Tourist Visa

[twix38]

I am off to Thailand in November and my girlfriend and I plan to apply for a tourist visa in December and also to get engaged.

We have known each other for over 1 1/2 years and have everything we need except the proof that she will return to Thailand. She has no savings. In order to visit me she will quit work.

How do we make the embassy believe she will return to Thailand?

No employer is going to allow her 3 months+off work and so she must quit. We are genuie and before marriage I want to have time together and for her to meet my family etc.

Infact she would rather I stayed in Thailand, but I have a good job and when we marry it is much more sensible for us to relocate to Engalnd where I can work and support us etc,

Should we apply for Tourist visa before I arrive or when we are together in Thailand in December. We will probably have to wait for an interview.

[the scouser]

Hi Twix,

I'm making the assumption that you're talking about a visa for the UK.

Your girlfriend can make a postal application now and request that she be given an interview date in December.

There follow the criteria which a visa officer must use when determining someone's application for a visit visa:-

"10.2 - Requirements for a visitor under the Rules

The requirements to be met by a person seeking entry clearance as a visitor are that she/he:

(a)

is genuinely seek entry as a visitor for a limited period as stated by him/her, not exceeding six months; and

(

intends to leave the UK at the end of the period of the visit as stated by him/her; and

©

does not intend to take employment in the UK; and

(d)

does not intend to produce goods or provide services (including the selling of goods or services direct to members of the public) within the United Kingdom; and

(e)

does not intend to study at a maintained school* and

(f)

will maintain and accommodate him/herself and any dependants adequately, (see subparagraph (vi) of rule 41); and

(g)

can meet the cost of the return or onward journey."

As you can see ( is the one that's difficult to satisfy. Normally it is judged by the applicant's ties to their country; i.e. money, job, land ownership etc. From the brief description of her circumstances that you've given the visa officer is unlikely to issue the visa. By your own admission your g/f will have given up her job and you will by then be engaged. The visa officer is likely to conclude that you will marry and settle in the UK thereby obviating the need to obtain a settlement visa. You may wish to think about obtaining a fiancée visa for your g/f which is more expensive (£260.00) but is more likely to be issued. This would give her 6 months in the UK during which time you could marry and she could legitimately apply for settlement without leaving the UK or, if things didn't work out, she could just return to Thailand before the 6 months were up.

If you still wish to apply for the visit visa then you g/f is going to have to show that she has both emotional and economic ties to Thailand and the 2 of you are going to have to consider what these may be. Many applicants lie to the visa officers and some get away with it whilst others don't. Should your g/f choose to misrepresent herself to the visa officer make sure it's watertight.

Scouse.

Scouse.

[twix38]

Thanks, (yes for UK)

I do have a few questions if you can help

To make a postal application, does she have to go to Embassy in Bangkok with all paperwork to book interview? or can we contact them by post or email without needing any paperwork now and book the interview date? Do you have contact/postal details?

If we apply for tourist and fail can we immediatley transfer to a Fiancee visa?

What is difference in our stay in England if we want to use either visa type on the basis of a tourist visit (i.e we may or may not get married whilst in UK)

I want to be with my GF before we are under the ticking clock to arrange our marriage, but if the Fiancee visa can be used without getting married and then we marry later in the year in Thailand, after 6 months together in England, that sounds fine. Would the only difference be that it just costs more?

We are genuine, but sounds like we have to go through the hoops to be able to spend time together without me quitting work.

We may well get married on the Fiancee visa in England, but the thought of starting marriage arrangements/booking-it-up just 2 months or so after we are able to spend any decent time together seems a bit hasty. I would never consider it in normal circumstances, as we have only had a few weeks together at any one time over the last 2 years, totaling about 3 months

Thanks

[the scouser]

Hi Twix,

I'm sorry if this reply sounds a little terse, but I was half way through replying to you, pressed the wrong key and the whole lot disappeared. So start again.

