Canceled Work Permit, Salary Question?

[stingray]

This is a very sensitive case:

I was owner of a small trading company (about 4 million baht in goods) for over 5 years together with my ex gf. I had a work permit as a director and a tax registered salary of 50’000 Baht per month, which I never received, because i always let the money in the company to buy goods and build up capital, slowly, but successful. During 5 years I trusted my ex gf and showed her how to handle the business. In the year 2004 i was overseas (outside Thailand) for a couple months and my ex gf. changed the location of the company. What I didn’t know, she rented the new premises in her private name, but registered the company on another address, some address which has nothing to do with the real location where the actual business was located. So when i came back from overseas, i worked another year on the new location without i knew that the registered address wasn’t correct in my WP and company papers. After a year we had some private little arguments and i was in Bangkok for 3 days to pick up a friend from overseas and spend some time with him and when I came back i couldn’t get in my office anymore, because she changed the locks and didn’t let me work and handle my business anymore. In another way she toke my business away from me. Bank account was empty so I was completely broke and couldn’t even afford a lawyer. My ex gf. cancelled my WP (i don’t know how she can do, because i was the director of my company) and I had to leave the country within 7 days, applied new visa and came back. I contacted the lawyer, the one who handled the paperwork for my company, but he didn’t want talk or give any information to me. I guess it was all planed long time ago. So finally I worked for another company for 2 years, just to survive. My ex gf, still have the trading business. I can’t claim anything, because i just can’t approve that the invested money and goods are mine, because she says i was only her worker. But in another way she can’t approve that she ever paid me any salary, because i never signed any salary receipts and she never transferred any money in my bank account and actually i never got the 50’000 Baht per month, during the 6 years i worked “for” her. The question is: Can I claim any salary from her? If yes, how much for how long? Do she have to pay me some money, because i worked almost 6 years for her or can i just forget everything?

[Cyberstar]

Are you talking about a cooperate company (a fully registered co.ltd with shares and all that) or are you talking about some business solely owned by your ex gf? If the former you're talking about eventually claiming money from a company (not your gf) for witch you yourself have a lot of legal responsibilities (some of which you could go to jail for not handling properly) in your role as managing director. One can't tell without seeing documents - such as e.g. minutes from shareholder meetings - but maybe your gf has done things way beyond her mandates. Better make sure you find a very good lawyer before taking steps - or probably even better - just forget about it (while you're still not in jail or in debt of a huge fine for things committed by your company while you officially were in charge).

[Guest]

Any legal action is not likely to give any good results... I speak from experience. You may have to swallow your pride, and your losses.

[opalhort]

You may have a chance with the labour court claiming unpaid salaries.

Since you had a WP a letter confirming income must have been issued but the Co won't have evidence that they ever paid it to you.

No lawyer is needed at the labour court, they have legal experts who help you with paperwork free of charge.

My experience from 1986:

I worked for a Co., Ltd. run by an American expat. For WP had to record 10K income (also pay tax based on 10K) but they could only pay 50% of the salary at that time. Contract stated 10K but I only signed for the 5K I actually received every month (verbally agreed upon). The verbal agreement was that they pay the balance in installments after 6 months - this never happened.

After we fell out I took them to the labour court (3 hearings within two weeks) and won.

They did pay up as ordered by the court but went out of business 2 weeks later.

opalhort

[stingray]

Thanks for all that advice. The company was full registered, with shareholder and all that. My ex gf was a director and i was a director. Both of us could sign and made decisions in that time. My "registered" shareholdership was only 16%. Personal taxes i payd all, because i have new company and new work permit since about 7 months. My ex gf doing the business without company now, i guess. I'm not sure if she canceled the former company or not. There was no depts at that time. Just in case: Do i have any resposibility for the old company?

Edited January 15, 2008 by stingray

[opalhort]

....... Just in case: Do i have any responsibility for the old company?

Almost certainly ....YES, at least up to the point you exited the Co officially.

opalhort

[bino]

My ex gf. cancelled my WP (i don't know how she can do, because i was the director of my company)

My ex gf was a director and i was a director. Both of us could sign and made decisions in that time. My "registered" shareholdership was only 16%.

