November, Busy Time On Farm..

[Lickey]

Having just had October as a holiday in UK with the mrs its time to check the farm now the rain has stopped, initial observations were good, the labour had kept the weeds down and pruned the tamarind orchard as requested, they used strimmers and sprays to kill off the weeds ect, all was fine till i put the irrigation pumps on, the strimmers had cut holes in the PVC pipe in many places, knocked off outlets ect, so after a day or so repairing the holes ect, all looks better, well, till i checked the drip feed to the new Papaya plants, this is something i put in place last April, when we planted 1200 new papaya plants, sales begun while we were away, the handcarts totally wrecked the pipework drip-feed so ive taken all that away now, back to overhead sprinklers!!

Our raised covered salad beds are all ready to be sown, and besides the cow dung Mr Poo provides us with, do any of you good farmers think bamboo ash would be a helpful additive to the soil, ive been cleaning out the old/dead bamboo from the 2 rai plantation and burning it, the ash looks fibrous and fluffy, would this contribute to a heavy red clay type soil, ?

Thanks for your input and coments, Rgds, Lickey.

[Loom]

I've recently read that ash is a good additive for compost but have no real experience. I believe ash has a high potash content.

Since u mentioned irrigation systems...maybe you have some insight. In-laws have set up a small veggie garden (beans, cucumbers, chilis, etc.) and instead of scooping buckets of water out of the stream have asked for a sprinkler system. We'd have to run a power line from the house and buy an electric pump. I was thinking instead of using the gas pump but would have to build/buy a storage container and drip line network.

Problem is that the the garden location is probably temporary. (Due to the need for a power supply for a sprinkler system, it might be easier to move the gas pump/drip system to another location?) Would you have any recommendations about the most cost effective alternative? I like the concept of drip irrigation but we're not dealing scarce water supplies.

[Lickey]

Hi Loom, thanks for your reply, yes, i understand that ash is good for the soil, just wondered if bamboo ash is ok, perhaps it includes some acetic acid or the like that is no good, I was rather hoping Chownah would chime in here with his organic knowledge!!

Your irrigation, i would stick to the gas pump, give the gardens water in the mornings and evenings, if you temporarily installed a drip system and it works ok, it will be left on 24hrs, because then your thai family dosent have to do anything, with a pump system, they have to be in the garden and can see what is ready to eat ect, therefore keeping an eye on things,

I have a huge clay water tank, 2300ltrs as a holding tank for the booster pump, it cost 700bht with a 2in blue PVC outlet cast into it, if you bought one of these and raised it about 5ft from the ground, then buy some plastic pipe or green hose, make some holes in it near the plant ect, gravity should do the rest, just keep tank topped up with gas pump when needed,

Rgds, Lickey.

[chownah]

Ash from any kind of wood is good as far as I know...I've never heard of any exceptions. Indeed potassium is the main benefit (although other minerals are present in amounts varying depending on the type of wood) but beware that it is in a form that can leech away although this is not too much of a problem as potassium will bind to soils and is held by them very well....mostly it means that over application of ash in very wet conditions will result in some waste through leeching.. Also, in the north of Thailand the soils usually have an abundance of potassium naturally unless it is very sandy. When asking the gov't farming experts in the north for fertilizer recommendations they will tell you that you don't need to add any potassium to your rice crop unless you have very sandy soil.....so if I had a limited amount of ash I would use it on my sandy soils. Of course the best line of action is to do soil tests to be sure of what your soils has got and what it ain't. To be sure that the mineral potassium naturally occuring in your soil is available to crops be sure that your soil has alot of organic matter because the organic acids created in the decomposition of organic matter will help to dissolve the mostly insoluble potassium minerals on soil particle surfaces thus making it available for plants to use.

Also note that adding A LOT of ash will raise the pH of the soil (reduce the acidity) which is beneficial on some soils but is detrimental on some tropical soils. Some tropical soils only work well if they are somewhat acid....I am no expert on this but my gut feeling is that it would probably take a really really large amount of ash to do this so I wouldn't worry about it too much but I thought I would mention it just in the event that someone had a huge supply of ash and started to dump large amounts of it in heavy deposits....the same goes for liming....heavy lime applications can be counter productive.....test the soil to see what you've got before heavy liming....or just try a test plot at the rate you expect you will want to apply the year before to see how it goes.....yes good farming practices sometimes require planning a year in advance....or even two or three....on the other hand if you over apply lime it will leech out eventually since it rains alot here....so why worry!!!!

