Do You Hear The Word Farang Used By Thais In A Derogatory Way?

[bendix]

This level of honesty is rare here within the farang community! At least as far as I can see on TV.

Are you sure it is not the other way round? Are you sure you are not being treated unfairly by the thais and do not feel second class? Are you sure you are not being exploited?

Words from -

a true loyal thai apologist brigade fanatic

OK, let's call it mutual rape. We're screwing each other. The tax I pay each month is enough to finance a complete incompetent Thai government department but I don't worry about that, because the flipside is that I have a truly wonderful life here.

Mutual rape? Perhaps that's a bit vulgar.

Let me call it symbiotic instead.

[sbk]

We should add a second question “How many people actually speak enough Thai to be able to tell" My guess would be less than 10%, probably less than 5%.

Thats a fair point, but the other factor is how the way it is used makes us FEEL.

Personally, I do not like the feeling of walking down a strange street and hearning whispers of FARANG FARANG. The intent is not rudeness but the feeling is.

Actually, Jingthing, it does help if you understand the rest of the sentence being used when you hear "farang farang".

Usually I hear something along the lines of "Oh, look at that farang girl, she has such lovely white skin" Or "that farang girl speaks Thai so well" or "Look how nicely that farang girl dresses"

But, if you are hearing something along the lines of " Oh look at that farang man, he is so dirty" or "Look at that farang man, he is so drunk he can't even stand up" then perhaps you shouldn't feel so much that they are being rude to you but that you are being rude to them

[astral]

No

Farang is what we are..............

Non Asian.

Thais have words for all the Asian nations the rest are Farang.

Simple, eh.

[howtoescape]

Are Farangs allowed to use word Gook? Or would people of SE Asian appearance find this offensive.

[Jingthing]

Are Farangs allowed to use word Gook? Or would people of SE Asian appearance find this offensive.

It is a very offensive word by itself. Perhaps your sentence is one example of an offensive word being used in a neutral way.

[templedog]

As a fluent Thai (Issan)/Laotian speaking American I can assure you that the word "Farang" is generally not used in a derogative manner. What's kind of funny is that the actual meaning of Farang (Fa-lung) really means "French person". When Thai/Lao people are speaking amongst themselves it's meaning then changes to a "Caucasian" person... and NOT in a derogative way. Thai/Lao don't call Caucasians "White people" in the Thai language, rather Farang as a blanket term for all Caucasian European/American/Austrailian etc. Many seem to think Farang means "foreigner" and it really doesn't... but when you think about it, if you're a Caucasian person in Southeast Asian country... you're probably a foreigner in most cases so sometimes Farang is used to mean that. Kohn tahng pa-thet (person from another country) is the closest thing I can think of that means "foreigner"... Farang is much simpler to use.

Farang would be just like using "Black" when speaking of a person of African decent... Black is not derogatory as opposed to the "N" word. As far as I know Thai/Lao people don't have a derogatory word for a Caucasian person. When a Thai/Lao person sees a Black American they don't call them Farang (as foreigner)... they would say "kohn dahm" for "black person".

I hope I described this well enough to clear up the confusion.

Hello, I am an American (NYC) living and working in Bangkok. I have a well educated (Master Degree in Cultural Studies from Chulalongkorn Univ.) Thai girlfriend, and she has explained the meaning and history of the word "farang" exactly as it is described above. Well done!! No worries when you hear it, Thais are generally simply using a term for those foreigners with fair skin, and it is not meant as an insult, unless you deserve one (an insult). Generally, it is used as an economy of speech, nothing more. Enjoy life!!!

[chanchao]

No

Farang is what we are..............

Non Asian.

Thais have words for all the Asian nations the rest are Farang.

Simple, eh.

Jesus.

Please go back to school. Farang means 'Caucasian / Westerner'. Non Asians who aren't that therefore aren't Farang.

I mean Come ON... go learn some basics about the language before posting BS.

[PeaceBlondie]

Finally, up here in an authentic part of Thailand, I asked my boyfriend what farang means. He's a Chiang Mai native, and including a year or two on Phuket Island, he's lived in Chiang Mai for 40 years. He said, "Farang means foreigner." Then he said loudly, about those who insist that it's derogatory often or always, "STUPID!"

[chanchao]

Then your boyfriend needs to go back to school too. Though more likely you can get to the bottom of this by asking "Is a Japanese person Farang?" "Is a person from Egypt Farang?" "Is a person from Nigeria Farang?". Then ask "Are those people foreign" ?

