Motorcy

[begsaresponse]

There are far too many motorcy driving around the streets/pavements. Going the right way/the wrong way/any way they like. They pull out with no reference to other traffic. If they can't drive straight on because of something like a red light, they simply turn left,cross two lanes of traffic and turn left allowing them to drive straight on. Well I mean, come on how rediculous is this?

Helmets are worn only to avoid being fined by the police. As soon as they pass "check point" where there might be a policeman the helmet is off and fingers run through the hair. Not all have a licence or have insurance.

Now I don't care what nationality they are but motorcy drivers are a law unto themselves. And I am shocked that more are not killed on road every day.

The way they crowd the traffic lights waiting for the "count down" shows a lack of consideration for other people on the road. And for all on coming traffic.

And yes you might have guessed but I drive a vehicle with four wheels.

But today I was shocked one motorcy driver gave a hand signal...now it was not of the two finger variety but a proper right turn hand signal. Now that was a first I have ever seen in Pattaya!

And the parking of those who rent out motorcy is crazy. They should be forced to house them in a storage area away from streets where there are walk ways. And there are few enough of them, but thats another topic.

I know there are references to the "baht bus drivers mafia" but I think the way motorcy drivers dominate the streets they are the ones who are the 'mafia of the streets'.

Well I have had my rant which has been a long time coming. Whats your opinion?

[moo9]

If you are rich enough, then buy them all a car

Apart from this, I ride my motorcycle as well in Pattaya. Mostly I enjoy it, sometimes I hate it. But more cars on the streets would make them more safe, considering the driving skills of most inhabitants.

Cheers

[patsfangr]

I think you're imagining all of this, begs. I hear people complain about this all the time; but, along with the people who claim there is a lot of prostitution, political corruption, and poor road maintenance in this tropical paradise, resort city, I'm sure that you must be exaggerating.

(You forgot about the families of 4, including two small children, one often an infant in arms, carrying packages, and all without head protection of any kind ... well, other than their thick skulls, that is.)

[moo9]

If you are rich enough, then buy them all a car

Apart from this, I ride my motorcycle as well in Pattaya. Mostly I enjoy it, sometimes I hate it. But more cars on the streets would make them more safe, considering the driving skills of most inhabitants.

Cheers

oh typo......more cars would NOT turn the roads more safe...for sure...

[Sir Burr]

Motorcy drivers do not hold the monopoly on bad driving skills, four wheel drivers are just as bad.

[andyadam]

The motorcyc is actually the governments way of strengthening the gene pool and poulation control!!!!!! 2 birds 1 stone.

[patsfangr]

Motorcy drivers do not hold the monopoly on bad driving skills, four wheel drivers are just as bad.

I have to strongly disagree with you on that, Sir Burr. I drive a passenger car. I drove for over 40 years in the USA. During that time, I had a total of two vehicles run into me. Both were cars. I have now been driving here in Thailand for 16 months. During that time, I have had a total of 4 vehicles run into me. Every one was a motorbike. Two of them occured while I was at a complete stop: once parked; once at a red light.

Both of the accidents that occured while I was stopped were due to motorbikes trying to "squeeze through" a space that was too small for them to navigate. One of the moving accidents occured for the same reason, as a bike tried to run between two lanes of moving automobiles. The other moving accident occured when, on a 2 lane road, I signalled a right turn, with no oncoming traffic in the right hand lane. I checked the mirror, and there was no bike in sight. I turned my attention to the soi I was turning into. As the front of my vehicle entered the soi, a bike ran into the right rear fender of my car. Where the FLICK he came from, I have no idea. I stopped, and as I opened the door, he backed off, maneuvered around my car, and sped off.

Now, none of the actions committed by these 4 motorbikes are things that I've seen cars do. The Thai drivers of 4-wheeled vehicles do, for the most part, suck. But their ineptitude is primarily displayed by an inability to drive at any faster than the average ox cart. They just cannot handle cars and pickups. But I don't see them doing things that directly cause accidents. Nor do I see anywhere even close to the number of traffic laws, or common sense, that I see by motorbikes.

As the original poster said, bikes come into traffic from all sides, most often without looking in any direction but where they are heading. They constantly try to pass moving cars, on two lane roads, on whichever side they deem to be most open to them. This is strictly against the law in any country. A motorbike should ALWAYS operate in line with moving cars when there is only a single lane in each direction. Here, they are almost constantly to be found trying to pass you on one side or the other, when traffic slows at all.

