Teaching Without A Permit (continued)

[stickman]

You CAN get a work permit without a degree. I know of four people just off the top of my head, all are teachers. All do have formal teaching qualifications, but are degreeless.

[kenkannif]

^ Yes and here's how! Thing is getting the school to do this for you. Also there are ways around it by employing 'teachers' as an instructor or consultant!

I enjoy your website mate!

Tis possible to get a work permit without a degree:

It is not true that you MUST have a degree to get a work permit.  In think that current government policy DOES require that you have a degree to be a tecaher -including and English teacher.

There is a specific form and procedure at the work permit office that must be filled out for foreigners applying who have no University degree.  It must be signed by a company director.

The short of it is:  if you do not have a degree, then you want to bring as much documenttaion as you possibly can concerning what credentials and experience you do have.   If you have documentation showing that you have been to any technical certification courses (MSCE, or Cisco certification, or whatever) - bring it.   If possible, bring employment letters from employers covering at least the five most recent years - they need to identify the employer, the nature of its business, your job position, the dates held, what your job responsibilities were, and that your performed well - and be signed by the company CEO/President/Managing Director, on company letterhead - with stamps, seals, even notary apostilizations (if possible - but not required) - the Thai officials eat this stuff up.

Lacking a University degree, it is up to you to DOCUMENT that you have adequate actual work experience, and then your supervisor needs to certify thart he/she has reviewed your qualifications, finds you suitable to perform the function, and that a Thai cannot reasonably be expected to be hired to do the job instead of you.

Good luck!

Steve Sykes

Managing Director

Indo-Siam Group

Bangkok

[email protected]

www.thaistartup.com

[Pudgimelon]

^ But as mentioned sometimes it's teach without a WP...or.....or....or....what?

Once again a lot of schools CAN'T issue any more WPs whether they wanted to or not. And once you do have a WP quite often it won't actually (100%) cover you to do your job!

And it's not finding a job without a work permit (you generally get the work permit AFTER you've started teaching not before) it's getting the WP once you have the job that's the problem for various reasons!

Will you have to teach without a work permit at some point or another?

Unfortunately yes!

Well the answer to the question: "Teach without a WP ... or...or....or...what?" is simply:

Don't come.

If you don't have a work permit and the appropriate visa, then you are living and working in Thailand illegally. Period.

People can justify and curse and b'tch all they want, but the plain fact of the matter is that working without a permit is illegal. Period.

Now, of course, like most immigration laws that apply to farang in Thailand, 99% of the time, nobody is really going to care if you break the law.

But it's still illegal. Even if nothing "bad" will happen to you if the Ministry raids your school (do they ever do this? I've never heard about an actual case of the Ministry actually caring about something like this), and even if you can "get away with it indefinitely, it's STILL illegal.

Why does it matter then? Here, let me illustrate my point with an example:

Let's say you were some Mexican janitor and you decided to go to America to find a better job. You cross the border illegally and start looking for work. Of course, lots of places will hire you, so finding a job is no problem, but consider this: What kinds of places would hire an illegal worker? Would those places provide benefits like health care, pension, and a living wage?? Would those places provide opporunities for professional development?? Would those places treat the worker with respect and provide the worker with a supportive work environment??? Doubtful.

Likewise, schools that willingly hire "illegal" teachers are essentially half-assing their staffing requirements. Those schools are less likely to provide decent pay, benefits and administrative support to ALL their employees. After all, why should they pay out the extra money to get qualified teachers when there's a steady stream of unqualified labor who'll do the job on the cheap.

Now let's say you're that Mexican janitor again and you go to American embassy and tell them: "Hey, I'd like to come to America. I don't have special skills or certification, and I don't have any experience, but I figured I could just 'wing it' in front of a 6th grade Science classroom during the week and tutor Spanish on the weekends. Can I come in?"

What do you think their answer would be???

Certainly it is true that there are a good number of credentialled, experienced teachers who can't get a work permit because their school is maxed out. But it is ALSO true that there are a good number of half-ass backpackers and itinerants who come to Thailand with unreasonable expectations about being handed a job the minute they walk off the plane.

