Hanrahan, Robin Hood O'reilly's?

[YoungFarangNa]

these three bars are being sold as a package for 175 million baht. do you think this is a good deal? what would you value them at?

[meom]

Shot in the dark but individually Robin Hood & O'Reilly's ain't worth more than 10 mil a piece. Hanrahan a lot less considering it's been open what? one year or something.

Would be interesting to know how much the lease on O'Reilly's is. I imagine it to be pretty high.

[backflip]

Are you looking to invest in a company?

[Sunbelt Asia]

these three bars are being sold as a package for 175 million baht. do you think this is a good deal? what would you value them at?

As a rule of thumb, based on previous acquisitions of Irish Pubs it would be 75 -90 million Baht for all three locations. This would be based on owner’s discretionary cash being 18-25 million Baht per year. This is a high evaluation with a bid of 75-90 million Baht but Irish Pubs of this type have a higher premium than other businesses.

The lease on O’Reillys should be around 600K per month.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[Prakanong]

these three bars are being sold as a package for 175 million baht. do you think this is a good deal? what would you value them at?

As a rule of thumb, based on previous acquisitions of Irish Pubs it would be 75 -90 million Baht for all three locations. This would be based on owner's discretionary cash being 18-25 million Baht per year. This is a high evaluation with a bid of 75-90 million Baht but Irish Pubs of this type have a higher premium than other businesses.

The lease on O'Reillys should be around 600K per month.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Now if we were talking of O'Reilly's at the Bourse in Brussels where I used to drink it might be worth it - thats the famly owned franchise i beleive with others throughout Europe

[BackinBKK]

If this is true, it seems they would be placing a pretty high valuation on what are three very mediocre pubs in Bangkok. Typically, a buyer would be looking to acquire such businesses at a reasonable multiple of their combined EBITDA (Earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation, and ammortization). It is worth mentioning that, historically, these types of business do warrant and attain premium purchase prices in Thailand. So, instead of the normal 2-3 times EBITDA, they may fetch up to 5 times EBITDA in the richest cases. In the event that these three locations were netting at least 35,000,000 Baht Annually, then their asking price would be within reason as long as they have strong leases and they were willing to negotiate slightly. My best educated guess is that these businesses arent quite doing that much annual NET and that they don't quite warrant the premium of 5 times EBITDA due to the fact that Hanrahan's is so new and just getting started.

In the event they are lookng to get a higher premium based on their prime locations (in the case of Robin Hood and O'reilly's more than Hanrahan's), I would also offer a caution here as the leases also likely carry very high costs/lease risk and play a role in the bottom line of the businesses. If they are at extremely reduced monthly rates because the owners negotiated shroudly or payed a high amount of key money that still has actual value (make sure this can be used by a new owner), then there may be some extra value there.

Without having the complete information, I would assume both buyer and seller would be equally happpy at a purchase price carrying a of between 3-4 for these businesses. On one hand, they are reasonably well known business who together have more value than individually because of increased econommies of scale, cross marketing opportunity, and total size/turnover when added together. On the other hand, Hanrahan's has not stood the test of time and has a B location in my opinion, and the other two have never really seemed to pull the crowds that other competitors have.

Again, I'd look for an offer to start out around 3-3.5 times EBITDA and the negotiation to close somewhere between 3-4.

I'd love to hear some more on this.

[fletchsmile]

these three bars are being sold as a package for 175 million baht. do you think this is a good deal? what would you value them at?

USD 5mio+? Looks a good deal for the seller

Very difficult to put a value on them in the absence of any other credible financials.

Personally wouldn't "feel" like spending more than USD 1mio each on average for them.

[jonniebkk]

Maybe someone can buy them and then close them down and do something to end this plague of English/Irish pubs in Thailand

[bobbin]

Maybe someone can buy them and then close them down and do something to end this plague of English/Irish pubs in Thailand

First we have to do something about the hordes of Brits flooding into Thailand, as they are the customer base!

Between the pensioned-off "brickies" and the yobs who still manage to travel despite being on Probation, they are doing their best to create "jolly ol' East"

I used to be a big fan of English accents. After arriving here 5 years ago, and since hearing about 15 different English accents, most of which are almost unintelligible, I realized I was a big fan of BBC newscasters accents!

[YoungFarangNa]

stickman says he is considering purchasing them.

[Prakanong]

stickman says he is considering purchasing them.

Yeah right - I think he was jesting with his readers

He is becoming more like Trink by the weeks though - notice the use of the word "Suds" to refer to beer Who the F%^& uses that except the senile old git Trink

Stick will be seen soon bumming his drinks around the plaza with a very large owl medallion soon

[rgs2001uk]

Maybe someone can buy them and then close them down and do something to end this plague of English/Irish pubs in Thailand

personally i for one am thankfull for them, at least i know which ones to avoid, who knows where the patrons of these fine watering holes may end up, should they ever close, thankfully there are alternatives.

