Thai's Educated With An Attitude?

[Xangsamhua]

I like to think of myself as perceptive when it comes to people and I tend to profile...

Profiling has always served me well here in the USA and when I came to Thailand I employed my

profiling skills once I met enough Thai people to begin to establish a base-line in personalities for profiling and it has served me well.

What actually is "profiling"? It sounds like something the police do to help catch serial killers. Is it just generalizing or something more sophisticated? How long, or with how many samples, does one have to "profile" in order to arrive at a helpful conclusion?

[mrtoad]

I like to think of myself as perceptive when it comes to people and I tend to profile...

Profiling has always served me well here in the USA and when I came to Thailand I employed my

profiling skills once I met enough Thai people to begin to establish a base-line in personalities for profiling and it has served me well.

What actually is "profiling"? It sounds like something the police do to help catch serial killers. Is it just generalizing or something more sophisticated? How long, or with how many samples, does one have to "profile" in order to arrive at a helpful conclusion?

Human Profiling is normally carried out by Psychologists/Criminologists to the best of my knowledge. I rather doubt that he is "profiling", but more likely to be using his instincts/inital assumptions/stereotypes etc, etc. Anyone that goes around 'profiling' people they meet, need to get out a little bit more and relax.

[h90]

On my first visit to Thaialnd, I did not know what to expect.... Dirt roads with chickens running from one yard to the other as a car or elephant walked by..... This was the impression I got from so many travel magazines and tourist books. Sure they were a little old, I bought them used on Amazon!

Anyway, on my arrival, I was met by a Western educated Thai. They were a friend of a friend of mine who lives in the USA. We (the Thai and I) exchanged e-mails over the months before my trip. I had many questions and they did not seem to mind answering them. Many of their e-mails were full of warnings as related to those who make their living from Non-Thai visitors.

When I arrived and we were in the Taxi to my hotel, they warned me about the Taxi's there. When I checked into my hotel, they asked the rate I was paying, I told them and they had my rate lowered. Once I got my room number we made plans to meet in the morning and they would show me around and go to MBK.....

The next day I noticed that my guide walked with purpose and the sea of Thai's who were in our path on the crowded sidewalk would part and we walked straight and steady. When we passed older thai's I would lower my head because I read about doing that in a guide book.. Not my Educated friend... They walked on as if they did not have time to play... No head lowering, no stepping aside, no wai's or smiles.... They did look shocked and hurt when I mentioned this to them and asked them if that is what they call being "High Headed?" (We were able to share this type of conversation without any problem).

They told me they did move out of others way and lower their head and I told them that when we walked, the only time there was a side step was when there was no other choice but to step-aside.

Another western educated Thai constantly warned me not to take any crap from his fellow Thai's. Now This guy did not look like an average Thai. I am sure he was of mixed blood. But I guess he looks Thai enough as he is now on TV in some Thai Drama.... Anyway When we were in Pattaya. A baht bus driver tried to get him to pay 20 baht for each for a total of 40 baht for the both of us. First he spoke to the driver in English asking him why? The driver simply held out his hand and wobbled his head around. Than he sternly talked to the driver again in Thai. The driver then became satisfied with the 20 baht he received for the short ride and drove away. "Don't take any CRAP while you are here! I hate the way my people treat visitors and hurt our reputation!"

With my friend not appearing to be Thai and me being an obvious foreigner... He was able to tell me what comments were being made about us as we passed some Thai's. Most of the comments were very complementary towards me, a few towards him, some were very rude where they were guessing on the size of my endowment..... I liked that part... being able to know what was being said by those who had no idea we understood every word... The not so fun part was that many times in our encounters with other Thai's who were either servicing or selling something. He became stern... No sheepish acting with him... He let them know that he was insulted by the way they would treat a Visitor, let them know that he was in fact Thai and then a change would take place. If in a restaurant, sides and other things would be placed on our table. He told me that this is the proper serving of the Thai dish I ordered but because I am a visitor they did not serve it to me until he asked about it....

I don't know if these are the best examples.... I think I am not able to give you the full flavor/attitude of the moment or their joy in catching and admonishing another Thai who would take advantage of a Visitor....

I wish I had the writing skills to share this topic in a way that best represented the subject line but I fear I don't....

Do any of you notice this, "Change" in demeanor/attitude of a western educated Thai?

I saw once a foreign lady (european) asking my Thai wife about the price in small bus (forgot how they are called). She answered correctly and the busdriver asked her in Thai why she told the true (making his business going lower). Than my wife got mad, she was close to kill him. I understood just something from discredit the Kingdom, they x000 years of kingdom, a shame for the country.......

My wife is not western educated, actually I would say she don't like any western influence. She is very conservative and it seems you don't rip off guests who come because they love the country. I would say it is less an school-educational thing than what you get teached in the family.

[PaulUSA302]

Too personal and off topic. I made a topic and hoped for comment. Take care

Paul, why didn't you just move on and find a friend better matching your profile assessment. The reason I say that is that why stick with a headache. I hear from your post that you were embarrassed as to how this person acted in public with you.

