What Is A Good Salary In Bangkok?

[wtpmjgda1]

First, I would like to commend everyone associated with this forum. What a smart group of people you all are. I have already learned so much by lurking.

Now that I am registered, here is my situation and questions.

Situation

I am in negotiation with a U.K. company based in Bangkok. I am a U.S. citizen with a moderately specialized skill not found in Asia. The company is offering me a wage similar to what I would receive in the U.S. For discussion purposes, let's say it is $75,000 per year. I am married to a U.S. citizen with one child. To accept the position, we must move to Thailand.

My questions center on how to evaluate this offer. Also, I would like to know what top two or three issues to avoid and how to avoid them.

My wife and my objectives in accepting this job are:

1. To at least maintain our standard of living

2. Purchase a home (no land ownership is OK) or at lease a condo (<5 M baht)

3. Place our daughter in an IB, U.K based middle school (<180,000 baht per year)

4. Save 400,000 baht per year

Questions

Can we get a loan outside of Thailand for a property?

Should we asked to be paid in baht or $U.S.?

What is the income tax rate?

How much should we expect to pay for a 3 br 2 bath house easily accessible to downtown?

How about a 3 br 2 bath condo near a BTS?

Does anyone know a good real estate agent they can recommend?

If we sell a property in the future, what are the Thailand tax ramifications of moving the profits out of the country?

Are there any reasonably priced IB based middle schools (not $12,000 U.S. per year?

If my employment is terminated unexpectantly, how is the job market for an ex-pat (BS Computer Science, MBA, 15 years if experience)?

Sorry, this is a lot of questions.

Thanks in advance for what ever you can answer.

[Indo-Siam]

1. Can we get a loan outside of Thailand for a property?

A: Lender outside Thailand will not be able to recover property as collateral, so you are probably talking about an unsecured loan. More likely that an in-country real estate specialist can arrange a low-interest loan secured by the property.

2. Should we asked to be paid in baht or $U.S.?

A: Personal opinion only - take the salary in US Dollars. Have bulk of it paid to US account if you can, with only qualifying amount for long-term entry permit paid in Thailand. You will have total exemption from US taxes on combined amount less than US $80,000 or so,and pay only thai taxes on the part paid in Thai baht, inside Thailand.

3. What is the income tax rate?

A: See Thai tax rates at: http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6000.0.html

4. How much should we expect to pay for a 3 br 2 bath house easily accessible to downtown? How about a 3 br 2 bath condo near a BTS?

A: Prices are all over the place. You can get a top-of-the-line, deluxe, fully-furnished place for US$3,000 per month - and you can work this down to US $1,000 per month, with compromises.

5. Does anyone know a good real estate agent they can recommend?

A: I suggest checking with British chap who is a principal at http://www.ppsproperty.com

6. If we sell a property in the future, what are the Thailand tax ramifications of moving the profits out of the country?

A: Not really an issue if you are here when you sell. Harder if you sell from outside Thailand. Talk to the real estate guy. Be aware - there is a massive oversupply of expat-type housing being built right now in downtown Bangkok - mostly condos. It is going to be REALLY HARD to sell residential properyty here at a profit, for the next 3-8 (?) years.

7. Are there any reasonably priced IB based middle schools (not $12,000 U.S. per year?

A: There are schools available at almost every price tier. Top school such as NIST is 500,000 baht per year. At 12,000 baht per month, you will probably not be able to get your child into even a middle of the pack school. But based on your stated income, and other goals, I do not see why you cannot afford 30-40,000 baht per month. Other than housing and education, most other costs here are trivial. One other thing - factor in transportation to take your child to school each day - mini-school buses. Trip each way can be 60 minutes. Transportation alone can run 6-8,000 baht per month (depending on location of your home, and that of school).

8. If my employment is terminated unexpectantly, how is the job market for an ex-pat (BS Computer Science, MBA, 15 years if experience)?

A. If you are terminated, and must obtain employment here from unemployed status, you will be lucky to get a position at 40% of your multi-national income.

Good luck!

Steve Sykes

Managing Director

Indo-Siam Group

Bangkok

[email protected]

www.thaicompradore.com

[Khun Larry]

I would recommend you not do the following:

1. Buy a house in Thailand or any other investment for 5 years.

2. Move to thailand with a family.

Also, if you employment is terminated, you will be lucky to find a job for $1,000 a month. You read that right, $1,000 a month.