These fly-by-night teachers may not be the majority of non-WP workers, but they are certainly common enough to cause a ###### of a lot of chaos in the Thai educational system. I bet that almost all kids who are enrolled in an English program experience at least one "lost year" before they graduate. And by "lost year" I mean that time period where they have to put up with adjusting to a new teacher three or four times in the same year.

If a person expects (or thinks they deserve) a job in a school, but doesn't think they need (or doesn't even see the need for) qualifications and the TRAINING required to get those credentials, then he/she has an unrealistic understanding of what it means to be a teacher.

So, any time I hear someone say they want to teach, but they don't want to put the WORK in that's necessary to LEARN HOW to teach, well..... that sets off my BS Alarm. It raises a lot of questions, like: why do they want to teach in the first place? why do they want to come all the way to Thailand to teach?? if they want to teach so bad, why don't they stay in their home country, get schooling and teach there???

Of course, we all know the answer. They are coming to Thailand for other reasons, and see teaching as a means to pay for the trip. And while many of these people turn out to be wonderful teachers, there are enough bad apples mixed in to spoil the whole barrel.

So to sum it all up for those who don't like to read extended rants:

1) Schools who hire illegal workers are often trying to maximize their profits at the expense of ALL teachers and students alike. They get some poor 3-month-tourist-visa-running border-hopping schmuck to stand in front of a class and pretend like he's got f'king clue, just so they can call it an "international-ish" program and charge the parents five times what it costs to put the kid in a Thai program with real teachers.

What this does on a large scale is depress the wages of every farang teacher in Thailand. If these schools actually had to compete for the smaller pool of qualified, Work-Permitible teachers, they'd have to actually start paying a REAL wage, with benefits, health care and heck, even administrative support tossed in there.

2) If someone is willing to fly halfway around the world just to be an illegal alien, chances are they don't see TEACHING as a primary priority in their life. There are plenty of volunteer and part-time opportunities back home (like the Boy Scouts or an urban youth center program) for someone who CARED about teaching young people, but didn't have a degree or certification needed to get a real teaching job.

So I would tend to doubt the motivations of a person who desparately wants to fly 13,000 miles to get a job, but then doesn't want to expend the time and effort necessary to LEARN HOW to do that job properly (and therefore recieve all the documents needed to get a WP). It's suspect to say the least.

So again, I say, if you can't get a work permit, don't come.

[Lost gold]

If you don't have a work permit and the appropriate visa, then you are living and working in Thailand illegally.  Period.

People can justify and curse and b'tch all they want, but the plain fact of the matter is that working without a permit is illegal.  Period.

Now, of course, like most immigration laws that apply to farang in Thailand, 99% of the time, nobody is really going to care if you break the law.

But it's still illegal.  Even if nothing "bad" will happen to you if the Ministry raids your school (do they ever do this?  I've never heard about an actual case of the Ministry actually caring about something like this), and even if you can "get away with it indefinitely, it's STILL illegal.

Why does it matter then?  Here, let me illustrate my point with an example:

Let's say you were some Mexican janitor and you decided to go to America to find a better job.  You cross the border illegally and start looking for work.  Of course, lots of places will hire you, so finding a job is no problem, but consider this:  What kinds of places would hire an illegal worker?  Would those places provide benefits like health care, pension, and a living wage??  Would those places provide opporunities for professional development??  Would those places treat the worker with respect and provide the worker with a supportive work environment???  Doubtful.

Likewise, schools that willingly hire "illegal" teachers are essentially half-assing their staffing requirements.  Those schools are less likely to provide decent pay, benefits and administrative support to ALL their employees.  After all, why should they pay out the extra money to get qualified teachers when there's a steady stream of unqualified labor who'll do the job on the cheap.

Now let's say you're that Mexican janitor again and you go to American embassy and tell them:  "Hey, I'd like to come to America.  I don't have special skills or certification, and I don't have any experience, but I figured I could just 'wing it' in front of a 6th grade Science classroom during the week and tutor Spanish on the weekends.  Can I come in?"

What do you think their answer would be???

Certainly it is true that there are a good number of credentialled, experienced teachers who can't get a work permit because their school is maxed out.  But it is ALSO true that there are a good number of half-ass backpackers and itinerants who come to Thailand with unreasonable expectations about being handed a job the minute they walk off the plane.

