onzestan Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 So finally it's confirmed. McLaren admitted too having used illegally obtained technical information from Ferrari, and where going to use some on the 2008 car too. Your comments? cheers onzestan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuian Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 well, the drivers should be disqualified and gained points removed as well, it's them who profited form the illegal procedures of the Mc Laren-Ferrari Spy-Affair.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignis Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 McLaren should be disqualified from scoring any points in 2008... Why should a driver be disqualified ? for what a team did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onzestan Posted December 14, 2007 Author Share Posted December 14, 2007 McLaren should be disqualified from scoring any points in 2008...Why should a driver be disqualified ? for what a team did IMHO the drivers are part of the team too. It cannot be denied that at least one of the drivers was implicated, and lets not forget that vital information only came forward after both the drivers and test driver where promised immunity. cheers onzestan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignis Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 Yes I agree the drivers are part of the team, but you often see drivers getting penalties, wrong tyres, wrong fuel, the old tyre over the white line in the pit lane, engineers not off the starting grid in time and so on., A drive through is a drivers Penalty as well as the Team, yet no fault of the driver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lite Beer Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 McLaren should be disqualified from scoring any points in 2008...Why should a driver be disqualified ? for what a team did IMHO the drivers are part of the team too. It cannot be denied that at least one of the drivers was implicated, and lets not forget that vital information only came forward after both the drivers and test driver where promised immunity. cheers onzestan One of the drivers is not there now. Ok , He should be disqualified from last season. Who would now be the world champion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onzestan Posted December 15, 2007 Author Share Posted December 15, 2007 The topic is about Mclaren cheating, not about the drivers I agree allthough 1 of them was clearly in the gist of it all. Noteworthy also is that Pedro de la Rosa who was instrumental in passing the info to Alonso, is still working for McLaren. I believe that McLaren should be banned from the 2008 championship to assure that the illegal information they have in their possession becomes obsolete. Anyway Ron Dennis has lost all his credibility as far as I'm concerned. cheers onzestan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chavy Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 I would say hit the team hard again but not the drivers, understood the drivers are part of the team but ultimately the decission boils down to Dennis if they should use any information gained to use on the car or against the other teams. Thing is, what about this story about Renault & their own spying case which the top brass in F1 feel fit not to take any further action ?? It can't be one rule for one & one rule for another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onzestan Posted December 15, 2007 Author Share Posted December 15, 2007 I would say hit the team hard again but not the drivers, understood the drivers are part of the team but ultimately the decission boils down to Dennis if they should use any information gained to use on the car or against the other teams. Thing is, what about this story about Renault & their own spying case which the top brass in F1 feel fit not to take any further action ?? It can't be one rule for one & one rule for another. We will never know why don't we. Probably they deemed one such case was enough and the show must go on. Anyway as I said, I had the highest regard for Ron Dennis, and now face the fact that I cannot trust anything he says. cheers onzestan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sierra01 Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 The problem with banning McLaren is that then we return to the Schumacher days of who's going to come second (or third as Ferrari have 2 drivers very capable of winning). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onzestan Posted December 16, 2007 Author Share Posted December 16, 2007 The problem with banning McLaren is that then we return to the Schumacher days of who's going to come second (or third as Ferrari have 2 drivers very capable of winning). We can hardly blame Ferrari for that, can we? It's up to the others to catch up, not for Ferrari to slow down. And it's not only the money, look at Toyota and Honda! cheers onzestan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mosha Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 You ban McLaren then you have to ban Renault. Even if they weren't fined, they were guilty of cheating. Oh and ban Ferrari for having an illegal car in the 1st race of 2007. Just to be sure ban all cars using Ferrari engines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esprit Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 The sport would be far better off if they just banned "Mad" Max Mosely. Granted Ferrari would not have the distinct advantageous that they have gained from him for the last few years, but then any further accusations/investigations of cheating for the coming seasons at least will be looked in an unbiased way. Problem then of course they would all be penalised as cheating has been going on for the last 50 odd years - of course, if copying another teams idea is considered cheating, then F1 should have finished after it's inagural season ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2oDunc Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 The last I read was that the FIA were satisfied that the 2008 Maclaren had no technology that was obtained from Ferrari. Maybe the OP can tell us where hehead this from? Several cars were discovered using ILLEGAL fuel on the last race but nothing was done. Also Renault were found guily of doing exactly what Maclaren did yet Mad Max did nothing. Seems to me there was a slight bias against Maclaren last year. As for cheating, its been going on since racing began. EVERY team has done it. Its part of the game that is racing. Roll on next season when Hamilton can show the rest how its done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mosha Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 Well given Mosely's family background, and McLaren just happen to be a British team with a black driver. I have to wonder if that has something to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominique355 Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 The sport would be far better off if they just banned "Mad" Max Mosely. Granted Ferrari would not have the distinct advantageous that they have gained from him for the last few years, but then any further accusations/investigations of cheating for the coming seasons at least will be looked in an unbiased way. Problem then of course they would all be penalised as cheating has been going on for the last 50 odd years - of course, if copying another teams idea is considered cheating, then F1 should have finished after it's inagural season ! I fully agree with you, Esprit, it's Mad Max who makes Formula 1 to become more and more a joke. Spying and copying in Formula 1 is as old as the sport itself, nothing new there. And anyway, it can never be fully suppressed or controlled. When an engineer changes the team, he cannot simply "forget" what he knows. What is in my opinion much more damaging, is Max Mosley's constant attempts to change Formula 1 into a Formula where everybody has the same lame and outdated cheap car. Formula 1 is about High Tech, new ideas, cutting edge technology. That's expensive, granted. But, hey, if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. Nobody is forced to participate, and so far the top teams have always been able to find the money. What makes Formula 1 so expensive are FIA's rules, which outlaw every little advantage and the rule book has now the size of the Bible. Any advantage over a rival team cost so much, because no new ideas are allowed, while some rules cement downright outdated technology (e.g.13 inch rims!). Less rules and more freedom, perhaps limit the amount of energy and impose some safety rules and leave the rest to some brilliant engineers with new ideas. Then we will have an interesting Formula and not a lame Indy imitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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