Good luck

[thaihome]

I would recommend you not do the following:

.....

2. Move to thailand with a family.

......

Interesting comment. Why would you recommend that some one not bring their family to Thailand?

There are many, many expats that are working in Thailand, accompanied by their non-Thai families. Everyone I know is pretty happy here.

TH

[MadFrankie]

I would recommend you not do the following:

1. Buy a house in Thailand or any other investment for 5 years.

2. Move to thailand with a family.

Also, if you employment is terminated, you will be lucky to find a job for $1,000 a month. You read that right, $1,000 a month.

Good luck

I think i'd call it ignorant rather than interesting

[wtpmjgda1]

I would recommend you not do the following:

1. Buy a house in Thailand or any other investment for 5 years.

2. Move to thailand with a family.

Also, if you employment is terminated, you will be lucky to find a job for $1,000 a month. You read that right, $1,000 a month.

Good luck

Khun Larry,

I appreciate your take on the situation.

Could you add detail to your reservations. I can find work in the U.S. at a similar wage. Are the risks not worth moving my family to Thailand? It seems to be a safe city. Am I missing something? Is the cost of living or quality of life the issue?

[penelope]

First, I would like to commend everyone associated with this forum. What a smart group of people you all are. I have already learned so much by lurking.

Now that I am registered, here is my situation and questions.

Situation

I am in negotiation with a U.K. company based in Bangkok. I am a U.S. citizen with a moderately specialized skill not found in Asia. The company is offering me a wage similar to what I would receive in the U.S. For discussion purposes, let's say it is $75,000 per year. I am married to a U.S. citizen with one child. To accept the position, we must move to Thailand.

My questions center on how to evaluate this offer. Also, I would like to know what top two or three issues to avoid and how to avoid them.

My wife and my objectives in accepting this job are:

1. To at least maintain our standard of living

2. Purchase a home (no land ownership is OK) or at lease a condo (<5 M baht)

3. Place our daughter in an IB, U.K based middle school (<180,000 baht per year)

4. Save 400,000 baht per year

Questions

Can we get a loan outside of Thailand for a property?

Should we asked to be paid in baht or $U.S.?

What is the income tax rate?

How much should we expect to pay for a 3 br 2 bath house easily accessible to downtown?

How about a 3 br 2 bath condo near a BTS?

Does anyone know a good real estate agent they can recommend?

If we sell a property in the future, what are the Thailand tax ramifications of moving the profits out of the country?

Are there any reasonably priced IB based middle schools (not $12,000 U.S. per year?

If my employment is terminated unexpectantly, how is the job market for an ex-pat (BS Computer Science, MBA, 15 years if experience)?

Sorry, this is a lot of questions.

Thanks in advance for what ever you can answer.

For an expat posting(based on personal and colleague experience), I would pitch for a package that includes :

-3 bedroom fully serviced apartment (preferably near to your office), power,phone,water,internet etc..... paid for(usually all packaged at 1 price in the upper end apartments ~ 80K permonth +)

-car + driver

-per diem for daily work related expenses

-recreation provision ie: gym/country club access

-full medical/travel insurance for family

-all travel expenses paid for

-all visas/permits taken care of for you and family

-return travel twice a year for whole family to your homeland

-salary the same as what you would expect in the the West

Can't comment much on the kids/schooling situation cos I haven't been in that boat. Although some senior expats I know have schooling, nannies etc.. provided in their packages too.

[lopburi3]

I would recommend you not do the following:

1. Buy a house in Thailand or any other investment for 5 years.

2. Move to thailand with a family.

Also, if you employment is terminated, you will be lucky to find a job for $1,000 a month. You read that right, $1,000 a month.

Good luck

Khun Larry,

I appreciate your take on the situation.

Could you add detail to your reservations. I can find work in the U.S. at a similar wage. Are the risks not worth moving my family to Thailand? It seems to be a safe city. Am I missing something? Is the cost of living or quality of life the issue?

Larry seems to be taking some flak from others but he has valid points. Do not expect to buy and then sell for a profit like in the US. Owned housing here is something like cars in the US. It takes a huge hit once owned. Other investments are very dangerous as you have no local knowledge; and even with this you almost need inside information.

