The Dark Side

[cloudhopper]

The cloud hopper recently noticed a neatly printed flyer posted in town signed by "a traveler" or something similar, warning one and all that the police here now have a "zero tolerance" policy and anyone whose urine tests positive for illegal drugs faces a mandatory 45 days in MHS prison then a minimum 5 year deportation. I have no idea if this is in fact true, but am aware of 3 resident farangs who have been recently deported for reportedly minor possession offenses. There has also been a concurrent crackdown on farangs and Burmese working without permits, some farang residences and businesses searched, and the raiding of late night venues.

Normally this sort of thing would be of little concern to the hopper, who is reclusively retired, but she has noticed that several resorts being built around Pai are on land that, at least when she was interested in said land a few years ago for a residence, had no papers. She remembers that while living in Phuket many years earlier a similar phenomenon occurred where resorts funded by wealthy denizens of the nation's capital started appearing on land with (what turned out to be very) newly minted chanote titles. Land values began to skyrocket, and any activity that could have been seen as, well, adversely affecting property values, was eliminated (along with at least one Phuket gov't land official, a poo yai baan, and an environmental activist).

Perhaps it's just a coincidence, and the hopper is not normally given to conspiracy theories, but she wonders - if such a thing could happen in Phuket, could it be possible in a much less sophisticated part of LOS? Perhaps a topic for our fledgling newspaper to report on…

[SoloFlyer]

Any of this happening where Tesco is going up (somewhere near the airport)??

[ThaidleHands]

I'm shocked, shocked! to hear there may be corruption in the remoter parts of Thailand.

[lannarebirth]

Yours, seems a reasonable theory for what's taking place in Pai now. I would say. if one looked a little farther afield, they could see the same things going on in Chiang Dao and Viang Pha Pao as well. My girlfriend says every Bangkokian has a dreaM of retiring to the North some day, maybe she's right, I don't know.

edit: Also, one needs to be a little more specific when discussing "no paper land". There is land that belongs to the forest department, and there is land that is claimed by individuals, under the administration of the forest department, whose intent, eventually, is to give the land chanote title and move it's administration to the land department.

Edited October 28, 2007 by lannarebirth

[sabaijai]

I read the letter posted on the free community board in Pai and found it overly alarmist and mildly hysteric. First of all it implied that urine tests are commonplace in Pai, which they are not. The penalties for drug possession quoted are incorrect as well, although that was the sentence meted out to two longterm resident potsmokers in Pai recently (had they bothered to fight the sentence they would probably have won, but they chose not to). Normally under 15 grams is a 5000 baht fine and no prison time. Deportation only comes in when there is a prison sentence (whether suspended or not).

As far as the 'dark side' coming to Pai goes, Pai has had a dark side dating back a very, very long time. It's a hub for drug trafficking via the back roads to Wiang Haeng, lots of money laundering going on there over the last 30 years, with Lisu, Shan and Yunnanese involvement. Opium is still commercially produced in nearby districts, and there was a 70-kg heroin bust on the main street of town opp the police station a couple of years back. The only thing new about Pai's dark side is farang knowledge of (and involvement in - the largest pot dealer in town is reputedly now a farang, not a local) it.

Lest we forget, most of the north was 'wild west' until 20 or so years ago, and the more remote parts still are.

[tijnebijn]

Yours, seems a reasonable theory for what's taking place in Pai now. I would say. if one looked a little farther afield, they could see the same things going on in Chiang Dao and Viang Pha Pao as well. My girlfriend says every Bangkokian has a dreaM of retiring to the North some day, maybe she's right, I don't know.

edit: Also, one needs to be a little more specific when discussing "no paper land". There is land that belongs to the forest department, and there is land that is claimed by individuals, under the administration of the forest department, whose intent, eventually, is to give the land chanote title and move it's administration to the land department.

Chiangdao ?????

What same things are happening here ?

Can you be a bit more specific please .

[sceadugenga]

I read the letter posted on the free community board in Pai and found it overly alarmist and mildly hysteric. First of all it implied that urine tests are commonplace in Pai, which they are not. The penalties for drug possession quoted are incorrect as well, although that was the sentence meted out to two longterm resident potsmokers in Pai recently (had they bothered to fight the sentence they would probably have won, but they chose not to). Normally under 15 grams is a 5000 baht fine and no prison time. Deportation only comes in when there is a prison sentence (whether suspended or not).