[jonniebkk]

Maybe someone can buy them and then close them down and do something to end this plague of English/Irish pubs in Thailand

personally i for one am thankfull for them, at least i know which ones to avoid, who knows where the patrons of these fine watering holes may end up, should they ever close, thankfully there are alternatives.

good point...i hadn't thought of that. i guess they are the only ones who enjoy eating the tasteless overprices food you find in most of these places...and they can watch their silly football, rugby, or cricket matches and pretend they are in jolly ole england again!!! why don't they get a life

[jonniebkk]

Maybe someone can buy them and then close them down and do something to end this plague of English/Irish pubs in Thailand

First we have to do something about the hordes of Brits flooding into Thailand, as they are the customer base!

Between the pensioned-off "brickies" and the yobs who still manage to travel despite being on Probation, they are doing their best to create "jolly ol' East"

I used to be a big fan of English accents. After arriving here 5 years ago, and since hearing about 15 different English accents, most of which are almost unintelligible, I realized I was a big fan of BBC newscasters accents!

And to think, I used to think England was the land of the Bellamys and Hudson...boy was I wrong.

[mrtoad]

Maybe someone can buy them and then close them down and do something to end this plague of English/Irish pubs in Thailand

personally i for one am thankfull for them, at least i know which ones to avoid, who knows where the patrons of these fine watering holes may end up, should they ever close, thankfully there are alternatives.

good point...i hadn't thought of that. i guess they are the only ones who enjoy eating the tasteless overprices food you find in most of these places...and they can watch their silly football, rugby, or cricket matches and pretend they are in jolly ole england again!!! why don't they get a life

It's normally capatalised.

England bashing is really quite droll, and as not everyone from the UK is English these type of generalisations are somewhat inaccurate. I think that you will find that those bars are frequented with quite a mixture of nationalaties. However, as you clearly don't have a life you wouldn't know this.

Back to the topic, 175 mil for these bars is way over the top. Granted they are in good locations, but I don't think they are the busiest of places outside of promotion times and sporting events.

[rgs2001uk]

Maybe someone can buy them and then close them down and do something to end this plague of English/Irish pubs in Thailand

personally i for one am thankfull for them, at least i know which ones to avoid, who knows where the patrons of these fine watering holes may end up, should they ever close, thankfully there are alternatives.

good point...i hadn't thought of that. i guess they are the only ones who enjoy eating the tasteless overprices food you find in most of these places...and they can watch their silly football, rugby, or cricket matches and pretend they are in jolly ole england again!!! why don't they get a life

It's normally capatalised.

England bashing is really quite droll, and as not everyone from the UK is English these type of generalisations are somewhat inaccurate. I think that you will find that those bars are frequented with quite a mixture of nationalaties. However, as you clearly don't have a life you wouldn't know this.

Back to the topic, 175 mil for these bars is way over the top. Granted they are in good locations, but I don't think they are the busiest of places outside of promotion times and sporting events.

do you mean convienent for transport locations?, personally i think its the location thats killing two of them, the rents that are being paid, but who can blame the landlords , as long as someone buys into the dream the asking prices will be paid, thats one of the reasons they are not the busiest, better value elsewhere.

as for the third, 600,000 baht a month rent, jeez do the maths, thats 20,000 baht a day just in rent, never mind the other overheads, thats 200 drinks at 100 baht profit just to pay the rent.

as for me its not the nationality but the mentality the keeps me out, and as for getting a life there are alternatives, try lad praw, ratchada etc, however thankfully most of the patrons of at least 2 of these places are in the main tourists, so their lack of thai language skills keeps them away from the places i go.

maybe its you who needs to get a life out of the ghetto, they say travel broadens the mind.

[norrona]

all the English flamers....not like theres no other scumbags that frequent Thailand the irony is immense

Edited October 31, 2007 by norrona

[mrtoad]

Maybe someone can buy them and then close them down and do something to end this plague of English/Irish pubs in Thailand

personally i for one am thankfull for them, at least i know which ones to avoid, who knows where the patrons of these fine watering holes may end up, should they ever close, thankfully there are alternatives.

good point...i hadn't thought of that. i guess they are the only ones who enjoy eating the tasteless overprices food you find in most of these places...and they can watch their silly football, rugby, or cricket matches and pretend they are in jolly ole england again!!! why don't they get a life

It's normally capatalised.

England bashing is really quite droll, and as not everyone from the UK is English these type of generalisations are somewhat inaccurate. I think that you will find that those bars are frequented with quite a mixture of nationalaties. However, as you clearly don't have a life you wouldn't know this.

