Squatters In Bangrak

[bbcsamui]

You keep referring to the land as "crown land."

If this belongs, nominally anyway, to the king, don't you think making it public that they are stealing from the king would shame them into action?

You had said that you could put a sign up on your property.

By the way, I have zero confidence that this mediation will result in anything beneficial to you. It's "them" against you. Face or no face, you are the outsider here.

you are correct about who is the owner and this is clear in all the communication with Thais. I just don't use the word for fear of it being edited out etc.

I already have the signs ready to go up when the time is right (i.e. at Loi Khratong when it is crowded with Thai and Farang at the gates to Big Buddha)...

The momentum is building against them.

[Pilchard]

looking at your photos is not your own house to close to the beach to be within legal regulations ?

I hope your situation is resolved soon and the beach restored

Great Sunday roast,

Cheers

[bbcsamui]

looking at your photos is not your own house to close to the beach to be within legal regulations ?

I hope your situation is resolved soon and the beach restored

Great Sunday roast,

Cheers

At the time of construction we were allowed to build up to 2 metres away from the boundary line (if it had a door / window in it or up to 50cm away if there was not a door or window). The other side of the boundary line is beach so today if I constructed again, I would only be allowed to build 10 metres from the high tide mark which could mean I have to build about 6 metres from my boundary line. When I rebuild, I will need to decide whether I want to keep the existing structure and just rennovate it or to build a totally new structure back a few metres. My current thoughts are to build a new structure back a few metres as it still allows a swimming pool etc to be built in front if we want to do that. Still thinking it through but need to be sure the squatters are truly going before I make a final decision on what to do.

I passed them today on the road and it looked like the whole family was packed into the pickup truck going somewhere - maybe to go and see the Tessaban in Nathon, maybe just to go shopping. Anyway, it was another day where no obvious movement has occured.

[bbcsamui]

17 November 2007

Today we received a visit from a very senior police officer. This gentleman is based in Suratthani and heads up the police force for the whole region (well that's what I think it was). I am going to get his job title translated as soon as possible to confirm it but I must say, he was the most professional one I have dealt with. He had prearranged to meet me at the restaurant at 7pm and called at 6.55 to say he was on his way and would not be long ... duly arriving at 7.05. I cannot remember the last time I experience this sort of punctuality in Thailand.

He looked at the photos, looked at the documents and said he already was aware of the case, knew the officer dealing with it and knew the bar next door as there was a shooting there about 3 years ago. It was a drive by shooting of a Lamai businessman who just happened to be sitting there for a drink. While it was not related to the family or bar in any other manner, it just reminded us of the potential dangers of Koh Samui.

He asked me to tell him why I felt I was in danger and I only just started to say how they told us "if they have to leave the house built on the beach, then I will have to leave Samui" ... and he said OK and picked up his phone to call the local station. He then wrote down the number of that station, his 2 personal mobile numbers and gave them to me, saying if at any time I feel the need then call him. He said he also asked the police to drop in to check on us frequently.

It still surprises me how I needed to say so little and then he understood ... it must be because it is a real (or am I still kidding myself), I know that if I was back in New Zealand and went to the police with that sort of statement they would certainly not take it as seriously.

Anyway, he assured me that the squatter family was totally in the wrong, doing things illegally and that they will be evicted in due course. He stated that the official papers take a week or so to get done as it would require a court order which will be delivered to the squatters by the police.

They will then get a short period of time to comply or go to jail. Once they have gone and things are cleared up, I should then get the original charges of trespass dropped. He stated that the squatter family will be continually reminded that they should not hold any further grudges or attempt any retribution and that he and the rest of the force will keep an eye on them / us.

He also stated that he understood it was all Papa that was doing the talking. He had heard that Papa felt it was his right to stay there on the beach as he was an old man and was from Samui.

Once again he said don't worry and said someone from the force will go see them tomorrow and then he was off on his way.

So, another day another story. I hope it is not getting too high profile ... but then again it needs to keep up the momentum to ensure there is action and ensure there is no retribution.

