Farang Driver Running Away After An Accident...

[onlooker]

It's a real 'pot kettle black' situation here.

Seems most people, and even Embassies, condone doing a runner - just the type of activity, which if done by a Thai comes in for unanimous derision and criticism by posters on this board.

In summary . . . Thais shouldn't flee the scene, because they are Thai but farangs should because they are farangs.

[sweetchariot]

I am lucky that I have not had an accident in Thailand, but before reading this thread would not have dreamed of leaving the scene of an accident. Now I am having second thoughts. Would you end up in trouble for leaving the scene to go to the nearest Police Station, or would this be acceptable to the Police due to the potential intimidation/ agression that you would face, which I am sure they know happens if it is a prevalent as the posters here say it is.

[chiang mai]

I am lucky that I have not had an accident in Thailand, but before reading this thread would not have dreamed of leaving the scene of an accident. Now I am having second thoughts. Would you end up in trouble for leaving the scene to go to the nearest Police Station, or would this be acceptable to the Police due to the potential intimidation/ agression that you would face, which I am sure they know happens if it is a prevalent as the posters here say it is.

I'm also having second thoughts and wonder what the right thing is to do. I guess the risk of aggression from the police is more palatable to that of an angry mob although I wonder how I would react instinctively in that situation. My guess is that I would want to help the other guy but that sounds like it could be a costly instinct - hmm, moral dilemma.

[chanchao]

Helping those in need is NOT ever a dilemma.

So far nothing has happened but I often wonder what I would do if involved or even witnessed an accident.

Oh, I've witnessed loads of accidents, and in the few occasions that there wasn't already plenty of folks there to help or call police/rescue people, I've stopped to help.

One time a pick-up hit a motorcycle and sped off, with the motorcycle (& rider) in the middle of the street. It was at night and not very well lit either. So I used my truck to block the crashed bike and turned on all the alert-lights. Then some people showed up who called the police, and after the police came the police truck could take over from me illiminating the site. They also checked the debris from the pick-up to establish the make and model and then radioed this in to police at checkpoints to catch the perp..

Another time I nearly ran over an unconscious guy who was lying in the fast lane of a provincial highway! So I stopped, pulled him on to the middle partition, then drove to the nearest police booth to get help. Went back with the police guy to indicate the spot, then the police called the Rescue truck. Turns out the guy was just passed out drunk, but still being in the position he was in it's quite likely he would otherwise never have woken up..

And I've helped people who just had their vehicle break down.. As Thais have done for me when I had my vehicle break down in the past.

Anyway, if you're a member of society you does your duty in society. Otherwise you have no place there, and ESPECIALLY if you actually caused the accident, then it's breaking the law even.. (Actually not helping when you could help is breaking the law as well). But the basic premise is that if you can help, you help. Period.

Edited December 10, 2007 by chanchao

[intumult]

Have a friend here, in the middle of Thailand who's family own a large transport trucking business. I see their trucks all over the place.

I recall him telling me one night, that when his Fahter founded the business, way back when, his explicit intructions to drivers, were, in the case of hitting someone, make sure they are gone and then be gone.

The old boy said that if caught, it's better to make a one off payment to family et al, than a never ending flow to keep a cripple and his family, friends, and parasites in the manner to which they may deem suddenly fit, given the newly, though sorely acquired income stream.

I'm talking Thai on Thai here. No Farangs involved.

Thus far, there have been only two occassions that the company policy had to be implemented.

I also recall years ago, when a guy in Papua New Guinea, hit and killed a pig (very valuable to the locals). He stopped, for some bizzare reason and got the living be-Jesus beaten out of him.

Personally I would have grabbed the pig and legged it, then oragnized a nice BBQ with the boys over a few beers and beetle nut.

Cheers n beers.

Big Paulee.

Strangely enough, I was told something similar when a local cement truck driver had an accident with a motorcyclist. He reversed to make sure the guy was dead. He ended up having to sell some land to pay the family but it was a one off payment and he kept the truck and his living.

Wasn't sure whether to believe it or not at the time. Your post seems to back the story up.

[Petesear]

I've been driving here for the last eight years and in that time have had 2 minor accidents both with bikes, and both not my fault. The solo stuntmen put their hands up at first, taking the blame (in both cases I was not moving) only to change their minds as the crowd got bigger. The police were no help either as they advised me to pay the bikers off. Not a lot of cash, 3k Baht. But for what....? I guess this goes back to paying off the law with the 'tea' money thing, I'm sure they took their cut!!