These fly-by-night teachers may not be the majority of non-WP workers, but they are certainly common enough to cause a ###### of a lot of chaos in the Thai educational system.  I bet that almost all kids who are enrolled in an English program experience at least one "lost year" before they graduate.  And by "lost year" I mean that time period where they have to put up with adjusting to a new teacher three or four times in the same year.

If a person expects (or thinks they deserve) a job in a school, but doesn't think they need (or doesn't even see the need for) qualifications and the TRAINING required to get those credentials, then he/she has an unrealistic understanding of what it means to be a teacher.

So, any time I hear someone say they want to teach, but they don't want to put the WORK in that's necessary to LEARN HOW to teach, well..... that sets off my BS Alarm.  It raises a lot of questions, like:  why do they want to teach in the first place?  why do they want to come all the way to Thailand to teach??  if they want to teach so bad, why don't they stay in their home country, get schooling and teach there???

Of course, we all know the answer.  They are coming to Thailand for other reasons, and see teaching as a means to pay for the trip.  And while many of these people turn out to be wonderful teachers, there are enough bad apples mixed in to spoil the whole barrel.

So to sum it all up for those who don't like to read extended rants:

1) Schools who hire illegal workers are often trying to maximize their profits at the expense of ALL teachers and students alike.  They get some poor 3-month-tourist-visa-running border-hopping schmuck to stand in front of a class and pretend like he's got f'king clue, just so they can call it an "international-ish" program and charge the parents five times what it costs to put the kid in a Thai program with real teachers.

What this does on a large scale is depress the wages of every farang teacher in Thailand.  If these schools actually had to compete for the smaller pool of qualified, Work-Permitible teachers, they'd have to actually start paying a REAL wage, with benefits, health care and heck, even administrative support tossed in there.

2) If someone is willing to fly halfway around the world just to be an illegal alien, chances are they don't see TEACHING as a primary priority in their life.  There are plenty of volunteer and part-time opportunities back home (like the Boy Scouts or an urban youth center program) for someone who CARED about teaching young people, but didn't have a degree or certification needed to get a real teaching job.

So I would tend to doubt the motivations of a person who desparately wants to fly 13,000 miles to get a job, but then doesn't want to expend the time and effort necessary to LEARN HOW to do that job properly (and therefore recieve all the documents needed to get a WP).  It's suspect to say the least.

So again, I say, if you can't get a work permit, don't come.

So Pudgie you come to Thailand, and get a fookin teachers job!.... right or wrong?, you've worked at some two bit sex tourist language school and a two bit English program school?.. right or wrong?

Awaiting your reply.

[Ijustwannateach]

Ah, dear ol' Pudgi has discovered Thaivisa... well, I'm sure he'll make as much of a hit over here as on ajarn.

I believe (correct me if I'm wrong, dear Pudge) that YOU managed to get your first WP because you were working at a sweatshop like ECC where they take the cost of bribing the ministry for the WP out in terms of paying you next to nothing? That's one way to do it, I suppose.

Here's a hint for you: work places lie. I've never yet accepted a job that didn't *promise* me a work permit, and so far only my current job has actually delivered (that's why I'm still here).

And no, I didn't read most of your rant.

"Steven"

[kenkannif]

Pudgi,

You're living in a different Thailand to a lot of us. While you're post has some merits, truly it's not quite as simple as that is it? Can you honestly say you've never worked here without a work permit? Never taught off premises where you work permit wouldn't cover you? Never taught a subject that wasn't covered by your work permit etc.? Come on!

[Begs]

Pudgi,

You're living in a different Thailand to a lot of us. While you're post has some merits, truly it's not quite as simple as that is it? Can you honestly say you've never worked here without a work permit? Never taught off premises where you work permit wouldn't cover you? Never taught a subject that wasn't covered by your work permit etc.? Come on!

Why would anyone want to work teaching English without a work permit?

Especially when if you do not have a work permit you can be arrested, detained, deported and blacklisted......................

Is the money that good that people risk arrest to come from English speaking countries to teach in Thailand?

[DJ Pat]

Is the money that good that people risk arrest to come from English speaking countries to teach in Thailand?

Is the money that good that people risk arrest to come from English speaking countries to teach in Thailand?

Why do you REALLY want to come to Thailand?

[Begs]

20- 25 years ago Japan was a good place to go and Teach English, i knew people that where making really good money, much more than they could make in their own country...................