[bbcsamui]

18 November 2007

Two officers from the local Plai Leam police station came around today. They said that the boss had asked them to come and talk with us and also to keep an eye on us over the coming months.

Khun Sampan and Khun Somchai were very attentive, looked at the photos and documents etc listened to my wife (their English was not as good as their boss's, and my Thai is not as good as it should be).

They mentioned that Dim had previously come to ask them for permission to change her roof to the permanent material rather than the grass and semi permanent material it had been. They said that they said it was Ok for her to do so but admitted they did not really know anything about the situation. They did not know it was a 3 bedroom house on the beach, they did not know that it was connected to our house, that they were putting raw sewerage on the beach, blocking access etc.

After thinking about it, this is probably why Dim used to tell me she was not scared when I said I would go to the police. She probably thought that I would go to the local police and that they would ignore the silly farang ... but because I went to the Chaweng police and eventually to Suratthani, it is a different situation.

They did mention that there has been an increase in break-ins lately so we should certainly make sure our house is secure.

They then came and had a look for themselves and like everyone else before them, were totally surprised at the extent of the building - the size of it, the audacity to connect to us, the use of concrete poles into the beach etc.

They then gave us the number of the Plai Leam station (077 448 191) saying that we only need to call and they will be here in 3 minutes - or 5 minutes if there has been some rain causing flooding on the road.

We offered them coffees and drinks or food and they declined saying they were busy and had to go back to work.

So now we just wait to see when the paperwork comes through from the tessaban to evict the squatters. I was told to wait 2 weeks and the first week is now over ... anxiously waiting for the next week to pass.

[Khun Jean]

Reading this one should wonder if it is a good thing if Samui gets its 'city' status. At least now a non 'Samuian' policeman can be helpful.

I wish you strength and endurance in this 'fight'.

[GetBackJoJo]

It sounds as though you have really broke the back of this and a result is surely not too far away now.

I hope so, anyway. It does sounds as though you are begining to get real results here now.

Good luck - and credit to you for sticking this out.

[Mark Wolfe]

So it's sort of a Samui hillbilly thing where the old, ignorant local thinks he owns the place and that he is above the stupid laws.

Question is, do you think they will really go quietly into the night (so to speak)? This will be a massive humiliation, a financial fiasco and a lingering sore spot...I'd keep that Taser close at hand at all times.

[bbcsamui]

So it's sort of a Samui hillbilly thing where the old, ignorant local thinks he owns the place and that he is above the stupid laws.

Question is, do you think they will really go quietly into the night (so to speak)? This will be a massive humiliation, a financial fiasco and a lingering sore spot...I'd keep that Taser close at hand at all times.

I agree with you totally. I heard hammering etc inside the dwelling yesterday. I believe they still think they will not go anywhere and that I will just go back to farang land like all of the others.

Although they talk to me about being an unwanted farang, they appear still happy to sell beer to farangs and still happy for their kids to work for farang companies.

I don't expect them to go quietly, I personally believe we are no where near a final resolution to the issue, even after more than 6 years of pushing. I hope to be pleasantly surprised, but am actually planning for the opposite to occur.

[bbcsamui]

21 November 2007

Nothing happening lately other than they are still there and I see they have added another window and extended a wall ... no plans for them to move on yet by the looks of things.

Waiting patiently... (Well if you can call it patient when it keeps our anxiety levels quite high causing stress on the whole family)

I must admit the forum and in particular the very positive input both in the open and through PM does help to dissipate some of the stress ... but just wish it wasn't happening at all.

[bbcsamui]

23 November 2007

We had an appointment with Khun Watcharapong at the Nathon Police station today so I sneaked out and took a few photos to show him what has happened - and what has not.

Here is the nicely rendered wall that was previously connected to the house

The concrete posts into the sand are still there.

The rubbish is still there

They were still blocking the access so I put some new steps in - feel free to come and walk down them to the beach as it is a public beach.