By that time you will have your answer.

I mean, I don't mind discussing this topic ad vomitum, but you'd think that most people on Thaivisa have a couple of years in Thailand under their belt and kept their eyes & ears open? [And in case of PeaceBlondies boyfriend it's just a communication issue, if you explore a bit as suggested above then I'm confident you'll arrive at a correct answer]

Edited December 6, 2007 by chanchao

[orchis]

No one can feel you make inferior without your approval.

[Jingthing]

Finally, up here in an authentic part of Thailand, I asked my boyfriend what farang means. He's a Chiang Mai native, and including a year or two on Phuket Island, he's lived in Chiang Mai for 40 years. He said, "Farang means foreigner." Then he said loudly, about those who insist that it's derogatory often or always, "STUPID!"

PB, words matter.

The premise of this thread has been about the F word being USED in a derogatory manner, not that the word itself is anything other than NEUTRAL.

Edited December 6, 2007 by Jingthing

[chanchao]

The premise of this thread has been about the F word being USED in a derogatory manner, not that the word itself is anything other than NEUTRAL.

Ah, well why didn't you say so before then.. Would have saved a lot of kilobytes worth of posts.

Any noun can be used in a derogatory manner, that's what nouns are for. Similar to "Chinese", "Thai", etc.

And in case you haven't noticed, I see the word 'Thai' (or Chinese) used in a derogatory manner on this forum quite often.

Edited December 6, 2007 by chanchao

[sbk]

No

Farang is what we are..............

Non Asian.

Thais have words for all the Asian nations the rest are Farang.

Simple, eh.

Jesus.

Please go back to school. Farang means 'Caucasian / Westerner'. Non Asians who aren't that therefore aren't Farang.

I mean Come ON... go learn some basics about the language before posting BS.

Maybe you need to go back and re-read astral's post before insulting him.

He just said that Farang are non-Asians and that the Thais have words for all the Asian nations, the rest are farang.

What part of that is not exactly the same as what you said?

[camerata]

The premise of this thread has been about the F word being USED in a derogatory manner, not that the word itself is anything other than NEUTRAL.

So, given that like other words "farang" can be used in a negative context, how is this significant? How is "scumbag farang" different from "scumbag African" or "scumbag Indian?"

[mr_hippo]

What is:-

a) a prickly-stemmed, pinnate-leaved, showy-flowered shrubs of the genus Rosa.

an ornamental plate or socket surrounding the shaft of a doorknob at the face of a door.

c) a plane polar curve consisting of three or more equal loops that meet at the origin.

d) a perforated cap or plate, as at the end of a pipe or the spout of a watering pot, to break a flow of water into a spray?

Four different definitions for one word - rose! There are many more definitions.

So what is

a) a Caucasian

a foreigner

c) a person who is non-Thai?

Three different definitions for one word - farang! Pay your money and take your choice.

Is it offensive? The word is not offensive but, depending on context, any word can be and this has been pointed out previously. "They know my name but still call me a farang", I know my eldest daughter's in-laws, I know their names but sometimes call them Taff & Blodwyn or the Welsh <deleted> - what does this prove? Absolutely nothing!

Edited December 6, 2007 by mr_hippo

[Jingthing]

The premise of this thread has been about the F word being USED in a derogatory manner, not that the word itself is anything other than NEUTRAL.

Ah, well why didn't you say so before then.. Would have saved a lot of kilobytes worth of posts.

Any noun can be used in a derogatory manner, that's what nouns are for. Similar to "Chinese", "Thai", etc.

And in case you haven't noticed, I see the word 'Thai' (or Chinese) used in a derogatory manner on this forum quite often.

Check the poll question and initial post, Sir.

[Jingthing]

The premise of this thread has been about the F word being USED in a derogatory manner, not that the word itself is anything other than NEUTRAL.

So, given that like other words "farang" can be used in a negative context, how is this significant? How is "scumbag farang" different from "scumbag African" or "scumbag Indian?"

It's not. Except for the generality of the farang word compared to Indian which is more specific. Duh. Did I ever say any differently? However, I will make the outrageous assumption that most of the readers here are farang, so I thought we might want to discuss this. Being slurred. I guess I was right, eh?