In order to make a postal application to the embassy download the appropriate form from here and complete it. Send it to your g/f with a letter addressed to the visa section of the embassy requesting that should an interview be required it be in December when you will be in Thailand (give the dates). Also send as much supporting documentation as you can muster although this is not too important as it can be submitted when your g/f is interviewed. Do not send any valuable papers but rather have copies notarised. Your g/f should then sign the application form and enclose 2 passport photos and send the whole lot off to:-

British Embassy

1031 Wireless Road

Lumpini, Pathumwan

Bangkok 10330

The embassy should then write back to your g/f with a date and time for interview hopefully when you want it and you can submit her passport and pay for the application on the day.

If your g/f were to apply for a tourist visa and was not to get it there is nothing prohibiting her from immediately applying for a settlement visa as your fiancée. However, you would have to pay another fee and your g/f would be provided with another interview date. Furthermore, the visa officer MAY draw an adverse inference from the fact that one minute your g/f said she was going to the UK on holiday and the next she's saying she wants to marry and settle there.

The conditions attached to a tourist visa and a fiancé visa are almost identical. Both are for 6 months and prohibit employment. However, a fiancé visa entitles the holder to marry in the UK AND apply for settlement without having to leave the UK. A tourist visa does not prohibit an individual from marrying in the UK but they are still expected to leave at the end of their holiday.

Should your girlfriend wish to apply for a fiancé visa rather than go through the hoops of seeking a tourist visa, then she must not say so to the visa officer. When interviewed she would have to present herself as intending to get married whilst in the UK. Should you get this visa and not marry whilst in the UK but do so in Thailand at a later date no lasting harm is done because your g/f can then apply for another settlement visa on the basis of now being married to you and explain that having previously arrived in the UK the 2 of you decided it would be more fun to marry in Thailand.

Hope that makes sense,

Scouse.

[Richard W]

Should we apply for Tourist visa before I arrive or when we are together in Thailand in December. We will probably have to wait for an interview.

Start work on a fiancee visa application *NOW*. Check the waiting times at the embassy site, but expect a 3 month wait from application to interview. A fiancee visa gives you six months in which to marry or for her to go home. Does anyone know if an interview date offered by post can be deferred so that the couple can go together?

I think visitors who marry in the UK now have to apply for settlement from abroad.

[twix38]

Thanks so much Scouse

Is it right that a tourist visa wait for interview is about 4 to 6 weeks and the wait for Fiancee visa is as long as 3 months!!

All things considered from the info it does sound like the Fiance visa is the best option and to apply with intention to marry, then we either do or we don't marry in UK, but no differnece or penalty except ONLY higher cost for Fiancee visa. Have I understood correctly and is this also what you would advise as best option on balance??

I was planning for us to apply in late November for Tourist visa (now possibly for Fiancee visa instead)as I will be in Thailand from 20th November until January 7th, so we could apply in y first week and get visa interview while I was still in Thailand (although not if there is a 3 month wait??). I will not be ready for gf to arrive in UK until Feb/march 2005.

Any change in what is required for Fiancee visa? Just a different form?

How will all the timings work out and when is best date to first visit embassy and apply, please? perhaps with a 3 month wait applying in December will be about right for gf to come to England in Feb/March?

It is Chicken and Egg, as prefer a tourist visa, but expect may be refused, so go for 2nd choice first?

[the scouser]

Currently that is the waiting time.

Scouse.

[twix38]

Scouse,

Could you advise a little more, please as I have added to my original post.

I am very gratefull for your advice

Thanks

[the scouser]

Hi Twix,

There follow the rules you need to satisfy in order to qualify for a fiancé visa:-

"13.4 - Fiancé(e)s and how they qualify (Rules paragraphs 290 -295)

For an applicant to qualify for admission as a fiancé(e), you must be satisfied that:

the sponsor is present and settled in the United Kingdom, or is to be admitted for settlement at the same time as the applicant arrives in the UK;

the sponsor is aged 18 or over and the applicant is aged 16 or over;

each of the parties intends to live permanently with the other as his or her spouse after the marriage;

the parties to the proposed marriage have met;

adequate maintenance and accommodation without recourse to public funds will be available for the applicant until the date of the marriage;

after the marriage there will be adequate accommodation for the parties and any dependants without recourse to public funds in accommodation which they own or occupy exclusively;

after the marriage the parties will be able to maintain themselves and their dependants adequately without recourse to public funds.