More photos can be found here: 23 November update

The 4pm appointment with Khun Watcharapong was arranged yesterday so we picked up the kids after school at 3pm and rushed to Nathon to be there in plenty of time. When we got to Nathon, we were told that Khun Watcharapong would be delayed until 4.30pm so we went for a coffee and milkshake for the kids.

At 4.30 we went back to the police station and waited.

At 5pm we managed to have a chance to "wai" Khun Watcharapong as he rushed out the door and handed him a nice little basket of some stuff with a black label etc.

I also gave him the photos and he tucked them under his arm and said he was sorry and would come and see us in the next few days.

Since we did not achieve much in Nathon today we felt quite frustrated ... but that is the way it is here.

Today is one of those days where I feel they are never going to go. Perhaps tomorrow will be better - at least it is Loi Khratong and I can float a Khratong off the beach and make some wishes ...

[bbcsamui]

23 November 2007 ... later in the evening

The pressure is getting to us...

My wife is from Sisaket and feels out of her depth here in Samui and this little incident with the police officer made her feel as though he was purposely treating us in a low manner. I tried to explain that I believe it is just the way all officials work here in Samui and that it is not necessarily us getting singled out ... but she cracked...

She told me to leave the squatters alone, let them stay a few more years ... "they are doing no harm", "we can carry on our life with them still there" ... "if not maybe we should go somewhere else" ... My view is that I cannot stop or else they will be there forever when I walk out the front door, when I go onto the beach with the kids etc... we cannot stop now. And I do not see why we should have to go away like they want us to.

Anyway, I got hot under the collar and said that I would get rid of them even if I had to take a sledgehammer to it myself ... and her reply "good, you will enjoy the crowded jails, sleeping on the urine and bug infested floor, fighting for the measly meals they dish out... at least she can stay on the land and not have me pacing around looking at the squatters every 5 minutes".

Suffice to say, not much sleep in our household last night.

[Tony121]

There was a building built on monkey theatre rd about a year or so ago about 10 cm from the road it was only a conrete structure about a week later there was a sign from tessaban posted on it saying that it was illegal not long after it got taken down, have you seen any sign of a notice from tessaban on there building yet?

Also have you read the topic about the sign at lamai temple it looks like your neighbours are not the only ones having a blind eye turned to by tessaban,

Maybe next step will be to go to BKK

[GetBackJoJo]

"I've been here long enough to tolerate the locals"

Toleration.... in what context?

I can tolerate going for a haircut and paying double the price. I can tolerate some ignorant hick barging to the front of the 7/11 line after I have been waiting 5 minutes. I can even tolerate eating fried squid and rice when i ordered steak and chips.... These things, among many, are just Thailands ways.

But tolerating squaters building a house adjacent to my own illegaly, and throwing raw sewage yards away from my house, where the kids previously played?

Thats taking toleration to its highest level. Thats beyong toleration. Thats just stupid, and cowardly.

I think Mark tolerated these animals way back in the begining, when they asked if they could pitch up next door, just for a little while. That was showing incredible grace and plenty of toleration. But 6 years of taking the piss as they have, and your suggestion is to back the wife and move out?

Keep pushing Mark. If the wife has had enough thats understanderble but you need to be the man and keep pushing. By now it is pretty evident that no one is taking this very seriously but if you just keep nagging away and fighting to the bitter end, you will get there.

Give this Khun Watcharapong another chance.... go see him again and if he lets you down once more, could you not contact the Surrathani police guy who came to visit you?

Would it be possible to chuck a couple of quid to the Poo Yai Ban to come with you to Nathon asnd see this guy?

[ClaudeFeller]

I am afraid the Tessaban will not care anymore about this.

Rent a house for your family for a month or so and get an excavator to solve the problem with this hillbillys. It is your land, you can do what you want.

[Mark Wolfe]

What about the big cop from the mainland? I thought he had taken this into his realm. What about this calling card you have of his?