Chownah

Chownah

[Loom]

Hi Loom, thanks for your reply, yes, i understand that ash is good for the soil, just wondered if bamboo ash is ok, perhaps it includes some acetic acid or the like that is no good, I was rather hoping Chownah would chime in here with his organic knowledge!!

Your irrigation, i would stick to the gas pump, give the gardens water in the mornings and evenings, if you temporarily installed a drip system and it works ok, it will be left on 24hrs, because then your thai family dosent have to do anything, with a pump system, they have to be in the garden and can see what is ready to eat ect, therefore keeping an eye on things,

I have a huge clay water tank, 2300ltrs as a holding tank for the booster pump, it cost 700bht with a 2in blue PVC outlet cast into it, if you bought one of these and raised it about 5ft from the ground, then buy some plastic pipe or green hose, make some holes in it near the plant ect, gravity should do the rest, just keep tank topped up with gas pump when needed,

Rgds, Lickey.

We'll look into a storage tank and outlet. You don't have problems with the water getting too warm during daylight hours??

A paint bucket would be too small. I guess we'll have to find out how many buckets they use in a day. Is the clay tank you're using the one that's about 6 feet high? Those look a lot better than the cement ring tanks I've seen.

Guess if we can get rainwater from the house redirected could save some money on gas.

Now I better go study how plants use potassium.

[Lickey]

Hi Loom, yes, the tank i use is about 5ft high, its a stand alone thing which can be moved anywhere, im basing my replies on your :temporary: garden and water supply ect, Concrete rings are usually permanent, Hot water, mmm, well, our original 2in blue pipe to the top of the farm is 240 mtrs, ive just added another 300mtrs for the papaya and banana plantation, when i put on pumps in the morning, about 9.30, im sure i could make a coffee at the far end, its very hot!! but its "room tempeture" after the 2nd booster pump load, its down to borehole temp which can be as low as 40farenheit, that is more of a worry for me, very cold water going onto hot plants, so now i have 4 sprinklers each doing a radius of 12 mtrs and 2mtrs above the tallest papaya or banana plant, this warms the water and another thing ive noticed is the water hits the ground with force and penetrates, rather than forming dust balls and rolling away.

Loom, the rain has stopped now , probaly till next March/April, and the famers upstream from you will or might Dam the Klong {irrigation ditch} to feed the rice fields for sweetcorn ect, so might be a good idea to make a few storage tanks now, cos mains water is exspensive,

[Lickey]

Ash from any kind of wood is good as far as I know...I've never heard of any exceptions. Indeed potassium is the main benefit (although other minerals are present in amounts varying depending on the type of wood) but beware that it is in a form that can leech away although this is not too much of a problem as potassium will bind to soils and is held by them very well....mostly it means that over application of ash in very wet conditions will result in some waste through leeching.. Also, in the north of Thailand the soils usually have an abundance of potassium naturally unless it is very sandy. When asking the gov't farming experts in the north for fertilizer recommendations they will tell you that you don't need to add any potassium to your rice crop unless you have very sandy soil.....so if I had a limited amount of ash I would use it on my sandy soils. Of course the best line of action is to do soil tests to be sure of what your soils has got and what it ain't. To be sure that the mineral potassium naturally occuring in your soil is available to crops be sure that your soil has alot of organic matter because the organic acids created in the decomposition of organic matter will help to dissolve the mostly insoluble potassium minerals on soil particle surfaces thus making it available for plants to use.

