Moving My Family From Uk To Los

[Sunbelt Asia]

Boris,

Correct I would not like to compete head to head with some of the BIG players with 100 million Baht or more being invested in communications, etc.

I just got this in a e-mail from a newsletter. Its distributed to the general public so hope its ok to copy and paste. Now I'm going to be called biased but GEES this is so so full of bullocks. I have to say something.

The Thai Mafia

==============

SOME of our readers, ###### bent on buying a business in the

kingdom have asked us about the existence of a Thai Mafia.

Sure there is a Thai mafia, just ask anybody in the

construction industry here. And there's a "poo yai" in every

city, town and village throughout the country, who controls

how things are done in his little patch.

If you plan to go into business here, you can expect the

local mafia head honcho will be paying you a visit and will

expect contributions to his son's college education fund ...

or whatever.

Naturally there is "tea money" to be paid to the cops as well

and a stream of other folks to be paid off, not to mention

the relatives of any Thai you might get linked up with.

Like the "beer bar bride" issue, there are always exceptions

to every situation and there are some farangs out there that

have done very well with their businesses here in Thailand.

But on the whole it is a disaster waiting to happen.

I wish I had a buck for every hard luck story I've heard of

expats getting ripped off by their Thai business partners or

other Thais they have trusted.

My advice to anyone thinking of buying a bar -- or any other

business in Thailand -- is don't do it!! Far better to invest

your money wisely back home, come over here and live off

the interest for a while and have a good time.

_________________________________________________

Thai mafia? LOL. What? A go go bar pays to the police on average 5- 10K per month. That's it. Never no mafia. Most bar owners feel its cheaper than having security.

Construction. If you don't want to get a proper building permit and save 45 days. Sure I've heard of cases where you might pay but you save more by doing this, than paying rent while the building is sitting idle, with no work being done.

If you are building a business in the middle of no where....yes their are village mayors. One of the posters on this board, was telling me this afternoon, she buys the village chief a bottle of Chang every night, while they are building their home. Big deal..one beer.

I only know of two business transfers that we've been involved with, that a foreigner didn't have total control over his investment in a legal way. One in fact is a poster on this board and wanted to buy it for his wife and put in her name. He understood it was throw away money and accepted it. The other case was a guy who bought a Internet cafe and gave it to a Thai couple with the stipulation 25% of the profits every year would go to a children's charity. In both cases they were gifts.

But in every other case and their have been hundreds and hundreds, I have always seen a foreigners be in control by being the managing director and using other safeguard strategies. If someone is putting their investment in a Thai wife or GF, heck yes... 99% chance of losing it all. But why would someone do this unless it was a gift? Do I hear stories of people not being so smart? Around once a month ....but most people are not dumb. Even if they trust and love, I'm happy to say, most have their feet on the ground.

www.sunbeltasia.com

[smile]

Good advice? Boris may I enquire as to what you do. Do you live in LOS? I really do admire all of you that try to stop people making life changing decisions on a whim but you rarely seem to offer constructive critisism. Why is it so strange that a family could fall in love with a culture???? To be very frank. I am absolutely sick to death with the politics, the taxes and the miserable ##### that frequent our beloved isle. I appreciate there will be negatives to counteract the positive of living in LOS but ultimately the people are so much NICER. In that sense I really hope that Greg's analogy doesn't come true as I would hate to think of LOS becoming like Spain and God forbid the USA. What am I risking in taking a year out to make sure? 3% in stamp duty should we return. That is only if real estate stagnates and does not rise or fall. You know where my bet lies.

Thanks Angie, Dickie and I have had correspondence with Greg previously and will hopefully again. I am fully aware of the fact that he is making a living at brokering business. Is there something wrong with this?

[Dickie]

Ignore all the "look how streetwise I am" crap that's being spouted and do it.