Expat marriages have not had a good track record here. Divorce among the diplomatic community has always been a subject of discussion (jokes) and that goes back decades. Although it is probably better now for a wife; it is still a mans world here. And many western woman do not adapt well to it.

Good schooling in English is very costly. You can not expect "good" below a handful of top schools.

[PvtDick]

2. Should we asked to be paid in baht or $U.S.?

A: Personal opinion only - take the salary in US Dollars. Have bulk of it paid to US account if you can, with only qualifying amount for long-term entry permit paid in Thailand. You will have total exemption from US taxes on combined amount less than US $80,000 or so,and pay only thai taxes on the part paid in Thai baht, inside Thailand.

Although this is a common enough practice, I think it should be pointed out that it is technically illegal.

[Khun Larry]

I would recommend you not do the following:

1. Buy a house in Thailand or any other investment for 5 years.

2. Move to thailand with a family.

Also, if you employment is terminated, you will be lucky to find a job for $1,000 a month. You read that right, $1,000 a month.

Good luck

I think i'd call it ignorant rather than interesting

Swatdee MadFrankie

"Ignorant" is lacking knowledge, uninformed. Since you do not know me your basis for such a statement is itself without knowledge....

Can you see where this is going??

All in fun of course

Chookdee na

[Khun Larry]

I would recommend you not do the following:

1. Buy a house in Thailand or any other investment for 5 years.

2. Move to thailand with a family.

Also, if you employment is terminated, you will be lucky to find a job for $1,000 a month. You read that right, $1,000 a month.

Good luck

Khun Larry,

I appreciate your take on the situation.

Could you add detail to your reservations. I can find work in the U.S. at a similar wage. Are the risks not worth moving my family to Thailand? It seems to be a safe city. Am I missing something? Is the cost of living or quality of life the issue?

As you can see from some other posts my reservations about moving your family to Thailand are not universally shared. Everyone is different.

My take on your original post is you are unfamiliar with many things in Thailand; loans, buying a house / condo, schooling etc. Especially the possibility of finding a new job in Thailand. If this is not the case, my apologies. Others have addressed many of your specific points.

In my opinion, if your employment is terminated you will take a large financial hit to return home and then find a new job. Government workers locating to Thailand usually do not have the same level of risk of loosing their jobs. So I would require a contract which paid at least 6 months severance and all expenses for your family to return to the States. Also, if the company is very large and will take care of many of these unknowns, I would be less resistant to make the move. If possible, try the job for 6 months before relocating your family.

I think it would be a difficult transition for a family. Especially your wife. How will she occupy her time while you are working? How may Wats can she visit before boredom sets in? Again, my largest reservation is it seemed you familiarity with the "real Thailand," not the travel guide Thailand was limited.

Still thinking about buying a house? Have a look:

http://www.time.com/time/asia/tga/article/...-629437,00.html

"http://www.time.com/time/asia/tga/article/0,13673,501040503-629437,00.html"

Finally, do not expect to have a large circle of Thai friends to socialize with or occupy leisure time. If it happens, consider it a bonus. I may take some flack for saying this but it is should not be overlooked. There are many cultural barriers in Thailand which do not exist in the US.

Chookdee na

[wtpmjgda1]

Finally, do not expect to have a large circle of Thai friends to socialize with or occupy leisure time. If it happens, consider it a bonus. I may take some flack for saying this but it is should not be overlooked. There are many cultural barriers in Thailand which do not exist in the US.

Chookdee na

Khun Larry,

Excellent take. Very informative. Your posts have raised the issues that I originally requested. Thanks.

Let me add to the scenario. My wife is from Southeast Asia, just not from Thailand. Our move would put us close enough to visit, but not too close. I am mid-fourties, she is 30. Technically, I am not a "farang." I am 1/2 African American and 1/2 Hispanic. I don't have many "African" features. I am a cross between Vin Diesel and Denzel Washington. Just a bit smaller than Vin and not a many women consider me a sex symbol.

Care to update your list of issues?

[Thetyim]

"let's say it is $75,000 per year."

"not many women consider me a sex symbol."

Three million a year will definately make you one

[CMguy]

"let's say it is $75,000 per year."

"not many women consider me a sex symbol."

Three million a year will definately make you one

I think you mean he will be seen as an ATM symbol, which is very sexy to many women.