Edited December 6, 2007 by Jingthing

[HS Mauberley]

The premise of this thread has been about the F word being USED in a derogatory manner, not that the word itself is anything other than NEUTRAL.

So, given that like other words "farang" can be used in a negative context, how is this significant? How is "scumbag farang" different from "scumbag African" or "scumbag Indian?"

It's not. Except for the generality of the farang word compared to Indian which is more specific. Duh. Did I ever say any differently? However, I will make the outrageous assumption that most of the readers here are farang, so I thought we might want to discuss this. Being slurred. I guess I was right, eh?

You're doing a sterling job of ignoring the fact that you have already admitted that the overwhelming majority of the respondents to your poll are wholly unqualified to answer. Keep it up.

[Jingthing]

Keep it up.

I am afraid I can't. Look, I ain't the hall monitor. This subject, this thread, it is what it is.

Speaking of which, I have a new question we talked about before, but still unclear on.

When a Thai who knows you, still describes you as farang rather than your name, nationality, or whatever more specific ... would most Thai's consider this a rude usage?

I find it rude but if the person who is doing it doesn't think it is rude, then it isn't really rude. Of course, in the west, such usage would be very rude. Talking about your old friend Alex Wong, hey that Chinaman has bought a new car!

I think it is pretty common in Thailand for the F word to used alot even after the Thai person could speak about the person alot more specifically, don't y'all agree with that?

Edited December 6, 2007 by Jingthing

[HS Mauberley]

When a Thai who knows you, still describes you as farang rather than your name, nationality, or whatever more specific ... would most Thai's consider this a rude usage?

I find it rude but if the person who is doing it doesn't think it is rude, then it isn't really rude. Of course, in the west, such usage would be very rude. Talking about your old friend Alex Wong, hey that Chinaman has bought a new car!

If Thais use 'farang' in a context similar to your example, I really think that the answer is no. But then I'm not a fluent Thai speaker. However, I don't think the example is necessarily rude (if we swapped 'that Chinaman', which, unlike 'farang', always sounds rude, with the less pejorative, 'the Chinese guy' and we were distinguishing between Alex Wong from China and Alex Wong from Taiwan.)

[chanchao]

No

Farang is what we are..............

Non Asian.

Thais have words for all the Asian nations the rest are Farang.

Simple, eh.

Jesus.

Please go back to school. Farang means 'Caucasian / Westerner'. Non Asians who aren't that therefore aren't Farang.

I mean Come ON... go learn some basics about the language before posting BS.

Maybe you need to go back and re-read astral's post before insulting him.

He just said that Farang are non-Asians and that the Thais have words for all the Asian nations, the rest are farang.

What part of that is not exactly the same as what you said?

Jesus (2)

The "The rest are Farang" - part. Because the rest are NOT all Farang. The rest includes Africans, Arabs, Eskimos, Native Americans, and so on and so forth, AND Farang.

Although it doesn't seem like it on this forum, there's a lot more people in the world than just Westerners. (=Farang)

Astral made it sound like Farangs is everyone non-Asian. Astral claimed 'we' are Farang even though we know for sure many forum members aren't. Astral made it sound like Farangs were somehow singled out in the way they're lumped together when in fact they're not. It's no different from Europeans usually preferring to identify other Europeans by the country of origin simply because they're near, and distinction between a German and Frenchman is required. When it comes to Asians or Africans from a European perspective, it becomes less granular. Same same.

Anyway, always happy to explain. It's the teacher with a streak for scorching sarcasm in me..

Edited December 6, 2007 by chanchao

[Jingthing]

If Thais use 'farang' in a context similar to your example, I really think that the answer is no. But then I'm not a fluent Thai speaker. However, I don't think the example is necessarily rude (if we swapped 'that Chinaman', which, unlike 'farang', always sounds rude, with the less pejorative, 'the Chinese guy' and we were distinguishing between Alex Wong from China and Alex Wong from Taiwan.)

You seem to be saying that the word Chinaman is NOT a neutral word in the west. I would agree. But the example wasn't really referring to that issue, so I don't think my question was answered. The point was the speaker knew the person's name and not using it when you know it is indeed rude in the west. So for sure this is not also rude in Thailand? I am not yet fully convinced. I think it is a relevant question (rude or not) because I do think Thai people do this quite often.