[boris]

Good advice? Boris may I enquire as to what you do. Do you live in LOS? I really do admire all of you that try to stop people making life changing decisions on a whim but you rarely seem to offer constructive critisism. Why is it so strange that a family could fall in love with a culture???? To be very frank. I am absolutely sick to death with the politics, the taxes and the miserable ##### that frequent our beloved isle. I appreciate there will be negatives to counteract the positive of living in LOS but ultimately the people are so much NICER. In that sense I really hope that Greg's analogy doesn't come true as I would hate to think of LOS becoming like Spain and God forbid the USA. What am I risking in taking a year out to make sure? 3% in stamp duty should we return. That is only if real estate stagnates and does not rise or fall. You know where my bet lies.

Thanks Angie, Dickie and I have had correspondence with Greg previously and will hopefully again. I am fully aware of the fact that he is making a living at brokering business. Is there something wrong with this?

Smile.

I sensed some time ago that you had made up your mind regardless of what advice you received.Best of luck then and keep us informed of how you get along: I genuinely wish you well even though you are muleheaded!If you can accept just one piece of advice, picking up a point made in your post, don't suffer from the illusion that people in Thailand are so much nicer.They aren't.

P.S Don't sell the UK house

P.P.S Some parts if Thailand, specifically Pattaya, are already like Majorca.

[Up2U]

On the early morning news today it was rumoured that the Bank of Thailand will raise the basic interest rate by 25 basis points to 1.50%. This is another good reason to keep your money in the Isle of Man or Channel Islands - 4.50% instead.

Nowhere seems to have good rates of interest for investment, those with higher rates have dodgy forex rates. Pound is high at the moment, can really only slip. Hopefully only a little.

I rent out my house in UK. Have arrangement with Inland revenue that I am considered tax-exempt for the rental income. This as I already had a long history of working overseas. If you do not have this FICO number, then the letting agent must withhold 30% of your rental income. Added to their fees (say 12.50%) and you ain't getting much. But you are still in the housing spiral, however flat it may be.

I have not read the whole of this thread - may be someone has already given the same advice, but I really recommend that you do not sell up and dig into capital.

Your daughters' school fees will be something like 100,000 baht each to register at a good international school, then 10,000 to 20,000 per term minimum to be educated. If you contact the IOB scheme, for investment in Thailand, you may come up with a winner. But it takes a long time to reach completion with these people. Your alternative is to find a Thai partner and set up in business with him, but he will want (legally) 51% of the company. (Actually minimum of seven people for a registered company, but most with very minor holdings. Or you could go work for Loxley / other on wages. Small wages.

I wish you well, but please store away your parachute for when you need it. Do not use everything to survive in Thailand, dreams can turn into nightmares.

[boris]

I rent out my house in UK. Have arrangement with Inland revenue that I am considered tax-exempt for the rental income. This as I already had a long history of working overseas. If you do not have this FICO number, then the letting agent must withhold 30% of your rental income. Added to their fees (say 12.50%) and you ain't getting much. But you are still in the housing spiral, however flat it may be.

Excellent advice but Smile's not interested in taking it.

On a point of detail while your UK letting agent does not have to withhold tax on rental income, you are presumably subject to tax on the profit (i.e income less deductible expenses) on letting out your property.

[boris]

Boris,

Correct I would not like to compete head to head with some of the BIG players with 100 million Baht or more being invested in communications, etc.

I just got this in a e-mail from a newsletter. Its distributed to the general public so hope its ok to copy and paste. Now I'm going to be called biased but GEES this is so so full of bullocks. I have to say something.

The Thai Mafia

==============

SOME of our readers, ###### bent on buying a business in the

kingdom have asked us about the existence of a Thai Mafia.

Sure there is a Thai mafia, just ask anybody in the

construction industry here. And there's a "poo yai" in every

city, town and village throughout the country, who controls

how things are done in his little patch.

If you plan to go into business here, you can expect the

local mafia head honcho will be paying you a visit and will

expect contributions to his son's college education fund ...

or whatever.

Naturally there is "tea money" to be paid to the cops as well

and a stream of other folks to be paid off, not to mention

the relatives of any Thai you might get linked up with.