Back to the topic, 175 mil for these bars is way over the top. Granted they are in good locations, but I don't think they are the busiest of places outside of promotion times and sporting events.

do you mean convienent for transport locations?, personally i think its the location thats killing two of them, the rents that are being paid, but who can blame the landlords , as long as someone buys into the dream the asking prices will be paid, thats one of the reasons they are not the busiest, better value elsewhere.

as for the third, 600,000 baht a month rent, jeez do the maths, thats 20,000 baht a day just in rent, never mind the other overheads, thats 200 drinks at 100 baht profit just to pay the rent.

as for me its not the nationality but the mentality the keeps me out, and as for getting a life there are alternatives, try lad praw, ratchada etc, however thankfully most of the patrons of at least 2 of these places are in the main tourists, so their lack of thai language skills keeps them away from the places i go.

maybe its you who needs to get a life out of the ghetto, they say travel broadens the mind.

No, you have just proved what I mean. Cheers, mate. I use all of the places that you have mentioned. I'm just not so blinkered to use bashing a nationality to bash a place that you don't like, or a nationality. As for biz sense, of course the location is expensive, but I wouldn't imagine it's killing them, unless you have had a look at the books. Any person with common sense will do due dilligence on the books before purchasing.

Thanks, though my life is cool, I don't live in a ghetto (Phahonyothin) and I don't need to spew bile to make myself feel good. BTW I also speak enough Thai to go the places that you mention, which I do more so than the place that this thread is about. I just like to have a little balance in life.

BTW, anyone looking to buy them at these prices are hardly going to be buying into a dream , they are going to be serious people looking to make a profit.

Edited October 31, 2007 by mrtoad

[rgs2001uk]

mr toad

sorry i didnt realize you were so sensitive, but i didnt bash any nationality, perhaps you have me confused with someone else, and i certainly dont need to spew bile to make myself feel good.

i also wasnt referring to where you live, i was referring to the lower sukhumvit area as a ghetto, and the type of clientele the area attracts, i for one as open minded as i am dont wish to sit in a bar and listen to a constant stream of <deleted> and blinding all night, thats why i choose somewhere a bit more upmarket, the places i frequent are priced to keep these sort of people out.

i dont really care for any of the places mentioned, and not because of nationalities, i didnt come half way round the world to drink in a wetherspoons.

lets see if these places are still around in another 5 years, the market will decide not me.

i agree with your point of making a profit, call me cynical, but if these places are so profitable why are they for sale?

as for not having a life, well thats a matter of opinion, last night i was surrounded by many different nationalities, never once was there a raised voice or language more suited to the football terraces in use.

i wish you well with your thai language studies, as you know it provides you with better options, i would buy you a drink and wish you well, dont take it personally, i dont, but sometimes the behaviour of fellow countrymen leaves a lot to be desired.

[mrtoad]

mr toad

sorry i didnt realize you were so sensitive, but i didnt bash any nationality, perhaps you have me confused with someone else, and i certainly dont need to spew bile to make myself feel good.

i also wasnt referring to where you live, i was referring to the lower sukhumvit area as a ghetto, and the type of clientele the area attracts, i for one as open minded as i am dont wish to sit in a bar and listen to a constant stream of <deleted> and blinding all night, thats why i choose somewhere a bit more upmarket, the places i frequent are priced to keep these sort of people out.

i dont really care for any of the places mentioned, and not because of nationalities, i didnt come half way round the world to drink in a wetherspoons.

lets see if these places are still around in another 5 years, the market will decide not me.

i agree with your point of making a profit, call me cynical, but if these places are so profitable why are they for sale?

as for not having a life, well thats a matter of opinion, last night i was surrounded by many different nationalities, never once was there a raised voice or language more suited to the football terraces in use.

i wish you well with your thai language studies, as you know it provides you with better options, i would buy you a drink and wish you well, dont take it personally, i dont, but sometimes the behaviour of fellow countrymen leaves a lot to be desired.

Don't worry rgs, , I'm not a sensitive person at all. I just get fed up with people having a bash at the English. Btw, I'm not English.

Anyhow, I'm sure that we'd more than enjoy having a beer, and I totally agree that some of the behaviour of some people from old blighty has a lot to be desired.

[DaffyDuck]

It's normally capatalised.

England bashing is really quite droll, and as not everyone from the UK is English these type of generalisations are somewhat inaccurate.

Unless he's talking about Australians, in which case he'd be spot on. ;-)

Btw, I'm not English.

Seems, based on your spelling, that you might be from the USA... :-)

[onethailand]

Seems, based on your spelling, that you might be from the USA... :-)

Not if he spells capitalisation with an s, and behaviour with a u.

[percy2]

i agree with your point of making a profit, call me cynical, but if these places are so profitable why are they for sale?

Its not unheard of for people to buy/develop a company , run it in profit for a while and the sell it on making a killing.

Counting money is easier than pulling pints

Cheers

[Moonfruit]

It started as a great thread, and disappeared into nothingness.

Congratulations.

IMHO, after buying and selling multiple (selling profitable and buying non-profitable) businesses both here and elsewhere, i would say that the price tag is way unrealistic, but i dont use mathematics too much to figure prices.

Prices to me can only come through plenty of research, and the company accounts almost never come into it.