How Can Yamaha Or Honda Improve The Nouvo Or Air Blade?

[jackcorbett]

A couple of days ago, I went to Ko Larn Island with my neighbor and we both rented out 125 c.c.Honda Waves. This is my first time driving a Wave. I own the Yamaha Nouvo and have done enough driving of Honda Air Blades to get a feel for this machine and how it differs from the Nouvo and smaller automatics such as the Yamaha Fino and the Honda Click.

First off, I can really recommend renting a bike to anyone going to Ko Larn Island as here the riding is very relaxed and scenic and it gives one the opportunity to really discover this small island. As to how the Wave differs from my Nouvo, it took some getting used to it (and I"m still not used to it). It was a four speed automatic clutch but the shifting pattern is the opposite of all those five speed clutch models I used to own. One shifts down, that is one nudges the shifter downwards to go up one gear whereas in those five speeds it was one down for first after which one pushes the shifter upwards for second, third and so on. Also, because of this bike's only having four gears I did almost all my driving on Ko Larn in 2nd and 3rd.

I never got my rpms up very high. Perhaps this is why many feel the automatics get much lower gas mileage as they are almost always being driven at a higher point of the rpm curve. On the other hand the power always feels to be right there. I also want to comment that these Waves are very light weight and that we actually drove them on dirt trails on Ko Larn Island. My old Honda 185 XL on off road would have really felt at home here and I would have driven it agressively, mainly because of the tire type that has a nobby surface that really grips into sand, dirt, rock, etc. However.......these Honda Waves did manage the task and I really don't feel that Viragos and Phantoms and CBR 400's and the like would have managed it nearly as well if at all. But I will also say that my Nouvo would have done equally well.

The Honda Wave that I drove does not handle nearly as well as either the Yamaha Nouvo or the Air Blade. This bike had a basket on the front and in this basket I placed my bag that had toilet paper, towel, a couple of paper backs, my wallet, etc in it. My overall impression is of a much longer front end than the Nouvo's and the handling was not nearly as sharp. So, I will say this. Both the Nouvo and the Air Blade have ample storage underneath their seats so in the case of my bag, the weight distribution is not affected whatsoever as the weight of the bag is placed in the center of the bike right underneath the driver's butt. Having that basket way out in front of you not only limits one's visibility but it also unbalances the bike by putting too much weight right over the front wheel.

Nevetheless, while driving that Wave, I kept thinking, "This is not really a bad bike at all and it's fun to drive." Then I started to imagine what driving the Yamaha Spark must be like. it has 135 cc's to the Nouvo's 115 and the Honda Wave's 125 and it produces 2.43 horsepower more than the Nouvo which has around 8.9 horsepower to the Spark's 11.33 which comes out to an increase in power of 27 %. That is a pretty big difference.

Two days after our little day trip to Ko Larn, an American friend of mine got a flat in his rental Nouvo. So I went over to his place with my air pump, pumped up his tire and I had him follow me to the Honda shop where both my girlfriend and I get our bikes serviced. My friend is currently staying in Pattaya for two months after which he will return to the U.S. for about a month after which he will come back to Pattaya to start his retirement. I am urging him to buy a bike when he returns and I am suggesting that he also try out an Air Blade thinking he might like it even more than the Nouvo. So this got both of us checking out all the bikes at the dealership.

I noticed that the new 125 cc. Honda Waves have 17 inch diameter tires. The Air Blades have 14 inch tires while the Nouvo has a 16 inch wheel. Also the Nouvo's have a front tire that is 70 mm wide to the Air Blades 80 mm while its rear tire is 90 mm to the Yamaha's 80 mm. But since the Yamaha has a substantially larger diameter wheel there is going to be a tendency towards more straight line stability due to greater gyroscopic effect while driving it when we compare it to the smaller diametered tires of the Air Blade. The Nouvo simply does not want to turn as fast as the Air Blade. However, when we compare it to a front basket mounted Honda Wave it is a very light quick handling bike with a very precise feel to it.

But, the Honda Air Blade is a more compact bike than the Yamaha Nouvo. It's got a shorter wheel base and it's slightly lower to the ground. It also puts a wider patch of tire on the ground being around 12.5 % wider. THis is going to give one a greater sense of that glued to the road feeling. The Air Blade has better brakes so I think it's all around a safer bike than the Nouvo. Contrast the Air Blade to the Honda Wave which has just a 60 mm wide front tire and a rear tire that's just 70 mm wide (both 10 mm less than the Nouvo) and it's no contest. The Air Blade's tires average 33 % wider and that's on a more compact more closely coupled bike. So I think the Air Blade is going to be a much safer bike than the Wave.

