"methodology" is often misinterpreted or ill-understood... especially by the kaosarn road brigade amongst you

however we CELTA qualified teachers know all about the different methods available & i'd just like to know which one you found to be most productive? state reasons & give examples...

I did my TEFL cert 10 years ago... I don't think we had the rhythm method and the otter method in those days!

You say:

"methodology" is often misinterpreted or ill-understood... especially by the kaosarn road brigade amongst you

Oh dear... You must BE one of the Khaosarn road brigade...

Really, you should know the difference between methods, approaches and techniques. They're not the same. What a bad ad for CELTA you are.

Is Community Language Teaching similar in any way to CommuniCATIVE Language teaching?

I know they cover all this on the CELTA course - we certainly do on ours.

The answer is, of course, to use an amalgam of all the above, appropriate for your students learning needs. Would that come under 'otter'?

I think Boots are doing a buy-two-get-one-free on Kleenex should you want to wipe some of the egg off your face...

Still, at least the Rhythm Method joke was funny - chin up.

Let the otter win.

You say:

"methodology" is often misinterpreted or ill-understood... especially by the kaosarn road brigade amongst you

Oh dear... You must BE one of the Khaosarn road brigade...

Really, you should know the difference between methods, approaches and techniques. They're not the same. What a bad ad for CELTA you are.

Is Community Language Teaching similar in any way to CommuniCATIVE Language teaching?

I know they cover all this on the CELTA course - we certainly do on ours.

The answer is, of course, to use an amalgam of all the above, appropriate for your students learning needs. Would that come under 'otter'?

I think Boots are doing a buy-two-get-one-free on Kleenex should you want to wipe some of the egg off your face...

Still, at least the Rhythm Method joke was funny - chin up.

well indeed... i go to the trouble of starting a poll to encourage debate on the vaious methodologies & get flamed by a newbie... i can tell from your post that you obviously don't advocate the 'silent approach'...

the 'otter' method was simply a typo... i don't have the facility to change it

perhaps being such an expert 'although Samui' is hardly the centre of ELT is it? a proper teacher would surely study at a well known & recognised centre of learning, seems to me it's beach bums over there...

anyway.. tell us more about about the difference between methods, approaches and techniques... lets see if we can all learn sumfing... cos that't the whole point of the thread after all

You say:

"methodology" is often misinterpreted or ill-understood... especially by the kaosarn road brigade amongst you 

Oh dear... You must BE one of the Khaosarn road brigade...

Really, you should know the difference between methods, approaches and techniques. They're not the same.  What a bad ad for CELTA you are.

Is Community Language Teaching similar in any way to CommuniCATIVE Language teaching?

I know they cover all this on the CELTA course - we certainly do on ours.

The answer is, of course, to use an amalgam of all the above, appropriate for your students learning needs.  Would that come under 'otter'?

I think Boots are doing a buy-two-get-one-free on Kleenex should you want to wipe some of the egg off your face...

Still, at least the Rhythm Method joke was funny - chin up.

Clearly , harry is clueless, and his bluff crap on teaching only flies with other clueless sods such as himself.

You can be anonymous here and call yourself anything you like, even a teacher, if that's what turns your crank, Frank.

Just don't come in here and try to con REAL TEACHERS with your Mumbo-Jumbo, Dumbo.

At least Harry makes the effort to start some threads (and they even have something to do with teaching

Any other ideas in regards to teaching methodologies? Before we go offffffff topic (again)!

Nice try Harry, did you mean newbie to this board or newbie to teaching?

Why is 'although Samui' in inverted commas? Vaious (sic) approaches to punctuation as well as spelling?

Samui is, indeed, only A centre for ELT. It would surprise me to meet any trained EFL teachers on my...er...EFL training course too - not quite sure where you're going with that one... It IS nice to put my bum on the beach from time to time though, our students all say the same - that old green eyed monster's not rearing its ugly head is it?

I just needed to highlight the fact that there is, indeed, a lot of confusion about methodologies as your post so gloriously demonstrates and responding to the fact that a CELTA (nor my course) does not immune your pomposity to puncture.

Your original post came across as someone trying to denegrate any non-CELTA holders and your list is confused (from a teachers perspective) and confusing (from the perspective of someone new to teaching). TPR is PART of the Natural Approach. Honestly!

