What Is The Difference Between These Two Similar Phrases

[Wizzard of Oz]

koie chin

khun® koie

They are both supposed to mean 'get used to something', but I think that one means that you learned how to deal with something/someone (like dealing with a difficult person - maybe?), while the other means you just got used to it (like a pair of shoes - maybe?)

I think khun® here means 'familiar' (?)

I think koie means 'ever' as in the opposite of never, so to kinda mean that 'you have' (?)

Can you start by explaining the individual words (and correcting the tone if it is wrong or missing)

Followed by the meaning when used together

And finally a sentence

Thanks for any help,

WoZ

[DavidHouston]

Here are some examples from Lexitron and from a recent edition of Matichon:

คุ้นเคย [V] be familiar; intimate; acquaint; be accustomed; be well-known; habituate

Syn. เคยชิน, ชอบพอ, คุ้นเคย, สนิท, รู้จักดี

Ant. แปลกใหม่.

Def. รู้จักชอบพอสนิทสนมเป็นกันเอง, เคยเห็นเคยทำบ่อยๆ จนชิน.

Sample:คนอินเดียส่วนใหญ่ยังเป็นชาวชนบทที่ไม่คุ้นเคยกับรถยนต์

"Most Indians are rural people who are not accustomed to motorized vehicles."

เคยชิน [V] become familiar; intimate; acquaint; be accustomed; habituate

Def. เป็นปกติ, เป็นประจำ, เป็นนิสัย, เป็นกิจวัตร.

Sample:เขาเคยชินกับการเป็นพี่ที่ต้องปกป้องดูแลน้องๆ

"He [she] is accustomed to being an older brother [sister] who need to look after his [her] younger siblings."

Note that Lexitron states that เคยชิน is synonomous with คุ้นเคย but not the other way around.

Domnern Sathienpong translates คุ้นเคย as "to know (someone); to be familiar (with)"; and it translates เคยชิน as "familiar, accustomed".

Here is an example of "เคยชิน" from a September of this year article in Matichon:

"ปัญหาความไม่สงบใน 3 จังหวัดชายแดนภาคใต้กลายเป็นข่าวปกติ และเป็นความเคยชินของสังคมไทยไปแล้ว"

"The problem of unrest in the three Southern provinces as become ordinary news; and it is something with which Thai society has become very familiar." In this case, the reporter or commentator uses the noun form, "ความเคยชิน", which we might call, "familiarity."

Here is an example of "" from the same article:

"ภัยในภาคใต้เป็นภัยนอกรูปแบบที่ทหารเองก็ยอมรับว่า ไม่คุ้นเคยกับการรบที่ไม่เท่าเทียมกัน"

"The dangers [facing the military] in the South are dangers of an unconventional nature. The military itself acknowledges that it is not accustomed to [this sort of] asymetrical warfare."

[DavidHouston]

Correction and transcription:

Here is an example of "คุ้นเคย" from the same article:

"ภัยในภาคใต้เป็นภัยนอกรูปแบบที่ทหารเองก็ยอมรับว่า ไม่คุ้นเคยกับการรบที่ไม่เท่าเทียมกัน"

"pai nai pâak dtâi bpen pai nôk rôop bàep têe tá-hăan eng gôr yom ráp wâa mâi kóon koie gàp gaan róp têe mâi tâo tiam gan "

"The dangers [facing the military] in the South are dangers of an unconventional nature. The military itself acknowledges that it is not accustomed to [this sort of] asymetrical warfare."

Edited November 14, 2007 by DavidHouston

[Wizzard of Oz]

Ahh sorry, forgot to mention that I can't read thai - only english phoenetics. Sorry.

Any chance someone could go through that and put in brackets after the thai, the english phenetic version (with tones if at all possible)? It looks like a really useful explination, but I can't read it.

Cheers for the help,

WoZ

[DavidHouston]

Here are some examples from Lexitron and from a recent edition of Matichon:

คุ้นเคย [kóon koie] [V] be familiar; intimate; acquaint; be accustomed; be well-known; habituate

Syn. เคยชิน [koie chin], ชอบพอ, คุ้นเคย, สนิท, รู้จักดี

Ant. แปลกใหม่.

Def. รู้จักชอบพอสนิทสนมเป็นกันเอง, เคยเห็นเคยทำบ่อยๆ จนชิน.

Sample:คนอินเดียส่วนใหญ่ยังเป็นชาวชนบทที่ไม่คุ้นเคยกับรถยนต์

[kon in-dia sùan yài yang bpen chaao chon bòt têe mâi kóon koie gàp rót-yon]

"Most Indians are rural people who are not accustomed to motorized vehicles."

เคยชิน [koie chin] [V] become familiar; intimate; acquaint; be accustomed; habituate

Def. เป็นปกติ, เป็นประจำ, เป็นนิสัย, เป็นกิจวัตร.

Sample:เขาเคยชินกับการเป็นพี่ที่ต้องปกป้องดูแลน้องๆ

[kăo koie chin gàp gaan bpen pêe têe dtông bpòk bpông doo lae nóng-nóng]

"He [she] is accustomed to being an older brother [sister] who need to look after his [her] younger siblings."

Note that Lexitron states that เคยชิน [koie chin] is synonomous with คุ้นเคย [kóon koie] but not the other way around.

Domnern Sathienpong translates คุ้นเคย [kóon koie] as "to know (someone); to be familiar (with)"; and it translates เคยชิน [koie chin] as "familiar, accustomed".

