Why Do Western People Use The Word "farang"?

[Jingthing]

I am well used to it. Not bothered by it. Just making an observation. I love Thailand. Cheers.

[Manchester]

Let's keep it civil and within TV rules please, boys & girls.

Trying too.

[thaiman]

we use the word because its sounds good. it is different and fun. It's not insulting. Only the context and the way it is said makes it insulting.

[tracer5050]

I have been asked if i get upset when someone calls me farang ,By my Thai family, I say no because most of the Thais I know only mean I am not Asian. They all treat me with the upmost respect as I do to them,

Edited November 25, 2007 by tracer5050

[Jingthing]

The average red neck in the West wouldn't know the difference between a Thai, Filipino, Taiwanese or Japanese either and probably call them all Chinese or something so you see the same tendency in the West.

True. And you called such people rednecks. A belittling term. Interesting.

So like me you read something about people by the words people say when they classify people's race/ethnicity.

BTW, I think almost all people all over the world, now and in the past, are racists to some degree or another, and that this is a part of the human psyche that is desirable to be kept under control. However, it has been used by different societies at different times of history for survival reasons during times of war, demonizing the others as not human. Thais, "farangs" we are all humans subject to the same tendencies.

Edited November 25, 2007 by Jingthing

[mesohappy314]

From the things I've read on here, I am now convinced that the phrase "Thai people" is derogatory. I wonder why Thai people use it when referring to themselves . . .

[Jingthing]

From the things I've read on here, I am now convinced that the phrase "Thai people" is derogatory. I wonder why Thai people use it when referring to themselves . . .

Funny.

I have a "story". Woody Allen (famous New York Jew) and fictional escaped German Nazi war criminal Fritz Schultz take a trip to Thailand to enjoy the Thai nightlife and happen to visit the same brothel at exactly the same time. The Thai lady boss says, "that farang wants the Karen girl and that farang wants the Isaan boy."

Edited November 25, 2007 by Jingthing

[mesohappy314]

From the things I've read on here, I am now convinced that the phrase "Thai people" is derogatory. I wonder why Thai people use it when referring to themselves . . .

Funny.

I have a "story". Woody Allen (famous New York Jew) and fictional escaped German Nazi war criminal Fritz Schultz take a trip to Thailand to enjoy the Thai nightlife and happen to visit the same brothel at exactly the same time. The Thai lady boss says, "that farang wants the Karen girl and that farang wants the Isaan boy."

I had no idea Woody Allen had adopted a boy from Isaan.

[Jingthing]

Woody likes the young ladies, thank you very much.

Edited November 25, 2007 by Jingthing

[jeffinbangkok]

In my opinion the question I have is not only about being called Farang but about not being called "Khon Farang!" If I am not mistaken "khon" means "people."

I read most of the replies and the question not discussed in most of the pages of this thread is: "Why do Kohn Thai people refer to themseleves as "Khon Thai" while refering to foreigners as simply "Farang" and not "Kohn Farang?"

[mesohappy314]

Meemiathai and other like-minded farangs--If the PC brigade has their way and farang becomes a taboo word, what say we adopt it in the same way that some black Americans use the N-word? You know, Yo farang, whazzup? I am a bad muthaeffing farang, etc.? Keeping the word alive like that would have the additional benefit of irking the PC farangs to no end.

Further to that, I wonder what the offended class would like the Thais to call us in their own language? Perhaps Kon pio nang rai si? (People of no color) might please them?

Fo shizzle, my fizzle.

[garro]

In my opinion the question I have is not only about being called Farang but about not being called "Khon Farang!" If I am not mistaken "khon" means "people."

I read most of the replies and the question not discussed in most of the pages of this thread is: "Why do Kohn Thai people refer to themseleves as "Khon Thai" while refering to foreigners as simply "Farang" and not "Kohn Farang?"

Horrid isn't it.

I heard an English guy recently refer to himself as an Englishman.

He then went on to refer to a man from Scotland as Scottish and not Scottishman.

I felt outraged. This is obvious racism.

Come the revolution this type of person will be first agaist the wall.

Well done for spotting yet another outrage committed by the people of Thailand against 'people without colour'.

They will eventually push us too far!

[canuckamuck]

How many times will this topic rise from the grave?

The word in question is very convenient because it means white western foreigner. Therefore I have added it to my vocabulary along with other convenient words like nit noy, tamada, aroi, etc, I only use these words when speaking to people with at least an elementary level of Thai.

If you haven't noticed English is full of words from other languages, so is Thai.