You are also ASTONISHINGLY conspicuous in your lack of supplying your OWN preferences - with reasons and examples. Leading from the rear eh?

I must say, in the interests of fairness, that you are probably in the minority of CELTA graduates with the level of confusion you demonstrate.

ON topic (sorry Mod, sorry Mod) I would like to say that I've currently been experimenting with Total Physical Response Storytelling (not on your list Harry, score one for the otter). It's a development from TPR and has the main advantages of the Natural Approaches whence it sprang. I do this on a voluntary basis. I'm still a little unconvinced by the lack of - for want of a softer word - pressure applied to Ss to actually vocalise (as I have for most of the Natural family) but the technique DOES work very well for beginner groups - of all ages - and undoubtedly leads to the highest motivation/attendence rates I've experienced teaching in LoS. That is probably because the Ss don't HAVE to be there though - I only get the ones that WANT to be, always a bonus. We have a lot of fun and I'm satisfied that it's a good way to motivate students to learn. I doubt I will use it in isolation though (see below).

I'm still learning though & I would love to hear from anyone else using it in LoS. I can recommend some books (Students Guides, workbooks etc etc) for anyone interested in learning more - PM me.

TEFL on SAMUI also hopes (only hoping so far) to have a guest session in the new year from one of the main people involved in developing TPRS. We may have room for interested parties. Again, PM me.

I do believe that, in the real world, there needs to be a mix of the above. All of the Approaches, Methods and Techniques have their strengths and weaknesses and good EFL work, for me, is in identifying which is going to work best for each particular lesson's objectives. Sticking to one only is only going to stagnate the teacher and the students. The otter is two up now, surely?

They're all just tools in the box - to set up Harry's next gag...

Now, I've answered your question, Harry, why don't YOU go back over your 'Oh-so-magnificent' CELTA notes (doubtlessly obtained in a centre of excellence) and tell us all what THEY have to say about the difference between Approaches, Methodologies & Techniques. If you've lost them, try a Google search. Or buy a book - I can recommend a few if you're stuck.

I am a teacher after all and I believe that "I hear, I forget. I see, I remember. I do, I understand". - and maybe you'd learn something you claim to have learned already.

THEN I'll show you mine.

Good Silent Approach gag though... Cuisinaire rods are SO 20th Century.

Come on the otter!

i want to keep this one on-topic otherwise the power mad kk will lock it down, so...

TOS (TEFL on SAMUI), i can call you TOS, can't i? i was amused to read your , did i hit on a raw nerve or two?

please do recommend a few books on the difference between Approaches, Methodologies & Techniques... do they have books in Samui then? i'm sure other teachers in this forum would welcome the benefit of you advice... i myself have a thorough understanding of the theory & practice of many of these being DELTA qualified & having taught in many of the premier language schools worldwide, including the LoS (not to get mixed up with TOS)...

wy so hostile on the topic of cuisinaire rods, i have used them successfully on many occasions?

i meant newbie to the board in the guise of TOS...

i want to keep this one on-topic otherwise the power mad kk will lock it down, so...

TOS (TEFL on SAMUI), i can call you TOS, can't i? i was amused to read your , did i hit on a raw nerve or two?

please do recommend a few books on the difference between Approaches, Methodologies & Techniques... do they have books in Samui then?  i'm sure other teachers in this forum would welcome the benefit of you advice... i myself have a thorough understanding of the theory & practice of many of these being DELTA qualified & having taught in many of the premier language schools worldwide, including the LoS (not to get mixed up with TOS)...

...

Liar, Liar, are your pants on fire?

You are one of the most illiterate writers in this forum, and students are supposed to learn from you? In your above post, I don't see even one grammatically correct sentence. You really need to learn about correct grammar, punctuation, capitalization, and spelling before you will ever be a credible teacher. We all make mistakes, but anyone who takes the time to read a mass of your postings can see that your 'mistakes' are by habit, not mistake. You are illiterate.

Pudgi has hit the nail on the head 100%. If you're smart, you will listen to him. He knows what he's talking about, unlike you.

Liar, Liar, are your pants on fire?

