At Least 17 Britons Have Been Murdered In Thailand Since 2003

[Prakanong]

I'm glad I only stayed in the UK for a piffling 28 years. Terrible place, horrible people, etc.

If we count just England I made it through slightly more than that but if we have to include the wastelands of Scotland I exceed it by a few years

[Prakanong]

Just reading in the peper today in Singapore about the study just completed in the USa regarding the increase in murders by US Military personnel in the USA since the start of the Afghan war in 91 and through the Iraq war till now.

A 89% increase - maybe Americans should be careful at home while brits are being careful in Thailand

[gburns57au]

I'm glad I only stayed in the UK for a piffling 28 years. Terrible place, horrible people, etc.

I stayed there for 11 years....and I agree, what a dump....full of xenophobic bigots, under educated thugs and snobbish Hi So's.....then there is the gloomy god awful weather...Snow sleet and rain...

I left there when I was 11...

[howtoescape]

After living in the UK for 28 years I am surpise its only 17.

Many of my people where I was born can not believe the drinking the sports betting and the over eating by Brits.

Where is this great nation you were born, and why do the people you know stay in Britain if they are so appalled with our debauchery?

The Brits have no self control no religion and no class Just look at the so call Royal Family from England.

I have met many Brits that claim the English Royal Family got rid of Princess Diane.

Its Diana and it is a real Royal family not a so called one, there are conspiracy theorists everywhere most Brits are not interested in the saga of her death.

I dont believe in any religion, should i be allowed this privelege to choose or be chastised for being a non believer.

They have started all the wars.

Didnt millions of Brits die in the last century fighting to defend their nation and gain freedom for Europeans the Jews and Asians alike.

And mess up the colonies for all time.

Former colonies such as America, Canada, Australia, Singapore, Hong Kong seem to be doing OK.

Is Zimbabwe a country that was one of the most prosperous in Africa under British rule our fault, maybe certain former colonies need to start taking responsibility for their own countries and stop blaming the past.

And no i dont believe in colonising people, however most the countries under the British empire were under the Dutch, Spanish, French, Portugese rule at one time, we were actually late comers to Empire building, just we were more succesful at it then the rest.

Soon Thailand will not let them into this great country.

Now if that post had been about a different race to the British or Americans it would have been pulled right away. Double standards possibly?

[kopite]

lot safer here in thailand than back in the uk. surprised so many of you get worked up by articles like this.

margate was always an option

[Prakanong]

lot safer here in thailand than back in the uk. surprised so many of you get worked up by articles like this.

margate was always an option

Not another refugee from "Planet Thanet" - seems to be a few of us on this board

[lazeeboy]

Far more Brits dying of over-eating, smoking and drugging (including the drug - alcohol) than being murdered.

m,.

After living in the UK for 28 years I am surpise its only 17.

Many of my people where I was born can not believe the drinking the sports betting and the over eating by Brits.

The Brits have no self control no religion and no class Just look at the so call Royal Family from England.

I have met many Brits that claim the English Royal Family got rid of Princess Diane.

They have started all the wars. And mess up the colonies for all time

Soon Thailand will not let them into this great country.

After 28 years in the country I would have a bigger complaint than drinking and sports betting if i was you - the education system and courses in english for immigrants - its failed you.

I am glad Britain is becoming secular - religion poisons everything and god is not great - a crutch for the stupid.

Oh and if it was so bad why did you stay 28 years - it must have been better than the shithole you came from?

well said............

[chiang mai]

Far more Brits dying of over-eating, smoking and drugging (including the drug - alcohol) than being murdered.

m,.

After living in the UK for 28 years I am surpise its only 17.

Many of my people where I was born can not believe the drinking the sports betting and the over eating by Brits.

The Brits have no self control no religion and no class Just look at the so call Royal Family from England.

I have met many Brits that claim the English Royal Family got rid of Princess Diane.

They have started all the wars. And mess up the colonies for all time

Soon Thailand will not let them into this great country.

You're obviously quite the Anglophile lover so pray do tell, from whence cometh thou?

[roamer]

I think there is probably more brits murdered in UK than this each year.