The thing that I pick up here is some people are dickh@@ds. So if I choose to hang around people like this I may be tared with the same brush.

Some people lack compassion. You are going to see this no matter where you go or associated with different class systems.

But then again this person may have also given you a valuable insight into the difference or perception on how westerners are treated by street educated Thais?

[Dakhar]

Something else about the profile concept. I would think it is hard to profile an individual from a differeny culture, because in order to profile, one draws upon experiences, social rules etc in order to make assumptions about people. Those experiences and social rules are formed by culture.

It is much like Bush trying to make an intellegent decission regarding the middle east. He has absolutely no clue regarding their culture. Heck to Bush and international experience is a trip to Taco Bell.

[Neeranam]

I've no shadow of a doubt that British universities are better, in all areas, compared to Thai universities.

To be more precise, Scotland has the best education. The Queen of England even sent her sons and grandson there.

The Western educated Thais I know - lots of them, are more embarassed than anything else about the way Thais treat 'whiteys'.

[Neeranam]

I visited my young cousin in Khao San road yesterday. When sitting in a restaurant, I felt like hitting a Thai prick because of what he was saying about farang(even to their faces). I would if I didn't already know what happens if you hit a thai in a tourist area.

[yorkman]

To be more precise, Scotland has the best education. The Queen of England even sent ........ grandson there.

Now now, you know he only went there so he could be near his uncle playing golf.... errr undertaking state duties

This is a thread about profiling "johnney foreigner" , not certain persons spouses views on "johnney foreigner"

Back on topic if you will.

[PaulUSA302]

delete

Edited December 28, 2007 by PaulUSA302

[yorkman]

delete

Good Idea

Done you the same favour

Edited December 28, 2007 by yorkman

[Macx]

One good thing about Western educated Thais:

They see farangs for what they are and will treat them accordingly.

[PaulUSA302]

One good thing about Western educated Thais:

They see farangs for what they are and will treat them accordingly.

Now that made me give a genuine friendly laugh

[johnnyk]

There are quite a few rich ones that leave Thailand as so called A-students, in order to continoue studying abroad, just to return after failing many exams at the University they study at in Europe and USA.

Guess they have changed they attitude when they come home?

Yeah, I think they get quite a shock when they get to a "real" university and realise that they might have to actually, horror, compete and start showing some intelligence. They have been brought up in a no-fail environment all their lives and then suddenly they're up against it.

Like the girl who lived with my family in Canada for 3 months when she was 17?

You know, the one now doing her MBA at Cambridge after working 3 years at Deutsche Bank.

[johnnyk]

I like to think of myself as perceptive when it comes to people and I tend to profile...

Profiling has always served me well here in the USA and when I came to Thailand I employed my

profiling skills once I met enough Thai people to begin to establish a base-line in personalities for profiling and it has served me well.

What actually is "profiling"? It sounds like something the police do to help catch serial killers. Is it just generalizing or something more sophisticated? How long, or with how many samples, does one have to "profile" in order to arrive at a helpful conclusion?

It means you walk around with a set of forms and check the little boxes. At the end of the day you add up the checkmarks to see which people were worthwhile. Or at least which ones match the sought-after pre-conceived notions.

Other people just relate and take people as they come. Risky approach, though.

[PaulUSA302]

It means you walk around with a set of forms and check the little boxes. At the end of the day you add up the checkmarks to see which people were worthwhile. Or at least which ones match the sought-after pre-conceived notions.

Other people just relate and take people as they come. Risky approach, though.

That would be true for others, but that is not me at all

If your in law enforcement than that would be right. But to say you cook at home and a person asks what is cooking and a person begins to explain how one cooks in a corporate factory mass-production kitchen.... it is not the same.

I say profile and others want it to mean what they imagine.... But my profiling is as basic as. That person has dirty hands.... I learned from the past not to ask a person with dirty hands to prepare my food thinking they would clean their hands first....... Nothing sinister... Nothing criminal... Just me and my street-smarts but I call what I remember about people who tend to act a certain way as profiling....

I remember once when I was at a diner with a friend eating breakfast. There was only a counter to eat at. When our check came I told my friend that if we leave a tip that the guys next to us may steal it. He left a tip on the counter and we went to pay the check to the cashier. My friend went back for his gloves and I heard him talking to the guys that were sitting next to us. When I asked what that was about, he told me that when he got back to our seats the guy sitting next to us was sliding the tip he left under his menu (Stealing it). Until he saw my friend and said he was sorry and he put the tip back. My friend being the nice guy that he is told the tip stealer that as far as he was concerned... He didn't see anything!....

Why did I profile them as potential tip stealers... I don't know... At that time I did not think of it as profiling... I considered it instincts.... Or street Smarts.....