You are one of the most illiterate writers in this forum, and students are supposed to learn from you? In your above post, I don't see even one grammatically correct sentence. You really need to learn about correct grammar, punctuation, capitalization, and spelling before you will ever be a credible teacher. We all make mistakes, but anyone who takes the time to read a mass of your postings can see that your 'mistakes' are by habit, not mistake. You are illiterate.

i don't actually conduct my money earning lessons from this forum & as a result feel less constrained to dot the t's & cross the i's when posting... i had assumed that i was addressing semi-intelligent teachers... instead i find myself in debate with base neanderthals, such as yourself...

you obviously feel inferior to me hence the attack...

if you do have any useful opinions on the post topic then please do share them with us, but of course you don't...

i am pleased to know that you have been reading my mass of posts on this board, maybe you will learn something yourself, cos the dull stuff that you write about is slightly less interesting than watching paint dry...

Hi HP

ToS (small 'o', if you please). I feel we can now consider ourselves on acronym terms...

We only have sheaves of Coconut-palm fronds bound together by creepers here ON Samui (not 'in' - it's a tricky preposition that one, eh?), obviously

My query is based on your assertion that CELTA grads were aware of the differences. I now learn you are DELTA qualified as well and yet still exhibit, IN YOUR POLL, total confusion on the difference...

Cuisinaire rods was just a joke, it was meant to be said in a patronising tone of voice (HP: patronising means when you talk down to people )

I must, however, confess a somewhat morbid curiosity as to what, exactly, you actually used them FOR......?

Still no news on which you prefer and why. No, post-DELTA, reference book suggestions of your own to make? If we are to have an exchange of ideas (I've answered your question, remember?) you will have to be a bit more forthcoming. Really.

Maitembot: Wouldn't that make them 'errors'? Not mistakes. Looks like the otter has it, eh?

my dear ToS... a for the coconut-palm gag...

yes the DELTA... only just qualified you know... returned to london especially to do it at the same place i did me CELTA... cos they are a good bunch you know.. i'm hoping to get back to the LoS soom & find employment training some of the wannabe teachers over there, i was so appalled with the standard of teacher training that i felt i had to do someting about it, with the help of the good lord...

cuisinaire rods... my favourite use of these little beauties is when teaching word-stress... i guess on samui you could use some twigs & stuff from the coconut trees to make your own...

International House Central London...?

They Rock. Shame there's (as yet...watch this space) no comparable 'secondary level' qualification in LoS eh? How did you find being back in Blighty?

And, just a minor point:

Which. Bleedin'. Method. Or. Whatever. Do. YOU. Prefer. And. Why?

You come across more nervous than a long-tailed cat in a rocking chair factory.

We got Durianaire rods here. Involve ALL the senses I say...

Can I have TWO stars for that one...?

Have you got more than 5 years Post-Cert. Experience as a Teacher? Pretty much a pre-requisite for TT organisations.

quote: what i'm looking for is an equivalent to an anne summers store, a well know lingerie chain operation in engerland.

H.P

During your training on the CELTA or was it DELTA course in England, did they not inform you that you should always use a capital I when writing about ones self?

I am sure even the Khaosarn road brigade were taught that one at primary school.

H.P

A tip from the Khaosarn road brigade, always proof read and stop trying to sound like a well educated person,you just dont cut it!!!

Sorry ukman, can't resist...

You said:

"H.P

A tip from the Khaosarn road brigade, always proof read and stop trying to sound like a well educated person,you just dont cut it!!!"

You need a colon after the word 'brigade', 'well-educated' is hyphenated, there should be a space after a comma and "don't" requires the apostrophe as it's a contraction. That makes 4 proof reading errors in 25 words - not bad. The Grauniad will take you on...

Can I put this in my new dictionary under 'Irony'?

People who live in glass houses should undress in the basement...

Out of interest, which one did you vote for and why?

I can't wait to get flamed for my next typo...

^Mate I actually had a post all written out saying similar things, felt a bit of a pedant though. I didn't know if it should be for or from? If it's for then he also makes singular and plural mistakes.

Should the R on road be capitalised as it's a proper name? Or should I go back to school?

^ and ^^: I agree that this is one of the few times it's absolutely appropriate to be a Grammar Nazi- when someone slagging someone else's grammar is so hilariously bad at it himself. You guys only picked out one sentence, to boot!

Ken- yes, that's another necessary change as far as I know.