[jaiyenjohn]

Having driven around Thailand for 6 years with no accidents (knock on wood). I've luckily never had to face the problem. I have been told by more than one of my Thai friends and girlfriends, that you should never stop after an accident. This seems to be the accepted social norm to injuring another person, however unethical it would seem in our own cultures. The reasoning as far as I can make out is as follows:

1. Fear of retribution from "mob justice"

2. Fear of ongoing financial consequences.

3. What exactly are you going to do anyway?

The third one actually makes a little bit of sense to me. When I told my girlfriend that my instinct is to stop if someone is injured, she said "Are you a doctor? What are you going to do? What if he dies because you're trying to help him?". She assumed that someone in the crowd would call the police, or hospital anyway, so why take the risk? Make the phone call yourself once you've left the scene and are not in immediate danger.

I really can't say what I'd do when faced with the situation. I think the idealistic notion that the Farang should jump out administer some kind of aid, and impress the victim, onlookers, and police with his compassion and civilized behavior, supposedly winning the respect and admiration of the locals is a dangerously naive choice in the reality that is Thailand.

If it were an accident on a lonely stretch of road, with no large crowds, or easy access to hospital. I'd still most likely stop and help the person.

If it were in the middle of a village or other populated area, my instinct would be to help. but I'd probably beat that down with common sense, and call for help once I'd left the scene.

The difficulty is that this is not the "right" decision, but I would do it anyway.

[zorro1]

okay does anybody here know of anyone personally that was lynched, beaten to a pulp etc? If so can you provide a link to a newspaper article, police report etc. One thing for sure is that rumours are wild out here. Not suggesting it never happens but willing to bet not as often as suggested here

[Theyreallrubbish]

I was once driving down Sukhumvit 15 when a motorcyle taxi driver tried to overtake on the inside, misjudged it and caught my car and fell off. I stopped to see if he was OK and was quickly surrounded by a mob of other motorcycle taxi drivers who were attempting to intimidate me and the guy who'd hit me suddenly decided he wanted 5000 Baht. I said OK and that I'd call my friend to bring the money. I called a Thai friend and told him what was going on.

About 15 minutes later with the mob feeling macho and victorious and being fairly unpleasant my friend turned up in his minibus and parked about 10 meters down the road from my car. He got out and opened the side door and a policeman got out, then another, then another, then another. I didn't know what was going but when I turned back around the mob had completely disappeared leaving just the guy who'd hit me who was now behaving like the air had been let out of him.

My friend told me to just leave. I saw him later and asked what had happened. He said nothing, the motorcyclist admitted it was his fault. Never heard anything about it.

It was funny how the macho mob vanished so quickly though.

[Huey]

He Messed up when he stuck his farang head out of the window for all the world to see like a dumb azz. If it was his car in HIS NAME he needed to stop because it is just too easy to track the plate. Hard to say, too many variables. Were the windows tinted? Was anyone looking to see his face, was it obviously the bike driver's fault (ie Going the wrong way down a 1 way street)..tough call.

[cm-happy]

A friend of mine used to work for the German goverment here in Thailand and their advice was to leave straight away and sort it out later if anything ever came back to them. Basically leave and save yourself, i know i would do the same if it happened to me.

but imagine if the one that they are leaving lying on the road is your relative, may God forbid, what would you feel?

Believe the US Gov' advises the same for their personel working here in LOS as well as large multinational companies

[Prakanong]

A friend of mine used to work for the German goverment here in Thailand and their advice was to leave straight away and sort it out later if anything ever came back to them. Basically leave and save yourself, i know i would do the same if it happened to me.

but imagine if the one that they are leaving lying on the road is your relative, may God forbid, what would you feel?

Believe the US Gov' advises the same for their personel working here in LOS as well as large multinational companies

Its also one of the reasons Thai drivers are provided.

Same in Indonesia and other countries where local exuberance can turn into a lynch mob mentality at best only extracting money or worst blood.

[LivinLOS]

okay does anybody here know of anyone personally that was lynched, beaten to a pulp etc? If so can you provide a link to a newspaper article, police report etc. One thing for sure is that rumours are wild out here. Not suggesting it never happens but willing to bet not as often as suggested here

After a bike crash, all was going ok (I had agreed to settle, it was a minor minor thing) one drunk member of the mob started trying to get in my face for no reason, I laughed at him (he was tiny) / laughed it off, and when I turned my back he swung and lumped me from behind. I obviously turned round and defended myself and in 5 or so seconds it was a full on melee with 8 or 10 of them around me all swinging for the fences.