I don't know what reason you have for staying where you do, but having been around the southeast Asian block a few times myself, I'd examine whether it is worth it to continue pursuing this. Even if you win, will the mental and emotional quality of life become what you would wish? Is there a reasonable expectation that this will ever be resolved to your satisfaction?

As for selling your property, you have certainly posted enough compelling material to dissuade nearly any buyer from even considering a purchase at any price.

If you are in business, there are many other locations in Samui and Phangan and Koh Tao. Or in Malaysia or the Philippines for example.

Although like you, I have a natural instinct to fight for the principle of an issue, but at some point you need to get away from it all, reflect on what life is really worth for your family and the impact of this on the kids, and think about whether you can be bigger than all this -- I mean, the squatters are ignorant losers, the police are the same and any attempt to alter this may only have a slightly better chance of success as creating a cubical sphere.

In the end, wherever you go, the squatters will still be ignorant pigs and you will still have acted, in the words of the I Ching, as "the superior man."

M

[bbcsamui]

What about the big cop from the mainland? I thought he had taken this into his realm. What about this calling card you have of his?

I don't know what reason you have for staying where you do, but having been around the southeast Asian block a few times myself, I'd examine whether it is worth it to continue pursuing this. Even if you win, will the mental and emotional quality of life become what you would wish? Is there a reasonable expectation that this will ever be resolved to your satisfaction?

As for selling your property, you have certainly posted enough compelling material to dissuade nearly any buyer from even considering a purchase at any price.

If you are in business, there are many other locations in Samui and Phangan and Koh Tao. Or in Malaysia or the Philippines for example.

Although like you, I have a natural instinct to fight for the principle of an issue, but at some point you need to get away from it all, reflect on what life is really worth for your family and the impact of this on the kids, and think about whether you can be bigger than all this -- I mean, the squatters are ignorant losers, the police are the same and any attempt to alter this may only have a slightly better chance of success as creating a cubical sphere.

In the end, wherever you go, the squatters will still be ignorant pigs and you will still have acted, in the words of the I Ching, as "the superior man."

M

Mark, we cannot go. The land is owned by the children and is their inheritance, it is quite a valuable piece of land, hard to sell at the moment due to the general slowdown and also because of the neigbours. The business is generally doing Ok even in the so-called downturn. I could go back to work in the corporate world but don't want to leave the family alone here so we would have to go somewhere else. Our major assets are tied up in Samui so we are essentially stuck. Even if this was not the case, I am not prepared to lose this battle just yet. I feel we are getting progress and will get out of it unscathed. But in saying that, there are times when I could sell the lot very cheaply and walk away ... it is definitely an emotional roller coaster.

There was some action yesterday but not sure whether to consider it progress .. that will be clearer in the coming days...

27 November 2007

Not much progress in the last couple of days. Just some more high tides washing away some of the debris and starting to get under the footings buried into the sand.

Khun Watcharapong did come and visit us today. I got a call around 5.30pm to say he was coming in 10 minutes with another police officer to take some update pictures and have a discussion.

3 people arrived at around 6.40pm. Khun Watcharapong, a policeman from Phuket and his wife. The policeman from Phuket was the equivalent level as Khun Watcharapong and was on Samui for a general inspection visit.

Khun Watcharapong did go and inspect the progress, took a couple of photos and then went back to the restaurant to have some wine and dinner with his guests.

10.30pm they left and assured me that there would be some more progress in a couple of days. It was not quite clear what that progress would be, but I am assuming it might be that the Tessaban will issue the paperwork for removal of the dwelling.

While it appears that not much has really happened int he last few days, on the positive side I did manage to do some community service by providing some food and drink for the diligent police in both Samui and Phuket and managed to cloth them by providing some BBC t-shirts.

We will just have to wait and see what happens in the next few days.

[bbcsamui]

4 December 2007

Not much to report at the moment because basically nothing has happened that we are aware of. No more visits from Police or other officials and we cannot see any signs of the squatters moving away - in fact they are still making extensions / modifications over by the sala bar.

An article did come out in the Samui Express which has resulted in some good support from locals, but other than that, life goes on.