"Steven"

quote: what i'm looking for is an equivalent to an anne summers store, a well know lingerie chain operation in engerland.  

H.P

  During your training on the CELTA or was it DELTA course in England, did they not inform you that you should always use a capital I when writing about ones self?

I am sure even the Khaosarn road brigade were taught that one at primary school.

H.P

A tip from the Khaosarn road brigade, always proof read and stop trying to sound like a well educated person,you just dont cut it!!!

i see my colleagues have given you a little spanking, richly deserved in my opinion

anyway, i welcome you to the teachers forum, hope your stay will be long & beneficial... it's always nice to receive a tip from a genuine Khaosarn road hippie...

i will try & post a bit on methodologies tomorrow... bit busy at the moment working on a lecture i'm giving at the end of the month...

It seems many of the methodologies being discussed are more "strategies" oriented. In my opinion, methodology should also include student motivation, a way of teaching the students to learn more on their own. So here is my take on the subject:

There are two ways to motivate students into performing well in a classroom environment: extrinsic or intrinsic. Extrinsic motivation means that students get concrete, external rewards for doing work. This includes candy, certificates, special favors, etc. Intrinsic motivation is just the opposite. The reward for performing well in class comes from within, that is, the reward for doing well in class is an internal feeling of accomplishment. The central focus of my classroom should not be entirely on me, as a teacher and a fountain of knowledge. Instead, I want to share the focus of the class with informational finding and understanding. To accomplish this, I want to set the student's feet on a particular path of knowledge, and let them (the students) lead the way. My role then becomes facilitator, answering questions and keeping students on the chosen path of the day. While the central focus of my classroom is student understanding, that understanding comes through my intervention in making curriculum knowledge accessible. In short, I plan the route, and let students lead the way through discussion, acting, writing, and various exercises. This focus, in turn, leads to creating my ideal learning environment that stimulates learning through teacher/student interaction, gives students hope through having a teacher listen to them, establishes trust between students and the teacher through the teacher working with, instead of against, the students, and has limited, but directed, teacher intervention. This, in turn, leads to intrinsic motivation for students to do well in my class.

In order for intrinsic motivational strategies to successfully work in my class, it is important for me to demonstrate to students how successful participation in my class obtains intrinsic satisfaction. One way I do this is through class discussion. In class discussion, I try not to squelch student comments by saying that they are incorrect; instead, I stress the building of vocalized comments. If one student gives a general answer to a specific question, I tell the student that s/he is right, and ask for more comments to build on that student's answer. Each answer builds upon each other until the entire class is involved in a critical discussion in the current discussion topic. What students learn from this is a feeling (internal) that they are right. In other words, that active participation brings with it its own rewards, that of being heard and acknowledged rather than heard and slapped down.

This same strategy works for written assignments as well. I grade written assignments in three different categories: structure (physical form of the assignment), content (the actual ideas being expressed), and grammar (the mechanics of writing). What this does is allow a student a sense of inner accomplishment through not penalizing a student if one category of a written assignment is not perfect. If a student has excellent content, but bad grammar, that student should not be castigated for grammar. Instead, the content should be praised so that the student has a feeling of inner accomplishment. Grammar, then, can be worked on later without the student thinking that s/he does everything wrong when it comes to writing. Intrinsic motivation, therefore, becomes the drive for students to constantly improve through the good internal feeling they get when accomplishing assignments and goals set within my classroom environment.

And this is for you, Harry - a list of books on teaching methodology:

"Discipline and Punish" by Foucault

"The Progressive Classroom" by John Dewey (or anything by him)

"Positive Classroom Discipline" by Fredric Jones

"Discipline through Democratic Teaching" by Rudolf Dreikur

"Instructional Management and Democratic Teaching" by Jacob Kounin

"Discipline as Self Control" by Thomas Gordon

"Noncoersive Discipline" by William Glasser

"Discipline with Dignity" by Richard Curwin and Allen Mendler

** The above books are an excellent introduction to teaching philosophy and methodology**

"Assertive Discipline" by Leo and Marlene Canter

"Transactional Analysis" by Eric Berne and Thomas Harris

**The above books are for those who like a more Draconian approach to teaching**

Discipline and Punish is NOT Draconian???

"Steven"

It's more of an explanation, rather than a set methodology. It's what NOT to do!