Maybe English Teachers in Bangkok are raking the money in the same as they did in Japan a few decades ago............

But is 1000 - 1500 Pounds a week worth going to Jail for, or is it more money than that?

I think you should take lower wages and stay in the Uk or US, wherever you come from.

Big Money Teaching jobs in Thailand must be a real attraction, the type of thing that will set you up for life, but is it worth getting arrested for?

How much do you guys get paid in that risky job that could get you arrested, detained, deported and blacklisted?

Just curious.

[Pudgimelon]

So Pudgie you come to Thailand, and get a fookin teachers job!.... right or wrong?, you've worked at some two bit sex tourist language school and a two bit English program school?.. right or wrong?

Awaiting your reply.

Lost Gold, wrong and wrong.

I believe (correct me if I'm wrong, dear Pudge) that YOU managed to get your first WP because you were working at a sweatshop like ECC where they take the cost of bribing the ministry for the WP out in terms of paying you next to nothing?

You're wrong.

I worked part-time at ECC just for the fun of it and to gain some additonal experience. But it certainly wasn't a "source of income" in any real way. Also, I didn't find ECC to be a "sweatshop". It was a nice place to work and the staff there was genuine, supportive and friendly. I enjoyed my time there immensely. But I didn't start working at ECC until after I'd been in Thailand for several months because I didn't even KNOW about ECC until I moved into my new house near the Mall.

Here's a hint for you: work places lie. I've never yet accepted a job that didn't *promise* me a work permit, and so far only my current job has actually delivered (that's why I'm still here).

Every place I've worked for has given me a WP and/or followed through on every promise they made. Like I've said before, it's your own ###### fault for not being more selective in the types of jobs you accept, but then again, as the expression goes: Beggars can't be choosers....

Pudgi, You're living in a different Thailand to a lot of us. While you're post has some merits, truly it's not quite as simple as that is it? Can you honestly say you've never worked here without a work permit? Never taught off premises where you work permit wouldn't cover you? Never taught a subject that wasn't covered by your work permit etc.? Come on!

Maybe I'm living in a "different Thailand" or may I just took the time to plan ahead and get my sh't together BEFORE I came here.

I got my first job in Thailand while still back in the States. I had decided to move to Thailand, but then waited a year to save money for the trip and do some important research and planning. So I had plenty of time to look for jobs, conduct email interviews and find a school that suited me.

Of course it was relatively easy for me to find a good teaching job since I had a lot of relevent experience on my resume and a degree. I could have gone the technology route and gone to work for some Thai IT company, but I'd been doing that for years in the States already and was looking for a change of pace.

The first school I worked for was a very exclusive and expensive pre-K program and therefore they did extensive background checks, demanded a lot of documentation, and required a lot of training, observation, and evaluation. The first month I was there, I didn't get paid (since I did not have a Work Permit), and merely observed the classes, discussed teaching methods with the other teachers and attended the professional development meetings and lectures they hosted for the teachers.

It was a great learning experience and I enjoyed it a lot. The school handled all my paperwork, as promised, and once I had everything all sorted out and the parents had been thoroughly reassured of my quality and professionalism, I was given a class of my own to manage. Again it was great fun and I enjoyed it a lot. That's not to say it wasn't hard work. I had to do a lot of documentation, observation and research, but after so many years of troglodyte IT work (stuffed in a server closet at midnight trying to sort out a mess of Cat-5 cables is not exactly a "people-person" job), it was a very refreshing change of pace.

Plus I really enjoyed the research as it dove-tailed nicely into the kind of research I had been doing during my doctoral studies. Of course, that was Philosophy, but I was a big fan of Dewey and Piaget in college and it was nice to reread their stuff and then put it into PRACTICAL application.

My current job has been amazingly efficient about the whole work permit process. "Amazingly", because it's just about the only thing they do right around here.

But my visa and work permit was due to expire last week and it was a non-event half-day trip to immigration to get it renewed. In fact, I really didn't need to go at all since the only thing I did was stick my head in the door once so that the school rep could point at me and say, "that's him". Guess the official still wanted to verify my passport photo actually belonged to me. But other than that, I didn't do anything besides sign my name on a bunch of photocopies. Piece of cake, really. Don't know why so many people freak out about the whole visa/WP process. If you BELONG in a classroom and can PROVE IT, then it's really not a problem getting one.

