Advise On The Most Economical Executive Car

[Boater]

Hi

I currently have a 2.7v Fortuner, and do around 1000 Kilometres a week on buiness. At present the Fortuner drinks petrol at a very high rate and is turning out to be expensive to run.

What is the most economical car aviable in in Thailand? the car does not need to have much torque, but agood top speed. Also must be 5 Door, can be saloon.

Please advise your thoughts... i have around 1 million THB to spend and the car can be second hand but maybe no more then 2 years old

Thanks

[lingnoi34]

From top of my head: late model Toyota Camry or Honda Accord!

Top quality, nice ride, options, value, "face"

Check out Expat Motors, they got a 2007 Camry with economical 2 liter engine for 1M Baht right now

L

Edited January 15, 2008 by lingnoi34

[percy2]

Why not convert the Fortuner to LPG or NGV?

Cheers

[tattoodrob]

Why not convert the Fortuner to LPG or NGV?

Cheers

percy you beat me to it

[Boater]

Why not convert the Fortuner to LPG or NGV?

Cheers

percy you beat me to it

Hi

how much is it to convert to LPG.... also what is NGV????

On another note i am based phuket and Samui, and i have only ever seen 1 LPG petrol station ...

Tx

[percy2]

Some other people on TV have had it done from memory it costs about B30,000. Search for the other threads.

NGV Natural Gas Vehicle.

I think NGV is even cheaper than LPG and LPG is running about 1/3 price of petrol.

I am toying with the idea of buying a brand new petrol Fortuner and converting it.

Cheers

[percy2]

Oh and if Samui only has 1 LPG station your never too far away from it

Remember that your car will still run on petrol.

Cheers

[Boater]

Oh and if Samui only has 1 LPG station your never too far away from it

Remember that your car will still run on petrol.

Cheers

Hi

Thanks for the info....

The LPG station i discovered was actually in the middle of nowwhere via a short cut on the main land between Samui and Phuket... the most unlikly place i thought to put one, but then again TIT

[Gary A]

According to my Garmin GPS, Ko Samui has none and Phuket has two.

[North]

Hi

I currently have a 2.7v Fortuner, and do around 1000 Kilometres a week on buiness. At present the Fortuner drinks petrol at a very high rate and is turning out to be expensive to run.

What is the most economical car aviable in in Thailand? the car does not need to have much torque, but agood top speed. Also must be 5 Door, can be saloon.

Please advise your thoughts... i have around 1 million THB to spend and the car can be second hand but maybe no more then 2 years old

Thanks

When you ask for the most economical car and telling that your Fortuner " drinks petrol at a very high rate" then we are talking fuel economy.

Then I will suggest the new Ford Focus diesel, it has a very good fuel economy, excellent road handling and top speed 203 km/h and list price is 1,055,000 baht, - then it is new with three years of warranty

North

[percy2]

When you ask for the most economical car and telling that your Fortuner " drinks petrol at a very high rate" then we are talking fuel economy.

Then I will suggest the new Ford Focus diesel, it has a very good fuel economy, excellent road handling and top speed 203 km/h and list price is 1,055,000 baht, - then it is new with three years of warranty

North

Its a very nice package with no real cometition but it has a couple of things against it.

Its a bit small to be classed executive..............maybe just my interpretation , but I imagined a car that would be as comfortable in the back as the front.

Second problem is economy, because of the price of LPG/NG a converted petrol car is financially more economical than a diesel.

Cheers

[North]

Hi

I currently have a 2.7v Fortuner, and do around 1000 Kilometres a week on buiness. At present the Fortuner drinks petrol at a very high rate and is turning out to be expensive to run.

What is the most economical car aviable in in Thailand? the car does not need to have much torque, but agood top speed. Also must be 5 Door, can be saloon.

Please advise your thoughts... i have around 1 million THB to spend and the car can be second hand but maybe no more then 2 years old

Thanks

When you ask for the most economical car and telling that your Fortuner " drinks petrol at a very high rate" then we are talking fuel economy.

Then I will suggest the new Ford Focus diesel, it has a very good fuel economy, excellent road handling and top speed 203 km/h and list price is 1,055,000 baht, - then it is new with three years of warranty

North

Its a very nice package with no real cometition but it has a couple of things against it.

Its a bit small to be classed executive..............maybe just my interpretation , but I imagined a car that would be as comfortable in the back as the front.

Second problem is economy, because of the price of LPG/NG a converted petrol car is financially more economical than a diesel.

Cheers

The original poster (OP) are asking about "the most economical executive car" in the headline, but I get the impression, that the OP mostly is interested in a car with a good fuel economy.

I also get the impression ( only a guess ) that he is riding alone most of the time, he says " Also must be 5 Door ", it fits very well on the Focus, since it is a hatchback.

I cannot say anything about the ride in the back of a Focus versus a Fortuner, but at least the Focus is a car ( ) and I imagine, that the ride in the back of the Focus is not too bad compared to that of the Fortuner.

One poster mentioned Toyota Camry or Honda Civic, but the cars will not improve fuel economy that much, that it will be worth exchanging the Fortuner for one of these, - in my opinion.