Also note that adding A LOT of ash will raise the pH of the soil (reduce the acidity) which is beneficial on some soils but is detrimental on some tropical soils. Some tropical soils only work well if they are somewhat acid....I am no expert on this but my gut feeling is that it would probably take a really really large amount of ash to do this so I wouldn't worry about it too much but I thought I would mention it just in the event that someone had a huge supply of ash and started to dump large amounts of it in heavy deposits....the same goes for liming....heavy lime applications can be counter productive.....test the soil to see what you've got before heavy liming....or just try a test plot at the rate you expect you will want to apply the year before to see how it goes.....yes good farming practices sometimes require planning a year in advance....or even two or three....on the other hand if you over apply lime it will leech out eventually since it rains alot here....so why worry!!!!

Chownah

Chownah

Thanks Chownah, you have elayed my fears a bit, cos the only thing that seems to thrive with bamboo is bamboo!!i was wondering if the ash content contained a miscreant that would be harmfull to crops like Garlic and Oinion, the salad beds are 1 mtr wide and 4mtr long, Today i will add a 2 gallon bucket of ash to each, water it down and rake in, Sunday we hope to plant the bulbs, do you think to add more ash after they start growing or would this "scar or burn" the bulbs?

Perhaps you also remeber me asking about OD of weedkiller which my BIL did last year, well, you were right, the rain has cleaned the soil and the tomatoe and papaya plants have rejuvenated and doing well, some papaya have stunted growth but the fruit is near 1 kilo each, Recenlty ive banned labour from using weedkiller, and not to go within 1 mtr of irrigation pipes with strimmers, me or Mr Poo will spray along pipes with weedkiller, just to save money on repairs to pipes, Cheers, Lickey..

[chownah]

I don't know about adding ash to already growing onions. My thinking is that what you put on initially is probably enough. I've not used ash very much. It is chemically active when first applied. It is sometimes sprinkled around the base of young plants to deter bugs. I've done that and it never seemed to hurt the young plants but I only did a light dusting of it.

By the way I think I should make it clear that the word "ash" as I have been using it is a white powdery substance.....it is not black. The black indicates charcoal which means that the wood did not burn completely. So, what I've said about "ash" has to do with the white powdery stuff.

Chownah

[Lickey]

Yes, the ash is totally white, no black pieces atall, its very fluffy and waters down nicely, I seem to remeber my father throwing white ash on the potatoes and tomatoe plants years ago in UK, on the leaves ect, to keep off aphids and other leaf eating insects, as i remember, the garden always looked healthy and we always had good produce, onions and garlic never seem to have a bug problem, but many other plants do, would you think scattering ash on grown plants will or will not deter bugs, like you, i dont like pesticides, Thanks for your input Chownah, rgds Lickey..

[chownah]

People who have alot of ash should try it and see and then let us know how it went....it probably works for some bugs and not others. As I said before I don't have alot of experience with using it. If I had a steady supply of ash and wanted to use it as a regular dust to apply to some crop then I think I would either buy or make a duster. A duster is a devise for puffing powdery stuff onto plants....sort of like a hand pump mister but to handle powders instead of liquids.

[Lickey]

Ok chownah, as we have lots of bamboo and off-cuts from Tamarind trees, also now huge sawdust heaps, will experiment with ash on Makua, cucumber and melon foilage, perhaps even the Papaya, and possibly the 1 rai chile plantation, even the ants get into the chilies!! got nothing to loose by trying this,I would think no aphid or ant would like a mouthfull of ash, and of course will keep you all posted on the results, Cheers, Lickey.

[stateman]

Long time ago, when Thailand used primitive wood/charcoal stoves for cooking, there would be white ash after the burn. People would spread the ash over plants in the garden for fertilizing.

[JungleBiker]

the strimmers had cut holes in the PVC pipe in many places, knocked off outlets ect,

Hi Lickey,

What I consider to be real strimmers have a rotating nylon cord as a whip-like blade that will cuts through weeds but not stuff like PVC pipes and people's boots. I guess you have the modified (deadly) Thai version with metal blades - I know the metal blades last a long time and can cut through brushwood but it seems to defeat the advantage of a real strimmer in being able, for example, to cut grass right up to the base of a tree without damaging the bark. Perhaps you should get hold of strimmers with the nylon cord? I think the heads are interchangeable.

JB.