[Khun Larry]

Let me add to the scenario.  My wife is from Southeast Asia, just not from Thailand.  Our move would put us close enough to visit, but not too close.  I am mid-fourties, she is 30. Technically, I am not a "farang."  I am 1/2 African American and 1/2 Hispanic.  I don't have many "African" features.  I am a cross between Vin Diesel and Denzel Washington.  Just a bit smaller than Vin and not a many women consider me a sex symbol.

Care to update your list of issues?

I suspect Vin would do fine, at least with the ladies.

An Asian wife could be an asset in relocating, as would near by family. Your interest in Thailand make more sense to me now.

Chookdee

[MadFrankie]

Could you repeat that definition of ignorant Larry? It seems to have slipped my mind

[wtpmjgda1]

I suspect Vin would do fine, at least with the ladies.

An Asian wife could be an asset in relocating, as would near by family. Your interest in Thailand make more sense to me now.

Chookdee

Coming from you Khun Larry is like being approved as a PR.

Update: I have been told I would be paid in completely Thai Baht. Any issues? From previous post I found that the taxes will be 30%, no better than in the U.S.?

Any advice?

Is it really cheaper to live in Bangkok?

What if we eat like Thai's?

What if I send my daughter to a middle tier school?

What if I mimimize use of lady bars?

[Boon Mee]

I would recommend you not do the following:

.....

2. Move to thailand with a family.

......

Interesting comment. Why would you recommend that some one not bring their family to Thailand?

There are many, many expats that are working in Thailand, accompanied by their non-Thai families. Everyone I know is pretty happy here.

TH

As another respondent has mentioned, marriages do not have a particulary healthy track record when the Farang moves to LOS w/his western wife. It's different all over Asia but for some strange reason, in Thailand they(western marriages) break down more rapidly.

They don't call it "Exotic" Thailand for nothing!

[Totster]

My wife and my objectives in accepting this job are:

My wife is from Southeast Asia,

Am I missing something..... ?

What if I mimimize use of lady bars?

I'd say that isn't a good start...!!

[wtpmjgda1]

It's different all over Asia but for some strange reason, in Thailand they(western marriages) break down more rapidly.

They don't call it "Exotic" Thailand for nothing!

Hi Boon Mee,

Thanks for the warning.

My wife is from the Philippines and is still very Asian. Her familiy is mostly in Cebu. She is just learning to drive here in the States. If she has not been re-culturized yet, what chance do you give us? Would you consider us a "western marriage?"

Maybe it is obvious, but, what is the main cause of divorce?

P.S. She still doesn't check my Internet History or my IM list. AT least, as far as I know.

[Totster]

Maybe it is obvious, but, what is the main cause of divorce?

This probably won't help.....

What if I mimimize use of lady bars?

[Boon Mee]

It's different all over Asia but for some strange reason, in Thailand they(western marriages) break down more rapidly.

They don't call it "Exotic" Thailand for nothing!

Hi Boon Mee,

Thanks for the warning.

My wife is from the Philippines and is still very Asian. Her familiy is mostly in Cebu. She is just learning to drive here in the States. If she has not been re-culturized yet, what chance do you give us? Would you consider us a "western marriage?"

Maybe it is obvious, but, what is the main cause of divorce?

P.S. She still doesn't check my Internet History or my IM list. AT least, as far as I know.

Much better than if your wife was an American. As a Philipina, she's somewhat familiar with the "culture". Yours is not a "western" marriage in the sense she's from southern California for example.

Main cause of divorce is the unreasonable attitude on the part of 1st wives to the addition of girlfriend or "2nd wife" - Mia Noi! It's soooo easy!

[Khun Larry]

Could you repeat that definition of ignorant Larry? It seems to have slipped my mind

OK. Thanks for pointing that out AGAIN.

[MadFrankie]

not a problem

[Ijustwannateach]

I don't see any problem in achieving any of the goals in the OP considering the salary/benefits on offer.

I'm a bit surprised at the question about losing the job- don't jobs in this league come with fairly generous termination clauses (at least a couple months of salary, enough to get back to the "real world"?) If not, and you manage to make it through at least 4 months or so, Thai law will cover you for a bit of severance pay, anyway. If you feel losing your job is a likelihood, then I would NOT move to Thailand. It's hard enough to adjust to life here without losing your job early on.

If you got out of the executive expat "zone" and lived like a middle class Thai, you could save incredible amounts of money- but that's a decision you'd need your family's cooperation on.

"Steven"

[Khun ?]

