actually, neanderthal or bushmen *would* in fact benefit from the procedure, simply due to their environmental conditions, their primitive lifestyle, and their equally primitive unfamiliarity with proper hygiene - thus, I completely see the benefit, and need of circumcision in those instances (or the above mentioned medical conditions). ;-)

[thaigene2]

A medical debate has been raging for years on the efficacy of doing it at all. The pro-circumcision crowd say it's more hygenic (easier to keep clean)

Always amazes and amuses me how many people seem to be entirely unfamiliar with the invention of a couple of devices called 'the shower' and 'soap' (either that, or too lazy to be bothered), and then decide to undergo the 'convenience for dumb people' ritual in adulthood.... but hey, to each their own.

I'm quite 'whole' and have never had any complaints whatsoever - of course, I do know how to take a shower :-)

Still, in all seriousness, amazing how many people confess to having this done as adults. Oh well,

Yes, well I actually agree with the last point. Can't see why an adult would go through with this. But maybe they have reasons less aware to us. But for those of us already "done", I think women actually prefer this (at least that's what I've been "told" - Oh no! Here it comes!! Flame me! -- Hey - Personally, I can't imagine it matters much! But go on..)

[Sheryl]

Adult male circumcision is usually done for medical reasons, there are several fairly common conditions which make it necessary.

One reason some parents have for circumcising male infants is to avoid the possible need for doing the procedure at a later age (for medical reasons) when it would be more traumatic. Another reason is psychological if the boy is going to grow up in a culture where most other men are circumsized, then (the reasoning goes) it is better psychologically for him not to be "different". Then there are hygiene/disease prevention considerations (definitely does reduce the risk of tranmsmission of HIV and other STDs) and lastly, for some people, religious factors.

I'm not arguing for or against, just pointing out that there can be well-considered reasons for choosing either way.

There's a lot of misunderstanding regarding how male circumcision relates to various procedures sometimes practiced on girls and women. Female circumcision would mean the removal of only the foreskin from the clitoris. It too is sometimes necessary for medical reasons. Like male circumcision, it does not prevent a normal sexual life.

However most of the time when there is talk of "female circumcision" the term is being erroneously applied to procedures which involve complete removal of the clitoris and sometimes other parts of the genitalia as well, for the specific purpose and with the effect of preventing the woman from experiencing sexual pleasure. These procedures are not circumcision at all, but rather Genital Mutilation, and in no way can they be compared to male circumcision. An equivalent male procedure would have to involve removal of the penis altogether.

[seonai]

ThaiGene2 :D :D

[Oleg_Rus]

Hi

A friend of mine has a son. H'es 1 and a half. My friend is a muslim. He wants to have his son circumsised. I promised to ask in here and report back to him. Anyway, anyone know where this can be done "safely" in Thailand???

Cheers

I have same problem. My gf is new convert, she asked me to find the proper and safe temple for her religious needs. Unfortunately, due to excess of idols, she couldn't find the right one yet.

Searching the net didn't help much, instead - it made things worse - she came to some weird gathering somewhere at Sukh-t where they discussed pan-teism

If anyone can help, please

thanks

[Nomad97]

but then I am not into any freeky religons or have bible hangups and dont go tae Mass any more....WOT...and I even met the Pope once....

Agreed that any grown, self-responsible adult should be able to do whatever they want to themselves, though I am curious as to what particular reason motivated those who had this performed as adults? Bible hangups? Religious ritual?

As Sheryl said, the most common reason for adult circumcision is medical reasons. Mine was too tight and I could not wash properly under the hood. This led to an infection called Balanitis. Whilst I did not welcome the operation at age 21 years old, I can assure you that it was absolutely necessary and that I have had no problems since.

[torrenova]

Is it just me or is this barbaric practise in the name of religion or some other mumbo jumbo just a hark back to the dark ages ?

For medical reasons yes, for consenting adults ok (if you're daft enough) but for parents to force it upon kids is wrong.

If this practise was invented today it would be outlawed. It should be anyway.