[MrSquigle]

In Oz they are called 'brushcutter' and 'whipper cnipper'...the first is bladed and cuts through small weeds, shrubs branches etc...the second id the nylon thread which whips around at high speed and cuts grass and weeds clean off and as described, does not cut irrigation pieps or boots or trees bark even.

[Lickey]

The thai labour uses there own strimmers which are of course the steel bladed type, 2 men 2 strimmers, on our 40 rai fruit farm, about half needs the weeds ect chopped down in the tamarind and lamyi/mango/kanoon plantation, the main irrigation pipes run through this to the papaya and banana plantations, At the Mrs request, they snip off any tamarind branches that are getting close to the ground, and same with the Lamyi, so i would think the nylon types are out of the question really, I havent seen them as an alternative where we live so im not sure of availabillty?

It wasnt such a big job to fix the pipes ect, i have a shed load of joints,t-pieces, odd pieces of pipe sizes and glue, not to mention the cure-all, the motorbike inner tube, cut into strips,stretch and bind this round a leak,tuck it under itself and its cured, free from the local bike shop!!

Cheers, Lickey..

[slapout]

I have noticed the city employees here in Chiang Mai are using the cord type heads on weed wackers now. I had same problem with workers cutting irrigation pipe etc. Told the wife one time I reckon the workers could break an anvil, they must be thinking of their last party as they almost seem in a daze when they run week eaters, never seem to hit their feet or leg so maybe they are paying attention. I brought several heads and cord back from US to put on Thai machines. We have a Stihl, which Thai workers allow is stronger as they went back to steel cutters as their machines were not stong enough for cord heads??? I figure they saw how much faster our machine was and they didnt want to finish too fast as they are paid by the day. The irrigration pipe is now buried but they still hit the heads now and then.

[egg]

Having just had October as a holiday in UK with the mrs its time to check the farm now the rain has stopped, initial observations were good, the labour had kept the weeds down and pruned the tamarind orchard as requested, they used strimmers and sprays to kill off the weeds ect, all was fine till i put the irrigation pumps on, the strimmers had cut holes in the PVC pipe in many places, knocked off outlets ect, so after a day or so repairing the holes ect, all looks better, well, till i checked the drip feed to the new Papaya plants, this is something i put in place last April, when we planted 1200 new papaya plants, sales begun while we were away, the handcarts totally wrecked the pipework drip-feed so ive taken all that away now, back to overhead sprinklers!!

Our raised covered salad beds are all ready to be sown, and besides the cow dung Mr Poo provides us with, do any of you good farmers think bamboo ash would be a helpful additive to the soil, ive been cleaning out the old/dead bamboo from the 2 rai plantation and burning it, the ash looks fibrous and fluffy, would this contribute to a heavy red clay type soil, ?

Thanks for your input and coments, Rgds, Lickey.

Lickey ,, l am far from an expert , but back in OZ l was told to much ash is not good for the garden ,, it changes the PH level in some way ,,, like most things in life it is OK in moderation ,,,,for bug control ,, try planting Citronella around and amongst crops ,, and last my 2 bobs (sorry satang)worth ,, a garlic spray useful against most insects ,,,85 g (3 big nobs) of garlic ,,,6 tablespoons of medicinal pariffin oil ,,,, 1 tablespoon of oil-based soap (grated) and 1/2 a litre of hot water ,,,,,,,,,,, roughly chop garlic ,, put it and oil into a blender and pulp it ,,put the result into a container and cover ,, leave for 48 hours ,,,,when time is up ,,stir grated soap into hot water until melted and add to galic mixture ,,, when cool drain into screw top containers and store in a cool place (fridge) ,,,, this works pretty well ,,, good luck

Cheers

[Lickey]

Egg, good reply, youve really got me thinking now,im wondering if to make up what you described, put it in a stocking or similar and drop it in the water holding tank, the holding tank water [via booster pump] is used to irrigate all crops on the farm, this way it would get to all plants and hopefully keep them insect free, the only problem i can see is cross -polination by bees, would this deter the bees? Ive seen a lot of bees on the farm doing there job which is good of course, perhaps the ash will deter them as well? but so far, ive only used ash as a :starter: in the soil, havent used it to dust plants yet, looking forward to your comments, Thanks, Lickey..