Borehole

[Beardog]

Hi,

I know you borehole owners would love to have this problem!

My neighbor had a borehole drilled 6" pipe setup in Bang Sare. I had a well put in & have 7-8 meters of useable water( a lot) The water table for both area's is 3 meters down & it has great flow.

Derek Had it dug 35 meters & says the pressure comes out at 8 bars(which is way over 35-50 psi. It exploded the first 3 pipes in his bungalo before he shut it off.He does not want to use a tank but has a small tank to remove any dirt or setiment.

He was asking me if I knew anywhere in the Pattaya- satahib area that caries a valve to cut the flow down. I thought it should be easy to find & then I remembered I am in Thailand ,not America. I thought if anyone would know-You have a lot of knowledge!

Thanks

Barry

[Naam]

Derek Had it dug 35 meters & says the pressure comes out at 8 bars (which is way over 35-50 psi).

natural water pressure 8 bars = 116 psi. are you pulling a fast one on us?

[mouse]

Probably drilled and accidentally tapped a water main is what this sounds like.

[slapout]

If what you are discribing is accurate, borehole pressure at surface is 120 psi (plus or minus). You ask for a valve to cut flow down, this will not have any affect on the pressure you get at the bungalo. Regulators are avaliable at hardware shops who sell downhole pumps etc. This is what is used to cut down the pressure to a usuablr level. If the pipe from well to bungalo is holding and leaks are only happening inside it sounds like a poor job of installing water lines or cheap pipe. Heavy duty, blue pipe used for water line here should hold this pressure.

[chownah]

Bear dog,

I do not know where you can get the valve.....

What volume of water is flowing at 116psi (8bars)?

Sounds like your neigbor screwed up big time on his pump selection but to really know we would need to know the well characteristics for an entire year. A 35 metre deep well require about 50 psi just to pump the water to the surface when the water level is at the bottom and no pressure at all when it is full to the brim. This means that if (for example) your neighbor buys a pump which generates 49 psi maximum then it will perform ok when the well is full but will not pump any volume at all when the well is nearly empty. The domestic water systems that I have seen with such a large difference in water table level have always had pressure control tanks.....using a valve to throttle the flow will waste energy I think...how much depends on the details. If your friends water always stays high then I suggest getting a dilfferent pump.

Chownah

[Beardog]

Thats what I thought. I was not sure what 8 bars = but he claims straight out of the ground it is the 115psi all he has is- is a on off device installed to cut it off & no pump. I am not sure why he would even need that.

I am certainly not well versed at water drilling,but it does seam more like the pressure for a oil derek not water.

In Bang Sare you are lucky if you can get 20-30 psi out of the govn. source (unless it was truely a main!

It Does sounds like his borehole digger really somehow screwed the pooch on this one.

I read up on boreholing in this forum & couln't believe he was getting to much pressure when everyone else needs a pump to fet it up to 35-50 psi to make It stable throughout & usable.

I am curious to have a look at it as something does not sound right. Sounds more like a fire truck than a borehole or a water main. I am glad this forum gave good advise on where to put in a dug well as the water is on the surface.

He must of hit a gyser!!!!!

At any rate I will have time about tuesday & have a look at it as it is hard to believe he can have that much water pressure when ambient water pressure would keep it from frothing out of the ground- Oil or Gas yes not water at 1 atmosphere of pressure!

Thanks for the further insight & glad it's not my system!!!

Edited October 27, 2007 by Beardog

[chownah]

Beardog,

Are you saying the water is coming out of the bore without a pump?...if so this would be called an artesian well (at least that is what we call it where I come from). I've never heard of this in Thailand...I thought that the geology wasn't right for that here...perhaps I'm wrong.

Is this in a hilly area?....did your neighbor drill through bedrock?

