Are Educated Professional Thai Men Not Good Enough For Expats? Discuss

[PeaceBlondie]

flightcrew brings up a valid point: having time available for a partner. Just before I gave up on dating women, at age 52, I placed a personal ad and got 35 responses. One of the women I called asked what I did. I had a full time professional job, was sole custodial parent of three teenagers, active in the community, etc. She pointed out that I wouldn't have time for dates or for paying attention to a long term partner. She was right.

Last night I fell down on the way to a friend's house, and I hurt myself. My boyfriend, who works the night shift, cancelled his shift and stayed home to dress my wounds. In contrast, I never stayed home all day from my work as a manager, to take care of my own children!

[ProThaiExpat]

flightcrew1: Well said. There is a great deal of truth in what you say but with the usual caveat about generalities being dangerous.

Having corresponded on the internet with over a hundred Thai guys before I settled here, it was not long after the conversation began, that I was able to spot Thai-Chai guys. Their family, work ethic and community position concern is pronounced and something many retirees want to leave behind them in their home countries. You pointed that out clearly.

For those that like younger guys, those Thais that look ten years younger than their age is a major plus, especially if they have a trim or athletic body. Those who are caught up in careers and family may well not have the time or the motivation to be physically active. I recall one gay career guy back home that told me in rare moment of honesty that he realized early that he was not physically attractive enough to attract the kind of gay guy he wanted, so he went for money, power and career so he was able to attract them that way. Clearly such an approach would not work with falang retirees.

There surely must be a whole community of career minded Thai guys in BKK that ascribe to power, money, position and influence who would find like minded individuals, providing, of course, that they want such a close match as themselves. Opposites do attract, as we all know. As you said, flightcrew1, retired falang, in most cases, would not be attracted to this group.

My six year love affair with an Issan boy has been great, but, yes, I would want him to be more intelligent, come from a rich family, be better educated, be better with money, etc. but you can't have your cake and eat it too, in other words you make your choice of what qualities in a lover you want and just hope you fall for one that has most of them, or a degree of some of them.

Of the older falang with younger Thai b/fs, long term ones, that I have gotten to know, it seems that looks of the Thai boys isn't as important as availability and English language capability. I am sure that if Timothy wanted one of these poom pui retired older falangs, he could easily find many who would go for him if he played dumb, dressed in a sexy manner, spoke good but not educated English and made himself available, (as you said), putting his world travel, education and career motivation in the closet.

[999999roses]

Hmm.. flightcrew's analysis makes sense.

I think I understand the expats in Thailand a little better now.

[TopChinese]

I think I understand the expats in Thailand a little better now.

Yes, these guys are looking for full time nurse/maids/sexslaves. Not equal partners.

Maybe that's why they hunt in Thailand and not in their home countries. Thai people must have more self-pride than to settle for these spoilt brats.

[tiza]

Timothy,

Off topic, where did you get your education in UK? i am going to do LLM next year in Uk and hopefully I will go to the right place for study and the right place to enjoy life

Congratulations! Being a solicitor is a very difficult well paid job that needs a lot of dedication.

As for me, I have no problem at all with getting attention from some older farang guys. Maybe it is because i am a darker Thai -Chinese living in Isaan for the first 15 years of my life, So basically I got many mixture in myself :-P. if there 's a problem, it is because I like farang guy my age 20-30, i am 22. I had two relationships before with two farang guys in their late 20s but they always lasted very short. It is not easy to date a farang under 32 here in Thailand especially if he is considered by other Thais good looking.

One thing that I have been concerned is I don’t think Thailand is an ideal place to form a solid relationship. I don’t know how to back up this idea but it is just my feeling telling me that the whole Thai gay scene is much more on the tourisy side rather than the urban side. I am really concerned also about how I will be aging as an older Thai gay person. Most people I know are either in the closet (and don’t look so happy) or already dress like a woman. If someone will be in the middle then it is the manager or owners of gay business etc.

Thailand is also interesting in the way that the more educated the family is the less acceptance of gay children, in contrast to some other socities. Maybe it is losing face stuff??

At the end I think love/dating/meeting are based a lot on destiny and unpredictable consequence so I already told myself to just go with the flow and enjoy life. But I do plan to either move to Amsterdam, or collect money so that if I don’t have any lover then I can use a hot young farang call boy service In the future :-p

For dating a farang in Thailand, the more tourisy, the younger and the more free time you have (cited from above opinions), the better chance you will be. But for finding love…hmm must go to temple and prey

[peekint]

Timothy,

The problem for farang interested in educated, professional Thai guys seems to be twofold:

1) Where do you meet professional, educated, available Thai Gay men?

2) Many professionl, educated Thai Gay men seem to put their jobs before their social life, which limits opportunities to get close.