Luckily (and through no particular skill of my own) I managed to keep my feet and keep my head moving and doing my best to reduce thier numbers. Connecting with one a gap on the circle around me opened and I was through it and down that road legs going 10 to the dozen. there was a little more to the story after that but the upshot was the police arrived shortly after and were very much on my side.

Not posting this to pretend I am hard, or sound like some knuckledragger but you asked if anyone had personally had problems and so.. I didnt do anything to antagonise, I didnt argue or shout, I was being polite and actually had no animosity for the other person involved, just random crowd, lynch the farang vibe.

[Scott]

Sadly, I've seen quite a number of incidents in which the driver fled. More sadly, I've seen a few accidents in which the driver did not flee and the local crowd got a hold of him. Instead of one person ending up in the hospital, it was two.

I used to think fleeing was a cowardly thing to do. I now understand that it might be for ones self protection. Once I even saw a handcuffed person with two policemen getting the absolute sh*t kicked out of him by 6 or 7 motorcycle taxi guys, while the police watched. It was a severe enough beating that I seriously wonder if the guy survived.

Even if you flee, you are still obligated to call or let someone know that there is an injured person.

[chanchao]

A friend of mine used to work for the German goverment here in Thailand and their advice was to leave straight away and sort it out later if anything ever came back to them. Basically leave and save yourself, i know i would do the same if it happened to me.

but imagine if the one that they are leaving lying on the road is your relative, may God forbid, what would you feel?

Believe the US Gov' advises the same for their personel working here in LOS as well as large multinational companies

Link? Source? If 'multinational companies' put any of that in writing then they may well be prosecuted back home.

Most replies make me sick.

I hope none of you are ever involved in an accident that involves my family AND then leave them to die on the road, or I will track you down to the end of your days. Bunch of potential criminals here. And people are wondering why Farangs are increasingly seen in bad light.

And then the smug hypocrisy of it all.. Absolutely *EVERY* newspaper clipping relating about a traffic accident on this forum has a couple smug individuals make references to 'Somchai fleeing the scene', no matter if the driver actually fled or not. It's apparently very funny even when it involves mishaps with airplanes or other vehicles.. And now we learn that most of you would do the exact same thing??

Edited December 11, 2007 by chanchao

[chanchao]

okay does anybody here know of anyone personally that was lynched, beaten to a pulp etc? If so can you provide a link to a newspaper article, police report etc. One thing for sure is that rumours are wild out here. Not suggesting it never happens but willing to bet not as often as suggested here

The only example I can think of was that rich-kid who repeatedly used his Benz to run over pedestrians and killed one.

I would hope that at least none of the valued readership here would sink to THAT level.

Edited December 11, 2007 by chanchao

[meemiathai]

If it were in the middle of a village or other populated area, my instinct would be to help. but I'd probably beat that down with common sense, and call for help once I'd left the scene.

In the middle of a village.... in my wife's village the reputation of farangs is quite good, so if there aren't really anyone who's been seriously injured by you, I don't think they are going to lynch you.

But imagine in a village where reputations of farangs aren't that good!

[ade100]

So we have a dilemma. If involved in an accident and viewed as being the guilty party you have two choices: Flee the scene, which is of course totally unacceptable behaviour for any human being in any country, or stick around and risk (and what the risk is is not clear) of being savagely beaten.

The solution is simple. Never allow yourself to be viewed as the guilty party. Always carry in your car a few canisters of fake blood, then in the unlikely event of an accident, douse yourself in fake blood and emerge from the car looking as if you are bleeding to death. You can then play the superhero and, ignoring your fatal injuries, do your utmost to help the other participant in the little drama.

Et voila!

Edited December 11, 2007 by ade100

[Scott]

I don't think that people here are advocating fleeing the scene of an accident. I think the only assumption that can be made is that they do it in part for their own safety. If you want a link to a site that shows where people are beaten to a pulp, I doubt that you will find one, but it absolutely does exist. By the way there isn't a site for extrajudicial killings either.

The law has to provide some sort of protection not only for victims but for alleged criminals as well. The police need to be seen as helpful and they need to be respected. The alternative that you often see here is "street justice".