At the same time that Yamaha's got a wheel that's 16 inches to the Honda's 14 inches so it's got a circumference that's 14 % greater, Perhaps this is why many riders here are commenting that their Air Blades are slow compared to the Nouvo's. If one can say that the gearing is about equal, as it the power of the two bikes, then that taller tire can be driven at 14 % greater speed which if the Air Blade travels 100 kph translates out to 114 kph for the Nouvo.

So, both the Yamaha Nouvo and the Air Blade have much better handling than the HOnda Airblade which most likely will be fitted out with a front basket. Moreover, they both put more rubber onto the ground so they are going to be safer all other things being equal. Moreover, both brakes on all the automatics are right out in front of you compared to the rear brake setup on most other motorbikes being a foot pedal which I find to be an unnatural position so doing without a clutch which allows one of the brakes to be where the clutch used to be on fully manual bikes makes braking more instinctive.

Now let's talk about reliability. I've had my Nouvo now for nearly two years and I have not had one problem with it be it great or small. In the Honda shop I asked about the transmission belts in the Air Blades and they told me Honda recommends that they be replaced every 24,000 kilometers. They cost just 400 baht to replace. The mechanic then told me that the drive chains in the Honda Waves should be replaced every 1 year and that they cost about the same as the drive belts do for the Air Blades. Plus, I've done a little bit of research on the Internet about the CVT transmissions be they in cars or motorcycles and what I'm gleaning is that they are the coming thing. They are more reliable than other automatic transmissions, they are simpler to maintain, they transmit the power better thus helping the machinery get more power to the ground and they are more economical to operate. So it looks to me they are really state of the art and that they are going to pretty much take over.

So although we might like our Harleys or our BMW's or the Honda Phantom for that matter, both the Yamaha Nouvo and the Honda Airblade are way up on the evolutionary curve. Just pity the poor sap back in the U.S. with his 10 inch wheeled motorscooter that's got to be an unstable as hel_l. Which one's better? That's a hard one to call. They are both so dam_n close and so handy in a place like Pattaya, so cheap, and so good at carrying both people and stuff without a lot of complexity or even a moment's thought. But my whole point of this post is "How can either one be made significantly better?"

Yamaha's already got the 400 c.c. Majesty for the U.S. market which can go around 95 miles an hour, has lots of luggage space built in under the seat ala Nouvo, and which has two drive belts to drive its automatic transmission. From what I've read this is quite a machine and that it's good on the highway and so on. But at over 400 pounds to the Nouvo or Air Blade's 225 lb empty weight it might be just overkill for a place like Pattaya, being not as handy in traffic or as easy to park while offering more speed than is necessary. Same goes for Yamaha's 250 cc. Reflex which also has twin drive belts and also weighs over 400 pounds.

So let's see. Suppose I like the slightly wider tires on the Air Blade at 80 mm front and a 90 mm wide rear width and I wish to incorporate them with the 16 inch wheel diameter of the Nouvo? Or say I want to go with a 90 mm front and 100 mm rear width for my tires. This is going to make the bike ride better and it's going to be significantly safer and more stable. With this kind of setup I'm going to get both the advantages of the Air Blade with the advantages of the Nouvo. BUt how much power increase is it going to take to make this bike drive the way it should? OKay....say we take the 11.3 horsepower 135 cc. liquid cooled engine of the Yamaha Spark as a base to start from and we make it say 150 or 160 cc's at around 13 to 14 horsepower. That sounds like a good concept. However, I already fill up my Nouvo on the average, every five days. It's got around a 1.1 gallon gas tank so we are going to need to increase the size of our fuel tank. Increase the length of the Nouvo's already long seat to fit a Thai family of five? Oh well, that's an engineering problem that has got to be solved because that new Nouvo putting more rubber on the ground while offering more horsepower is going to use gasoline up a little quicker.

And how about that long life drive belt? For some reason Yamaha thinks having two belts in its 250 cc. Reflex is necessary to withstand the extra power and torque. So if we utilize a single belt are we going to get 24,000 kilometers out of it the way Honda gets 24,000 out of its little 110 cc. Air Blade? Okay.....again, that's an engineering problem for a company the size of Honda or Yamaha. It's certainly one I don't want to try and tackle while trying to beef up my Nouvo to come up with a Corbett designed super Yamaha.