Get over yourselves.

[mr_hippo]

Only observing a greater tendency to group non-Asians here. I don't know how people can seriously deny that. If it is rude, then I am only observing a tendency here to spare Asian people this rudeness.

You seem to be annoyed that farangs are called farangs and not by nationality but haven't you done the same thing? Please do not refer to Japanese, Koreans, Mongolians, Burmese, Sri Lankans, Samoans, et al. as 'Asian people', refer to them by specific nationality!

[qualtrough]

In my opinion the question I have is not only about being called Farang but about not being called "Khon Farang!" If I am not mistaken "khon" means "people."

I read most of the replies and the question not discussed in most of the pages of this thread is: "Why do Kohn Thai people refer to themseleves as "Khon Thai" while refering to foreigners as simply "Farang" and not "Kohn Farang?"

Horrid isn't it.

I heard an English guy recently refer to himself as an Englishman.

He then went on to refer to a man from Scotland as Scottish and not Scottishman.

I felt outraged. This is obvious racism.

Come the revolution this type of person will be first agaist the wall.

Well done for spotting yet another outrage committed by the people of Thailand against 'people without colour'.

They will eventually push us too far!

We People Without Color must firmly unite against such outrages! My plan for us to adopt the word 'farang' exclusively for use by we People Without Color will strike a blow by seizing the offensive word from our oppressors and making it our own. From now on, chastise Thais for using the word, but proudly use it to refer to yourself and other People Without Color. Thank you to our fellow brothers for calling our attention to this slight by our Thai oppressors. Word.

P.S. The above reply is a joke, meant in a sarcastic tone. Shouldn't be necessary to point this out, but past experience sadly tells me that it is.

[cobalto]

I have my own theory: A long time ago, in this very country, a english speaker tried to teach the locals his language. He tought that he was a "Foreigner". But due to the difficult of the locals to speak their language (as we all know spoon becomes "sipoon", etc) the word became "Farang".

So for my point of view Farang is simply Foreigner in their way of speaking...

I can understand why they call us all Farang, the same way I can understand why americans calls all hispanos as "chicanos" (even though not all are from Mexico). Brazilians (my nationality) calls any foreigners as "gringos" (even though this term is initially created for americans only)...

Not every one can identify from where you came from. And even they know (after you tell), some doesn't even know your country exists or where is it located! Believe me, I saw Thais thinking that Brazil was in Europe, having snow almost the whole year!!!

[ade100]

The Original Poster here.

First thanks everyone for so much insight and so many valuable contributions. Apologies to those who have discussed this many times before and find it tiresome.

Much of the discussion has focussed on whether or not the F word is derogatory. This is interesting but not really what my question was. My question is why so many Westerners adopt the word.

Some folk have said they only use it when speaking Thai which is interesting.

The majority vote seems to be the Farang just means Caucasian. Well this where I disagree and this is the root of my original question.

Since being in Thailand I have been asked questions such as:

What do farang do with their leisure time?

What do farang think of homosexuality?

What do farang think of family life?

The questions are not answerable. Clearly the underlying philosophy here is that the Caucasian world is basically one unified culture. (And as jingthing has pointed out, Thais are prepared, or able, to differentiate when it comes to other Asian nationalities. They may not know instantly where a person comes from but once they know, they will refer to them as Korean or Japanese, etc. I however, even though the people who know me, know my nationality, I remain farang.)

I have also mentioned the “I love Farang” stickers which imply that Farang means English speaking.

So I don’t particularly care if Thais call me farang (but I tend to have more respect for those who use more educated wording). But as farang seems to imply “Western”, “Caucasian”, “English Speaking” and ignores the diversity of other cultures, it is a word I prefer not to adopt when speaking English (although I often find myself saying it, which is very annoying).

I was just curious as to what others felt about it.

[selavy59]

"So one has to adjust to Thai people's low IQ and lack of education and use this and other words"

Just because you have to dumb your language down a little doesn't mean the thais you are talking to have a low IQ. Besides, IQ and lack of education are not the same. I have met many thais who have lacked an education but their intelligence is very high.

My wife was forced to leave school at 14 with no education certificate to her name, but she most certainly has an above average IQ. She taught herself basic English in 6 weeks from a dictionary.

As for the word farang, its used universally. Its so much easier to say than Caucasian or trying to figure out which country a foreigner really comes from.

[meemiathai]

The farangs here who use the word "farang" do so because they understand the meaning of it and it is the only and most convenient and once said you know exactly what they are trying to say word and it is not offensive.

[qualtrough]

The Original Poster here.

First thanks everyone for so much insight and so many valuable contributions. Apologies to those who have discussed this many times before and find it tiresome.

Much of the discussion has focussed on whether or not the F word is derogatory. This is interesting but not really what my question was. My question is why so many Westerners adopt the word.

Some folk have said they only use it when speaking Thai which is interesting.

The majority vote seems to be the Farang just means Caucasian. Well this where I disagree and this is the root of my original question.

Since being in Thailand I have been asked questions such as:

What do farang do with their leisure time?

What do farang think of homosexuality?

What do farang think of family life?

The questions are not answerable. Clearly the underlying philosophy here is that the Caucasian world is basically one unified culture. (And as jingthing has pointed out, Thais are prepared, or able, to differentiate when it comes to other Asian nationalities. They may not know instantly where a person comes from but once they know, they will refer to them as Korean or Japanese, etc. I however, even though the people who know me, know my nationality, I remain farang.)

I have also mentioned the “I love Farang” stickers which imply that Farang means English speaking.

So I don’t particularly care if Thais call me farang (but I tend to have more respect for those who use more educated wording). But as farang seems to imply “Western”, “Caucasian”, “English Speaking” and ignores the diversity of other cultures, it is a word I prefer not to adopt when speaking English (although I often find myself saying it, which is very annoying).

I was just curious as to what others felt about it.

You really opened a can of words, er worms, here!

I think a big part of the problem here is trying to substitute the usage, tone, register, etc. of a word from one language to another language. There just isn't a 1:1 fit in many cases.

Leaving aside the question of whether or not 'farang' is a derogative term, which I think has been settled by Meadish, there are two other issues here.

1. Clearly in the examples you cite it is problematic to use farang when asking those questions as it is impossible to generalize to that extent given the broad make up of the 'caucasian' community. In this circumstance the use is as unproductive as a farang asking, "Why do Asians do....?" This indicates a lack of a broad world view for thosing posing those questions, but is no indictment of the word farang.

2. I just don't agree with your argument that the Thai taxi signs imply that farang refers to English speaking 'white people'. As Meadish, myself, and others have stated, it is used to identify those who might in our languages be called white people, Europeans, or sometimes caucasian. Language just doesn't come into it. Just because some taxis sport some signs in English saying 'I love farang' doesn't in any way back up your assertion. Like it or not English is one of the world's lingua francas, if not The lingua franca, and the Thais generally chose that to communicate to the broader tourist community. It would be silly for them to add J'aime farang, Ich liebe farang, etc., if only because the font size would make the individual messages disappear.

I don't always agree with this philosophy, but in the case of farangs getting their panties in a twist about the word farang I agree with this one that one hears from Thai friends from time to time: You think too much!

[mr_hippo]

How many of us here have worked in Saudi and have used the words 'iqama' and 'salah'? Do we have the English words or phrases for them? Yes, so why do we use them? It is convenient, nothing more, nothing less!

To those who say 'I would refer to a foreigner' as a Caucasian - you are in a restaurant in Podunk Tn, Midsomer St Whatsit, Surrey or Dingo's Bottom NSW and you want to call your companion's attention to a Caucasian in the restaurant, what do you say? Do you say "Do you see that Caucasian over there?" or "Do you see that man in the green shirt?' or what? I doubt if anyone would say "Do you see that Caucasian over there?"

Going slightly off topic - words in your native language change from area to area - ask any Brit for the names of the three main meals and you will get two answers (at least!) - breakfast, lunch & dinner or breakfast, dinner & tea.

So do not get hung up on what people call you - it does not matter!

[phutoie2]

Only observing a greater tendency to group non-Asians here. I don't know how people can seriously deny that. If it is rude, then I am only observing a tendency here to spare Asian people this rudeness.

You seem to be annoyed that farangs are called farangs and not by nationality but haven't you done the same thing? Please do not refer to Japanese, Koreans, Mongolians, Burmese, Sri Lankans, Samoans, et al. as 'Asian people', refer to them by specific nationality!

Agreed, but are they all not from the Asian continent?? Do you call someone from Uganda, Ugandan or African??. I know of no continent termed Farang

[ade100]

I have also mentioned the "I love Farang" stickers which imply that Farang means English speaking.

2. I just don't agree with your argument that the Thai taxi signs imply that farang refers to English speaking 'white people'.