Especially when if you do not have a work permit you can be arrested, detained, deported and blacklisted...Is the money that good that people risk arrest to come from English speaking countries to teach in Thailand?

Dude, I've NEVER heard of anyone getting arrested or deported for failing to have a work permit. And I highly doubt the existence of a "blacklist". It sounds to me like you've been listening to too much barstool paranoia.

The worst thing that would probably happen to you is that you might, and I repeat MIGHT, have to get a real work permit and/or find another job. But arrested?? Phfffffttt.....go shovel that hype somewhere else.

Again, my reasons for discouraging people from working without a permit have nothing to do with any consequences they might face. Because, essentially, there are no personal consequences to working without a permit. Lots of people do it and very few get "burned" in any real way (and more likely than not, they got "burned" because of other factors, not the WP).

The reason people shouldn't work without a permit is because it encourages the schools to underpay teachers and it encourages non-education-oriented people to "wing it" as a teacher when really they have no business in a classroom.

[Marmite the Dog]

Phew, lucky for you, you're so perfect Pudgie.

As others have commented, you'll feel right at home here amongst the other anally retentive characters.

[Ijustwannateach]

Pudgi- you're the one who's admitted to working for ECC in Thailand.

Begs seems to be hot after teachers. A resident teacher baiting troll? He seems to be a master baiter.

"Steven"

[kenkannif]

Pudgi,

You're living in a different Thailand to a lot of us. While you're post has some merits, truly it's not quite as simple as that is it? Can you honestly say you've never worked here without a work permit? Never taught off premises where you work permit wouldn't cover you? Never taught a subject that wasn't covered by your work permit etc.? Come on!

Why would anyone want to work teaching English without a work permit?

Especially when if you do not have a work permit you can be arrested, detained, deported and blacklisted......................

Is the money that good that people risk arrest to come from English speaking countries to teach in Thailand?

Well I don't think anyone WANTS to work here without a WP, but the way the system works here (as Pudgi points out he worked here without a WP initially) most of the time you don't have a choice. Most schools due to the transient nature of a lot of teachers here will not even begin (or even think about beginning) the process until you've served (teaching in affect illegally) at least 3 month probation. It took me 9 months to obtain my WP.

I'm not saying it's right, or wrong. But the teachers shouldn't really be blamed as much as the schools (and to an extent the MoE). I spoke to a Thai lady from a school last week and she couldn't understand that teachers DON'T like to do runs every month or so, apparently it's a mai pen rai situation (we earn thatmuch more than Thai teachers where's the hassle in doing a border run every month or so?).

Please show me where you've heard of teachers being deported for not having a WP? I've only heard of one instance since I've been here. Like I mentioned in a previous post some schools CAN'T issue any more work permits, a lot of teachers that do have work permits are not covered to teach where they do, or teach what they do (teach). Again blame the MoE for making things so ###### difficult for teachers, schools and students a like. It's one of those things that perpetuates itself, too difficult to be legit, well Imm turn a blind eye so why worry, repeat for ever and ever!

And the thing is no the money isn't that good, but until they start distinguishing between 'proper' teachers (like Pudgi is, or wants to be) and 'normal' teachers (i.e. basic TEFL no degree) and paying accordingly it's not going to change. Okay a generalisation, but rather than pretty much (unless you have a specific teaching qualification) put all teachers (quite often regardless of experience, ability etc.) into the same category EFL/ESL have some kind of slide scale on wages, and the ability to obtain a work permit easily. I know full qualified teacher (here) earning low wages, and people that know how to work the system earning high wages.

Quite often you can earn better money without a WP as you're not tied to a school etc. It's a very difficult situation, if you have a wife and family here and you've been teaching for x amount of years with no problem (in regards to not having a WP) would YOU suddenly turn tail and head home because you're not 'keeping it real'?

^ This is a bit garble but hopefully you get what I mean?

And Pudgi:

"The first month I was there, I didn't get paid (since I did not have a Work Permit), and merely observed the classes, discussed teaching methods with the other teachers and attended the professional development meetings and lectures they hosted for the teachers."