I agree with many of the posters that three months is a bit quick to be judging the opportunities open to you. A good friend of mine often reminded me, when I despaired of finding a mate, that "You have to kiss a lot of frogs before you find your handsome prince".

I'd also like to second NeilRob's suggestion that you might be more successful in a Western country finding a Western partner. Many of the Westerners looking for partners here are here because they like Asian culture, ideas, and values. You sound like you've been quite successful in adopting Western ways and values.

Whether it has to do with opportunity, availability, or culture, if you like living in Thailand, aren't afraid of self-examination (often our failures are primarly due to oour own devices), and genuinely want what you are looking for, then keep trying and you'll find it. It seems you are use to success, so why not in this case?

[Trouble]

Timothy,

You sound like a dream come true. Young, self-sufficient, intelligent, decent guy. You have been given lots of input to your original post and I think generally pretty good by the posters here. You have, however, failed to be very specific about what you are looking for. I realize you have not made any mention about being on the "hunt" but have only made some observations about farang in general. You have not revealed anything about the age group of farang you are interested in nor mentioned the age group you are making the generalizations about. I think the younger expat farang might be in the same boat you find yourself. The older expat farang is probably retired and at a different point in his life than you and maybe even a little shocked a younger educated guy like yourself could be interested. Believe me I can relate to that thinking but as you will read below it can happen.

I can tell you that having travelled to Thailand for many years I have met a cross section of Thai society and like many I have had boyfriends that were on the lower end of the economic spectrum. That is not an easy situation. I am facing the fact that my life is going to make a great change here in the early part of next year as I will be retiring. I had always thought I wanted to retire in Thailand because like many I too like the younger crowd (and attracted to Asians). I will freely admit it is not necessarily a sexual thing. I genuinely like being around younger people because it keeps me young (well at least mentally). Thailand seemed like the only place I could make this happen. But it was not. I got lucky last year and met a Thai student here in Los Angeles. For some reason he seems to like this older guy and we have been together for over a year now. I was worried that when he completed his Masters Degree he would return to Thailand as he is here on a Thai Air Force scholarship. I got lucky as we have just been informed that he will be continuing on to get his PhD so he will be here for another 2 to 3 years. It will give us a chance to continue to cement our relationship. When he does return I hope to go with him as I am sure after 3 or 4 years we will have gone thru the ups and downs of a new relationship and find that we really want to be together. I cannot live in Thailand full time as I have family and friends here at home and around the world that I fully intend to visit and I want some time and freedom to do that. That is part of what I want retirement to be and I have worked hard to attain the ability to do just that. So I am hopeful that my guy will have his career to look after in the Air Force and I will have my retirement and travels. While we will hopefully spend most of our time together, he understands my need to fulfill some of my dreams as well. I enjoy the fact that he is an independent thinker, smart, well educated (studying things I can't even comprehend), and while he is young and quick thinking I bring some wisdom to our relationship and he enjoys that from me.

Sorry for the long winded history here but what you must realize is that there is probably someone out there farang (if that is what you want) or Asian that can fulfill your needs. It won't be an easy road and yes you will be competing with losts of eye candy our there, especially in Bangkok. However I know there are guys out there in Thailand that want relationships with guys that are not financially dependent on them, that can discuss politics, world affairs, etc. So like some of the posters have said, 3 months is a short time and you are likely to find it when you lease expect it. Good luck! I hope you do run into some farang and/or Asians that are exceptions to your generalizations.

[Guest]

I think one problem that relates to this is that most farang when they come to Thailand find it almost impossible to break into the gay middle class. These guy generally wouldn't be seen dead in places like Silom or Pattaya. I am fortunate that my boyfriend is from a very well connected Thai family and he has a lot more money than I do. But we met in the UK, not in Thailand. His gay friends tend to get together in restaurants and hotels, rather than bars.

[flightcrew1]

I think one problem that relates to this is that most farang when they come to Thailand find it almost impossible to break into the gay middle class. These guy generally wouldn't be seen dead in places like Silom or Pattaya. I am fortunate that my boyfriend is from a very well connected Thai family and he has a lot more money than I do. But we met in the UK, not in Thailand. His gay friends tend to get together in restaurants and hotels, rather than bars.

Oh God...if this was 10 years ago i would agree with you. When is the last time you were in Soi 2 or 4 in Silom? Thai middle class not go to Silom? California Wow for one is located right in the middle of Silom and that place is more gay than most gay t clubs. The "Majority" of the Thai guys on Soi 2 are middle and upper class. Living here for nearly 7 years and being a member of California I see the same guys that go to the gym at Soi 2 and 4. I work for the airlines as does my Thai BF and he is "Thai Upper Class" as well as his friends "who are well connected" and they go to Soi 2 or Soi 4 to the Sphinx to sing Karoke. Yers ago I remember it was popular to go sit in a coffee shop at some hotel with gay friends but not anymore.