Motorbikes are the single greatest threat to traffic safety in Pattaya, with no other motor vehicle even CLOSE! And the infrequent "check points" set up by the useless MIB are, obviously, totally ineffective in improving traffic safety. All they do is check for helmets, and, as noted earlier, the Thais either avoid the checkpoints, or temporarily pop on a "toy" plastic helmet, which couldn't protect the driver or passenger from a head slap by a strong woman! Have you EVER seen a Thai motorbike driver pulled over, other than at a "checkpoint" for driving without a helmet, or for an obvious violation of traffic safety? I haven't.

And it would be so very easy to make significant progress, if they really wanted to. Some steps:

1. Begin by announcing on radio, TV, and in newspapers that ALL traffic laws will be enforced agianst both cars and motorbikes.

2. Make some changes to the punishments for violations by motorbike drivers, including:

- Upgrade the minimum requirements (if there are any!) for the "structural safety" of helmets.

- Anyone driving without a helmet, or carrying a passenger without one, shall have his/her bike impounded until the driver retrieves it, wearing a legal helmet, by paying a fine of 500 baht. (If the passenger is a child under the age of 12, the fine shall be doubled.)

- Anyone driving around a moving 4-wheeled vehicle in the same lane of traffic shall be fined 500 baht.

- Anyone making an unsafe turn on a motorbike (i.e., not checking oncoming traffic in the turn lane) shall be fined 500 baht.

- Anyone moving blocking a turn lane when traffic is stopped, thereby preventing 4-wheeled vehicles from legally using that turn lane, shall be fined 500 baht.

- Anyone driving a motorbike without a license shall have the motorbike impounded, and shall be fined 500 baht. The motorbike must be retrieved by a licensed motorbike driver.

(OK. Those are just for STARTERS on changes to the laws, fines, and punishments!)

3. Assign a force of Motorbike Police to be on constant patrol in the entire Pattaya area (INCLUDING EAST OF SUKHUMVIT), and to actually TAKE ACTION when bikes violate any of the laws.

4. Post stationary police, with motorbikes at the ready, at various points in and around the city, and its' suburbs, to ovserve and enforce traffic laws. Randomly rotate these traffic police positions.

5. Reprimand police who fail to effectively enforce the laws; with a provision for dismissal if an officer exceeds 3 such reprimands.

6. Institute and enforce a mandatory dismissal, and a 1-year jail sentence for any officer found guilty of accepting a bribe.

Do all of the above, and I guarantee you that the streets of Pattaya will be significantly safer, as well as significantly less infuriating for people who have spent most of their lives in civilized countries. You know who they are, don't you? The're the ones who bring most of the money into this place!

Oh, and here's a silly, related idea. Use the funds collected in those fines to actually make an effort to consistently and effectively maintain the "war zone" roads in this "tropical paradise, resort city"!

Now that I've publicly proposed all of these constructive suggestions to improve both the flow and safety of traffic in Pattaya, I'm sure that the authorities will take action to institute some, if not all of them. Aren't you?

[begsaresponse]

I think you're imagining all of this, begs. I hear people complain about this all the time; but, along with the people who claim there is a lot of prostitution, political corruption, and poor road maintenance in this tropical paradise, resort city, I'm sure that you must be exaggerating.

(You forgot about the families of 4, including two small children, one often an infant in arms, carrying packages, and all without head protection of any kind ... well, other than their thick skulls, that is.)

Well what can I say I was so into 'my rant' that forgetting to highlight your points was inevitable! Plus it seems that police don't stop school children ...guess its obvious they don't have a licence,no insurance,no helmet and no money!

[begsaresponse]

Now that I've publicly proposed all of these constructive suggestions to improve both the flow and safety of traffic in Pattaya, I'm sure that the authorities will take action to institute some, if not all of them. Aren't you?

Yes...considering those in the media who monitor this site. They don't have to wait for the authorities to take any action. Just have a genuine concern for the City in which they live!

[howard251]

My biggest peeve with them is when I see them or don’t see them at night due to a burnt out tail light. I think 40% of the motor bikes in Chiang Mai have no working tail light. Add to that they wear a dark jacket or shirt and dark colored pants, no helmet and no reflective anything. On darker secondary roads it’s very hard to see them, plus most of the front car windshields in Thailand are tinted.

Either they don’t care to spend 10 baht to replace their broken tail light, or as I say, their life must be worth less then 10 baht.

[britmaveric]

Sorry I think Saigon has it much worse.......

