Skeletons

[AjarnP]

good day to all,

I've lost my dictionary of idioms. (well I haven't but whomever borrowed it, may I have it back please!!)

A favour then if you'd be so kind. A Thai translation of "Skeletons in Closets" (or cupboards if you're from UK) not the literal translation but one which gets the meaning of hidden secrets etc.

Many thanks to all

AjarnP

[meadish_sweetball]

FWIW, Oxford River books has only a descriptive explanation, not a matching idiom: มีความลับน่าละอายที่ปกปิดไว้

A regular skeleton (bones) is called a โครงกระดูก

[aanon]

good day to all,

I've lost my dictionary of idioms. (well I haven't but whomever borrowed it, may I have it back please!!)

A favour then if you'd be so kind. A Thai translation of "Skeletons in Closets" (or cupboards if you're from UK) not the literal translation but one which gets the meaning of hidden secrets etc.

Many thanks to all

AjarnP

hey ajarnP,

honestly, i don't know the answer but, after having had a chat with friends, i have a few vaguely related idioms to relate:

ช้างตายทั้งตัว เอาใบบัวปิดไม่มิด

(lit. a whole elephant corpse cannot be covered up by a lotus leaf)

meaning: there's no way to cover up a wrongdoing once others know

วัวสันหลังหวะ

(lit. a cow with a wounded back)

meaning: a person who has done something wrong and is anxious/paranoid about being found out

i must say, i don't quite grasp the logic of the second idiom - anyone able to help?

all the best.

[DavidHouston]

วัวสันหลังหวะ

(lit. a cow with a wounded back)

meaning: a person who has done something wrong and is anxious/paranoid about being found out

i must say, i don't quite grasp the logic of the second idiom - anyone able to help?

all the best.

From the book "บ่อเกิดสำนวนไทย" page 78 comes a double animal metaphor:

___________

วัวสันหลังขาด [หวะ] เห็นกาบินผาดก็ตกใจ

หมายความว่า "คนที่มีความผิดติดตัวทำให้มีความหวาดระแวง"

" . . . วัวที่มีแผลอยู่ที่หลังหรืออยู่กลางหลังนั้นเอง เมื่อวัวมีแผลอยู่ที่หลังเห็นกาบินผ่านก็สะดุ้งระแวงไปว่ากาจะมาจิกกินตรงแผลนั้น เมื่อเป็นสำนวนใช้ในความหมายถึงคนที่มีพิรุธอะไรซ่อนไว้ในใจ มันมีอาการหวาดระแวงไปต่างๆ นานา"

____________

My translation:

As worried as an ox with an open wound on its back when it sees a crow fly by.

This metaphor refers to "a person who has committed an error and is tortured [by the thought that he might be discovered.]"

". . . an ox which has suffered a wound to its back or where the wound is right in the middle of its back. When that ox sees a crow swooping around it trembles with fright, worried that the crow might pick at that wound [and tear its flesh]. When uses as an idiom, the phrase refers to a person who has done something wrong and the fear of discovery is buried deeply in his heart. This person suffers many different kinds of torture."

Seems like a great rural metaphor to me; we would say, "as nervous as a cat in a room full of rocking chairs".

[aanon]

วัวสันหลังหวะ

(lit. a cow with a wounded back)

meaning: a person who has done something wrong and is anxious/paranoid about being found out

i must say, i don't quite grasp the logic of the second idiom - anyone able to help?

all the best.

From the book "บ่อเกิดสำนวนไทย" page 78 comes a double animal metaphor:

___________

วัวสันหลังขาด [หวะ] เห็นกาบินผาดก็ตกใจ

หมายความว่า "คนที่มีความผิดติดตัวทำให้มีความหวาดระแวง"

" . . . วัวที่มีแผลอยู่ที่หลังหรืออยู่กลางหลังนั้นเอง เมื่อวัวมีแผลอยู่ที่หลังเห็นกาบินผ่านก็สะดุ้งระแวงไปว่ากาจะมาจิกกินตรงแผลนั้น เมื่อเป็นสำนวนใช้ในความหมายถึงคนที่มีพิรุธอะไรซ่อนไว้ในใจ มันมีอาการหวาดระแวงไปต่างๆ นานา"

____________

My translation:

As worried as an ox with an open wound on its back when it sees a crow fly by.

This metaphor refers to "a person who has committed an error and is tortured [by the thought that he might be discovered.]"

". . . an ox which has suffered a wound to its back or where the wound is right in the middle of its back. When that ox sees a crow swooping around it trembles with fright, worried that the crow might pick at that wound [and tear its flesh]. When uses as an idiom, the phrase refers to a person who has done something wrong and the fear of discovery is buried deeply in his heart. This person suffers many different kinds of torture."

Seems like a great rural metaphor to me; we would say, "as nervous as a cat in a room full of rocking chairs".

thanks david...the crow completes the picture nicely!

all the best.