I think your right. If I was to hazard a guess I would say that just might have something to do with the fact that there are more Brits in the UK than Thailand ?

With respect to the comparative safety of the two places if you can't compare like with like its hard to reach a conclusion that has much validity. Thailand may not be the safest place in the world but there aren't that many no-go areas in Bangkok or Chiang Mai that I can think of, in London or almost any other large UK city you tread carefully, even so the random street crime will find you regardless of your postcode.

If my memory serves me correctly whilst some of those murders were of the wrong time/wrong place scenario a good proportion of them had links/backgrounds of prostitution etc, in the circumstances I'm surprised the figure is so low.

The part of the article that made me shake my head most was yet again the British Embassy.

"Yet Charnaud's family believe British officials in Thailand could have done a lot more to assist them, something that led to their local MP, James Gray, asking questions in Parliament in 2006. "In direct contrast to the Thais, who handled the whole thing very well, at every step our embassy was insensitive, ineffective and incompetent," says Hannah. "When Toby's remains were found they sent us a short email, complete with graphic details. This was done after they had spoken to the press. They offered help with DNA testing and then made that extremely difficult."

At one point, when Charnaud's remains had been released by the Thai police, and with all his family back in the UK, the embassy contacted his family and offered to have the body cremated. "I said, 'What? Do the cremation with no one there?' and they said 'Yes,'" says Hannah. "I was staggered. It seemed like they were just eager to shut the case down."

So the tsunami taught those useless incompetent buggers sod all it would seem.

Now if someone were to produce some statistics about the popular sport of balcony jumping in Pattaya that would make interesting reading.

[Prakanong]

"Now if someone were to produce some statistics about the popular sport of balcony jumping in Pattaya that would make interesting reading."

Very interesting reading indeed. If one was to do a comparitive epidemiological study of methods of suicide I am certan that the balcony jumpers in Pattaya, and other parts of Thailand to a lesser extent, would stand out statistically with regarss to common methods in the jumpers home countries.

Jumping from high spots is not that common a method in most western countries - of course it happens but i would think nowhere as near as much as in Pattaya.

[mellow1]

This morning in the paper there was another jumper, an American this time. I guess they like coming to Thailand for this activity. Not a common form of suicide in the US. People there usually do it with sleeping pills and booze, or maybe they don't like all the excitement of jumping off a balcony, like they do once they get to Pattaya.

[mrtoad]

esbobes - I have just been to your profile and browsed through some of your posts. Here is one of my personal favorites:

Seeing how mostly all expats from UK are drunks and and have unsafe sex yes unsafe sex just ask them,its about time I am sick of paying for these dumb fools.

Their sick style of life are making them sicker. Maybe they should not be allowed to leave the UK and put in a Govt reat home

Were you bullied during your 28 years in the UK? chip on the shoulder perhaps?

esbobes sounds like a great laugh. Judging by his comments, I'll assume that he is not actually British, but more likely an economic immigrant.

He's probably in Nana himself doing the research, judging the classic quote that ashacat has managed to find. I'm still trying to figure out what he means by a "reat home", maybe he couldn't spell the word retirement or retard. Either way, I think I'll pass on the other comments that he's made.

[rgs2001uk]

quote name='kmart' post='1760466' date='2008-01-14 13:56:37']I'm glad I only stayed in the UK for a piffling 28 years. Terrible place, horrible people, etc.

I stayed there for 11 years....and I agree, what a dump....full of xenophobic bigots, under educated thugs and snobbish Hi So's.....then there is the gloomy god awful weather...Snow sleet and rain...

I left there when I was 11...

when did you shift from melbourne to perth? still never mind at least you have warm beer and cold pies where you are now.

[trader1]

On average, about 50 civilian UK nationals are murdered around the world each year (excluding terrorist attacks). This means that almost 10 per cent of all murders of Britons abroad are committed in Thailand – a chilling figure, given that Thailand comprises only 0.6 per cent of all foreign travel from UK shores.