[bina]

torre,

my son doesnt remember his circumcision and we photoed the whole thing, i stayed in the back with most of the younger mothers and then breast fed him and he was fine...aged 8 days.

he and all his mates and uncles and granddaddies and cousins have no complaints; they wouldnt know what a non cut penis looks like and anyone that doesnt ahve it done here definitely would suffer when in army or anywhere else that men usually are stripped /exposed and yes, they do compare.... my son's points slightly to the left when he pees since that was how he was snipped. at age three the mohel (professional circumciser) checked him again and pronounced him as " he'll have no problem making u a grandmother when t he day comes"...and he should just take more careful aim...

there are many jewish jokes based on the circumcising practices and outcomes but know of no one, muslem or jewish who complains about it-- they all think that its wierd not to have it done...

but dont want to get in to the pros/cons just thought id put in my two shekels worth...

[geriatrickid]

double post, sorry

Edited November 4, 2007 by geriatrickid

[geriatrickid]

Is it just me or is this barbaric practise in the name of religion or some other mumbo jumbo just a hark back to the dark ages ?

For medical reasons yes, for consenting adults ok (if you're daft enough) but for parents to force it upon kids is wrong.

If this practise was invented today it would be outlawed. It should be anyway.

Nope. If had not existed, we'd be probably be doing it with no hesitation today. The results of all clinical trials as well as the irefutable evidence as the primary introduction vector of HPV into women would have made this a procedure of choice with minimal fuss. The reality is that because it was associated with religious and cultural practices and the assumptions derived from them. there was alot of negative baggage attached to it. If one steps back and simply looks at it for the minor procedure that it is, it's not an significant issue. The removal of wisdom teeth and any invasive surgery carries more risk of complications than this. Bit odd, that no one from the infectious disease specialties, or with work experience in epidemiology or any of the national associations of Urology has ever been given to the same negative statements as has come from groups that are removed from the actual issue. It took 5 years of struggle before the WHO would deal with the issue because of the social issues attached to it. Same thing for US NIH. Science wasn't the obstacle. It was a very vocal group of "moralists".

And if we banned the procedure, guess how many thousands of people would die? Bet you didn't know that neonatal foreskin is used to harvest fribroblasts necessary for the creation of artificial skin. Without it, most burn and many pediatric cancer victims in need of skin grafts would be denied treatment. Alot of european folks are walking around technically part jewish or american wasp or Korean today because the fibroblasts used to supply europe comes from the USA and Korea. Talk about poetic justice, that the Swedes so opposed to the practice, gladly purchase US supplied artificial skin base. If the people so opposed to the procedure started practicing what they preached, i.e. no use of skin graft products derived from neonatal foreskins, I'd take them more seriously. I dare Norway and Sweden to stop treating patients with the products because I'd love to see the the poliitically correct folks spin that out especially when the pediatric burn unit turns into a palliative care ward.

What we have here is the attachment of a lot of emotional dribble, both in favour and against, that have nothing to do with the procedure. Lots of assumptions drawn - i.e. Pro- it's cleaner, not really, depends on the weenie, or Con- loss of sensations - a totally unsubstantiated allegation with all studies showing no direct relationship, that people make a big thing out of the removal of a couple mm of skin. The whole pro-con argument is an exercise in silliness. If someone doesn't want it done, whoopdeedoo - don't do it and carry on. If someone wants it done - have fun and carry on.

[MrSquigle]

Funny...the duck thinks a 2yo is capable of making thier own decisions.

Yes a child is mine, mine and the mothers, they are ours, they are part of us....if you think any different you obviously do not have children and probably never should with that kind of ignorant attitude. We make the choices for OUR children because they are incapable of making their own just yet.

Or perhaps we should let the 2yo run the show, sure that would give the duck a run for his money.

As a child grows, they become more of their own person and eventually at a cetain age, varying for all, they can take care entirely of themselves. But until then they need OUR care, attention and direction in ever decreasing degrees as they grow up.

Morally we have the burden every day to try to do and make choices best for our kids, some choices may not turn out to be correct, but you cannot get everything right 100% of the time.

If parents did not do what they feel are the correct and best options for their kids, then it would be like Disney letting a sex tourist work for them.

Ps, I am thinking to get a tatoo for my son, now 6yo, perhaps a bar code accross his neck or a micro chip under the ear...what ya think duck ?