That's how she could do it. she was fully empowered to "sign and bind" for the company, and probably held a higher amount of shares than you.

The incorrect address thing is suspicious. I know that you can remove a director from a company without their direct participation by sending 3 consecutive registered mails to the listed address. If all three are returned, the remaining directors can claim that you have abandoned your position and appoint a new director / re-assign your shares.

Your ex-gf probably intercepted the registered mails that she had sent on behalf of the company to the bogus address and bounced them. I'd also agree that the laywer was "in bed" with your ex-gf, advising her of how to do everything.

I'd say that you are toast.

Time to chalk it up to experience- after all, the lessons you learn the hard way are the lessons you learn the best.

[Maestro]

...The incorrect address thing is suspicious. I know that you can remove a director from a company without their direct participation by sending 3 consecutive registered mails to the listed address. If all three are returned, the remaining directors can claim that you have abandoned your position and appoint a new director / re-assign your shares...

I am not familiar with Thai corporate law. I understand the part about removing a director, but not about re-assigning shares.

Are not the shares the personal property of the shareholder until he sells them? Should the OP, as a shareholder, not continue to receive invitations to annual shareholders’ meetings and annual reports, that is if Thailand has such legal requirement?

If I were in the OP’s shoes I would make an appointment for a consultation with Sunbelt to see how strong a case, if any, I have and then decide whether to take it further.

--

Maestro

[DamianMavis]

Wow yet another version of the same story, sorry for your loss but you are partly responsible, you do realise that right? Not trying to be an a$$, just hope one day people stop doing silly things like this....... Hopefully ONE GUY will read this thread and hesitate when he wants to put a Thai woman in a position to take him for all he is worth.

Damian

[TerryLH]

This happened over two years ago? Why wait so long to do something about it?

I assume that at the end of each year you got something from the company showing how much you earned for the year. you then took that to the tax office and used it to pay taxes. If that is correct, then you probably don't have any claim because you've already claimed to have recieved the money.

Otherwise, wouldn't that be fraud, or something? You know, telling a tale to get a WP and or visa.

[PattayaParent]

If you need a lawyer I can recommend Toosi Law office in Bangkok.

They sorted out a mate of mine's labour probem.

Haven't got the contact details but they always used to advertise in the Bangkok Post.

[opalhort]

I assume that at the end of each year you got something from the company showing how much you earned for the year. you then took that to the tax office and used it to pay taxes. If that is correct, then you probably don't have any claim because you've already claimed to have recieved the money.

Otherwise, wouldn't that be fraud, or something? You know, telling a tale to get a WP and or visa.

This is very similar to what I mentioned in my post of yesterday.

In a criminal and civil court the WP/visa issue will probably come up and could backfire.

I also signed the 91 tax form even though I never got the full pay.

The labour court did not consider anything declared to the authorities (tax/WP/visa), they only looked at the contract with the Co and the receipts I signed for the actual amount received and awarded me the balance.

That's why I thought the labour court would be an option for the OP to recoup at least part of his losses by claiming unpaid salary.

In any case the OP should consult a lawyer about what to do.

opalhort

[stingray]

This happened over two years ago? Why wait so long to do something about it?

I assume that at the end of each year you got something from the company showing how much you earned for the year. you then took that to the tax office and used it to pay taxes. If that is correct, then you probably don't have any claim because you've already claimed to have recieved the money.

Otherwise, wouldn't that be fraud, or something? You know, telling a tale to get a WP and or visa.

When i aplied for new work for a company wich i worked for, i had to clear the personal tax of my former WP, and after they give me a new work permit. Last april i quit with them and one month later i open my own business (new company and new work permit again). So i never tell any lies to them and actually they never asked any questions anyway. I done all the process for the work permit by my self and a applied by my self in the rdepartement. I only used my seceretary to prepare the paperwork for me. Actually i was suprised how easy it was to get a now WP. The staff of the labour office was very friendly and helpful to my, and i got my new WP in a couple days only, and paid about 750 Baht.