I have been told by Suthep to take it quietly as we still have not got our plans approved for revamping the restaurant etc. Although the intention is to redo it and make sure all is within the current laws, he still feels it is appropriate we do not push too hard or else it might be difficult to get them approved.

So, in a bit of a lull at the moment in terms of trying to get some totally illegal squatters off a stolen piece of beach until the totally legal plans get approved on a totally legal piece of land.

Doesn't feel morally right to me, but I will heed the advice for the moment.

[Dingojoe]

4 December 2007

Not much to report at the moment because basically nothing has happened that we are aware of. No more visits from Police or other officials and we cannot see any signs of the squatters moving away - in fact they are still making extensions / modifications over by the sala bar.

An article did come out in the Samui Express which has resulted in some good support from locals, but other than that, life goes on.

I have been told by Suthep to take it quietly as we still have not got our plans approved for revamping the restaurant etc. Although the intention is to redo it and make sure all is within the current laws, he still feels it is appropriate we do not push too hard or else it might be difficult to get them approved.

So, in a bit of a lull at the moment in terms of trying to get some totally illegal squatters off a stolen piece of beach until the totally legal plans get approved on a totally legal piece of land.

Doesn't feel morally right to me, but I will heed the advice for the moment.

Mark, Suthep is 100% right, let it cool a bit, Suthep is Thai and a Laywer and an ex Cop.

let it cool a bit, things will work out maybe not to your full expectations but they will work out.

You cant let them loose too much face too quick.

[bbcsamui]

Mark, Suthep is 100% right, let it cool a bit, Suthep is Thai and a Laywer and an ex Cop.

let it cool a bit, things will work out maybe not to your full expectations but they will work out.

You cant let them loose too much face too quick.

I am taking it quietly as it also means less stress on us, but they are making it hard at times.

Papa came over and talked with Aree our gardener yesterday evening. He was asking why the farang had stopped talking at them and stopped taking pictures. Papa said that they had no plans to move and that in fact they were going to open a restaurant on the site in the high season. He told Aree that I should try to save money and turn off the spotlight on the beach at night (I have a light out the front of our house for security purposes. This is not necessarily the squatters, just that there are a few people walking out on the beach at night as they go fishing in the shallow water). He said I need to save money as I am not going to make much because I have too many staff and expenses. He said his new restaurant is going to make lots of money because they will use family to staff it (and obviously they dont pay rent or anything for the land).

I am not looking forward to all of the extra waste from the restaurant going out onto the beach and will certainly start taking pictures again soon.

Since it is the Kings Birthday we are going to do the usual thing and get the staff cleaning up the beach area and will even clean up some of their rubbish for them. If we try to keep it clean, then maybe, just maybe, they might try to do so as well.

I am not sure whether to laugh at Papa's fighting and arrogant words or get angry. At the moment we are focusing on our own thing and trying not to get more angry, so are just laughing it off (but there is always the thought in the back of our mind that we may be here in 5 years still trying to get them off the beach ... which leaves us with not so happy feelings and a bit of tension in the household).

[Lite Beer]

It does sound as if they are going nowhere.

Personally I could not live the way you are living. I would have either lost my temper with them or cut my losses and moved away.

Hopefully you are being more sensible than I would be. Good Luck.

[beamer]

Dont come down to Papa's level ! u probley wind him up when you stalk him with the camera. So not having you stalk and bark at him recently is probley making him more worried . Let the Authorities take thier action in thier own bureacratic process

U owe it to your kids to be level headed / mature.

Take a day off and sail ! unwind dude !

[Mark Wolfe]

The land is owned by the children and is their inheritance

How is that? How can they own the land and at the same time have it be their inheritance?

Whatever the deal is, they don't have to be there to "own" the land.

You really need to think about cutting this out. As I said, is it worth it? Is it fair to the kids?

I am guessing (correct me if I am wrong) that you had a good job before coming to Thailand, did come, fell for a local, packed in the "corporate" job and the rest is history. I can't believe you have endured five years of this <deleted>. I'm surprised you don't have an ulcer...and is this the Samui life you envisioned from the start?