You should also be satisfied that there is no impediment to the proposed marriage." End of rules.

Without knowing the exact in-and-outs of your g/f's circumstances I am loathe to advise one course or another. However, on the basis of what you've written in this thread I would think it unlikely that your g/f would get the tourist visa although stranger things have happened. The fiancé visa gives you 6 months in which to decide what you want to do. But, in applying for the fiancé visa you are telling the visa officer that you are going to marry within the 6 months. Under no circumstances should the visa officer be told that your g/f is only applying for the fiancé visa because it's felt that she wouldn't get a visit visa.

In terms of timing, there's no harm in applying now and requesting an interview for a date when you will be in Thailand. When your g/f then gets the visa she can ask for it to be postdated for up to 3 months; e.g. she gets the visa in December and she can ask for its validity to start in February.

Hope that helps,

Scouse.

[twix38]

Thanks,

I emailed embassy on tourist visa and was told 3 month forward dating for issue of tourist visa was totally up to officer at time of application. Assume same slightly uncertain rule for Fiancee visa. i.e at their discretion

Is the extra 2 months due to more complex nature of Fiancee visa? Do you know why the difference between tourist and Fiancee interview waiting times?

Assuming a 3 month waiting time for Fiancee interview and we first apply when I am there in late November, then my GF should have interview by Feb 05 and all the timings should be fine. I mention this as it sounds ideal. I can go with her to apply and the timings would mean that she is granted and arrives on schedule in Feb/March 05.

Would this straight forward approach work ok or can you see a problem? We can still request to commence from Feb/March 05 if needbe at the time anyway.

I am just thinking aloud and checking that my thoughts work and have no unforseen hidden pitfalls, please?

Thanks

[the scouser]

Hi Twix,

The reason why there is a longer waiting time for settlement applications (fiancé or marriage visas) is because more time is alloted to these than visit interviews. Consequently less can be done in a day. Also it depends how many applications there are. The less there are the smaller the backlog.

I can see no problems with your plan to lodge your g/f's application at the end of November. As you say, she should then have an interview by the end of February. I've just checked on the embassy website and the waiting time for settlement interviews is still 12 weeks.

Just as an aside, the embassy are con artists too. A settlement visa costs £260.00 but has to be paid in local currency and the embassy sets their own exchange rate. When I was last there they'd set a rate of 75 baht to the pound when the banks were offering 70. As a result a settlement visa cost 19500 baht instead of 18200 baht.

Best of luck,

Scouse.

[penelope]

Just as an aside, the embassy are con artists too. A settlement visa costs £260.00 but has to be paid in local currency and the embassy sets their own exchange rate. When I was last there they'd set a rate of 75 baht to the pound when the banks were offering 70. As a result a settlement visa cost 19500 baht instead of 18200 baht.

Most embassies "hedge" foreign currency. It is a way to protect their loss position.

[twix38]

For Fiancee visa I note that birth certificates are required.

Is a copy fine, as I am not keen to take my original birth cert with me to Thailand. However, I would if a copy will not be acceptable.

Any other advice, tips, suggestions or caution on applying and using a Fiancee visa. What is the crucial issue and question to ensure we get a positive result?

Thanks

[the scouser]

For Fiancee visa I note that birth certificates are required.

Hi Twix,

That's a new one on me. As far as I am aware you are able to just show your passport which, after all, is issued on the basis of your birth certificate. If your fiancée has any children by a previous relationship then the embassy will need to see their birth certificates but that is all. The embassy ask to see the children's birth certs because they then have a record should you apply in the future to take the kids to the UK.