[kopite]

On average, about 50 civilian UK nationals are murdered around the world each year (excluding terrorist attacks). This means that almost 10 per cent of all murders of Britons abroad are committed in Thailand – a chilling figure, given that Thailand comprises only 0.6 per cent of all foreign travel from UK shores.

when you consider that most brits in thailand will either be drunk, high or spending lots of time and money with whores than its really not that surprising

[Prakanong]

On average, about 50 civilian UK nationals are murdered around the world each year (excluding terrorist attacks). This means that almost 10 per cent of all murders of Britons abroad are committed in Thailand – a chilling figure, given that Thailand comprises only 0.6 per cent of all foreign travel from UK shores.

when you consider that most brits in thailand will either be drunk, high or spending lots of time and money with whores than its really not that surprising

and they are not doing that elsewhere they holiday

If they are to be believed noe of the Brits on this board do any of those things

[kopite]

On average, about 50 civilian UK nationals are murdered around the world each year (excluding terrorist attacks). This means that almost 10 per cent of all murders of Britons abroad are committed in Thailand – a chilling figure, given that Thailand comprises only 0.6 per cent of all foreign travel from UK shores.

when you consider that most brits in thailand will either be drunk, high or spending lots of time and money with whores than its really not that surprising

and they are not doing that elsewhere they holiday

If they are to be believed noe of the Brits on this board do any of those things

its more to do with the type of brit that visit thailand. most of them are either young and reckless or old and stupid. the latter in abundance

[kopite]

[irrelevant URL deleted]

[joskydive]

On average, about 50 civilian UK nationals are murdered around the world each year (excluding terrorist attacks). This means that almost 10 per cent of all murders of Britons abroad are committed in Thailand – a chilling figure, given that Thailand comprises only 0.6 per cent of all foreign travel from UK shores.

when you consider that most brits in thailand will either be drunk, high or spending lots of time and money with whores than its really not that surprising

and they are not doing that elsewhere they holiday

If they are to be believed noe of the Brits on this board do any of those things

its more to do with the type of brit that visit thailand. most of them are either young and reckless or old and stupid. the latter in abundance

Twaddle!!!!!!!!!

[Onnutrd]

Like New Zealand, Britain might have some sort of website connected to Immigration which allows individuals overseas and intending travellers to see what 'level' of danger a city/region/country is in (set by officials).

The New Zealand Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade maintains a website called Safe Travel, it provides information regarding safe travel etc..

You can find a link here to check it out: http://www.safetravel.govt.nz

[Jimjim]

Regarding the main story the Independent journalist used as the focus of the article, the omission of certain facts is not acceptable journalism. If you read the previous thread about that case, the lady who had her British husband murdered was a former Bangkok bargirl, not a security guard. With respect to the dead, it's also laughable that Chernaud's sister would speculate that he'd never been to a strip bar. How the hel_l would she know? He was over here all by himself. Seems the author tried to paint her as a typical Thai girl although I'm not sure why.

[chiang mai]

On average, about 50 civilian UK nationals are murdered around the world each year (excluding terrorist attacks). This means that almost 10 per cent of all murders of Britons abroad are committed in Thailand – a chilling figure, given that Thailand comprises only 0.6 per cent of all foreign travel from UK shores.

when you consider that most brits in thailand will either be drunk, high or spending lots of time and money with whores than its really not that surprising

and they are not doing that elsewhere they holiday

If they are to be believed noe of the Brits on this board do any of those things

its more to do with the type of brit that visit thailand. most of them are either young and reckless or old and stupid. the latter in abundance

I'm old and reckless, does that count?

[makavelithedon]

Amazing by reading some of the flippant questions asked here, how few even bothered reading the article past the first paragraph or two.

This area of the article was the most chilling and appeared overlooked:

The number of deaths of British nationals' in Pattaya is hard to ascertain – though some sources claim that it is up to four every week, neither the FCO nor the Thai authorities have any data they are prepared to release. However, what can be speculated with some confidence is that of the 226 average annual deaths of British citizens in Thailand recorded by the FCO, a large percentage are in Pattaya. (The FCO refuse to list causes of deaths, so we must also speculate as to the reasons for this morbid hotspot. Anecdotal evidence suggests straightforward causes of death for some, such as road accidents and health problems; then there are the suspicious-sounding "suicides" – jumping from balconies seems to be a favoured method.)