As far as the 'dark side' coming to Pai goes, Pai has had a dark side dating back a very, very long time. It's a hub for drug trafficking via the back roads to Wiang Haeng, lots of money laundering going on there over the last 30 years, with Lisu, Shan and Yunnanese involvement. Opium is still commercially produced in nearby districts, and there was a 70-kg heroin bust on the main street of town opp the police station a couple of years back. The only thing new about Pai's dark side is farang knowledge of (and involvement in - the largest pot dealer in town is reputedly now a farang, not a local) it.

Lest we forget, most of the north was 'wild west' until 20 or so years ago, and the more remote parts still are.

Good post. When my wife was a tour guide in those mountains twenty years ago she used to carry a loaded revolver in her handbag.

[jackr]

the police here now have a "zero tolerance" policy and anyone whose urine tests positive for illegal drugs faces a mandatory 45 days in MHS prison then a minimum 5 year deportation

The law would have field day if they piss tested in Koh Tao.

[lannarebirth]

Yours, seems a reasonable theory for what's taking place in Pai now. I would say. if one looked a little farther afield, they could see the same things going on in Chiang Dao and Viang Pha Pao as well. My girlfriend says every Bangkokian has a dreaM of retiring to the North some day, maybe she's right, I don't know.

edit: Also, one needs to be a little more specific when discussing "no paper land". There is land that belongs to the forest department, and there is land that is claimed by individuals, under the administration of the forest department, whose intent, eventually, is to give the land chanote title and move it's administration to the land department.

Chiangdao ?????

What same things are happening here ?

Can you be a bit more specific please .

I think different posters are referring to different things (maybe opposite things) when they refer to the "dark side". for the OP it seemed to mean the presence of law enforcement and land reform (Thai Style). For others the dark side seemed to mean narco production/trafficking). I was commenting on the land "reform" observation the OP made.

It has been my observation that there has been an acceleration in non titled (but registered and having agricultural use) being queued up for title upgrades. There has been a great influx of Bangkokians I've observed buying tracts of "no paper" land in Chiang Dao and Viang Pha Pao. These are lands that locals have been using to grow agriculture for many years, but are currently under the domain of the forest department. I believe, they believe, that will change in the not too distant future. I do not know if my "analysis" is correct, or if it is, if the buyers are correct in their speculations. It seemed to me the OP sees the "dark side" as civilization.

[tijnebijn]

True that that are many Bangkokians visiting more then normal in this part .

Upgrading of land deeds is also happening , which I hear around here , not

that this is uncommon though , got to do with the Obetoh regulations from

who and where gets next .

Not that it surprises me that there will be more going on , I wonder what

you mean, is it negative or positive with those changes ?

Guess you mean when land upgraded , the farmers sell it and try to find

new farmer land and profit the money right .

Things are slowly changing a bit in CD , not that I mind , it really

is in need for more oppertunities , very low cash here .

[tamsin]

The cloud hopper recently noticed a neatly printed flyer posted in town signed by "a traveler" or something similar, warning one and all that the police here now have a "zero tolerance" policy and anyone whose urine tests positive for illegal drugs faces a mandatory 45 days in MHS prison then a minimum 5 year deportation. I have no idea if this is in fact true, but am aware of 3 resident farangs who have been recently deported for reportedly minor possession offenses. There has also been a concurrent crackdown on farangs and Burmese working without permits, some farang residences and businesses searched, and the raiding of late night venues.

Normally this sort of thing would be of little concern to the hopper, who is reclusively retired, but she has noticed that several resorts being built around Pai are on land that, at least when she was interested in said land a few years ago for a residence, had no papers. She remembers that while living in Phuket many years earlier a similar phenomenon occurred where resorts funded by wealthy denizens of the nation's capital started appearing on land with (what turned out to be very) newly minted chanote titles. Land values began to skyrocket, and any activity that could have been seen as, well, adversely affecting property values, was eliminated (along with at least one Phuket gov't land official, a poo yai baan, and an environmental activist).

Perhaps it's just a coincidence, and the hopper is not normally given to conspiracy theories, but she wonders - if such a thing could happen in Phuket, could it be possible in a much less sophisticated part of LOS? Perhaps a topic for our fledgling newspaper to report on…

Sorry, unrelated, but are you by any chance related to the late lamented Mr Rosner? You seem to have appropriated his writing style.

[siam-i-am]

I'm shocked, shocked! to hear there may be corruption in the remoter parts of Thailand.

Shocked and stunned!

[lannarebirth]

True that that are many Bangkokians visiting more then normal in this part .

Upgrading of land deeds is also happening , which I hear around here , not

that this is uncommon though , got to do with the Obetoh regulations from

who and where gets next .

Not that it surprises me that there will be more going on , I wonder what

you mean, is it negative or positive with those changes ?

Guess you mean when land upgraded , the farmers sell it and try to find

new farmer land and profit the money right .