Chownah

[slapout]

To go along with chownah, I gathered your friend had a artesian well, as you described it. If source of water is 300 ft. higher than well then 120 psi is possible. 1/2 lb. per foot of height above the area of production is very possible (rule of thumb). Springs as I call them, are water flows at the surface, which are found in Thailand, if the source of water is higher than the exit of the water at the surface. You can also have a water sand pressurized by gas, but this would not be normal at a depth of 35 meters. If this is in fact a artesian well, monitor the flow rate from the 6 inch casing and you can look at various commercial ventures. Do not let the neighbors know what you have. Good luck, do not blame the driller for a screw up, instead buy him a big bottle of good whiskey. If I have missed something in my reading of this then let me know and we can start over.

[Beardog]

I thought the same thing it would have to be an artesian well. I guess Slapout just posted they do exist in Thailand. It is a low lying area surrounded by mountains. He did say he went through rock to get the water. He is the only person I know in Thailand that does not require a pump. I went by his house today to see what he has going on& he wasn't home so I will try Tuesday when we get done planting trees. He did say he used no pump. he either has a pressurized well or he could be sitting on a goldmine cause the govn. water sucks here(why I put in a well) If it is true, looks like the commercial fittings are going to be expensive. I want to ask again what size the actual outlet pipe is.

I will no more Tuseday. He did say he was looking for a pressure relief valve(sounded like the type used in commercial applications. At any rate I am curious to see what kind of alternate universe he has going on in there. If it is a high pressure well

his house will be paid for immediately as Bang Sare municipal area has iffy water (sometimes on sometimes off)

I'll keep you posted!

Beardog

Edited October 27, 2007 by Beardog

[chownah]

The key is not what is the maximum pressure it can develop but how much water it can produce at a useable pressure....also.....whether it can produce continually or if it fades over time....it could stop working after awhile if the recharge rate is low.

[Naam]

just a fact to add. if the well is dug 35m and pressure in the house were pipes burst one has to add another 3.5 bars of pressure at the deep end. that would add up to a total of 167 psi. highly unlikely but possible if the water is a direct flow or pressurised by direct flows from the hilly range which runs parallel to the highway in a distance of a few kilometers creating an artesian well.

of great interest would also be how the pipes were attached and sealed after hitting the water.

[Tilapia]

I find this hard to believe 8 bar = 80m high water-tower or 116psi if you prefere that. And it's comming up from a 35 m deep bore-hole, without a pump.....Hmmmmm

[lannarebirth]

I find this hard to believe 8 bar = 80m high water-tower or 116psi if you prefere that. And it's comming up from a 35 m deep bore-hole, without a pump.....Hmmmmm

Time to call out Red Adair's team and cap that well.

[Beardog]

Exactly Lan,

When he told me this I thought of an oil derek not from what I read about boreholes1

The best of my knowledge, I thought the only time you get a good flow of water moving upward was when it is drill bits are first removed. I have not seen his house yet & my girl thinks I had gone to the wrong place to look, but at any rate I doubt even if he hit a water main in this area it would sustain that type of pressure.

I will hunt him down tuesday as there is no one including me that believes he is getting that much flow without some huge engine powered pump. I do not even think the water truck we used for our trees before we got our well dug put out 8 bars of pressure

with his 8hp motor!

Getting some good responses to this thread & learning more about water flow though!

It will be interesting to see what the real story is. I had to post it as it sounded hard to believe to me as well.

3 bars I would easily think is possible, but 8 sounds like an oil well, & it does not match the guidelines of an artesian well for the distance drilled or the area he drilled at.

I will know more of this story Tuesday! I will keep my eyes open for the pot of gold the leprauchans left as well!

Barry

Now if I just could PM Red Adair..........he would know what to do!

[chownah]

Beardog,

I think you are getting the wrong idea. The well could be flowing at two litres per hour but if you try to cap the well to stop it completely then the pressure could go up to 8 bars or whatever. High pressure does not mean high flows....that's why in my previous post I said that what matters is how much water the well can produce at a useable pressure. A well with a maximum pressure of 8 bars could be just a drizzle.