Generally, people who flee, don't flee far. They either turn themselves in or are found at home.

In most developed countries we don't flee because we will be caught. They have very good forensics that will get us and when they do get us, then we are REALLY in trouble.

[g00dgirl]

From reports in this thread it seems like the driver of a car (or larger vehicle) is risking to be considered guilty by Thai bystanders if involved in an addicent with a pedestrian or motorbike or smaller vehicle, and there is a risk of violence against the driver of the larger vehicle if he stays on the scene.

This seems to be the case no matter if the driver of the car is Thai or a foreigner but requests for money could be more common if the driver is a foreigner.

Is there a risk of violence by bystanders if both parties are on motorbikes for example or if both parties are in cars?

What about if the driver of the larger vehicle is female, also risky? Any experiences?

[meemiathai]

In most developed countries people don't flee because police will be at scene in a couple of minutes. There is less of this sort of lynch mob mentality, people generally are more educated and do not always resort to violence when handling matters. People are more likely to get caught if participate in lynching. Also, race is a problem too. There is resentment in some thais towards farangs and a traffic accident would have been a very good opportunity and excuse for them to start off with satisfying their animal desire.

[meemiathai]

From reports in this thread it seems like the driver of a car (or larger vehicle) is risking to be considered guilty by Thai bystanders if involved in an addicent with a pedestrian or motorbike or smaller vehicle, and there is a risk of violence against the driver of the larger vehicle if he stays on the scene.

This seems to be the case no matter if the driver of the car is Thai or a foreigner but requests for money could be more common if the driver is a foreigner.

Is there a risk of violence by bystanders if both parties are on motorbikes for example or if both parties are in cars?

What about if the driver of the larger vehicle is female, also risky? Any experiences?

I believe it would be much much less risky for a female. Unless one has been driving absolutely crazily and then seriously hurt someone. Just drive responsibly and everything will be ok, I think. I am talking about day time only. It could be different at night. Anyway just my humble opinion.

[jts-khorat]

Generally, people who flee, don't flee far. They either turn themselves in or are found at home.

In most developed countries we don't flee because we will be caught. They have very good forensics that will get us and when they do get us, then we are REALLY in trouble.

In Germany, if you flee the scene of an accident, your legal position becomes pretty weak and your insurance will have a very dim view of paying for damages.

In Thailand -- as far as I know -- the legal situation is as follows: turning yourself in to the next police station is AS GOOD as if you would not have fled the scene.

Seems pretty clear to me, do not stay around if it is not obvious you were in the right or if there do not seem to be injured parties around (eg the other guy jumps back to his feet).

When in Rome, do as the Romans do...

[dave111223]

My plate number tells them I am farang ??

Shhh! You'll start giving immigration ideas.

[onnut]

If I hit a bike or someone crossing the road I always said if the traffic was light I would make a run for it. chances are the accident would not be my fault, so why should I pay for it? because that is what would happen.

[t.s]

A friend of mine used to work for the German goverment here in Thailand and their advice was to leave straight away and sort it out later if anything ever came back to them. Basically leave and save yourself, i know i would do the same if it happened to me.

so our suspect is likely german and a government employee. i am beginning to understand

[ade100]

My Thai partner says, in an accident, it is always best to stop and help people and if necessary call the police or an ambulance. She says most Thai villagers do not want to hurt or lynch anyone:- The voice of reason or of naivety?

I have witnessed a few minor incidents in the UK and have noticed both parties often leap from their cars and start shouting at each other. I could imagine this escalating to violence in Thailand. I just cannot imagine Thai people trying to beat or lynch me if I were being the perfect English gentleman, which of course I always am.

Lastly let us not paint a picture of Thais as violent savages. I have many examples of them being brave, helpful and heroic. The latest example of this was in the Phuket air crash. While most survivors were running for their lives, there were two separate accounts of Thai people going back into the burning plane to pull people out. I salute their heroism!

[ignoramus]

I have no idea what I would do in the above-mentioned instances, whether at fault or not. I understand that in France their Samaritan law requires that even an onlooker can deny help. A decade or 2 ago in Germany a women hit someone with her car, and left the scene. A while later the police called on her to say that a hit and run driver had killed her son....guess who it was...

[ignoramus]

sorry -- typo -- an onlooker cannot deny help.

[gburns57au]

I would offer assistance....unless it got threatening then I would get the heck out of there...