[AjarnP]

วัวสันหลังหวะ

(lit. a cow with a wounded back)

meaning: a person who has done something wrong and is anxious/paranoid about being found out

i must say, i don't quite grasp the logic of the second idiom - anyone able to help?

all the best.

From the book "บ่อเกิดสำนวนไทย" page 78 comes a double animal metaphor:

___________

วัวสันหลังขาด [หวะ] เห็นกาบินผาดก็ตกใจ

หมายความว่า "คนที่มีความผิดติดตัวทำให้มีความหวาดระแวง"

" . . . วัวที่มีแผลอยู่ที่หลังหรืออยู่กลางหลังนั้นเอง เมื่อวัวมีแผลอยู่ที่หลังเห็นกาบินผ่านก็สะดุ้งระแวงไปว่ากาจะมาจิกกินตรงแผลนั้น เมื่อเป็นสำนวนใช้ในความหมายถึงคนที่มีพิรุธอะไรซ่อนไว้ในใจ มันมีอาการหวาดระแวงไปต่างๆ นานา"

____________

My translation:

As worried as an ox with an open wound on its back when it sees a crow fly by.

This metaphor refers to "a person who has committed an error and is tortured [by the thought that he might be discovered.]"

". . . an ox which has suffered a wound to its back or where the wound is right in the middle of its back. When that ox sees a crow swooping around it trembles with fright, worried that the crow might pick at that wound [and tear its flesh]. When uses as an idiom, the phrase refers to a person who has done something wrong and the fear of discovery is buried deeply in his heart. This person suffers many different kinds of torture."

Seems like a great rural metaphor to me; we would say, "as nervous as a cat in a room full of rocking chairs".

thanks david...the crow completes the picture nicely!

all the best.

Excellent responses by everyone. Thank you all for your input.

AjarnP

[Rikker]

I'm not sure how widespread this usage is, but the late ม.ร.ว. คึกฤทธิ์ ปราโมช wrote a book called โครงกระดูกในตู้, literally "skeletons in the closet". Looking around the web, apart from references to the book, it seems to be used like the English. A Google search returns hits only in the hundreds, but there is at least some familiarity. Hard to say just how much.

[stateman]

I'm not sure how widespread this usage is, but the late ม.ร.ว. คึกฤทธิ์ ปราโมช wrote a book called โครงกระดูกในตู้, literally "skeletons in the closet". Looking around the web, apart from references to the book, it seems to be used like the English. A Google search returns hits only in the hundreds, but there is at least some familiarity. Hard to say just how much.

โครงกระดูกในตู้, literally "skeletons in the closet".

I believe that phrase is taken from the English phrase "skeletons in the closet" to introduce to Thai language as โครงกระดูกในตู้ It was not a native Thai phrase

[meadish_sweetball]

I believe that phrase is taken from the English phrase "skeletons in the closet" to introduce to Thai language as โครงกระดูกในตู้ It was not a native Thai phrase

I agree about that. But I think what Rikker was getting at, is would the phrase be commonly understood by most Thais or not?

[Rikker]

Yep, you're both right. I'm sure it's a translation from the English, but it appears to be used like the English (instead of taking on its own meaning, as happens with a lot of English words/phrases borrowed/calqued into other languages). So the question is, as Meadish has said, how widely understood is it?

[yoot]

Yep, you're both right. I'm sure it's a translation from the English, but it appears to be used like the English (instead of taking on its own meaning, as happens with a lot of English words/phrases borrowed/calqued into other languages). So the question is, as Meadish has said, how widely understood is it?

The answer is 'not much'. Only the ones who know the meaning of this English idiom understand but it's not used among Thai people in general.

[Crow Boy]

Yep, you're both right. I'm sure it's a translation from the English, but it appears to be used like the English (instead of taking on its own meaning, as happens with a lot of English words/phrases borrowed/calqued into other languages). So the question is, as Meadish has said, how widely understood is it?

Out of interest I asked my girlfriend and she had no idea what it meant. I also asked a neighbour who is a well educated Thai - he had no idea or at least his idea was way off.

I then called my ex thai teacher and she said it is an English expression that was used by a Newspaper and the writer had to explain what it meant in the article. It was referring to an ex Prime Minister who was written about in an English newspaper as having "many skeletons in many closets". She said very few Thais would know or have heard of the expression. She did like the Cow with the wounded back phrase and said that it is also used with a variation to mean the farmer who has beaten his cow/buffalo and now is worried that people will see/know he mistreats his animals. The phrase is used to talk about a third person and is that "he is worried like a man who has beaten his buffalo and people will know"

She said that there are many variations of these saying and they are not specific.

In the back of the SE-ED Thai to English Dictionary Desk Reference Edition (from p715) there are many Proverbs and Expressions. I couldn't find one that fits the skeleton reference.

CB