Like the "beer bar bride" issue, there are always exceptions

to every situation and there are some farangs out there that

have done very well with their businesses here in Thailand.

But on the whole it is a disaster waiting to happen.

I wish I had a buck for every hard luck story I've heard of

expats getting ripped off by their Thai business partners or

other Thais they have trusted.

My advice to anyone thinking of buying a bar -- or any other

business in Thailand -- is don't do it!! Far better to invest

your money wisely back home, come over here and live off

the interest for a while and have a good time.

_________________________________________________

Thai mafia? LOL. What? A go go bar pays to the police on average 5- 10K per month. That's it. Never no mafia. Most bar owners feel its cheaper than having security.

Construction. If you don't want to get a proper building permit and save 45 days. Sure I've heard of cases where you might pay but you save more by doing this, than paying rent while the building is sitting idle, with no work being done.

If you are building a business in the middle of no where....yes their are village mayors. One of the posters on this board, was telling me this afternoon, she buys the village chief a bottle of Chang every night, while they are building their home. Big deal..one beer.

I only know of two business transfers that we've been involved with, that a foreigner didn't have total control over his investment in a legal way. One in fact is a poster on this board and wanted to buy it for his wife and put in her name. He understood it was throw away money and accepted it. The other case was a guy who bought a Internet cafe and gave it to a Thai couple with the stipulation 25% of the profits every year would go to a children's charity. In both cases they were gifts.

But in every other case and their have been hundreds and hundreds, I have always seen a foreigners be in control by being the managing director and using other safeguard strategies. If someone is putting their investment in a Thai wife or GF, heck yes... 99% chance of losing it all. But why would someone do this unless it was a gift? Do I hear stories of people not being so smart? Around once a month ....but most people are not dumb. Even if they trust and love, I'm happy to say, most have their feet on the ground.

www.sunbeltasia.com

There is I think a genuine issue with reliability and good faith of Thai partners in the larger businesses which is where most of my experience lies.This has been demonstrated time and time again pre and post crisis.The harmonious CP/Tesco arrangement was an exception, and there were good reasons for this.The rather foolish bulletin you quote and rightly dismiss on the" Thai mafia" is typical of the nonsense so many of the half-informed Western Thai experts propagate (though the advice on buying a bar is fair enough).However whether the business is large or small, I think the key issue is management quality and control.To be honest even the kind of small businesses the Pattaya riff-raff are interested in could be made to work profitably if well run.

[Up2U]

I don't think this applies to 'Smile', but it is common in Pattaya and Patong Beach that bar-flies think that because they know one side of the counter, they can successfully manage the other.

Bar business, go-go business is just that - a business. If you are not gifted in keeping your business and hobby separate, you can be riding for a fall. (Although I have known people who have made their hobby in to a successful business).

Usually it is easier to start-up and make a success of a new business in your own country, rather than in a country where you are not fully aware of the language, the customs, the business ethics (or is that an oxymoron?). But in LOS so many foreigners try to start businesses, citing the fact that Charlie-round-the-corner has made a good business, so why shouldn't they? (C-r-t-c was owner of five successful retail outlets in London before he came to LOS to be with his boyfriend). The failure rate for foreign-owned businesses in LOS must surely be among the highest in the world - now many businesses on your books, Indo-Siam?

[smile]

Boris, I am very keen to take any advice. Rightly or wrongly. We as a unit have decided there is much more to living than anything in the UK can offer. We live in an incredibly middle class village in Loughborough and we can see, every day, that suites a lot of people. We just do not fit in. All anybody seems interested in is keeping up with the neighbours. I am in IT. A network manager and, other than for my own interest, am absolutely sick of IT (Excuse the pun). We do disagree on selling property at this point in time but, hey, so what! We will keep a parachute of 98% of our realisable assets in an offshore investment account and live very realistically for up to a year. If this turns out to be the wrong move. What have we lost? I come back to the UK as a contract programmer and continue on. You must understand why I want to be there. I hope, above all else, that I will be in touch with you within the next year being able to say what a success it has been. If not then ???