An example: Say you had a pipeline that ran up the side of the mountain so that the elevation of the inlet was about 70 metres (to produce about 8 bars of pressure) more or less above the outlet at the bottom...let's say that at the inlet you had a big lake so that the pipe (let's say it was a 6 inch pipe just like your friends well casing) would always be kept full. Now...with the pipe running wide open then you would have one heavy duty stream of water coming out of the outlet....huge volume.....but......imagine placing a cap on the pipe and drilling a pinhole in the cap. The pressure would still be aobut 8 bars but the flow rate would be small. In this analogy, the pinhole is a restriction of the flow and in a well this can be because the aquifer is not very porous and will only allow water to flow at a certain rate....but even though the rate is low if you try to stop it then it will develop its full pressure which in this case would be 8 bars.

I don't know what your friends situation is....I'm just trying to show how an artesian well's flow rate is not always determined by the maximum pressure it will generate.

Chownah

[lannarebirth]

Well, if any of this is close to being accurate, I'd consider putting a water turbine in the pipeline and generating my own electricuty from it.

[Beardog]

Hi Guys,

I went by & finally got a chance to see his system.I was given the wrong info, As we all suspected He indeed did have a pump!

. He does have in fact a (rather industrial pump) the pump has a bladder system (to stablize the system) . The pump goes to a gauge that does put out 8 bars of pressure. It has some kind of cutoff valve after the gauge.

It was a 6" borehole fitted down to a 1 &1/2" pvc pipe. It will take the skin off your hands as it really has got a helluvalot of pressure. I can see why his pipes were bursting. He is manually shutting the cut off valve down to a third of flow so he can use the system. He has a series of adapters to take the pipe down to 3/4" to go into the house.

The lady who did the work I know & she way oversold him on the job as he needed a well for 32,000 baht +4000-5000 baht for a pump. he paid over 80,000 for the service +++pipes & everything else! The pump looks like it would be awesome for 40-100 Rai of land.

The part he is in need of of to make the system automatic is a pressure regulator valve (pressure reducer valve) Very common to England & America, but he says he is having a hard time finding one.

He has a web diagram that he has shown homepro- homeworks & home mart & they say they do not stock them.

I have seen them everywhere in the U.S. but never needed one here-so I never paid attention if they carry them in Pattaya. Anyone no if the Pattaya area has one?

Beardog

Edited October 28, 2007 by Beardog

[chownah]

for 5000 baht or so he could get a regular domestic supply pump with pressure tank and regulators...his well casing is big enough to leave the other pump in for irrigation if he wants....domestic supply systems need a pressure tank....really small pumps can get buy with a small length of pipe for the pressure tank but I think his pump is so big that he really needs a full on pressure tank with regulator stuff....I'd just get a domestic supply pump with pressure tank etc.

Chownah

[Beardog]

for 5000 baht or so he could get a regular domestic supply pump with pressure tank and regulators...his well casing is big enough to leave the other pump in for irrigation if he wants....domestic supply systems need a pressure tank....really small pumps can get buy with a small length of pipe for the pressure tank but I think his pump is so big that he really needs a full on pressure tank with regulator stuff....I'd just get a domestic supply pump with pressure tank etc.

Chownah

Thats what I would do,since the land is only 3 nahn or 1 Rai at best. If he ditched the present pump & got like a 300 watt mitsibishi like I picked up for my well, it would be more than adequate for his set up. His house is very impressive an 8 million baht monster( I thought it was a modest 2 mill. house) Built in pool a smaller house in front with a smaller pool too.

He could sure afford to sell the other pump & get a 200 watt- 300 watt pump & refit the adapterware he has had to do!

all the joints seem solid & it looks like he knows what he is doing. He would save a lot of headaches- since this seems to be way more than someone without irrigation needs. Thank God He didn't have the fish Koi(colored carp) pool on they would have been the flying fish variety.

My 300 watt irrigates a run of 138 meters(thanks to your help & others on the site!) I don't even think mine is 3 bar unit, but is pretty strong & I would bet will cost a lot less in possible parts & plumbing fittings to repair & he wouldn't have to worry about things wearing out & bursting. I would bet Pen(the ladies name who did the work) was laughing all the way to the bank.