Of course, this is not murders alone but not being old or stupid either I know it isn't all suicides or accidents! It is a staggering statistic. Add to that other nationalities in a small area and it must be one of the highest in the world.

I don't care how many you want to label as undesirables etc I think the article was mainly being critical of the governments total lack of interest in any protection towards its citizens and it seems other western governments too. Would be interesting to see the stats for other Europeans and North Americans and if they have warnings on their websites?

M.

[Livinginexile]

Just read this article in the Independent Interesting Reading ...

At least 17 Britons have been murdered in Thailand since 2003

The Independent on Sunday newspaper Article ..

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/article3326545.ece

Have you seen them staggering down Sukumvit in the middle of the day, bare chested, old football tattoo's on thier forearms, drunk as skunks, arms around each other and singing..."here we go, here we go, here we go..."

I'm suprised it's only 17

[thaiman]

how many were murdered in briton?

[tso310]

how many were murdered in briton?

Last year in the UK April 2006 - March 2007 there were 775 murders (UK Home office provisional). FBI preliminary stats for 2007 show New York had 235. Austria has the lowest murder rate in the EU. If you translate some of the stats to actual numbers for the figures of the leading countries the absolute figures are very frightening.

These stats are for 2004 and come from the US Christian Party web site.

rank Country Homicide rate per 1,000 people

1. Colombia 0.6

2. South Africa 0.5

3. Jamaica 0.3

4. Venezuela 0.3

5. Russia 0.2

6. Mexico 0.1

7. Estonia 0.1

8. Latvia 0.1

9. Lithuania 0.1

10. Belarus 0.1

11. Ukraine 0.1

12. Papua New Guinea 0.1

13. Kyrgyzstan 0.1

14. Thailand 0.1

15. Moldova 0.1

16. Zimbabwe 0.1

17. Seychelles 0.1

18. Zambia 0.1

19. Costa Rica 0.1

20. Poland 0.1

21. Georgia 0.1

22. Uruguay 0.05

23. Bulgaria 0.04

24. United States 0.04

25. Armenia 0.04

26. India 0.03

27. Yemen 0.03

28. Dominica 0.03

29. Azerbaijan 0.03

30. Finland 0.03

31. Slovakia 0.03

32. Romania 0.03

33. Portugal 0.02

34. Malaysia 0.02

35. Macedonia 0.02

36. Mauritius 0.02

37. Hungary 0.02

38. Korea, South 0.02

39. Slovenia 0.02

40. France 0.02

41. Czech Republic 0.02

42. Iceland 0.02

43. Australia 0.02

44. Canada 0.01

45. Chile 0.01

46. United Kingdom 0.01

47. Italy 0.01

48. Spain 0.01

49. Germany 0.01

50. Tunisia 0.01

51. Netherlands 0.01

52. New Zealand 0.01

53. Denmark 0.01

54. Norway 0.01

55. Ireland 0.01

56. Switzerland 0.01

57. Indonesia 0.01

58. Greece 0.01

59. Hong Kong 0.01

60. Japan 0.005

61. Saudi Arabia 0.004

62. Qatar 0.001

Weighted Average 0.1

[wilko]

I'm glad I only stayed in the UK for a piffling 28 years. Terrible place, horrible people, etc.

I stayed there for 11 years....and I agree, what a dump....full of xenophobic bigots, under educated thugs and snobbish Hi So's.....then there is the gloomy god awful weather...Snow sleet and rain...

I left there when I was 11...

always good to hear the recollections of an eleven year old - how old are you now?.... 11.5 ???

[lazeeboy]

i blame sangson and chaing beer ,after drinking those ive felt like topping myself .

[Totster]

Amazing by reading some of the flippant questions asked here, how few even bothered reading the article past the first paragraph or two.