Doesn't matter if you're being paid or NOT (you need a WP in theory even if you're doing volunteer work), you may well find you did actually need a work permit for some of the things you mention.

And Pudgi take it from me (and hopefully Phil will echo this) that the schools you've dealt with are the exception rather than the norm for most teachers here. You've been pretty lucky (or maybe you're as special as you say, I know not!).

Other than that some good points.

Thailand needs teachers, so why do they make it so ###### difficult for good, accomplished teachers to be legit?

And finally:

"Again, my reasons for discouraging people from working without a permit have nothing to do with any consequences they might face. Because, essentially, there are no personal consequences to working without a permit. Lots of people do it and very few get "burned" in any real way (and more likely than not, they got "burned" because of other factors, not the WP).

The reason people shouldn't work without a permit is because it encourages the schools to underpay teachers and it encourages non-education-oriented people to "wing it" as a teacher when really they have no business in a classroom."

^ Actually you may well find that teachers without a work permit are in some ways better off (financially) than teachers with (I kid you not) especially those with spousal or retirement Visas, or those that make regular trips home each year.

Also I know good teachers without WPs and bad teachers with, so your last sentence makes no sense at all (I wish it was that easy). You seem to have a limited scope of experience?

[Begs]

Please show me where you've heard of teachers being deported for not having a WP? I've only heard of one instance since I've been here.

There you go then, it does happen.

Seems very risky to me, but then again i never mess with Thailands Laws, call me a coward if you like, but getting arrested , deported and blacklisted is not my idea of having a good time.

I like Thailand, i do not want to banned from entering Thailand because i was chasing big money in the Teaching game.

I will struggle along overseas and scrape by on Western style wages.

[Begs]

Quite often you can earn better money without a WP as you're not tied to a school etc. It's a very difficult situation, if you have a wife and family here and you've been teaching for x amount of years with no problem (in regards to not having a WP) would YOU suddenly turn tail and head home because you're not 'keeping it real'?

I don't think i would run the risk of being Deported and Blacklisted if i had a wife and Family in Thailand............

But then again i never was very brave.

[Begs]

Pudgi- you're the one who's admitted to working for ECC in Thailand.

Begs seems to be hot after teachers. A resident teacher baiting troll? He seems to be a master baiter.

"Steven"

Not at all, I just wish I was as brave as the Intrepid Teachers are.

Would i risk arrest and deportation just to earn lots of Money?

Ummmm.....

[Begs]

Again, my reasons for discouraging people from working without a permit have nothing to do with any consequences they might face. Because, essentially, there are no personal consequences to working without a permit. Lots of people do it

So you are saying that working without a work permit is ok?

Strange that.........i always thought it was illegal.

But what would i know........................

[kenkannif]

Please show me where you've heard of teachers being deported for not having a WP? I've only heard of one instance since I've been here.

There you go then, it does happen.

^ Yes, she was grassed up by a fellow teacher, not by Immigration or the MoE! This was over 3 years or so ago now! Not bad odds really when you think how many teachers are here? I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but it happens, would you prefer we 'pretend' that is doesn't?

Edited August 20, 2004 by kenkannif

[kenkannif]

Quite often you can earn better money without a WP as you're not tied to a school etc. It's a very difficult situation, if you have a wife and family here and you've been teaching for x amount of years with no problem (in regards to not having a WP) would YOU suddenly turn tail and head home because you're not 'keeping it real'?

I don't think i would run the risk of being Deported and Blacklisted if i had a wife and Family in Thailand............

But then again i never was very brave.

Completely and utterly up to you, no one is saying you should do this are they? Rather that it happens!

Blacklisted who mentioned that? Oh you did...LoL!

[kenkannif]

Pudgi- you're the one who's admitted to working for ECC in Thailand.

Begs seems to be hot after teachers.  A resident teacher baiting troll?  He seems to be a master baiter.

"Steven"

Not at all, I just wish I was as brave as the Intrepid Teachers are.

Would i risk arrest and deportation just to earn lots of Money?

Ummmm.....

^ As I mentioned not a lot of money is made teaching!

Again no one is telling you what to do (you're your own man!).

[kenkannif]

But what would i know........................

Precisely! Thanks!