Besides, I can prove my penis is much more handsome than your shriveled cuban cigar lookalike.

[bina]

geriatric,

forgot to mention that if u curumcise according to the halacha, then the foreskin is buried in a special box of sand, cause most jews believe that u must be whole to be ready for the day the messiah will arrive etc., hence israel's problem with organ transplants (a very low turnout of people sign the organ donation forms), tattooing, etc... so not sure where foreskins come from among us (the jews i.e.); although actually on kibbutz i dont believe the mohel did the whole mumbo jumbo with the foreskin burial as i saw with my nephews, but our son was done in town with a morroccan mohel as that was where we lived at the time and a morroccan family helped us with the ceremony (us kibbutznik heathens dont know zip about religious stuff... heaven forgive us the mohel said)

cant say i notice the diff between the withs and withouts as far as performance etc...

[geriatrickid]

grr 2x again

Edited November 4, 2007 by geriatrickid

[geriatrickid]

geriatric,

forgot to mention that if u curumcise according to the halacha, then the foreskin is buried in a special box of sand, cause most jews believe that u must be whole to be ready for the day the messiah will arrive etc., hence israel's problem with organ transplants (a very low turnout of people sign the organ donation forms), tattooing, etc... so not sure where foreskins come from among us (the jews i.e.);

I was anticipating such an observation but had left out a comment from my long post. As you know, if it means one can save a life, one can get a dispensation. In the diaspora, reform & conservative rabbinical colleges said it was ok to donate. Hadassah hospital and chaim Sheba have burn units that use the products and it being Israel means that certain items are done with a wink & a nudge. Sort of like the fact that Israel has pork producers much to the dismay of some.

In Thailand, where, the campaign will soon be getting under way as part of the HIV prevention strategy, there's some discussion of recycling the bits, but I think it's still up in the air. They're going to be so totally puzzled by some farangs calling them butchers over something that is no biggie to them. I'm going to have a good chuckle when that happens.

[Patsycat]

Does anyone remember in the film "Meet the Fockers" when Ben Stiller's foreskin landed in the fondue!!!!!

[tropo]

A medical debate has been raging for years on the efficacy of doing it at all. The pro-circumcision crowd say it's more hygenic (easier to keep clean) and some even say that it slightly desensitizes the tip which can help with, ahem, 'stamina'.

The anti-circumcision crowd says if nature had wanted to remove the hood it would have done so.

As I say it's been going on for years. But if you do it, it's better to do it younger I reckon.

It's a religious tradition/ceremony, nothing else. It's amazing me that non-Jews and non-Muslims still do it.

It's better for the male and his partner for him NOT to be circumsized. It amazes me that the reasons why non-circumcision is better are not obvious to most people.

Here's a clue...reduced friction which of course is one of the main purposes of the foreskin.

The cleanliness issue is just an excuse. It's like any other body part....you wash it! Removing it just to make cleaning easier is ridiculous.

Edited November 7, 2007 by tropo

[popshirt]

My Thai boyfriend is going to have a circumcision at age 26 because when we are thrashing around his foreskin sometimes splits and bleeds. He applies antibiotic cream several times a day as a result and often (too often) must take a holiday from what we enjoy so much. He can't wait to have it done.

[tropo]

My Thai boyfriend is going to have a circumcision at age 26 because when we are thrashing around his foreskin sometimes splits and bleeds. He applies antibiotic cream several times a day as a result and often (too often) must take a holiday from what we enjoy so much. He can't wait to have it done.

There's a number of reasons why this could happen:

1. He's allergic to your secretions or you have candidiasis (thrush). Don't laugh, this is very common. I've had my skin blow up like a balloon and split within a few minutes of penetration.

2. He has an untreated fungal or yeast infection. This is commonly picked up from the vagina and you will probably have it too (assuming you're a girl that is). It causes the skin to become very weak and it tears easily.

3. He's used cortisone cream for too long and the skin has become atrophied. At this stage the condition will probably be permanent.

4. He's going in too soon without enough lubrication. The foreskin needs to be treated with a degree of respect.

Circumcision may not cure his problem. What you need to do is find the root cause.

[MrSquigle]

'the root cause'...................exactly

[tropo]

'the root cause'...................exactly

:cheesy: