Gbp Sterling

[BalthazarBeefheart]

Well I see after influencing me to spend ages reading up on foreign exchange the OP has in fact moved into Traditional English Pies ( see Classifieds) - makes more sense to me - I think its the unwinding of the carry too much weight trade that he will have to be wary of.

Cheers BB

[Mosha]

Just reported on BBC world.

Interest rates in the UK. Bank of Engaland cuts rates to 5.5%

The European Central Banks remain unchanged at 4.5%

[chiang mai]

Well I see after influencing me to spend ages reading up on foreign exchange the OP has in fact moved into Traditional English Pies ( see Classifieds) - makes more sense to me - I think its the unwinding of the carry too much weight trade that he will have to be wary of.

Cheers BB

You may jest but I'll have you know that the exchange rate for pies per baht is excellent at present and the futures market appears even stronger. Google piehousephuket if in doubt!

Edited December 6, 2007 by chiang mai

[BalthazarBeefheart]

Well I see after influencing me to spend ages reading up on foreign exchange the OP has in fact moved into Traditional English Pies ( see Classifieds) - makes more sense to me - I think its the unwinding of the carry too much weight trade that he will have to be wary of.

Cheers BB

You may jest but I'll have you know that the exchange rate for pies per baht is excellent at present and the futures market appears even stronger. Google piehousephuket if in doubt!

Back to the topic has anyone decided to move out of sterling ? I really can't make up my mind on this one. Here's my feeling in order of weight JYN CAD SGD CHF USD and of course PIE

Cheers BB

[GuestHouse]

Back to the topic has anyone decided to move out of sterling ? I really can't make up my mind on this one. Here's my feeling in order of weight JYN CAD SGD CHF USD and of course PIE

Cheers BB

What do you mean like sell my property in the UK (or ask my tenants to pay in another currency) or are you referring to moving my pension plans off shore and into another currency, or simply asking my boss to pay me in another currency.

OK I've invested a wad in China, doing rather nicely and I might get a bit of a windfall if Chinese adjust their currency (the current problems they are having with food supply and prices might force that on them).

But in comparrison with life savings which will never move out of the UK the idea of 'Moving out of Sterling' - is utter nonsense.

[Naam]

But in comparrison with life savings which will never move out of the UK the idea of 'Moving out of Sterling' - is utter nonsense.

never say never the days of Sterling are counted and it's only a matter of time till your tenants will pay you with €URos. might take some years though.

Edited December 8, 2007 by Naam

[GuestHouse]

Right so one day the UK decides to move over to Euros (while maintaining all the UK laws regarding trusts and financial controls) - So it is possible to be moved over to Euros from Sterling by my government.

But to move my life savings out of the security of my home ecconomy and legal system to some other currency and legal systems would be nuts.

If life in Thailand goes down the pan, I'd more than likely be heading back to the UK - while I stay with the UK currency (whatever that is) I maitain a bridge home.

[Naam]

But to move my life savings out of the security of my home ecconomy and legal system to some other currency and legal systems would be nuts.

our opinions differ. years ago my efforts where concentrated on moving my life savings and assets out of the security of my home legal system and the greedy claws of my home taxman and that's how it will remain; even in the unlikely event that i am moving back to Germany one day.

[BalthazarBeefheart]

Right so one day the UK decides to move over to Euros (while maintaining all the UK laws regarding trusts and financial controls) - So it is possible to be moved over to Euros from Sterling by my government.

But to move my life savings out of the security of my home ecconomy and legal system to some other currency and legal systems would be nuts.

If life in Thailand goes down the pan, I'd more than likely be heading back to the UK - while I stay with the UK currency (whatever that is) I maitain a bridge home.

I said nothing about moving your out of the security of your home economy (what like Northern Rock). My plan in fact is to have my money still in the UK but not in sterling - this is all about hedging ones bets - my pension is paid in pounds but I live in Thailand so I would like to cover myself for my pension not being paid in the currency of domicile and that currency strengthening. I think by cutting interest rates too soon the B of E will enable the pound to remain strong for a while because the added inflationary pressures will delay further cuts. But my crystal ball gets cloudy when I look at the long term GBP/BHT rate.

Good Luck BB

[GuestHouse]

As I have frequently stated here on TV - Inflation is the biggest enemy of expats in Thailand.

You mention Northern Rock - Yes Nothern Rock is a great example of the financial protections that UK savers enjoy. - Not only the Savings Guarantee insurance that is provided under UK law (protecting individual savings up to £30K [exact amount?] but also the FACT that no savers with Northern Rock have lost ANY money.

That cannot be said of savers in Thai instutions during their troublles.

Talk to a financial advisor about the savings benefits in £GBP (example tax free savings and investments) v the costs and restrictions of foreign currency accounts.

[BalthazarBeefheart]

As I have frequently stated here on TV - Inflation is the biggest enemy of expats in Thailand.

You mention Northern Rock - Yes Nothern Rock is a great example of the financial protections that UK savers enjoy. - Not only the Savings Guarantee insurance that is provided under UK law (protecting individual savings up to £30K [exact amount?] but also the FACT that no savers with Northern Rock have lost ANY money.

That cannot be said of savers in Thai instutions during their troublles.

Talk to a financial advisor about the savings benefits in £GBP (example tax free savings and investments) v the costs and restrictions of foreign currency accounts.

Yes but think how you would have been crapping yourself if you were out here trying to withdraw your savings from Northern Rock before Darling came to the rescue now there is talk of nationalising it.

I never talk to financial advisers as I feel with my background I know more than most but I would be most grateful if you could enlighten me as I still have not made up my mind on this matter. The spread between exchange rates is 1.04% - I didn't see any other costs - what are the restrictions ? Please dont forget this is a long term solution. Seriously, your help is most appreciated.

Cheers BB

[cclub75]

You mention Northern Rock - Yes Nothern Rock is a great example of the financial protections that UK savers enjoy. - Not only the Savings Guarantee insurance that is provided under UK law (protecting individual savings up to £30K [exact amount?] but also the FACT that no savers with Northern Rock have lost ANY money.

Sure, they didn't.

But probably those same people are... tax payers.

And from that point of view, they will... loose.

As for the "move out the GBP would be nut"... okay I'm not british, but I can't understand these kind of stance.

I mean : you have an emotional link to your currency ?

As someone said : never say "never".

Nothern Rock, again, should open your eyes. Since the begining, it wasn't supposed to happen. After the state intervention it was supposed to be the "safest bank in the world"... Then dozen of buyers were supposed to buy out Northen (Virgin etc.)... Funny... there is nobody now.

At the end of the road : the gvt is going to buy this mountain of crap.

And probably, you'll be happy to pay the bill.

The bill will be in sterling... so I guess, you'll feel good ?

Edited December 8, 2007 by cclub75

[Naam]

...the costs and restrictions of foreign currency accounts

what costs, what restrictions GH?

[chiang mai]

Well I see after influencing me to spend ages reading up on foreign exchange the OP has in fact moved into Traditional English Pies ( see Classifieds) - makes more sense to me - I think its the unwinding of the carry too much weight trade that he will have to be wary of.

Cheers BB

You may jest but I'll have you know that the exchange rate for pies per baht is excellent at present and the futures market appears even stronger. Google piehousephuket if in doubt!

Back to the topic has anyone decided to move out of sterling ? I really can't make up my mind on this one. Here's my feeling in order of weight JYN CAD SGD CHF USD and of course PIE

Cheers BB

For my part I now have a two pronged approach. I've put about 60% of my liquid Sterling into 2 year fixed rate and am in the process of diversifying the remainder into CNY, JYN and USD. Whilst I thought previously that the bottom for USD/GBP was around 2.15 or even lower I now reckon it has reached bottomish and will strongly consider moving some funds into USD. My logic for the latter is based on the fact that the BOE will almost certainly continue to trim rates.

[GuestHouse]

As for the "move out the GBP would be nut"... okay I'm not british, but I can't understand these kind of stance.

I mean : you have an emotional link to your currency ?

As someone said : never say "never".

What I actually said was -

But to move my life savings out of the security of my home ecconomy and legal system to some other currency and legal systems would be nuts.

and I firmly believe it would be nuts to move my life savings (cash/pensions/investments and property out of the security of the UK legal system.

I frequently post here on wills and wealth management after one's own death - The UK has fist rate provisions for the protection of assets and dependents through wills and trusts - This is one example of why I say it would be nuts for me to consider moving my wealth and assets out of the UK.

Nothern Rock, again, should open your eyes. Since the begining, it wasn't supposed to happen. After the state intervention it was supposed to be the "safest bank in the world"... Then dozen of buyers were supposed to buy out Northen (Virgin etc.)... Funny... there is nobody now.

At the end of the road : the gvt is going to buy this mountain of crap.

And probably, you'll be happy to pay the bill.

The bill will be in sterling... so I guess, you'll feel good ?

Since I pay almost zero tax in the UK I don't think I shall be paying for Northern rock - but again, non of the people who held accounts at Norther Rock lost ANY money. - Difficult as it is for you to come to terms with that, it remains the truth

[GuestHouse]

our opinions differ. years ago my efforts where concentrated on moving my life savings and assets out of the security of my home legal system and the greedy claws of my home taxman and that's how it will remain; even in the unlikely event that i am moving back to Germany one day.

I know zilch about the German Tax system. All I can say is that the UK tax system is very savings friendly there are numerous wholly legal means to save tax free, receive gains in your investments tax free and even have tax paid returned and added to your savings.

[GuestHouse]

what costs, what restrictions GH?

I've just checked the rates from the two banks I use (account charges and interest rates) both banks charge a monthly account fee for foreign currency accounts, both have lower interest rates on their foreign currency accounts than they do their UK based accounts. My UK based accounts have no fees and pay very competitive interest rates

Both clearly state that the accounts receive tax free interest - but fail to point out that UK based accounts also receive tax free interest if you fill in the paper work available from the branch (like I did).

Restrictions:

The idea, as you have said, is to hedge against currency fluctuations (a gamble... OK a speculation) - So you stick your money in a foreign currency account and receive a reduced interest rate hoping that the currency rate will go in your favour.

While also missing out on the opportunities of tax free and taxed returned savings widely available in the UK (Again sorry perhaps Germany doesn't help savers in the same way).

I say that is a restriction.

But I do accept that if you have already moved your wealth off shore then it may be worth looking at the currency options you have.

But the fact remains if you are from the UK (Germany) and you are living in Thailand but you invest in a third currency then you are running two risks (Movement of rates against your Thai spending and movements of rates against your 'home' currency).

If, added to this, you are either too old or too long out of the job market to be able to recoup a double loss then I suggest you need to take professional advice on financial risk management.

I'll leave my money where it is, safe, earning good interest and extremely good investment returns and importantly under the control of laws that are good for me and good for my family - And as an added bonus - almost entirely tax free.

Edited December 8, 2007 by GuestHouse

[JimsKnight]

Guesthouse, you are singing the right tune my friend

The pound isn't going into freefall now or the near future, it's just scaremongering by the expats who already have evacuated most of their coin from the UK. Doing this isn't a bad thing but it's not something I'd do unless I had a rock-solid link to Asia via a family marriage / work etc.

The UK is one of the best places for investors to put their money (London is after-all considered the investment capital of Europe) and will likely stay that way for a good while.

[GuestHouse]

Its not some inbuilt ability JK. As part of my overseas assignment package I receive free (company paid) access to one of the world's leading tax and investment advisory firms.

Their advice has been consistent - I don't need to put savings off shore to protect myself against tax. I should maintain my savings in my home currency (home being where I'll head if life goes to rat sh1t) and I should take advantage of the trust laws to ensure my family's future is protected.

Of course individual circumstances are different but my bet is that the fundamentals of the advice I have been given is good for everyone except for those with no savings and the super rich.

Edited December 8, 2007 by GuestHouse

[Naam]

what costs, what restrictions GH?

I've just checked the rates from the two banks I use (account charges and interest rates) both banks charge a monthly account fee for foreign currency accounts, both have lower interest rates on their foreign currency accounts than they do their UK based accounts. My UK based accounts have no fees and pay very competitive interest rates

my offshore currency accounts (a dozen different currencies) don't cost me a single penny and i'm sure that the interest rates my banks (Singapore and Luxembourg) pay can not only compete with those any UK bank pays but are higher. source: various postings from different OPs concerning interest rates they get paid.

[Naam]

[Restrictions:

The idea, as you have said, is to hedge against currency fluctuations (a gamble... OK a speculation) - So you stick your money in a foreign currency account and receive a reduced interest rate hoping that the currency rate will go in your favour.

i wouldn't call it a gamble but "diversified investment".

While also missing out on the opportunities of tax free and taxed returned savings widely available in the UK (Again sorry perhaps Germany doesn't help savers in the same way). I say that is a restriction.

i don't understand. if you don't pay taxes in UK how can you use "opportunities of tax free and taxed returned savings"?

But the fact remains if you are from the UK (Germany) and you are living in Thailand but you invest in a third currency then you are running two risks (Movement of rates against your Thai spending and movements of rates against your 'home' currency).

i can't follow that logic as my home currency is completely irrelevant if i don't live in my home country.

[Naam]

Its not some inbuilt ability JK. As part of my overseas assignment package I receive free (company paid) access to one of the world's leading tax and investment advisory firms.

Their advice has been consistent - I don't need to put savings off shore to protect myself against tax. I should maintain my savings in my home currency (home being where I'll head if life goes to rat sh1t) and I should take advantage of the trust laws to ensure my family's future is protected.

Of course individual circumstances are different but my bet is that the fundamentals of the advice I have been given is good for everyone except for those with no savings and the super rich.

i beg to differ and claim this is not good advice. in case "life goes to rat sh*t" and you are heading "home" you are standing in front of the UK taxman not only with your trousers but also with your undies down and he will ask for his cut ... unless you have moved your assets out of his reach before moving back. that's something which is not possible in Germany as the records of your holdings still exist as well as the trail to the location you moved them. and in this case the german taxman won't believe fairy tales that all the dough was spent on sick buffaloes

[cclub75]

What I actually said was -

But to move my life savings out of the security of my home ecconomy and legal system to some other currency and legal systems would be nuts.

and I firmly believe it would be nuts to move my life savings (cash/pensions/investments and property out of the security of the UK legal system.

I frequently post here on wills and wealth management after one's own death - The UK has fist rate provisions for the protection of assets and dependents through wills and trusts - This is one example of why I say it would be nuts for me to consider moving my wealth and assets out of the UK.

Fair enough.

But, at least 4 times you spoke about the "currency".

I should maintain my savings in my home currency

But in comparrison with life savings which will never move out of the UK the idea of 'Moving out of Sterling' - is utter nonsense.

But to move my life savings out of the security of my home ecconomy and legal system to some other currency and legal systems would be nuts.

while I stay with the UK currency (whatever that is) I maitain a bridge home.

This is why I understood that GBP was, somehow, very important for you.

As for the taxes that you don't pay, congratulations, you're lucky. I just would like to remind you that the british gvt wants, for instance, to change some provisions for the "non domicilied"... by creating a tax (Bloomberg).

To believe in the eternity of a tax system (at least on a life time scale)... especially in our modern days, is a real mistake in my opinion...

Edited December 8, 2007 by cclub75

[Naam]

To believe in the eternity of a tax system (at least on a life time scale)... especially in our modern days, is a real mistake in my opinion...

i fully agree! especially our heirs won't enjoy the tax havens and opportunities which we are enjoying now. but that's their problem

[GuestHouse]

our opinions differ. years ago my efforts where concentrated on moving my life savings and assets out of the security of my home legal system and the greedy claws of my home taxman and that's how it will remain; even in the unlikely event that i am moving back to Germany one day.

Perhaps our opinions differ because you are referring to the German tax system or perhaps because we have had different advice.

As I have said above the UK is extremely tax friendly to savers. Example:

There are several wholly legal means to save money and receive interest/share dividends and share profits tax free. ISAs Pension Trusts and Children’s trusts are all examples.

These all enjoy tax free status while maintaining all the financial protections available under UK law. (we have I think you agree already dispensed with the 'Northern Rock' non argument).

It is also quite legal to receive tax exemption on payments to pensions, despite being overseas and, this may surprise some, it is quite legal to receive tax contribution to pension payments while living overseas and not actually paying any tax in the UK provided that the circumstances of being overseas don’t breach the rules.

Typically a couple with two children, might each put £7000/year into Tax free investments, a further £3500/year for each child into tax free savings trusts for their children and they may on top of this each receive £20000 per year in Tax Free Capital Gains. If they go over their capital gains limit they can pay that into a pension and get the tax back as additional pension contributions.

And of course each member of the family, husband, wife and children have a tax free income allowance of over £4000, which ought to take care of any interest on bank accounts.

By my reckoning without even the UK it is possible to quite legally put tens of thousands of pounds out of the way of the tax man and after one full tax year out of the UK it is legally possible to put several hundred thousand pounds out of the way of the tax man.

Is the tax man waiting for you back home?

Yes and he has money to hand out.

Returning to work in the UK the only money that will be taxed is the money newly earned in the UK – But the first £4000 or so is tax free. And everything paid into a pension is tax free.

So, back in the UK – Go to work and pay everything over £4000 into a pension while living off the tax free savings you made overseas. (by doing this you get get the tax on all the money you pay into your pension - friendly tax man.)

Of course you might not want to fritter your savings away into a pension, but if you were only on a short visit to the UK until you go back overseas again its a great way of not paying tax.

But I've heared nasty stories of the tax man laying in wait to grab people's money when they return to the UK

So have I, and the people he picks on are people with offshore accounts - Money offshore is fine, while it remains offshore - its when you try to bring it back into the country that the tax man gets nasty.

[GuestHouse]

Meanwhile it should be noted:

Those legally tax free investments are more than likely invested globally (account in £ but investments held around the world) so if there is one hedge.

And all those tax contributions to pensions are guaranteed - That is 40% contributed by the tax man (a certainty) not a possibility of making money on the money markets.

years ago my efforts where concentrated on moving my life savings and assets out of the security of my home legal system and the greedy claws of my home taxman and that's how it will remain; even in the unlikely event that i am moving back to Germany one day.

The Euro has been doing pretty well on the world money markets, I'd be interested to hear what currency you put your money in that its doing any better.

But the fact remains if you are from the UK (Germany) and you are living in Thailand but you invest in a third currency then you are running two risks (Movement of rates against your Thai spending and movements of rates against your 'home' currency).

i can't follow that logic as my home currency is completely irrelevant if i don't live in my home country.

It becomes relevent if for some reason you have to leave Thailand in a hurry, health, regime change, or the inevitible changes that will come when the wise guidence that Thailand enjoys is nolonger there to temper the excesses of some of the idiot policies are frequently being thrown out.

How many people I wounder who ten years ago said they would never leave Thailand are now leaving or have already left?

If you get the calculation wrong on your money dealings then Germany/Europe may not be an option.

Edited December 9, 2007 by GuestHouse

[Naam]

So have I, and the people he picks on are people with offshore accounts - Money offshore is fine, while it remains offshore - its when you try to bring it back into the country that the tax man gets nasty.

stupid people (when acting as you mentioned) get punished on this harsh planet. that's a well known fact.

[Naam]

If you get the calculation wrong on your money dealings then Germany/Europe may not be an option.

that is correct. but any investor who has not (during the last five years) put a lot of his chips on the €URo "gambling" table has not done his/her homework.

[Naam]

How many people I wounder who ten years ago said they would never leave Thailand are now leaving or have already left?

alternatives in tax free and low cost/low tax countries do exist GuestHouse. in our personal case we couldn't afford the lifestyle we are used to in any european country (except perhaps Albania ). the home i built in Thailand would cost us (in the wilderness of Germany where land is still affordable) an estimated 2.5-3 million €URos and no way we could afford three full time employees anywhere in Europe.

[GuestHouse]

Well with all due respect, that is not answering the question.

We hear a lot about people arriving in Thailand with a fanfare blasting out their arrival - Departures are almost always very quiet.

Moving money out of your home currency (and unless we have resident permit/Thai citizenship we are guests) is always taking a risk of having burned bridges if the currency back home becomes un affordable.

The more I read here the more I am convinced few understand risk, risk assessment and risk management.