She does a lot of irrigation work & was probably long on selling that pump! If I would have met Derek earlier I could have warned her about her. Wonderful woman she is. She just ripped out 2 Rai of forest behind my land to spite me. She is not to well liked & the Thai's & Cambodians call her SALTY ! At least it opened up an awesome view of the mountains & got rid of a lot of snakes I'm sure. hence why I am Planting some tall trees in back of where the house goes.We are going to need some shade! And I am pretty certain the forest held down the temp a bit. There were some nice older fruit trees in their I would have loved to have.

Beardog

Cheers for the help!!

[Somtham]

...

The part he is in need of of to make the system automatic is a pressure regulator valve (pressure reducer valve) Very common to England & America, but he says he is having a hard time finding one.

He has a web diagram that he has shown homepro- homeworks & home mart & they say they do not stock them.

I have seen them everywhere in the U.S. but never needed one here-so I never paid attention if they carry them in Pattaya. Anyone no if the Pattaya area has one?

Beardog

I tried, in vane, to find one earlier this year. I ended up having a friend hand carry one from the US. If you find one please post where you found it. Sounds like this guy has enough ends that he could just mail order on the net, have it shipped over here and pay whatever duty is required.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=110244

rgds

Oh yeh, How many HP is the pump the guy is using now?

[Beardog]

...

The part he is in need of of to make the system automatic is a pressure regulator valve (pressure reducer valve) Very common to England & America, but he says he is having a hard time finding one.

He has a web diagram that he has shown homepro- homeworks & home mart & they say they do not stock them.

I have seen them everywhere in the U.S. but never needed one here-so I never paid attention if they carry them in Pattaya. Anyone no if the Pattaya area has one?

Beardog

I tried, in vane, to find one earlier this year. I ended up having a friend hand carry one from the US. If you find one please post where you found it. Sounds like this guy has enough ends that he could just mail order on the net, have it shipped over here and pay whatever duty is required.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=110244

rgds

Oh yeh, How many HP is the pump the guy is using now?

Thanks for the link!

Believe it or not it is run off off 240 volts. It most be costly to even turn on.Although maybe not as he uses it sparingly!

thanks again for the link.I will turn him on to it.

Beardog

[Naam]

Oh yeh, How many HP is the pump the guy is using now?

Believe it or not it is run off off 240 volts. It most be costly to even turn on. Although maybe not as he uses it sparingly!

Beardog

with all due respect Beardog... you make me shiver on what voltage do you think other pumps run in Thailand?

[Boksida]

Beardog,

Just to sum up for your future reference before your mate Derek does drugs again and tells you porky pies about his water well:

1. Although there are some artesian wells in Thailand, they are extremely rare (less than 0.1%). Most are sub-artesian however i.e. there is sufficient pressure for the water to rise in the well higher than the depth at which it is encountered but not to the surface.

2. Anybody drilling a water well for less than 40,000 baht is not going to have the equipment or know-how to control a flow from a 35 metre well with 8 bar surface pressure. Slapout will confirm that the deeper the well, the easier it is to control.

3. Chownah is spot on in that your mate can probably get all the water he needs with a conventional household pump. If he wants to control the pump he has, it is probably easiest done with pressure controlled electric switch the same as you will find on the household pumps. The regulating valve mentioned by Somtham is probably not the best. These have an inlet, outlet and return line. The obvious place to dump the return is back in the well which will eventually cause all kinds of crud to grow in the well. The pump will also keep running.

4. Class 13.5 PVC pipe manufactured in Thailand has a 13.5 bar working pressure. If he is blowing up his plumbing, he is using lower grade pipe or has faulty connections.

5. Thai power is 220V single phase and 380V three phase. Your pump will be on the same power as Derek's.

6. Red Adair died in 2004. You can take him out of your address book.

I have attached a couple of crappy photos of artesian wells in Thailand to show they do exist. One shows a well being drilled and the other shows a well being flow tested. Hope all this helps.

[Naam]

Beardog,

Just to sum up for your future reference before your mate Derek does drugs again and tells you porky pies about his water well:

:D

[Naam]

The regulating valve mentioned by Somtham is probably not the best. These have an inlet, outlet and return line. The obvious place to dump the return is back in the well which will eventually cause all kinds of crud to grow in the well. The pump will also keep running.

in Germany most houses are fitted with pressure regulators as the mains water pressure is ~12bar and the usual needed pressure for a single family home is 4-6 bar. pressure can be manually adjusted and a return line is not required.