I was told that Taxi drivers had to pass an exam in English Language to be able to put an “I Love Farang” sticker in the window and what it was saying was the taxi driver speaks English. So my conclusion here was that the word Farang was being used to mean “Anglophone” or an “English Speaking Person”. So this definition of Farang would exclude Albanians, Bulgarians, Italians, etc. but include Singaporeans and many Indians.

Have I go this wrong?

[mr_hippo]

Only observing a greater tendency to group non-Asians here. I don't know how people can seriously deny that. If it is rude, then I am only observing a tendency here to spare Asian people this rudeness.

You seem to be annoyed that farangs are called farangs and not by nationality but haven't you done the same thing? Please do not refer to Japanese, Koreans, Mongolians, Burmese, Sri Lankans, Samoans, et al. as 'Asian people', refer to them by specific nationality!

Agreed, but are they all not from the Asian continent?? Do you call someone from Uganda, Ugandan or African??. I know of no continent termed Farang

You seemed to have missed my point completely! jingthing seems to want the word 'farang' replaced with either the person's nationality or Caucasian but seems to be quite happy to collectively call all people born on the Asian continent or having oriental features as 'Asian people'.

Has anyone suggested, implied or inferred that there is or was a continent called Farang? Neither has anyone said there is a continent called Caucasia! What would I call a Ugandan? If I knew that he was Ugandan, I may refer to him as that, otherwise, I would possibly use the non-pc term 'black man' if he were black! Am I British, English or European? On official forms, my nationality is 'Brit/Eng', if you were to ask me then I am English, never-ever European!

[meemiathai]

Politically correct

[Jingthing]

Only observing a greater tendency to group non-Asians here. I don't know how people can seriously deny that. If it is rude, then I am only observing a tendency here to spare Asian people this rudeness.

You seem to be annoyed that farangs are called farangs and not by nationality but haven't you done the same thing? Please do not refer to Japanese, Koreans, Mongolians, Burmese, Sri Lankans, Samoans, et al. as 'Asian people', refer to them by specific nationality!

You are silly.

In this case I was specifically talking about ALL Asian people, not a specific person of a specific nationality. Of course, many times that is necessary and quite the thing to do.

If I knew that he was Ugandan, I may refer to him as that, otherwise, I

Yes, I would too. My point again has been I have noticed a strong tendency of Thais who ALREADY KNOW our nationality to CONTINUE to call us FARANG. Agree with that, or disagree? As far as I can tell, Qualtrough with his scholarly google hit research has not even disagreed with that, at least yet.

BTW, I reject being labeled as politically correct. I am far from that! If you don't believe, would a PC person have posted my Woody Allen and a Nazi walk into a Thai brothel example?????

BTW, I do use the word farang in Thailand and talking about Thailand when referring in general to European descent people in Thailand. I am not bothered about the word at all. I have just provided my observations about how people use it and how in my view we are treated differently with this word by Thai people than they treat their race brothers. I have heard alot of fake pity for me (you can keep it) and alot of strident YOU ARE TOTALLY WRONG pronouncements, a charming suggestion to leave the country (fat chance), a crafty appeal to quit and repent and admit I am wrong before being humiliated from a poster who has "run out of peanuts" (oh pleeeeeeeze), but interestingly, I haven''t noticed one credible denial of this main point.

Edited November 26, 2007 by Jingthing

[meemiathai]

[meemiathai]

My point again has been I have noticed a strong tendency of Thais who ALREADY KNOW our nationality to CONTINUE to call us FARANG. Agree with that, or disagree?

Agreed. It seems so. But. So? What is the problem?

[Jingthing]

My point again has been I have noticed a strong tendency of Thais who ALREADY KNOW our nationality to CONTINUE to call us FARANG. Agree with that, or disagree?

Agreed. It seems so. But. So? What is the problem?

Did I say there was a problem? It is what it is, all I am saying is what it is, and individuals can consider what it means. I think it does tell us something. Maybe Thai culture google master Qualtrough can tell us. Does it have to do with race? Don't you think?

Edited November 26, 2007 by Jingthing

[meemiathai]

My point again has been I have noticed a strong tendency of Thais who ALREADY KNOW our nationality to CONTINUE to call us FARANG. Agree with that, or disagree?

Agreed. It seems so. But. So? What is the problem?

Did I say there was a problem? It is what it is, all I am saying is what it is, and individuals can consider what it means. I think it does tell us something. Maybe Thai culture google master Qualtrough can tell us. Does it have to do with race? Don't you think?

So what was the argument about again? You agree now, don't you, Jingthing? That there is nothing wrong with the word farang. Right?

So to the OP, the word is not offensive, so we use it.

I agree with this guy, btw.