So what's this thing going to weigh and how easy is it to manage in Pattaya traffic? It's certainly going to be better on the open road, but then again, what open road are we talking about here? The road to Sattahip Hospital? Anyway, I imagine it's going to be a tradeoff. But now that I've had my Nouvo for nearly two years now I think I'll just keep it until it's three years old, then trade it off for another bike. If I were to bet it's not going to be in the shop with any real problems. Will Yamaha have a newer and slightly bigger Nouvo by then? And will it even want to? And I might just spill out a little cash to buy something a little different, a new Air Blade perhaps. It's just a little smaller than a Nouvo and it's just a little more agile in traffic. It's just as easy to park, carries just about as much stuff without having to fool around with saddlebags and extra rear mounted luggage. And it has better brakes, which is a huge concern of mine since I'm more concerned with survivability (mine) than with nearly everything else. Plus with its low center of gravity and fatter tires it's going to be harder to upset. It's also going to probably be 10 to 15 kph slower. So if it only goes sixty miles an hour I can still cruise 50, can't I? And that's probably fast enough. So if that's fast enough should Yamaha really worry about building a bigger, faster and more thirsty Nouvo? But who knows, I might even buy a Phantom, but my common sense tells me the best all around machine here in these conditions is either the Nouvo or the Air Blade.

But how can we make either one even better? Any ideas? Or are they both nearly perfect for what they really need to do in their present incarnations?

[PeaceBlondie]

Last week on vacation, I rented a Nuovo for five days and a Fino for one day while the Nuovo was getting its flat tire fixed. First of all, do scooters run through tires that fast? My CBR150 has had one flat in 48,000 km.

The automatics both sounded loud, and of course their performance was way below a CBR150. It took me a while to figure out how to open the Nuovo's seat to put petrol in it. The rental Fino's speedometer did not work.

You're right that, other things being equal, the smaller diameter wheels will not provide stability. Control and handling of both scooters was, again, way worse than the CBR150. Everything is relative, and if you must have a scooter, you must. I felt like I was a teenager again, driving a 1957 Cushman scooter. I was so glad to get back on my CBR, with its new rear tire!

[jackcorbett]

I haven't had one flat tire in close to 9000 kilometers driving my Nouvo. Knock on wood. But of course the fact that I brought a nice hand pump back from the U.S. along with my bicycle and try to refresh my Nouvo's tires about once a week might help. I figure that a tire that is starting to run low on air is going to collect nails and other sharp objects faster than one that is running low on pressure and being soft with a lot of give in it is going to be more susceptible to flats. As to your CBR 150, although I have not driven one I like the idea of the bike and would no doubt have a lot of fun on it also. But I don't think it's going to be nearly as practical as the Nouvo. Example....lack of luggage space and a seat that looks uncomfortable for two (I usually ride with my girlfriend on the bike with me). So although I might enjoy driving a CBR 150 more than a Nouvo, I can only extrapolate how it would fit in with my lifestyle. "Where do I put those grocery bags? Where do I put the gym bag with all that stuff I keep in it? How about those books I just bought at Bookazine?" As to my gf's Fino, we've had it for only five months now, but like the Nouvo it's been absolutely trouble free.

Also concerning the CBR 150 what kind of riding position does it impose? A forward leaning position possibly? If this is the case then I would think it to be similar to what I had on my BMW K-100 RS. It was comfortable so long as you were doing over 80 miles an hour. But my BMW 650 was far more comfortable with its more erect driving position.

[PeaceBlondie]

We're comparing lots of different things here, all the way to BMW's. The riding position of the CBR is not extreme; I ride it with a very weak shoulder. The pillion passenger will have her knees in the air unless she's under 155 cm tall. I carry a cargo net under the seat which can carry bags, and the mirror stalks are remarkably strong.

My impression of scooters comes from rental bikes over the last four years. The difference in control amazes me. The automatic scooters have no control of engine speed (no gears), the little wheels and items in the front basket are a problem as you point out; I found the ride punishing on bumps, compared to a bike like my CBR. I never felt safe or in control. Now I'll try to butt out and let the scooter fans have their say.

[dave_boo]

I'm going to agree with PeaceBlondie about the riding position of the CBR.....really relaxed. Also, it's quite capable of minor off roading, since the Wat we usually go to is way the he!! down a pot hole infested road and the CBR handles it with aplomb. In fact it's better than the family's Wave 125i for the simple fact that there's more gears (6) closer together and that seems to let me find just the right one to be in for the conditions.

There's plenty of options for the shopping trip on a CBR. Those mirror stalks make really good bag holders, there's two helmet hooks under the pillion's seat, and you of course are going to have your tilak with you to hold some more!

As a final note, I had a slow leak in my rear tire a few months ago that for whatever reason went away. Never could 'xplain that.