On a side bar. If you look back at my previous posts on this subject you will see that I did manage to meet Timothy and he was everything he said he was and were trying to get together again. We did manage to finally meet again for a lovely dinner. His 2 mobile phones sat on the table the whole time not far from his reach and he excused himself several times to take office phone calls. Dinner finished at 930p and he informed that he was going back to the office to finish up a "deal". I believe this as he is a complete workaholic. Before leaving I mentioned that I was having a Christmas party at my condo on the 21st at 7p and that there would be lot's of single farang and nice educated Thai guys. He seemed excited about this. Fast forward 2 weeks and did not hear from him as usual. The 21st I received an sms asking about the party and informed him that yes I was looking forward to his coming over. He mentioned that he may have to work late but would be there about 9pm. At 11p I received an sms from Timothy saying he would be leaving the office "soon". I sent an sms back saying the party was winding down and not to bother as I knew he would not show up till midnight at the earliest.

So what do you think? He wants to meet someone and he had a great oportunity to do so as I had over 40 people as my place, but as I said work comes first for him. He is also totally involved with his straight friends here and is only "out" to 2 of them. I think if he does meet someone it will be very frustrating for the other guy. You will never be first in his life. If he had been my date for my party I would have ended it on Friday evening.

[geriatrickid]

Ouch. Cut the kid some slack. He's not a workaholic, rather, that's what is expected from him from his job. My friends,when they started out in the legal profession worked 12 hour days 7 days a week. They'd shower at the office. When I started out I often pulled 18-20 hour days. That's the reality. Until you have lived that pressure and responsibility you won't understand the personal sacrifice and the toll it takes on a person. Those of us that had to do it often lost friendships and family connections along the way. You end up only socializing with people from the office. In hindsight, yes I realize I made some bad decisions and would have done some things differently. On the other hand, my financial security and independence today is due to those work habits in the past. Unfortunately, very few people master that balancing act. Please don't judge the kid from your work experience and social background because it is obviously not the same. You don't know if a rush file came up or if he had to stay because someone screwed up. He's not working late because he gets off on it. None of us did. We had no choice save for leaving that job. Unfortunately that's the industry.

As for being out to only 2, maybe those are the only two that are worthy of such knowledge. In any case, it's none of your business who he is out to or not out to. As for your comment about if he had been your date, it would have been over, well, maybe if you made an effort to understand the pressure cooker he and others like him live, you'd have understood.

I've been in his place and so have many of my friends and the answers you'd get from people that have done something called "paying our dues" would be a lot rougher than what i just wrote.

[flightcrew1]

Ok I agree maybe I've been a bit hard, but Timothy is the one complaining about not being to meet people. I gave him the opportunity to meet people and he blew it. As I said I think he is a great guy and he is all that he said he is but I've met him and he is a workaholic. I've met him three times now so I do have some insight to what he is thinking. I do know what is expected of the legal profession but again "he" is the one complaining of there not being any quality normal gay educated guys to meet - not me. I'm just reporting what transpired. As I said I do believe that work was calling and probably you are right about some last minute thing, but I also think he out to prove he is number one at the office.

As far as my work experience and social background not being the same...sorry but you don't know me. Working for the airlines I also have had to miss many family events, parties for friends, graduations, and many other things over the years. I've learned the balancing act, and yes it is hard, but like you I now have financial security at a relatively young age. I'm certainly not trying to compare my job with your profession but I have made many sacrafices and have certainly paid my dues.

My Thai friends here in Bkk come from many different professions including lawyers, engineers and doctors with some as young as Timothy. They have given me much insight into the Thai Chinese here in BKK. Hopefully he will read your reply and realize that maybe he has to change somethings in his life. But he is never going to meet anyone if he does not learn the balancing act and do somethings differently and make different decisions as you put it.

Financial independence and security is great but having no boyfriend, loved one, friends to enjoy it with is very sad. I will call him again over the holiday and see if he wants to get together with my friends and I.

I won't say you gave me a wake up call but I will say you made me think it through...so thank you!

[Ijustwannateach]

Most guys that I know who are looking for real relationships would ask for more time and attention than Timothy seems to have available right now. If he doesn't even have time for his own personal life, how does he expect that other people will?

However, I agree with Pauln that Silom is *not* a great place for "normal" gay Thais (or anyone, really) to hang out, of whichever economic class, and there are plenty of other choices for them if they don't care too much about meeting only foreigners. If Timothy hangs out in that scene, he's far too likely to be taken for one of the all-too-familiar "helpful young men" parasitically attached there.

Not too many good opportunities for meeting foreigners away from that scene, though- it's the devil's choice. Sounds like he's lost one possibility with flightcrew's party. Priorities, priorities.

[Paully900]

Are Educated Professional Thai Men Not Good Enough For Expats?

- you simply do not find them in Pattaya...