Edited December 28, 2007 by PaulUSA302

[mrtoad]

It means you walk around with a set of forms and check the little boxes. At the end of the day you add up the checkmarks to see which people were worthwhile. Or at least which ones match the sought-after pre-conceived notions.

Other people just relate and take people as they come. Risky approach, though.

That would be true for others, but that is not me at all

If your in law enforcement than that would be right. But to say you cook at home and a person asks what is cooking and a person begins to explain how one cooks in a corporate factory mass-production kitchen.... it is not the same.

I say profile and others want it to mean what they imagine.... But my profiling is as basic as. That person has dirty hands.... I learned from the past not to ask a person with dirty hands to prepare my food thinking they would clean their hands first....... Nothing sinister... Nothing criminal... Just me and my street-smarts but I call what I remember about people who tend to act a certain way as profiling....

I remember once when I was at a diner with a friend eating breakfast. There was only a counter to eat at. When our check came I told my friend that if we leave a tip that the guys next to us may steal it. He left a tip on the counter and we went to pay the check to the cashier. My friend went back for his gloves and I heard him talking to the guys that were sitting next to us. When I asked what that was about, he told me that when he got back to our seats the guy sitting next to us was sliding the tip he left under his menu (Stealing it). Until he saw my friend and said he was sorry and he put the tip back. My friend being the nice guy that he is told the tip stealer that as far as he was concerned... He didn't see anything!....

Why did I profile them as potential tip stealers... I don't know... At that time I did not think of it as profiling... I considered it instincts.... Or street Smarts.....

What utter nonsense, that is not "profiling".

[JimsKnight]

No he's pretty much right Toadman. It's more of an intuition-based profiling technique as opposed to an in-depth official style of profiling but he's in the groove alright.

That's what always lets TV down. Somebody makes a statement about something that they follow and theres always a bunch of critics ready to try and hamstring them.

Give the guy a break.

[Dakhar]

and my intuition says.... Bull corn

[mrtoad]

No he's pretty much right Toadman. It's more of an intuition-based profiling technique as opposed to an in-depth official style of profiling but he's in the groove alright.

That's what always lets TV down. Somebody makes a statement about something that they follow and theres always a bunch of critics ready to try and hamstring them.

Give the guy a break.

I hear you Jim, but I think he's trying to go in depth a little bit with the intuition v profiling. I agree that there is an element of intuition even in the specifics of professional profiling. What he is talking about, is what nearly everyone does, and I myself wouldn't personally call it "profiling".

I'm not giving the guy a hard time, he's just trying to over complicate the topic IMHO.

[Xangsamhua]

In his original post he reported certain impressions based on observation and generalization and asked for people's responses: were his generalizations valid or not? That's OK, and people did respond, some with the point that you have to be careful about generalizing too quickly in an unfamiliar culture.

"Profiling" sounds like a technical procedure, something more than intuitive generalisation. That's what I found a bit confusing and wonder why he used that term. Still, it all seems cleared up now and I for one have learnt something.

[Stephen Cleary]

For my two bahts worth, a lot of educated Thais who have studied abroad also have an 'attutude' against Caucasians. I've personally known a couple of overseas who after living abroad for a while are able to see through the mindset of us Whities. It has to be said that a lot of foreigners are able to get away with here, a lot of stuff they wouldn't even dare do in the West - most locals just turn a blind-eye. A lot of overseas/educated Thais, know of course, that 'these Farang guys' are pretty 'obnoxious'.

Take the stereotype of English folk, Thais call us 'Phu-dee' (high-class, polite). I mean that is one very nice stereotype. Again, Thais who have lived in England will know that that steroetype is extravagantly exaggerated

On a Farangy positive side, 'most' overseas Thais are more open-minded about cultural identity, and are able to escape that ultra-nationalistic propaganda which they have been conditioned by since the time they entered kindergarten. They are often more acceptable too of Westerners and any critical analysis they may have concerning 'Thai ways', beliefs and traditions etc.. Most locals here don't enjoy listening to Caucasians, especially if they don't speak Thai, who freely express any negativity towards anything Thai, and especially their culture.

Most overseas/educated Thais are also much more willing to express views on subjects considered 'taboo' in Thailand.

Edited December 29, 2007 by Stephen Cleary

[Travel2003]

There are quite a few rich ones that leave Thailand as so called A-students, in order to continoue studying abroad, just to return after failing many exams at the University they study at in Europe and USA.

Guess they have changed they attitude when they come home?

Yeah, I think they get quite a shock when they get to a "real" university and realise that they might have to actually, horror, compete and start showing some intelligence. They have been brought up in a no-fail environment all their lives and then suddenly they're up against it.

Like the girl who lived with my family in Canada for 3 months when she was 17?

You know, the one now doing her MBA at Cambridge after working 3 years at Deutsche Bank.

Oh yes, her.

She must have been quite cleaver, in any country, since she was almost finished with her university studies in Thailand, before heading off for the degree/continue studying abroad.

Or maybe she was not at university at all before she visited you????

Again, quite a few. Not all.

Again, it is about attitude.