You have not given me an answer to to the questions posed in my last post. Do you live there?

Thanks Boris

[smile]

Up2U and others. Cheers. I will not come to Thailand and buy a bar! From what I have gathered so far then property, manufacturing, logistics and exporting would seem to be the obviouse candidates. Although I appreciate the latter requires much red tape to be navigated.

Does anyone have a contact address for a trustworthy solicitor in Thailand from whom to seek advice regarding visas and offshore investment.

Thanks

[konangrit]

Hi smile,

I understand your concern about real estate prices not realising the returns they have in previous years, however I have to agree with other posters on this board that selling your property may not be the best way to proceed.

The amount of money you are likely to make on any downturn in the UK property market is really not worth the risk of selling your property.

I understand you wish to live in Thailand off a small percentage of the profit you will make from selling your home. Is it not possible to re-mortgage your home? The amount you spend whilst in Thailand on this should be recoverable by the amount you make on rent whilst away.

If you are determined to get out of the property market whilst its peaking I understand, but do invest it in the stock market. Something like a tracker link fund (FTSE).

Don't invest your money in Thailand. I do think that the stock market may out perform the property market in the west this year, so that is not a bad option.

Whatever you do I wish you all the best,

but please speak to a financial advisor. ( I am not one )

[astral]

Selling a property in the UK can cost you 2-3%.

[boris]

Boris, I am very keen to take any advice.have a Cambridge Rightly or wrongly. We as a unit have decided there is much more to living than anything in the UK can offer. We live in an incredibly middle class village in Loughborough and we can see, every day, that suites a lot of people. We just do not fit in. All anybody seems interested in is keeping up with the neighbours. I am in IT. A network manager and, other than for my own interest, am absolutely sick of IT (Excuse the pun). We do disagree on selling property at this point in time but, hey, so what! We will keep a parachute of 98% of our realisable assets in an offshore investment account and live very realistically for up to a year. If this turns out to be the wrong move. What have we lost? I come back to the UK as a contract programmer and continue on. You must understand why I want to be there. I hope, above all else, that I will be in touch with you within the next year being able to say what a success it has been. If not then ???

You have not given me an answer to to the questions posed in my last post. Do you live there?

Thanks Boris

Yes I do live in Thailand, and have done so for 15 years.I have been a significant player in the business scene here although as senior manager of a MNC rather than an entrepreneur (although have much experience of working closely with latter).I speak Thai, so I am told, rather well (though I have learnt never to believe farangs' assessment of their own Thai language proficiency unless vouched for by an educated Thai).I have a Thai wife.I have a Cambridge degree in Economics.

I see where you are coming from, a revolt against the insufferable boredom of lower middle class English life.Many of us have been there.After many years of expatriate life I now see that I underestimated many of the English strengths that seemed so smug and hateful in my youth.

Surely you must accept the overwhelming preponderance of advice not to sell your house.I would also avoid any kind of investment until you have been here at least a year or so.You might well be better off as an employee rather than an entrepreneur.I am sure all on this forum will be happy to give you support and advice.

In terms of professional help here (visas, lawyes etc) you would do no harm in calling in at the British Chamber of Commerce for a chat.No disrespect but I would avoid like the plague firms which specialise on helping newly arrived potential investors like yourself.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Spot the typo?

spotted both of 'em.

[lopburi3]

((cut))

All anybody seems interested in is keeping up with the neighbours.

((cut))

You have not given me an answer to to the questions posed in my last post. Do you live there?

Thanks Boris

If you do not think "keeping up with the neighbours" is a fact of life here you know very, very little.

You post that you like the culture and that we have given you no information but I counter that you do not have a clue of the culture. You may like it or you may not; but at this time you really do not know what is behind the smile.

We have tried to make you aware of things on the other side of those rose colored glasses that you may not see. Would it be responsible to do otherwise?