I am aware that your fiancée is getting the visa potentially in lieu of a tourist one. However, she will need to present herself in interview as intending to marry and settle in the UK. She should say, when asked, that a date for the nuptials will be set upon arriving in the UK and that, in all likelihood, they will occur within 3 months of arrival. The crucial issue is the criterion of the rules that stipulates the visa officer must be satisfied that the 2 parties intend to permanently live together after the marriage, as this cannot be proven. All of the other criteria are easily satisfied by the provision of evidence. In order to attempt to satisfy this requirement you should provide as much proof of your relationship as possible and hope that your fiancée interviews well. She will be expected to have a good knowledge of you, your circumstances and your family. If there are either any inconsistencies or contradictions in her account then the visa officer will pick up on this and deduce that you don't, therefore, intend to permanently live together. Lastly, your fiancée should not volunteer any information to the visa officer but respond only to his questions. If he asks, "Does Twix have any hobbies?" she should say only, "Yes." (or no, as the case may be) and wait for the visa officer to say, "Well, what does he like doing?". In terms of immigration law there is no duty of candour; i.e. it's up to the visa officer to dig out the salient facts by asking the right questions rather than expect the applicant to tell him. If you get a visa officer who is not a good interviewer then he won't garner enough information to refuse the application.

Any further questions I'm willing to assist.

Scouse.

[twix38]

Hello Scouse. Thanks for all your help to date.

I have been talking with my gf (email and phone) and we have decided to go for Fiancee visa and actually intend to get married whilst in UK having got engaged in Thailand on my visit. All this talking has crystalised that we plan to marry, so we should use Fiancee visa as intended and get married.

So, that leaves me with only one question. We will go to embassy around early December, knowing my gf intends to depart for UK to join me about 3 months later in Feb/March 2005. I can take all my paperwork and leave it all with her as I leave Thailand on 7th Jan 2005. Could you please detail exactly what documents I should leave with her and what must be original documents and what can be copies? It would be a bit late when I am in England and she is having interview to find I have missed something important or that a copy is not good enough.

I am preparing a file of documentation and want to be accurate and comprehensive.

Many thanks

[the scouser]

Hi Twix,

There follows a list of the paperwork that should be supplied to the visa officer:-

1. Bank statements for the last 6 months;

2. Wage slips for the last 4-6 months. If you are self-employed then your accounts for the last 2 years;

3. Proof of accommodation.

i) If you are buying your house then a letter from the lender confirming this and stating how many bedrooms the property has.

ii) If you own it outright then a submit the deeds.

iii) If you are renting then your tenancy agreement which should have 6 months to run.

iv) If you live with friends/family then a letter from the owner stating that he/she is happy for you and your g/f to stay and that you have exclusive use of 1 bedroom;

4. Evidence of your relationship with your fiancée; e.g. photos, letters, e-mails, greetings cards, phone bills or phone cards;

5. A copy of your passport including the stamps showing your entries in to Thailand.

6. If either of you have been married before then a divorce certificate must be supplied. If in Thai it should be translated in to English and;

7. If your fiancée has any children their birth certificates will be needed (even if they are not accompanying her to the UK).

That's about it. You should also write a covering letter briefly outling your relationship together, your intentions and your circumstances in the UK. As far as possible all of the documents should be originals. If you do not wish to take the risk of losing valuable ones then have copies notarised by a solicitor as being genuine. Because of the 12 week delay between making the application and your fiancée's interview it is possible (but unlikely) that the visa officer will refuse the application as the supporting paperwork is, by then, outdated. In order to counteract this possiblity you may wish to send her up-to-date bank statements and wage slips a couple of weeks before the interview.

Best of luck,

Scouse.

[twix38]

Can you advise me in application for Fiancee visa.

When we visit Embassy.

At what time to get in queue and be seen that same morning, please?

Although my girlfriend will not have interview until about 3 months later, do we need to take all the paperwork on the first visit when we apply for Fiancee visa? i.e. do we arrive for first time and hand over all the paperwork or do we keep it all until the interview about 3 months later?

What to take to first visit and what to take to interview about 3 months later?

Thanks

[twix38]

Hello Scouser,

Are you able to advise on the current waiting time for Fiancee Interviews? I looked on the British embassy site "further information on visa", but now it is all in Thai and I cannot see where or how to change it to English?