[Manchester]

There are far too many motorcy driving around the streets/pavements. Going the right way/the wrong way/any way they like. They pull out with no reference to other traffic. If they can't drive straight on because of something like a red light, they simply turn left,cross two lanes of traffic and turn left allowing them to drive straight on. Well I mean, come on how rediculous is this?

Helmets are worn only to avoid being fined by the police. As soon as they pass "check point" where there might be a policeman the helmet is off and fingers run through the hair. Not all have a licence or have insurance.

Now I don't care what nationality they are but motorcy drivers are a law unto themselves. And I am shocked that more are not killed on road every day.

The way they crowd the traffic lights waiting for the "count down" shows a lack of consideration for other people on the road. And for all on coming traffic.

And yes you might have guessed but I drive a vehicle with four wheels.

But today I was shocked one motorcy driver gave a hand signal...now it was not of the two finger variety but a proper right turn hand signal. Now that was a first I have ever seen in Pattaya!

And the parking of those who rent out motorcy is crazy. They should be forced to house them in a storage area away from streets where there are walk ways. And there are few enough of them, but thats another topic.

I know there are references to the "baht bus drivers mafia" but I think the way motorcy drivers dominate the streets they are the ones who are the 'mafia of the streets'.

Well I have had my rant which has been a long time coming. Whats your opinion?

Get used to it. Thats Thailand for you !

Better still, get rid of the Fortuner and buy a bike.

[plasticpig]

name='begsaresponse' date='2007-11-14 19:23:54' post='1650778']

And the parking of those who rent out motorcy is crazy. They should be forced to house them in a storage area away from streets where there are walk ways. And there are few enough of them, but thats another topic.

Whats your opinion?

I bet you would misster ploice man.

[innovator]

One good alternative to driving a car or bike is to walk around the city. It is similar to the game, "Frogger", that was popular about 20 years ago.

Do you remember that video game? The object was for the frog to cross the road without getting hit and killed by a car/truck/bike or whatever.

So, if you are a top athlete with frogger like jumping skills, it is quite safe to get across the road. However, if you are a bit overweight, fat, obese, injured, old, drunk, sick, or just a normal person, then walking is not a good choice.

There is a good defensive mechanism...walk tall, speak loudly and carry a big stick. You can always whack the drivers off the bikes with your long pole as they try to drive right into you and your Thai wife and small kids as you cross the road. Try it....this defensive technique actually works.

[moo9]

It is similar to the game, "Frogger", that was popular about 20 years ago.

Lol....Frogger Classic Pattaya Edition

Various difficulty levels...

Stage 1 - Beach Road (usually quite easy due to slow moving traffic)

Stage 2 - Naklua Road

Stage 3 - Sai Sam

Stage 4 - 2nd Road

Stage 5 - Sukhumvit

Edited November 15, 2007 by moo9

[plasticpig]

Just jump on the roof of the first car, then over to the next, then the next, then your home!!!!

Is one life gone, if you land on a baht bus

or was it logs?

Edited November 15, 2007 by plasticpig

[Mobi]

As a long time driver and a person who has lost so many friends and acquaintances to motorcycle accident through the years, I can't but agree with those who criticise the standard of driving by many Thai motorcyclists.

However, couple of points.

In many accidents involving motorcyclists, the drivers often are completely innocent of bad driving and the accidents have been the direct cause of by car/pick-up/truck/bus drivers driving dangerously. Frequently the bike rider has done nothing wrong, and is simply mowed down by a 4 wheeled vehicle who simply didn't see him, and, more often than not, was drunk.

I go to great lengths to persuade anyone I know, never to ride a motor bike in this town. They are death traps, even if the bike drivers obey every law of the road.

Farang motorbike drivers are no better, and often worse., because they think they are in their home country and ride in the middle of lanes at there own speed and think they have the right of the road. They can't seem to get it through their thick heads, that to most Thai drivers, they don't exist, and if they are in the way or impeding the progress of a speeding car, they will just get mowed off the road if they are not bloody careful.

The other day I saw a farang man and woman on a motor bike in Pattaya Klang , riding without helmets. They were stopped by a cop outside Carrefour. Then, I couldn't believe my eyes; the farangs opened up the seat, took out 2 helmets and put them on!

Then the other evening I was driving around Mabprachan Lake on the "Darkside" (and it is pretty dark around there at night), and at the last possible moment I spotted a bike with a burned out back light. This is always one of my worse nightmares, as you really can't see them until you are almost on top of them. And guess what? The rider was a farang - and he wasn't even wearing a helmet.