Make sure you get booze and female rations included. If you don't use it there

will be no problem receiving some cash for someone else to use.

[wtpmjgda1]

If you got out of the executive expat "zone" and lived like a middle class Thai, you could save incredible amounts of money- but that's a decision you'd need your family's cooperation on.

"Steven"

Steven,

Thanks for the Facinating take. As far as "out of the executive expat 'zon'" what do you have in mind?

Name an area.

How long would the commute be?

How about UK or American schools?

What would be the main source of savings?

[penelope]

If you got out of the executive expat "zone" and lived like a middle class Thai, you could save incredible amounts of money

I have to disagree.

Most executive and/or senior expats have pretty much everything provided free as part of the relocation package (transport/travel,apartment,per-diems, schooling/nannying, recreation(sports club,gym),entertainment(dining out with clients etc...),insurance etc....).

Therfore the majority of the earned salary goes straight into savings.

[TypicalAnonym]

Update:  I have been told I would be paid in completely Thai Baht.  Any issues?  From previous post I found that the taxes will be 30%, no better than in the U.S.?

Being paid in baht is a mixed blessing. Obviously, for local expenses, exchange rate fluctuations pose no risk to you. But the other side of this is that if you have any obligations back in the US that you have to pay for out of your salary, you will be exposed to some risk -- if the baht weakens from 39 to 40 baht per dollar, you just took a 2.6% pay cut.

The taxes in Thailand on the level of salary you are talking about may very well be more than what you would pay in the US. When I worked in Thailand my effective tax rate was over 25%; the rate on a similar amount in the US was more like 20% due to ability to file a joint return with my wife (who earned nothing), deductions and exemptions, etc. It's difficult to compare directly (because you would be paying social security and medicare in the US but won't if you're working abroad, etc). You should talk to a CPA about this.

Is it really cheaper to live in Bangkok?

What if we eat like Thai's?

This depends very heavily on your personal situation. If you are footing the bill for periodic returns to the US, or spending 450000 baht per year for an international school that you would not have to pay for at home, etc, etc, then no, it won't be cheaper.

The likelihood of you being able to eat like Thais for significant cost savings is IMO *vanishingly* small. Wanna eat pig innards on the street every night for 25 baht?

What if I send my daughter to a middle tier school?

Think carefully about this. There are so few schools that are truly up to snuff in Thailand that compromise in this area may really be a negative for your child. Then again, I believe there are some hidden gems amongst all the crap that provide quality at a more bargain price. I can't really advise you on this any more than that because I just don't know.

What if I mimimize use of lady bars?

This is a very telling question. IMO you are heading into turbulent waters indeed.

[Ijustwannateach]

If you got out of the executive expat "zone" and lived like a middle class Thai, you could save incredible amounts of money

I have to disagree.

Most executive and/or senior expats have pretty much everything provided free as part of the relocation package (transport/travel,apartment,per-diems, schooling/nannying, recreation(sports club,gym),entertainment(dining out with clients etc...),insurance etc....).

Therfore the majority of the earned salary goes straight into savings.

^This could be true. It's hard to tell without more info from OP.

If your allowances are all fixed (directly paid by employer), then you're stuck where he puts you. If you have discretion on what to do with the funds, though, you could move to a small house in the suburbs (like Bang Kapi), commute in on the highway every day (30-40 min.) and easily save 6 figures a month over the cost of maintaining an expat "estate"- On the other hand, we're talking places where you'll probably have to install your own air conditioning, and any extras you want which aren't already provided at your company would have to be paid for. On the other hand, considering that you could rent a house out there for the same or less than the cost of a small apt. downtown, you can see where the savings come from. Even the shops/restaurants are cheaper- as long as you don't mind buying/eating what middle class Thais do (it IS a different style, but not so bad). It is not QUITE as bad as eating pig innards every day, but certainly takes some adjustment. Depends a lot on if Thai food is for you or not. A Thai-speaking maid/cook salary is only a few thousand a month, but it puts the burden of communication on you.

Schools are one area I wouldn't skimp, no matter where/how you live. You're going to want your children to fit back into some kind of "real world" program eventually, without relying on corruption to get them in. Stick with the private international schools here.

I find your question about ladybars a little strange, too. You have a family but you'll be going to ladybars? That's a good way NOT to save money, and not to keep your family happy, too.

"Steven"