I'm Going To Court: Suing A Thai

[cm-happy]

Here are the details! what do you think, will I prevail?

Dec 2006 loaned 30,000 B to a local buisiness man, a karoak/bar owner close to my house that I frequented. I got to know the guy and became friendly with him. He approached me about the loan.

Had a loan agreement made up by my attorney(signed by all parties & witnessed by attorneys) stipulating the loan to be paid by Apr. of 2007, no interest charged.

Apr. comes and Thai guy says he cannot pay back all at once, so made gentleman's agreement that he repay a small amount every month.

May repaid 2000 B after that NOTHING!

repeated attempts by myself and attorney to collect have resulted in nothing. So on attorney advice am sueing him in court for the balance due(28,000), interest since May, court costs and attorney fees.

Ps the defendant is a low level police officer in the local amphur, not that it matters or maybe it does. Not a patrol officer but more of a clerical position.

Think I have a shot at justice? or just smoke and mirrors to placate the farang. Attorney thinks it's a no brainer for me to win the suite, and says that courts will hound the guy until he pays up and may eventually confiscate some of his assets to satisfy the debt if I win.

It'l be interesting

[LeungKen]

Be sure to keep notes and please keep us informed as to progress.

Cheers & Good Luck.

[davejonesbkk]

Is it worth it? You need that 28k? I think that I'd leave it, especially with him being cop....

[geoffphuket]

Good luck - Maybe you'll win, but if he hasn't got the 28,000 then you'll still not get your money - court order or not

[soundman]

Why don't you open a tab at the karaoke bar & run it up to 28k of booze & hostess charges?

[Neeranam]

Forget it - write it off as a bad loan and don't do it again. Not worth all the hassle and could be dangerous.

[mpdkorat]

It is a tradition in Thailand not to pay back loans, personally I would forget it.

[jonniebkk]

never loan money to people...farangs or thais...have to think like a bank...only lend money to people who don't need it

people who need to borrow money are by defnintion bad risks...especially low-income/poor people (again thai or farang). you will almost never get your money back...must consider it a "gift." only consider such gifts if the person has something they can give you in trade (not cash) like in the case of a female, a little companionship gratis

however, considering your situation, soundman's advice sounds pretty sound to me

[cmsally]

If you really have to make a loan, then make sure you get collateral for when they default.

Contracts are not worth the paper they are written on for loans. Even if you win the case, he proves he has nothing to pay you back and he goes to jail (maybe?). You still don't get your money back. Plus you have to pay legal costs and waste your time.

[slapout]

I am guessing you are a non Thai. Check the past history of court action by non-thais against Thais in this legal system. The cases here in Chiang Mai and others I have heard about were not very sucessful for the non Thai. You know your lawyer,bar owners connections, length of time for proceedings to conclude, etc. I would hope. Read the newspapers here and note how the court cases can drag out for years, and many of the people are experts at hiding assets, getting court postponements, paying off govt officials, calling in owed favors etc. What makes your lawyer think the court will hound anyone if you win, he must live in a different Thailand than I do. You talked him into a 2000 baht payment once, try taking the reminder out at his bar in trade, as I am guessing you have spent some time the .

[cm-happy]

Why don't you open a tab at the karaoke bar & run it up to 28k of booze & hostess charges?

Good suggestion. Actually had thought of that but for 28 K would be tossed all the time or maybe all friends go there for binging

[donna]

i suspect the legal fees will far outweigh the 28k owed.

[asiaworld]

wow.. that says a lot about the ex-pats based here. Look if you don't even consider legal system to be fair here, what makes you stay in such a "lawless land" ..

Cm-happy IMHO if you had sence to use lawyer, when giving the loan, what makes you think now.. As your attorney hae told you, it does seem to be a clear case.. So nothing much to worry about.. Thailand may be just a bit anti-foreign,

But Nowhere near as bad , as to deny you justice !

[AA1]

About 3 years ago my wife, lent some money to her son's teacher and through her to 2 or 3 other parents, - all confirming loan on copy of Identity card. The other parents paid the money back to the teacher who then failed to pass it on to my wife. Now teacher owes the lot. When asked for repayment says 'later, later'!! Unless a legally binding agreement is made by the end of the year between the teacher and my wife the case, in the first instance, will be passed over to lawyers. This could prove very embarassing for the teacher as technically my wife has not been repaid by the other parents as she still has their loan papers and has not been repaid via the teacher so either one can say they had made a loan to the teacher or she has stollen the money from my wife!! Unlike your case where the loanee is self employed, ours is employed so hopefully one will end up with installment payments through her school salary.

Good luck and keep us informed of your progress as we may end up going down your avenue.

[AA1]

p.s. it is a matter of principle rather than the money.

[mattias33]

As others said. Just leave it. I could go a long way to proof myself right and others wrong, sometimes for nothing, just general principles says this guy deserves to get suid. But then again for you personally it just sounds like alot of hassle over almost nothing. You already took the time with your attorneys, with the Thaivisa posting and now your going through with suing him. Id say live it. Not worth it for so little money. Like others also mentioned: if he infact dont have 28k you will not get any money anyway. Let it go!

I think if a farang is suing a Thai, it is going to be problems and maybe even dangerous. It would have to be alot of money if i should ever consider such an act. Gotta remember there is also the whole "faceloosing"-thing with the Thais. They hate when other people know how poor they are. Sometimes that fact makes them do serious things aswell. Worth to take under consideration. God luck anyway, however you do.