Answers to my above post would also be welcome.

Thank you very much for all your help

Martin

[the scouser]

Hi Twix,

It appears as though the embassy has stopped displaying waiting times on its website. However, check out the UK Visas site. As of 31/7/04 it gives a waiting time of 10 weeks.

It is advisable to take all of the supporting documentation when the application is lodged. Anything valuable you can ask that they take a copy and the original be returned. However, because your fiancée will not be interviewed for some time after the application is made I would advise taking more up to date bank statements, wage slips, etc. on the date of the interview. The last thing you want is for the visa officer to refuse the application because your bank statements are 3 months old.

I believe that the visa section is seeing in person the first 75 applicants per day. It is not really possible to say what time you and your fiancée should start queuing as I've heard stories of people arriving there at 03:00 in order to ensure they are seen. If the procedure is still the same you will file through a narrow ante-room where an admin member of staff will check that the form is properly completed. As your fiancée will require an interview you will then be told to go straight to the cashier who will take the fee, the application and the supporting documents. They will then write a letter to your fiancée giving her a date and time for interview, stating whether any additional paperwork is required.

Perhaps give the embassy a bell in order to find out the current waiting time and how many people they are letting through the door of a morning.

Scouse.

[twix38]

Excellent and prompt advice as usual.

I will be in BKK when we apply, but not when she gets her interview.

Do you know if it matters if just my Fiancee goes to apply at the Embassy with the paperwork or if it is better that we both go. Does it matter?

Thanks very much

[the scouser]

It has no bearing upon the application if you do not accompany your fiancée but she might like a bit of hand holding.

Scouse.

[twix38]

Thanks Scouser

I agree. I had expected to go, but she said she is ok to go alone. (she wants to)

She does not want me to have to get up early. I am more than happy to accompany her and would expect and even prefer to. Can't think of another reason other than the one she gives. Just in case, can you, please?

Further question on Fiancee visa.

My Mum can write a letter inviting my girlfriend to live with us in the Family home and then, when we are married I will have arranged to rent/buy a house and move out. Or we can just tell Embassy that I will rent accomodation when I return to UK in readiness for my girlfriend to arrive some month or 2 later. Either is possible. What would be the best idea? Is there generally a "best option" regarding what to do about accomodation in UK. I do not own a property.

[twix38]

Hi Scouser,

If you have info (as above) on best advice regarding accomodation option in UK, to suit Embassy, as I can do either. 1) we live at my Mum's home and she can invite gf to stay with us or 2) I rent somewhere just before gf due to arrive in UK 3) OR any other suggestions.

Please see my post above.

Many thanks for your continued help

[the scouser]

Hi Twix,

There's no particular best (or worst) option concerning accommodation. You just have to satisfy the visa officer that you have sufficient to put a roof over your fiancée's head.

The immigration rules say that it has to be accommodation that you occupy exclusively. This was legally tested a few years back and the court ruled that to have one room that is solely for your and your fiancée's use is all that is needed to satisfy that requirement.

If you choose to live with your mother and she owns her own house then get her to write a letter saying how many people currently live in the house, how many bedrooms it has, and that she is content for you and your fiancée to live there for as long as you want. If she rents the house then get a letter along the same lines from the landlord. If you decide to rent a house for you and your fiancée to live in then you will need to show the tenancy agreement to the visa officer and they will expect to see that the lease has at least 6 months left to run.

An example of a letter your mother could write is:

" Dear ECO,

I am writing in support of the visa application of my son's fiancée (insert name) who has applied to settle in the U.K.

I am content for my son (insert name) and his wife-to-be to stay at my house for as long as is necessary. I am the owner/mortgagee (whichever is appropriate) of the property which has X bedrooms. Only (insert number) bedroom(s) is/are currently occupied so my son and prospective daughter-in-law will have the exclusive use of one bedroom for themselves.

If you need any further assistance then please contact me on +44 1234 123456."

Hope that helps,

Scouse.