North

[monty]

FWIW, I've just converted a late Nissan Cefiro to LPG, and with the car being quite new with only 60,000 km on the clock, opted for the most expensive, computer controlled LPG injection system.

39,000 Baht with the standard 57 liter tank, 1500 Baht extra for a bigger 68 liter tank. Included all paperwork to update the blue book to indicate the vehicle runs on LPG.

For a fortuner cost will be less as only 4 cylinders (cefiro is 6 cyl).

Currently LPG retails at a bit over 10 Baht in most places (although my regular place still sells at 9.69 Baht/liter), so at current petrol prices, and the fact that fuel economy is almost the same with the latest generation LPG systems, cost per km comes in at about 35% of the petrol cost.

As the OP stated he runs about 4000 km/month, savings will be quite impressive.

At a rough guess a fortuner burns 12 liter/100km (a tad over 8 km/liter) so on petrol cost per km would work out to roughly 4 Baht/km, while with LPG, calculated at a 15% higher consumption (absolute worst case) cost would be 1.5 Baht/km, a minimum saving of 2.5 Baht/km.

Multiply with 4000 km/month, installation paid back in 4 months and then a cool 10,000 Baht beer money extra every month

And it feels so much better filling to the brim for 500 Baht!

[Jareddiving]

Are there any disadventages for the engine when converting to lpg?

[monty]

The valves tend to get hotter.

Regular petrol, even though finely vaporized, still can take away quite some heat from the valve, whereas LPG, being gas, is not able to do that.

Most if not all LPG installations nowadays include a so called valve saver, being a very simple oil injection system. Pretty much any oil will do, but best to use two stroke oil as it is designed to both lubricate/take away heat at high temperatures, and burn as clean as possible (least impact on environment).

With this installed your engine should run at least as long as with regular petrol., Additionally engines on LPG run a tad smoother (better/smoother combustion than petrol, gas mixes better with air than vaporized petrol, which basically still are tiny droplets).

Also, regular fuel tends to dilute engine oil over time, whereas LPG doesn't.

Apart from the valve thing, LPG is actually better for engines than petrol!

A good indicator probably is the fact that several European car manufacturers sell (or sold, NGV is more popular now) with LPG built in while retaining the full warranty. Volvo and Mercedes where quite well known to do this.

Oh, and you do end up with that big ugly tank in the trunk

[North]

The valves tend to get hotter.

Regular petrol, even though finely vaporized, still can take away quite some heat from the valve, whereas LPG, being gas, is not able to do that.

Most if not all LPG installations nowadays include a so called valve saver, being a very simple oil injection system. Pretty much any oil will do, but best to use two stroke oil as it is designed to both lubricate/take away heat at high temperatures, and burn as clean as possible (least impact on environment).

With this installed your engine should run at least as long as with regular petrol., Additionally engines on LPG run a tad smoother (better/smoother combustion than petrol, gas mixes better with air than vaporized petrol, which basically still are tiny droplets).

Also, regular fuel tends to dilute engine oil over time, whereas LPG doesn't.

Apart from the valve thing, LPG is actually better for engines than petrol!

A good indicator probably is the fact that several European car manufacturers sell (or sold, NGV is more popular now) with LPG built in while retaining the full warranty. Volvo and Mercedes where quite well known to do this.

Oh, and you do end up with that big ugly tank in the trunk

What about the environment in all this ??

Before converting you had a petrol guggling engine !

After converting to LPG you have a LPG guggling engine !

But ok, it may be cheap to run the car that way, and that is of course more important than saving the planet ?

North

[Tywais]

What about the environment in all this ??

"The major advantage in using LPG is the cost saving - it can be less than half the cost of petrol. There are also major enviornmental benefits with vastly reduced exhaust emissions. There is no doubt that the environmental benfits are considerable with up to 70% less carbon dioxide, nitrous oxide and carbon monoxide emissions.

For passengers, the ride in an LPG vehicle is usually smoother than conventionally powered vehicles with less vibration. The cleaner nature of the LPG fuel itself produces longer engine life and longer intervals between services."

Source: > http://www.lgmotorgas.com.au/facts.htm

"LPG cars produce 90% fewer particulate emissions and 90% less Nitrogen Oxides than diesel engines. LPG engines produce 75% less Carbon Monoxide than petrol and have 87% less Ozone forming potential"

Source: > http://www.shellgaslpg.com/site/page/18/lang/en

Lots more info out there.

[percy2]

What about the environment in all this ??

Before converting you had a petrol guggling engine !

After converting to LPG you have a LPG guggling engine !

But ok, it may be cheap to run the car that way, and that is of course more important than saving the planet ?

North

With such a large difference in the price of the fuels LPG v Diesel you would have to say its more a problem of poor policy in government duties on fuel than individual environmental irresponsibility.

Cheers

[nakhonsi sean]

Are there any disadventages for the engine when converting to lpg?

I had my Land Rover 110 V8 converted to LPG in England. The thing ran much smoother on LPG, almost turbine like. Also had much better throttle response but lost a very little at the top end.