If it doesn't resolve itself in a month, I'd start thinking exit strategies. Maybe it's time to kick-start that old profession again....

Edited December 5, 2007 by Mark Wolfe

[bbcsamui]

The land is owned by the children and is their inheritance

How is that? How can they own the land and at the same time have it be their inheritance?

Whatever the deal is, they don't have to be there to "own" the land.

You really need to think about cutting this out. As I said, is it worth it? Is it fair to the kids?

I am guessing (correct me if I am wrong) that you had a good job before coming to Thailand, did come, fell for a local, packed in the "corporate" job and the rest is history. I can't believe you have endured five years of this <deleted>. I'm surprised you don't have an ulcer...and is this the Samui life you envisioned from the start?

If it doesn't resolve itself in a month, I'd start thinking exit strategies. Maybe it's time to kick-start that old profession again....

I came to Samui to get out of a hectic Singapore based corporate life where I spent 28 days a month traveling all over the world London, San Francisco, Sydney, Tokyo, Seoul.... 8 years, 2 million air miles , 2 divorces later I "settled in Samui". I still do consulting but in this IT world, I can do most of it from Samui and very rarely need to get out. The problem is that the businesses that require the hands on approach are the Samui ones.

You are right in that we should consider leaving, but we feel that if we are not here pushing it then they will still be here when we come back and probably have more strength ... so after years of softly softly we are gradually ramping up. We believe we can endure it, because of the great support we are getting from all aspects, plus we are legally and morally right.

I agree with beamer, in that I think Papa is worried it has gone quiet ... we may be quiet, but we are still working the strings as much as possible. I also know that if I put too much pressure on officials then it will either upset them or cost me money so leaving things to go through the motions (sorry about the pun but I did see some waste go onto the beach today) in its own time. Sometimes a pause in proceedings helps gather the troops.

I doubt they will be gone in a month, but at least I hope there is some general impetus building up over that time and maybe after a successful high season we can have some clearing of the beach.

[kevbap]

if you need to get away for a little while, whilst all this is going on, dont hesitate to call me to look after your place again. i think we worked well last time! you know my number.

Good luck, mate.

[bbcsamui]

if you need to get away for a little while, whilst all this is going on, dont hesitate to call me to look after your place again. i think we worked well last time! you know my number.

Good luck, mate.

Kevbap, thanks for the offer. However I have no plans to go anywhere as I know that if I am not being crazy taking photos and yelling at the builders, they will build some more extensions. If I go away, they might add another room, more balcony out over the sea or perhaps even another toilet to put their sewerage onto the beach. So at the moment, I will endure.

I did ask Dim yesterday for the money she promised to pay for Annas room to be repaired and she said she could not afford it, so it looks like that line of questioning has reached its expected conclusion. They had enough money to build onto the wall, they had enough money to demolish the wall when asked by the police, they had enough money to then build just 50cm away, but not enough money to pay me for repairs ... obviously they expect me to forget about it ... well I won't.

We'll clear the beach tomorrow and take away some rubbish, including some rather large bits of concrete, some scraps of wood and some plastic pipe all making the crown beach look rather messy. I have arranged for a truck to some around in the morning, so if you want to come around for a working bee, please feel free to do so.

[Khun Jean]

Bulldozer time is approaching rapidly.

[bruceboy]

Amazing story! Please keep us posted and good luck.

[Mark Wolfe]

Since the land doesn't belong to the squatters, why not take the rubbish from the beach and dump it in the middle of where they are? I see no reason you should pay to haul it away.

"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought this garbage belonged to you...."

[highdiver]

Hey BBC.

hang in there. and play the game the thai way.

advise the poo yai ban wit that the the squatters are not obiding to the decision that was reached causing him to loose face as a poo yai ban. that should get things a little shake.

the Poo yai ban is concerned about his reputation more then he is concernd about your problem.