[onzestan]

I cannot believe that the majority of the reply's here are to let him get away with stealing, because that's what it is.

Ok maybe the OP made a mistake lending money to a Thai person, and maybe the OP should be careful but I'm convinced that many similar problems are the result of the laissez-faire attitude of us falangs.

Nobody should get away with a criminal act.

My 2 cents

onzestan

[cm-happy]

i suspect the legal fees will far outweigh the 28k owed.

Actually Donna, the attorneys fees have only been 6.5 K to date. No idea what the courts costs will be.

As an aside forgot to mention in original post court date is set for 9 AM Jan 24.

Ill keep ppl posted as to the result.

[malcolminthemiddle]

p.s. it is a matter of principle rather than the money.

Never sue for principal alone, there is no $ value in it.

[slapout]

I guess asiaworld was referring my post above, so as to answer his question about why I stay in this" lawless land", his words not mine. I do not get involved with business deals here and try not to break local laws, so I dont need to worry about the legal system here on my account. I would not show my lack of understanding of the Thai (legal process) by calling it lawless. Thailand seems to have quite a number of laws and are passing more on a weekly basis if we can believe the news accounts. I try to be objective in my thinking about life and living in general and no I do not consider the legal systems of many countries, like life itself,to be fair, but it is better than the alternative.

[onzestan]

p.s. it is a matter of principle rather than the money.

Never sue for principal alone, there is no $ value in it.

Maybe principals have no value for you, but for me and I'm sure for many others, they sure have a lot of value, plus the fact that monetary value is not the only thing worth fighting for.

onzestan

Edited December 2, 2007 by onzestan

[geoffphuket]

i suspect the legal fees will far outweigh the 28k owed.

Actually Donna, the attorneys fees have only been 6.5 K to date. No idea what the courts costs will be.

As an aside forgot to mention in original post court date is set for 9 AM Jan 24.

Ill keep ppl posted as to the result.

The court fee probably won't amount to much. When I divorced my previous (Thai) wife and took her to court to recover money for property I'd paid for, Nine hearings and two years later the bill was just over 2,000 Baht - Of course the Lawyers getting 20% of the proceeds of the sale

[blizzard]

justice is not relevant here. you judgement is what needs working on.

[asiaworld]

I guess asiaworld was referring my post above, so as to answer his question about why I stay in this" lawless land", his words not mine. I do not get involved with business deals here and try not to break local laws, so I dont need to worry about the legal system here on my account. I would not show my lack of understanding of the Thai (legal process) by calling it lawless. Thailand seems to have quite a number of laws and are passing more on a weekly basis if we can believe the news accounts. I try to be objective in my thinking about life and living in general and no I do not consider the legal systems of many countries, like life itself,to be fair, but it is better than the alternative.

Nothing personal , if you've noticed it's general attitude displayed by many posters .. Well it's their land, so lets bend over,

cause thais are always right, even when they wrong .. Saaad really . It's just another country, NOT another planet

[toptuan]

It is a tradition in Thailand not to pay back loans, personally I would forget it.

I have made dozens of loans to Thai. Only one did not pay theirs back, and it was small (3,000 baht). Maybe ya just gotta choose your friends better?

[DragonQuest]

its not worth the time and effort, you will lose anyways, if not lots of money, but you also lose face, its not alot of money, just dont do it anymore, lesson learnt, get over it, Learn from my mistake here in thailand.

[PeaceBlondie]

Not counting loans to my partner, which he's always paid back, I've only leant money twice in Thailand, both times to farang. The first, a notorious type, paid me back! The second guy gave me title to a new pickup truck, and paid me back. Oh wait, there was that other farang who never repaid me a cent of 13,000 baht. So, now I always say I do not lend money except to my sex partner.

[pnustedt]

We're going through the legal process to recover a loan at the moment. Over Bt100K is outstanding, and the debtor would not respond to demands for repayment after several years. The wife took the matter to court through a solicitor, the court has now put the debtors house up for sale and he has suddenly started trying to negotiate a "settlement" which we are referring straight to the solicitor.

The fees are about Bt7K but it is worth it and we are now confident that the loan will be repaid one way or another.

[soundman]

We're going through the legal process to recover a loan at the moment. Over Bt100K is outstanding, and the debtor would not respond to demands for repayment after several years. The wife took the matter to court through a solicitor, the court has now put the debtors house up for sale and he has suddenly started trying to negotiate a "settlement" which we are referring straight to the solicitor.

The fees are about Bt7K but it is worth it and we are now confident that the loan will be repaid one way or another.

Did the court award interest as well as lawyers costs?

We had an eighteen wheel truck involved in an accident five years ago. Repair bill for truck quoted at one million baht. Insurance refused to pay on the basis that they thought the driver had been drinking (which was complete hogwash - any excuse not to pay a bill).

Anyway, after five years in the courts, the case was found in our favour & the insurance company (now defunct & owned by another company) was ordered to pay our leagl costs, court costs, the repair bill, loss of earnings calculated at 1250B per day (we asked for 2000B per day) & interest at 1.5% per month on those lost earnings.

Soundman.

[naka]

Just say NO.

Naka.