[Thaiboxer]

Percy...you mentioned a possible Fortuner purchase. Have you ever driven a Fortuner? I wonder how those things handle. Being an SUV, I figure they would give a rough, unstable ride and have a tendency to roll. Ford Explorers roll over quite often in the US, and that's on straight, flat highways!

The LPG conversion should be no problem for a brand new vehicle, but I would imagine some shops won't do a good job and just stick everything together with bubble gum if they can get away with it.

The Ford Focus that North mentioned sounds like a great little car. Handles well, durable diesel and there is the option of using biodiesel and/or palm oil type fuel instead of straight diesel. Something like 40% of all the cars in Europe are diesel and when it comes to paying at the pump, Europeans are being hit A LOT harder than Americans. It's too bad that today's "economical" cars are designed so that the auto mechanic has to pull out half the stuff in your engine compartment to change things like timing belts and water pumps. For some cars, both the timing belt and water pump have to be changed together so as not to risk a timing belt slipping on the pulley. With all these extra spare parts, the automotive industry must be having a financial field day

[North]

Percy...you mentioned a possible Fortuner purchase. Have you ever driven a Fortuner? I wonder how those things handle. Being an SUV, I figure they would give a rough, unstable ride and have a tendency to roll. Ford Explorers roll over quite often in the US, and that's on straight, flat highways!

The LPG conversion should be no problem for a brand new vehicle, but I would imagine some shops won't do a good job and just stick everything together with bubble gum if they can get away with it.

The Ford Focus that North mentioned sounds like a great little car. Handles well, durable diesel and there is the option of using biodiesel and/or palm oil type fuel instead of straight diesel. Something like 40% of all the cars in Europe are diesel and when it comes to paying at the pump, Europeans are being hit A LOT harder than Americans. It's too bad that today's "economical" cars are designed so that the auto mechanic has to pull out half the stuff in your engine compartment to change things like timing belts and water pumps. For some cars, both the timing belt and water pump have to be changed together so as not to risk a timing belt slipping on the pulley. With all these extra spare parts, the automotive industry must be having a financial field day

About the ride of the Fortuner I think you may be right, but ok, I don´t have any first-hand experience, but have been reading other´s opinion, and I think the suspension is not nearly as good as on a Focus or a Civic.

About the Focus I think ( and hope) you are right, - I just ordered one and will get it tomorrow, I will let you know how it performs.

Yes, the Europeans pay a lot more for fuel than we do here in Thailand, today´s listprice in Denmark for 95 unleaded: approx. 66 baht / liter

North

[Thaiboxer]

One of my English coworkers just did a Christmas trip to the UK...the price there is about 100 Baht/liter

I look forward to hearing your scoop on the diesel Focus.

[percy2]

I really like the idea of the Focus diesel.

Depending on how you are going to use it.

If your always driving yourself its a great solution.

The ride in a Fortuner is pretty good.

On a long drive I don't think it would make much difference between Fortuner Civic and Focus.

I have owned many SUV's.

The Fortuner I may buy is not for me. It would be for her indoors who doesn't want/cannot drive.

The reason the LPG converted Fortuner maybe a better solution for the OP in this case is that he already owns an unconverted one and isn't necessarily bent on buying a new car.

Enjoy your new car North!

Cheers

[torrenova]

Do these conversions make it more dangerous ? I mean, doesn't it mean you've a pressurised bomb in the back of your car ?

[Gary A]

Do these conversions make it more dangerous ? I mean, doesn't it mean you've a pressurised bomb in the back of your car ?

A gasoline tank hanging under your car is not the safest thing either. The LPG tank is tucked in the trunk, is thicker and better protected in a collision. I wouldn't worry about that aspect of it. The safest is diesel.

[torrenova]

Do these conversions make it more dangerous ? I mean, doesn't it mean you've a pressurised bomb in the back of your car ?

A gasoline tank hanging under your car is not the safest thing either. The LPG tank is tucked in the trunk, is thicker and better protected in a collision. I wouldn't worry about that aspect of it. The safest is diesel.

Agreed in part re the petrol tank but that is at atmospheric pressure. My understanding that all gas tanks would be under some pressure, reliant upon Thai welding and fitting and aren't gases more explosive than liquids ?

[Gary A]

Do these conversions make it more dangerous ? I mean, doesn't it mean you've a pressurised bomb in the back of your car ?

A gasoline tank hanging under your car is not the safest thing either. The LPG tank is tucked in the trunk, is thicker and better protected in a collision. I wouldn't worry about that aspect of it. The safest is diesel.

Agreed in part re the petrol tank but that is at atmospheric pressure. My understanding that all gas tanks would be under some pressure, reliant upon Thai welding and fitting and aren't gases more explosive than liquids ?

I have no idea which is worse but LPG is a liquid under relatively low pressure. Gasoline fumes are VERY explosive as is vaporized LPG. A partially filled gasoline tank will explode where a partially filled LPG tank is under pressure so no air can got into it to cause an explosion. Six of one and a half dozen of the other.

[torrenova]

Probably right Gary as long as Somchai has not been on the sauce all weekend before fitting it !