Here is an example of "เคยชิน" [koie chin] from a September of this year article in Matichon:

"ปัญหาความไม่สงบใน 3 จังหวัดชายแดนภาคใต้กลายเป็นข่าวปกติ และเป็นความเคยชินของสังคมไทยไปแล้ว"

bpan hăa kwaam mâi sà-ngòp nai 3 jang-wàt chaai daen pâak dtâi glaai bpen kàao bpòk-gà-dtì láe bpen kwaam koie chin kŏng săng-kom tai bpai láew

"The problem of unrest in the three Southern provinces as become ordinary news; and it is something with which Thai society has become very familiar." In this case, the reporter or commentator uses the noun form, "ความเคยชิน", which we might call, "familiarity."

Here is an example of "" from the same article:

"ภัยในภาคใต้เป็นภัยนอกรูปแบบที่ทหารเองก็ยอมรับว่า ไม่คุ้นเคยกับการรบที่ไม่เท่าเทียมกัน"

[pai nai pâak dtâi bpen pai nôk rôop bàep têe tá-hăan eng gôr yom ráp wâa mâi kóon koie gàp gaan róp têe mâi tâo tiam gan ]

"The dangers [facing the military] in the South are dangers of an unconventional nature. The military itself acknowledges that it is not accustomed to [this sort of] asymetrical warfare."

[Wizzard of Oz]

Thank you very much!

So from what I can gather, while being very similar the difference appears to be:

kóon koie - means they have gotteen used to (in a more passive manner) being in a new situation the has come along - like existing with having motorized cars

koie chin - means to have learned how to deal (actively doing something) in a situation that has come along - like specifically taking care of younger siblings.

Does that sounds right by any chance?

One more thing - I was wondering what 'chin' means as a separate (and possibly completely unrelated) word to 'koie chin'?

Cheers,

WoZ

[DavidHouston]

So from what I can gather, while being very similar the difference appears to be:

kóon koie - means they have gotteen used to (in a more passive manner) being in a new situation the has come along - like existing with having motorized cars

koie chin - means to have learned how to deal (actively doing something) in a situation that has come along - like specifically taking care of younger siblings.

Does that sounds right by any chance?

I don't think that the active/passive characterization of the difference is correct. I believe that more simply stated, คุ้นเคย [kóon koie] should be used with the notion of "to be familiar with" where as เคยชิน [koie chin] is better translated as "to be used to." Perhaps others in this forum have a different perspective.

Edited November 16, 2007 by DavidHouston

[Neeranam]

Interesting - "koon koei" is not used very often, IMHO.

I'd like to translate the following: -

1 - I never drink whisky

2 - I've never drunk whisky

3 - I'm used to drinking whisky(ie I come from Scotland so can drink 2 bottles in one day without falling over.

Can anyone help?

Also what's the word for tolerance? ie I built up a tolerance to a certain drug.

N N

[DavidHouston]

One more thing - I was wondering what 'chin' means as a separate (and possibly completely unrelated) word to 'koie chin'?

Cheers,

WoZ

Sorry, you also asked for guidance on the word 'chin' alone. This is from Lexitron:

ชิน [chin] [V] be accustomed to; be used to; be familiar with

Syn. คุ้น, เคย, เจน, เคยชิน, คุ้นชิน

Def. มีประสบการณ์มาแล้วจนชำนาญ.

mee bprà-sòp gaan maa láew jon cham-naan

"to have experience [with something] already so [as to achieve] competence"

Sample:ผมเริ่มชินกับลีลาการเล่านิทานของวิทยากรแต่ละท่าน

pŏm rêrm chin gàp lee-laa gaan lâo ní-taan kŏng wít-tá-yaa-gon dtàe lá tâan

"I have begun to be accustomed to the story-telling style of different experts."

[Wizzard of Oz]

Ahhhh ... ok, it makes more sense now that I know what 'chin' means.

sorry for more questions - just trying to understand it a little better. So here it goes:

1. What is the difference between 'chin' and 'koie chin' ?

2. Similarly - what is the difference between 'kóon' and 'kóon koie'

3. Is there a reason why the 'koie' comes before 'chin' but after 'kóon'?

4. Which of these do I add the word 'gap' (translating to 'with') to immediately after if I am putting the subject next? :

- 'kóon gap ...'

- 'kóon koie gap ...'

- 'chin gap ...'

- 'koie chin gap ...'

Thanks again for the great help.

[meadish_sweetball]

1. What is the difference between 'chin' and 'koie chin' ?

2. Similarly - what is the difference between 'kóon' and 'kóon koie'

Longer expressions are often seen as preferable (more eloquent/beautiful) in writing, poetry and official spoken language, so if you want to sound eloquent, use the two-part expressions. Apart from that, I can not distinguish any important difference in meaning based on how I have seen the expressions used - there may still be one though, perhaps yoot or somebody else can elaborate on it.

4. Which of these do I add the word 'gap' (translating to 'with') to immediately after if I am putting the subject next? :

- 'kóon gap ...'

- 'kóon koie gap ...'

- 'chin gap ...'

- 'koie chin gap ...'

You can add กับ gap after all of those.

[Wizzard of Oz]

Thank you for the help

[luckyfarang]

Ahhhh ... ok, it makes more sense now that I know what 'chin' means.

sorry for more questions - just trying to understand it a little better. So here it goes:

1. What is the difference between 'chin' and 'koie chin' ?

2. Similarly - what is the difference between 'kóon' and 'kóon koie'

This is my take:

KOEI CHIN - - - - - - to get used to something, to become accustomed to (transitive verb)

CHIN, CHIN LAEO(h) - - - - - - used to something, already accustomed to (adjective)

YANG MAI(f) KOEI CHIN, YANG MAI(f) CHIN - - - - - still not used to something, still not accustomed to

KOON(h) KOEI - - - - - - - become acquainted (with someone), familiarize oneself with something (verb)

I hear KOEI CHIN frequently, KOON(h) KOEI much less, probably used more in writing than spoken.

Edited December 18, 2007 by luckyfarang