[Beardog]

The regulating valve mentioned by Somtham is probably not the best. These have an inlet, outlet and return line. The obvious place to dump the return is back in the well which will eventually cause all kinds of crud to grow in the well. The pump will also keep running.

in Germany most houses are fitted with pressure regulators as the mains water pressure is ~12bar and the usual neededpressure for a single family home is 4-6 bar. pressure can be manually adjusted and a return line is not required.

Sorry Naam I am from the U.S. & naive to the electrical systems, Boreholes & Bars as we use psi & most electrical systems are 110-115 volts in America& I am still adjusting to 220-240 volts as well as the metric system.Please excuse my ignorance.

Most of the info is way over my head as I have a well & the forums top coached me through it & it works perfect(the pump system) no leaks & is great.

My acquaintance friend got laid away by someone who obviously took him for a ride as had he have gotten a well on his Soi the water table is at 2 meters & would have been super adequate with a well & a decent 200-300 watt pump with a built in stabilizer instead of the mega system he bought.The pvc he used looks no different than my blue pvc & what I could see the numbers were pretty warn off of it, That & I have no clue on how to read how they grade pvc pipes.If I were him I would do as Chownah suggested & get a regular (small pump as I have) that way he wouldn't have to find a valve that they do not carry in Thailand & sell the 8 bar system to someone that has need of the pump. I am by no means rich , but $100.00 U.S. would be my option! He could eliminate A bunch of components. She sold him a control box shut off valve bladder tank bar gauge & about 4 more things I never have seen. I am not sure of the return line as you mentioned, but I do not have a clue how he would run it back into 1 & 1/2" pipe into the borehole. I am a mechanic by trade & definitely not a farmer.....yet.

And no matter what I take no offense to any comments made on these posts. I am glad others are willing to share their knowledge & I can learn new info for the general things I need to know in Thailand. So far everyone's input is always welcome. Before 3 days ago I didn't know much about boreholes(& still don't) but am grateful to all who have responded to this post.

At least this post was good for a laugh! So far what I learned it was wise to talk on the forum & find out about wells & not be in Derek's position. it was probably better I asked about his question since I am pretty sure he knows less than I do about boreholes(which isn't saying much) Anyway no offense taken & I had a couple of good laughs as well. There is some great humor in this forum!By the way that was funnier than <deleted> when you were speaking in German/klingon last week!

I am sorry to hear about Red Adair-He was the best in the field. I am sure the world will miss him!

Beardog

Edited October 29, 2007 by Beardog

[Naam]

Anyway no offense taken & I had a couple of good laughs as well. There is some great humor in this forum!

cheers Beardog!

[Beardog]

...

The part he is in need of of to make the system automatic is a pressure regulator valve (pressure reducer valve) Very common to England & America, but he says he is having a hard time finding one.

He has a web diagram that he has shown homepro- homeworks & home mart & they say they do not stock them.

I have seen them everywhere in the U.S. but never needed one here-so I never paid attention if they carry them in Pattaya. Anyone no if the Pattaya area has one?

Beardog

I tried, in vane, to find one earlier this year. I ended up having a friend hand carry one from the US. If you find one please post where you found it. Sounds like this guy has enough ends that he could just mail order on the net, have it shipped over here and pay whatever duty is required.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=110244

rgds

Oh yeh, How many HP is the pump the guy is using now?

Derek found the pressure regulator valve today from an Air con man that works on his house. The part was nothing like the diagram he showed me.

Instead it is very beefy cast alloy 3/4 " - 3/4" he is now down to 40 psi & the valve looks like it will last along time.It only has an inlet & an outlet on the valve. His pump setup is a self returning setup.

It was costly(almost as much as a new pump) 3850 baht.

It was purchased 2 kilos from Pattaya(Pattaya Nua) -towards Chonburi

The name of the place is next to GNK(2 shops down)

If anyone needs this beast I would be glad to check into an inquiry & assist you in getting this part.Just PM me if you need.

Beardog