This area of the article was the most chilling and appeared overlooked:

The number of deaths of British nationals' in Pattaya is hard to ascertain – though some sources claim that it is up to four every week, neither the FCO nor the Thai authorities have any data they are prepared to release. However, what can be speculated with some confidence is that of the 226 average annual deaths of British citizens in Thailand recorded by the FCO, a large percentage are in Pattaya. (The FCO refuse to list causes of deaths, so we must also speculate as to the reasons for this morbid hotspot. Anecdotal evidence suggests straightforward causes of death for some, such as road accidents and health problems; then there are the suspicious-sounding "suicides" – jumping from balconies seems to be a favoured method.)

Of course, this is not murders alone but not being old or stupid either I know it isn't all suicides or accidents! It is a staggering statistic. Add to that other nationalities in a small area and it must be one of the highest in the world.

I don't care how many you want to label as undesirables etc I think the article was mainly being critical of the governments total lack of interest in any protection towards its citizens and it seems other western governments too. Would be interesting to see the stats for other Europeans and North Americans and if they have warnings on their websites?

M.

1. Protection of foreign citizens remains the duty of the host nation.
   
2. Cause(s) of death(s) are ascertained by or made known to the Embassies of the deceased.
   
3. The FCO Booklet entitled ‘Deaths Overseas’ explains what can or cannot be done to assist: http://www.fco.gov.uk/Files/kfile/Death%20...out%2015051.pdf
   
4. It’s ignorant to suggest information not reaching the public domain constitutes a ‘total lack of interest’.
   

[farang prince]

Just reading in the peper today in Singapore about the study just completed in the USa regarding the increase in murders by US Military personnel in the USA since the start of the Afghan war in 91 and through the Iraq war till now.

A 89% increase - maybe Americans should be careful at home while brits are being careful in Thailand

Prakanong, there are several factors involved in the increase of military-related murders in the USA. The first is post traumatic stress syndrome, which is creating a heavy toll on the military because of the extended numbers of tours of duty Army and Marine personnel are asked to complete. Second is that many of these murders are committed against spouses and often this is the result of the spouse committing adultery while their military partner is overseas. While I was a civilian assigned to special duties at Ft. Carson, CO, we had a substantial number of cases where military wives were not only cheating on their husbands when they were overseas in Iraq, but also were cleaning out their husbands' bank accounts before leaving.

As an aside, one of my platoon mates in Vietnam received a Dear John letter shortly before he was scheduled to return to the USA. He never said a word to anyone in the platoon. When he came back to the USA, he didn't tell his family or his estranged wife that he was returning home. After getting off the bus at Ft. Benning, this highly decorated soldier met up with some of his friends in a bar in Columbus, GA, found out where his wife was staying with her new boyfriend, had one of his friends drive him to a hardware store where he bought a claw hammer, then went to the wife's apartment and beat her and her boyfriend to death with the hammer. He then called the police and waited from them to pick him up.

My point is that during war, what we ask soldiers to do is often so stressful and emotionally destructive, that they have a hard time reintegrating back into society. I know I was drunk for the first two weeks after returning from my second tour in Vietnam and didn't even return to my home city for six months because I was so messed up. In fact, I wanted to go back for a third tour because I was more at home in a combat zone than I was in polite society. Fortunately, one of my old commanding officers interceded and got me transferred to a training command where I could use my experience and skills to prepare young non-coms for their first taste of combat.

I will never forget my first day back in "The World" as the USA was known to all us vets. I flew into San Francisco in my Class A uniform replete with rows of combat ribbons and was walking down the concourse to catch my flight to Atlanta and I saw this beautiful woman approaching from the opposite direction. She was making eye contact with me and had a big smile on her face. She was a classic California girl...long blonde hair that fell straight down to her shoulders, a beautiful braless body...and as she came up to me she said, "fuc_king baby killer." I wanted to break this dumb bitch's neck. But I walked on without saying a word. I have no idea what kind of willpower kept me from killing her right then and there. But for the grace of God go I...and I dearly know what these young men and women of the U.S. military are going through as they struggle to regain their sense of dignity and humanity when they come home.

I apologize for this being off-topic.

In response to the OP, 17 Britons being murdered in Thailand is 17 too many.