Honestly, the mind boggles

Edited November 15, 2007 by Mobi

[Weho]

Motorcy drivers do not hold the monopoly on bad driving skills, four wheel drivers are just as bad.

I have to strongly disagree with you on that, Sir Burr. I drive a passenger car. I drove for over 40 years in the USA. During that time, I had a total of two vehicles run into me. Both were cars. I have now been driving here in Thailand for 16 months. During that time, I have had a total of 4 vehicles run into me. Every one was a motorbike. Two of them occured while I was at a complete stop: once parked; once at a red light.

Both of the accidents that occured while I was stopped were due to motorbikes trying to "squeeze through" a space that was too small for them to navigate. One of the moving accidents occured for the same reason, as a bike tried to run between two lanes of moving automobiles. The other moving accident occured when, on a 2 lane road, I signalled a right turn, with no oncoming traffic in the right hand lane. I checked the mirror, and there was no bike in sight. I turned my attention to the soi I was turning into. As the front of my vehicle entered the soi, a bike ran into the right rear fender of my car. Where the FLICK he came from, I have no idea. I stopped, and as I opened the door, he backed off, maneuvered around my car, and sped off.

Now, none of the actions committed by these 4 motorbikes are things that I've seen cars do. The Thai drivers of 4-wheeled vehicles do, for the most part, suck. But their ineptitude is primarily displayed by an inability to drive at any faster than the average ox cart. They just cannot handle cars and pickups. But I don't see them doing things that directly cause accidents. Nor do I see anywhere even close to the number of traffic laws, or common sense, that I see by motorbikes.

As the original poster said, bikes come into traffic from all sides, most often without looking in any direction but where they are heading. They constantly try to pass moving cars, on two lane roads, on whichever side they deem to be most open to them. This is strictly against the law in any country. A motorbike should ALWAYS operate in line with moving cars when there is only a single lane in each direction. Here, they are almost constantly to be found trying to pass you on one side or the other, when traffic slows at all.

Motorbikes are the single greatest threat to traffic safety in Pattaya, with no other motor vehicle even CLOSE! And the infrequent "check points" set up by the useless MIB are, obviously, totally ineffective in improving traffic safety. All they do is check for helmets, and, as noted earlier, the Thais either avoid the checkpoints, or temporarily pop on a "toy" plastic helmet, which couldn't protect the driver or passenger from a head slap by a strong woman! Have you EVER seen a Thai motorbike driver pulled over, other than at a "checkpoint" for driving without a helmet, or for an obvious violation of traffic safety? I haven't.

And it would be so very easy to make significant progress, if they really wanted to. Some steps:

1. Begin by announcing on radio, TV, and in newspapers that ALL traffic laws will be enforced agianst both cars and motorbikes.

2. Make some changes to the punishments for violations by motorbike drivers, including:

- Upgrade the minimum requirements (if there are any!) for the "structural safety" of helmets.

- Anyone driving without a helmet, or carrying a passenger without one, shall have his/her bike impounded until the driver retrieves it, wearing a legal helmet, by paying a fine of 500 baht. (If the passenger is a child under the age of 12, the fine shall be doubled.)

- Anyone driving around a moving 4-wheeled vehicle in the same lane of traffic shall be fined 500 baht.

- Anyone making an unsafe turn on a motorbike (i.e., not checking oncoming traffic in the turn lane) shall be fined 500 baht.

- Anyone moving blocking a turn lane when traffic is stopped, thereby preventing 4-wheeled vehicles from legally using that turn lane, shall be fined 500 baht.

- Anyone driving a motorbike without a license shall have the motorbike impounded, and shall be fined 500 baht. The motorbike must be retrieved by a licensed motorbike driver.

(OK. Those are just for STARTERS on changes to the laws, fines, and punishments!)

3. Assign a force of Motorbike Police to be on constant patrol in the entire Pattaya area (INCLUDING EAST OF SUKHUMVIT), and to actually TAKE ACTION when bikes violate any of the laws.

4. Post stationary police, with motorbikes at the ready, at various points in and around the city, and its' suburbs, to ovserve and enforce traffic laws. Randomly rotate these traffic police positions.

5. Reprimand police who fail to effectively enforce the laws; with a provision for dismissal if an officer exceeds 3 such reprimands.

6. Institute and enforce a mandatory dismissal, and a 1-year jail sentence for any officer found guilty of accepting a bribe.