Things are slowly changing a bit in CD , not that I mind , it really

is in need for more oppertunities , very low cash here .

Right. I would think it to be generally more positive than negative for Thais and farangs too. Except maybe for those who cannot adapt to change.

Edited October 28, 2007 by lannarebirth

[ChiangMaiThai]

A close relative lives in Pai.

Land that had been declared as 'national park' has been purchased by hi-so Bangkok Thais who are now building a resort.

A friend was in a minor traffic accident. Police arrived and gave him a piss test. (He passed).

Police entered another friend's house- married to a Thai with kids. Found two joints. Sentenced to 45 prison and 5 years deportation.

Many other friends pulled off the street and given random piss tests.

It's obvious they are trying to work out the backpackers and bring in the people with money, which is a shame. To be sure, backpackers can be annoying, but there is often nothing more obnoxious than a very wealthy Thai, especially when they venture outside Bangkok.

Edited October 30, 2007 by ChiangMaiThai

[BossHogg]

i wouldnt worry too much....the first resort to be built that goes bust will soon stop the development. These grand shemes never amount to much in L.O.S and sooner or later the banks pull the plug and life returns to what it was before the Bangkok dreamers came

[lannarebirth]

Is "resort" a euphemism for "money laundering scheme". I have been in dozens and dozens of resorts and most sit empty most of the time. One has to imagine that is for some other purpose than to provide a profit, for which they were built.

[mcgriffith]

A close relative lives in Pai.

Land that had been declared as 'national park' has been purchased by hi-so Bangkok Thais who are now building a resort.

A friend was in a minor traffic accident. Police arrived and gave him a piss test. (He passed).

Police entered another friend's house- married to a Thai with kids. Found two joints. Sentenced to 45 prison and 5 years deportation.

Many other friends pulled off the street and given random piss tests.

It's obvious they are trying to work out the backpackers and bring in the people with money, which is a shame. To be sure, backpackers can be annoying, but there is often nothing more obnoxious than a very wealthy Thai, especially when they venture outside Bangkok.

I am certain that more than a few of us would like to see some documentation, links to news articles, etc. before passing comment on your post....

I am not doubting that the area is in transition, and that perhaps some big money is moving in.

But I would like to hear an explanation of "Sentenced to 45 prison and 5 years deportation" .

Does this mean the guy got a 45 year sentence, and after he gets out at age 95, they will deport him for 5 years, after which he can return at age 100? Not to fault your post, or to ridicule, but this seems nonsensical.....

Some clarification, please.

[BossHogg]

A close relative lives in Pai.

Land that had been declared as 'national park' has been purchased by hi-so Bangkok Thais who are now building a resort.

A friend was in a minor traffic accident. Police arrived and gave him a piss test. (He passed).

Police entered another friend's house- married to a Thai with kids. Found two joints. Sentenced to 45 prison and 5 years deportation.

Many other friends pulled off the street and given random piss tests.

It's obvious they are trying to work out the backpackers and bring in the people with money, which is a shame. To be sure, backpackers can be annoying, but there is often nothing more obnoxious than a very wealthy Thai, especially when they venture outside Bangkok.

I am certain that more than a few of us would like to see some documentation, links to news articles, etc. before passing comment on your post....

I am not doubting that the area is in transition, and that perhaps some big money is moving in.

But I would like to hear an explanation of "Sentenced to 45 prison and 5 years deportation" .

Does this mean the guy got a 45 year sentence, and after he gets out at age 95, they will deport him for 5 years, after which he can return at age 100? Not to fault your post, or to ridicule, but this seems nonsensical.....

Some clarification, please.

One assumed the sentance was 45 days not years....surely?

[ChiangMaiThai]

Sorry, 45 days in jail and now deported for 5 years. i.e. welcome to apply for a visa again in 5 years. 2 joints. Police came into his house. No warrant or anything of course. Many friends out walking in town told to take piss tests. Many locals (farang) are totally paranoid now.

Not sure if any news agencies are writing about the goings on in Pi. Some ex-hippies and backpackers getting busted for smoking pot isn't exactly front page material. My friends and relatives have been there 3 years now and this is all first hand info. They say there have been major changes in the last 6 months or so.

Who knows why the hi-so Thais build the resorts. But the land they are on did in fact used to be a national park absolutely off limits to any building.

[BossHogg]

TITS

[Johpa]

i wouldnt worry too much....the first resort to be built that goes bust will soon stop the development. These grand shemes never amount to much in L.O.S and sooner or later the banks pull the plug and life returns to what it was before the Bangkok dreamers came

Yea, just like Samui and Phuket.