I suppose in an ideal world yes it is wrong to work here without a work permit, but the sad reality (<means in 'real' life) is many, many teachers do have to (for various reasons). You're lucky you don't have to, or that you're happy to work abroad and holiday/visit here. Some people (again for various reasons) don't have that option. Why not worry about yourself, rather than being down on others (as surely karma (or Imm) will catch up with them if what you 'say' is true?).

No one is saying it SHOULD be this way, but unfortunately it is THIS WAY!

Are you a teacher? Been a teacher? Work or have worked for a school here in Thailand?

Edited August 20, 2004 by kenkannif

[Begs]

But what would i know........................

Precisely! Thanks!

Just checked with the Visa section.....seems that working without a work permit is illegal.

I thought that someone had mentioned that earlier.

[Begs]

Are you a teacher? Been a teacher? Work or have worked for a school here in Thailand?

No, i am not brave enough to risk Arrest, Deportation and Blacklisting.

Some guy was deported for taking a towel from a hotel in Pattaya, he is now Blacklisted from Thailand.

But maybe taking a towel is more serious than flouting a countries Immigration Laws.

[kenkannif]

Yes, indeed! I've also heard of people with WPs being arrested for working in the wrong location (i.e. where their work permit didn't cover them and this applies to most teachers).

Stealing a towel and offering a service that is needed (FYI: We used to teach Thai Immigration the teacher that taught them did not have a WP, and if he did it wouldn't have covered him off premises anyway!) are two different things as you rightly point out. We also did some work for the MoE during APEC, the teacher that did it didn't have a WP....etc. So please get the message this is a job that is not taking anything away from the Thais, is offering a service that is genuinely needed and like I said if Imm wanted to, they could shut down pretty much every language school here in Thailand. If what is being done is so risky, and so dangerous...err why does this never happen?

Basically as a teacher here it's very, very difficult to be 100% legit, that is all anyone is saying here. Why the problem with that? You're not part of the solution, and you're not offering constructive advice, rather you're scare mongering about something which IMHO you know very little about!

Yes, WPs should be given to all teachers, but they're not! Simple as?

Edited August 20, 2004 by kenkannif

[kenkannif]

But what would i know........................

Precisely! Thanks!

Just checked with the Visa section.....seems that working without a work permit is illegal.

I thought that someone had mentioned that earlier.

^ Yes indeedy in your many posts here you've basically repeated yourself over and over! The point of doing this is?

Yes, working here without a WP (unless you work for the BC) is a no no BUT like prostitution, riding a motorcycle without a helmet, working at a different location, teaching a different subject (as to what you're WP says you can), it is common practice!

Should I lie and say it doesn't happen, and if you do it you'll be in big trouble (chances are 99% you won't have a problem)???? Would that make you feel better?

[Begs]

Basically as a teacher here it's very, very difficult to be 100% legit, that is all anyone is saying here. Why the problem with that? You're not part of the solution, and you're not offering constructive advice, rather you're scare mongering about something which IMHO you know very little about!

So it's ok for English Teachers to work without a permit, that's good. Glad you have cleared that up for me.

Maybe the Salary could tempt me to join the ranks of the brave.

How much do you make a month, 250 - 300,000 Baht?

[kenkannif]

Begs,

Mate please stop it okay? I've told you teachers don't make a lot of money here, so please don't play the fool. You'll looking at on average around 35-60k a month.

Spit it out and please say what you mean this time? Don't beat about the bush!

[kenkannif]

So it's ok for English Teachers to work without a permit, that's good. Glad you have cleared that up for me.

^ Please show me where I said that? Don't misquote me it's not big and it's not clever!

[happyinbkk]

I agree that teachers should have a good qualification.

But there will always be ways to get around regulations.

I know of two guys, who work legally in thailand without having a degree.

They applied for their WP with a bachelor degree, which they ordered from the internet.

There are Schools/Colleges in the US which issue Bachelor Degrees against payment of about 400 or 500 USD. They even have hotlines, so that resp. Employers or other intrested parties can verify these degrees for their authencity.

If someone wants to stay, he will find a way to stay, no matter if you or me think it is ok.

[kenkannif]

^ Yes, but the MoE often circulates (to a lot of schools here) a letter with the offending 'schools' that offer these programs. Personally I don't see how having a degree in history will make you a better EFL/ESL teacher (although others may disagree!).

Edited August 20, 2004 by kenkannif