Do all of the above, and I guarantee you that the streets of Pattaya will be significantly safer, as well as significantly less infuriating for people who have spent most of their lives in civilized countries. You know who they are, don't you? The're the ones who bring most of the money into this place!

Oh, and here's a silly, related idea. Use the funds collected in those fines to actually make an effort to consistently and effectively maintain the "war zone" roads in this "tropical paradise, resort city"!

Now that I've publicly proposed all of these constructive suggestions to improve both the flow and safety of traffic in Pattaya, I'm sure that the authorities will take action to institute some, if not all of them. Aren't you?

I would like to add these rules/fines:

7. Any long-haired motorcycle taxi driver that does not tuck their long ratty hair INSIDE their required helmet, shall immediately be stoned to death.

8. Any motorcycle taxi driver that has not showered within the last month shall be fined 250 baht.

9. Any motorcycle taxi driver that has clean unblemished skin will immediately be relieved of duty.

10. Any motorcycle taxi driver that, upon sitting on the seat, leaves only 4" for the passenger to sit on, must be put on a weight-reduction plan, by eating a diet of only morning-glory, until they are under 200 pounds.

11. Any motorcycle taxi driver that waits in front of markets or stores, but does not have the sense to have a basket on the motorcycle for the passenger to transport purchases/other items, shall be fined 1,000 baht.

12. Any motorcycle taxi driver that says, "no, you pay me too much..." shall be relieved of duty at once.

13. Any motorcycle taxi driver that upon hearing a destination, BREAKS OUT INTO EXTREME LAUGHTER, for no apparent reason, shall be fined 300 baht. Example, "I want to go to Jomtien beach..." Reaction from driver: "HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...."

14. Any motorcycle taxi driver that does not have at least 100 baht in small change, on them, at all times, she take riders free, wherever they want to go.

15. Any motorcycle taxi driver that has a vest that says they are from "THROB/SPLASH" bar, shall be fined 100 baht.

16. Any motorcycle taxi driver that uses their cell phone while driving a farang passenger, shall be paid double fare, for bravery/stupidity.

17. Any motorcycle taxi driver that tells you, "i have to stop for gas", in the middle of a ride, doesn't get paid anything for the ride.

[plasticpig]

He who seeks power should never gain it.

Edited November 15, 2007 by plasticpig

[Humphrey Bear]

Sorry I think Saigon has it much worse.......

Having lived and worked in HCMC (Saigon) I must disagree.

Because it is almost entirely motorcy's and taxis during the day, most traffic is going at the same speed in the same direction. It may look chaotic, but when you're in among it you feel safe. I used to pillion on several different motorcy's there - I will not get on one in Pattaya.

Also large trucks were forbidden in the city during the day - all had to come in between 6 pm and 6 am. This caused a couple of hours of chaos, but then things quietened down again.

And the girls looked real good in their conical hats and Ao Sams.

Also the size of bikes was limited to 125 or 150cc, so none of these nutters on superbikes.

[begsaresponse]

name='begsaresponse' date='2007-11-14 19:23:54' post='1650778']

And the parking of those who rent out motorcy is crazy. They should be forced to house them in a storage area away from streets where there are walk ways. And there are few enough of them, but thats another topic.

Whats your opinion?

I bet you would misster ploice man.

Can't think what you mean.....but that is another topic!

[Phil Conners]

Motorcy drivers do not hold the monopoly on bad driving skills, four wheel drivers are just as bad.

Particularly Fortuner drivers!!!! They truly drive as the roads were made just for them.

[luumak]

I no longer have any feeling toward anyone involved in an accident. I just laugh. someone killed, 5555. I have been struck many times by cars on soi Bukhao and soi Diana in particular.

Everyone driving desrve each other and foreigners are at least as bad/agressive drivers as locals. I often see motorcyclists break driving laws right in front of police.

How about big stupid trucks driven by farang on soi Bukhao and the even more stupid farang on the 400++cc bikes, murder on two wheels.

Edited November 15, 2007 by luumak

[Mobi]

One of the problems in Pattaya - which I find even more extreme than Bangkok - is that due to the sheer number of bikes, when you are driving, there are never any periods, however brief, when the roads are clear, and pedestrians can cross, or car drivers can exit from side Sois, or enter sub Sois etc.

There is no 'natural flow of traffic', whereby a red traffic light will create a small period where other traffic and pedestrians can go about their business. You may be waiting to turn right out of a Soi, and you wait for the traffic to clear, and eventually it does, either because of a red light before or past the point at which you are waiting. But can you pull out or cross? no - because there will always be motorbikes, out of' sync' with the general traffic flow which will get in your way. This is one of the reasons that car and truck drivers are so aggressive as far as bikes are concerned, and why there are so many accidents involving bikes. You can literally never get away from them and go where you want to go by obeying the rules of the road, and if you wait for a clear bit of safe road - you may well wait forever.