Edited December 6, 2007 by Jingthing

[HS Mauberley]

If Thais use 'farang' in a context similar to your example, I really think that the answer is no. But then I'm not a fluent Thai speaker. However, I don't think the example is necessarily rude (if we swapped 'that Chinaman', which, unlike 'farang', always sounds rude, with the less pejorative, 'the Chinese guy' and we were distinguishing between Alex Wong from China and Alex Wong from Taiwan.)

You seem to be saying that the word Chinaman is NOT a neutral word in the west. I would agree. But the example wasn't really referring to that issue, so I don't think my question was answered. The point was the speaker knew the person's name and not using it when you know it is indeed rude in the west. So for sure this is not also rude in Thailand? I am not yet fully convinced. I think it is a relevant question (rude or not) because I do think Thai people do this quite often.

Is your question:

a - Do Thais commonly use farang in place of names, when referring to individuals in the third person?

or

b - Is it rude for Thais to use farang in place of names, when referring to individuals in the third person?

The answer to a is probably yes.

The answer to b is probably no.

Again, I'm not a fluent Thai speaker so my answers are probably as meaningless as those of anyone else. The fact that the answer to 'Is it rude for English-speakers to use nationalities in place of names?' is sometimes yes, is irrelevant to question b.

Edited December 6, 2007 by HS Mauberley

[mr_hippo]

...so I don't think my question was answered. The point was the speaker knew the person's name and not using it when you know it is indeed rude in the west. So for sure this is not also rude in Thailand? I am not yet fully convinced. I think it is a relevant question (rude or not) because I do think Thai people do this quite often.

It has been answered a few times but you either did not read it or chose to ignore it so I will repeat it:- "They know my name but still call me a farang"; I know my eldest daughter's in-laws very well, I know their names but sometimes call them Taff & Blodwyn or the Welsh <deleted> - what does this prove? Absolutely nothing!

They could also be using 'farang' as a term of affection.

[WaiWai]

Would you teach your English-learning students to use "farang", or some other form of reference ?

[bendix]

For heaven's sake, will some kindly moderator please take pity on Jingthing and put him out of his misery? This is getting embarassing.

[Jingthing]

HS

Again, I'm not a fluent Thai speaker so my answers are probably as meaningless as those of anyone else. The fact that the answer to 'Is it rude for English-speakers to use nationalities in place of names?' is sometimes yes, is irrelevant to question b.

Well, a comment from someone much more expert on Thai language/culture might mean something. That is just your opinion. My opinion is: I don't know.

Edited December 6, 2007 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

For heaven's sake, will some kindly moderator please take pity on Jingthing and put him out of his misery? This is getting embarassing.

And yet

And yet

You keep coming back here ...

I kindly suggest you get back to your raping and pillaging of Thailand, and leave the posting sluts in peace.

Edited December 6, 2007 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

...so I don't think my question was answered. The point was the speaker knew the person's name and not using it when you know it is indeed rude in the west. So for sure this is not also rude in Thailand? I am not yet fully convinced. I think it is a relevant question (rude or not) because I do think Thai people do this quite often.

It has been answered a few times but you either did not read it or chose to ignore it so I will repeat it:- "They know my name but still call me a farang"; I know my eldest daughter's in-laws very well, I know their names but sometimes call them Taff & Blodwyn or the Welsh <deleted> - what does this prove? Absolutely nothing!

They could also be using 'farang' as a term of affection.

I am not following your point at all.

I think it is obvious that this would usually be rude in the West. It does mean something there (RUDE), so now you say it doesn't, so I am also supposed to believe you know what you are talking about in Thai culture when you don't even acknowledge an obvious thing about Western cultures?

Edited December 6, 2007 by Jingthing

[HS Mauberley]

HS

Again, I'm not a fluent Thai speaker so my answers are probably as meaningless as those of anyone else. The fact that the answer to 'Is it rude for English-speakers to use nationalities in place of names?' is sometimes yes, is irrelevant to question b.

Well, a comment from someone much more expert on Thai language/culture might mean something. That is just your opinion.

Well I've never asked my wife exactly "Is it rude for Thais to use farang in place of names, when referring to individuals in the third person?" but I have asked her "Is it rude for Thais to use the word farang". Guess what the answer was? Here's a clue - you've heard it quite a few times already on the previous 16 pages. The answer was........."No. Generally not but obviously it depends on the context." Clearly, you're determined to pursue this and will continue to ignore the fact that everyone who has responded from the persepective of a Thai speaker has said exactly the same thing.

Edited December 6, 2007 by HS Mauberley