I'm not blaming anyone, and I don't have a solution. I'm just stating a problem. There's just too many bikes and they create many frustrating problems for other motorists and pedestrians alike. Be they farang or Thai.

[begsaresponse]

Do you think that people just don't care about motorcy accidents or is it a serious case of under reporting in relation to the numbers maimed and killed each year?

[innovator]

Motorbike accidents create revenue for the local hospitals, clinics, and graveyards. So, there is a rhyme and reason attached to this chaotic driving environment.....it is intentionally designed to create revenue. Same with the loose bricks on the sidewalks (twist an ankle), hanging live electrical wires (instant shock and death), motorbike drivers holding joust-like metal poles in their hands as they race down the road (body piercing for free/impaling objects), broken glass pieces of all shapes and sizes lying around for cutting, bricks and sticks and stones for instant clubbing and on and on and on....

A true definition of a Family Resort....

Edited November 15, 2007 by innovator

[Humphrey Bear]

Do you think that people just don't care about motorcy accidents or is it a serious case of under reporting in relation to the numbers maimed and killed each year?

I have searched everywhere that I know for reliable reported statistics on Thai traffic accidents / cause of death / so on - but without success.

A couple of research papers seem to have tried the same, but again with serious comments on the official figures (Official cause of death - HIV=2%; RTA=2% - verbal reports from hospitals HIV=10%; RTA>5%). These are three-to-five year-old figures but all I could find.

[Gimbo]

A friend was in in hospital up in Norway a few years ago, doing a ...don't know the english word for it - the lense of the eye transplant.

They where all set to go but the surgeion told him they had to postpone for a few hours as they did not have the suitable "replacement" for him yet. But he should not worry. As the surgeon said: "It's raining, we should have a motorcycle accident victim in any time soon!"

True story or not, well, it gave him a laugh, and he sold his motorcycle shortly after, he he

[JSixpack]

> There are far too many motorcy driving around the streets/pavements.

No, there are too many cars, esp. driven by old stupid farangs. Get outta the

way, old farang! Always poking along looking at bar girls or stopping to yell at

one or let one out . . . .

Too many baht buses, too.

> Going the right way/the wrong way/any way they like. They pull out

> with no reference to other traffic. If they can't drive straight on

> because of something like a red light, they simply turn left,cross

> two lanes of traffic and turn left allowing them to drive straight

> on.

Ain't it great? Get yerself a bike and you can get somewhere a lot

faster!

> Well I mean, come on how rediculous is this?

>

Not at all. Besides efficient, it's great fun, too.

> Helmets are worn only to avoid being fined by the police. As soon as

> they pass "check point" where there might be a policeman the helmet

> is off and fingers run through the hair. Not all have a licence or

> have insurance. Now I don't care what nationality they are but

> motorcy drivers are a law unto themselves. And I am shocked that

> more are not killed on road every day.

Right!

And they die doing what they want to do. It's not your business. Are you

just suffering PMS at the moment?

>

> The way they crowd the traffic lights waiting for the "count down"

> shows a lack of consideration for other people on the road.

No, the other people don't need consideration at that point. The light

changes and the bikes are off and out of the way ASAP for you to poke

along.

> And for

> all on coming traffic. And yes you might have guessed but I drive a

> vehicle with four wheels.

No shit!

> But today I was shocked one motorcy driver

> gave a hand signal...now it was not of the two finger variety but a

> proper right turn hand signal. Now that was a first I have ever seen

> in Pattaya!

You don't need to see hand signals, bikes got blinkers too. Seems you're

from the era when there were no blinkers and all drivers had to give

hand signals, right? Lemme see, think I studied those once for a

driving test . . . .

>

> Well I have had my rant which has been a long time coming. Whats your opinion?

You got it, pal.

[soihok]

Sorry I think Saigon has it much worse.......

Agreed.

Having lived in quite a few Asian countries,,the motorbike is a way of life,,,,it will not change until oil runs out and by that time people are back on bikes or donkeys.

Now theres an opening ,,!

I cant fault motorbikes,,,,,transport for the masses. Far more friendly than three litre gas guts.

If there is a complaint to be made it is against the mentality of the rider,,the motorbike is just a machine.....bless its soul .