Id Cards For Foreign Nationals In England

[Shrek]

I hear that all foreign nationals in ERngland will be required to carry ID cards by the end of 2008

is this just for new entrants or are they going to try and backdate it to include ALL FN ?

Mrs is here on her ILR visa.

[mrbojangles]

I thought this was just in the "possibly" stage at the moment. I haven't seen anything concrete on it thus far. I'll keep an eye out for it.

Either way, it better be free or i'll be using my EU card again

[Tafia]

<br />I hear that all foreign nationals in ERngland will be required to carry ID cards by the end of 2008<br />is this just for new entrants or are they going to try and backdate it to include ALL FN ?<br />Mrs is here on her ILR visa.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

They are looking at everyone having an ID card not just Foreign Nationals, that said the subject has gone a little quiet of late...but i too will keep an eye out.

[the scouser]

It's certainly on the cards, but it has not been announced how it will be implemented. Short of requiring all foreign nationals to report to an issuing centre, I can't see how they can introduce the measure in relation to those already here. I would foresee a situation whereby it would be introduced over a period of time with, initially, cards issued as part of the visa application process and for those who have dealings with the Home Office. It has been suggested that those in the UK for less than three months would not need an ID card, and this would neatly dovetail with the government's proposals to cut the maximum duration of a visit from six to three months.

Scouse.

[mrbojangles]

<br />I hear that all foreign nationals in ERngland will be required to carry ID cards by the end of 2008<br />is this just for new entrants or are they going to try and backdate it to include ALL FN ?<br />Mrs is here on her ILR visa.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

They are looking at everyone having an ID card not just Foreign Nationals, that said the subject has gone a little quiet of late...but i too will keep an eye out.

I saw something on breakfast news the other week, where Cameron was pressing Brown on the issue in PM's question time. I think by the looks of it, in question avoidance tactics, that the issue of everyone having to get one is pretty much a dead duck and will end up (if at all) just being foreign nationals. However, we all know too well that british politicians are second to none at U-Turns.

[Eff1n2ret]

Sorry, I'm crap at providing links (somebody wake up Vinny), but on the Border & Immigration Agency Home page there is a link to an announcement on 14th Jan of a 10-point plan for border control, and one of the points is:-

"within 330 days to begin issuing compulsory ID cards for those foreign nationals who want to stay;"

The operative word must be "begin". Looks very much like a long-term project to me.

[Shrek]

Sorry, I'm crap at providing links (somebody wake up Vinny), but on the Border & Immigration Agency Home page there is a link to an announcement on 14th Jan of a 10-point plan for border control, and one of the points is:-

"within 330 days to begin issuing compulsory ID cards for those foreign nationals who want to stay;"

The operative word must be "begin". Looks very much like a long-term project to me.

The labour chappy I heard said it was a definite.....the liberals are fighting it as they say it is a 'test' for IDs for everyone

How the hel_l will they police it they havent a clue who's here...I have heard of 2 or 3 just locally who have no visa.

Is a liberal just a tory that hasnt been mugged yet ?

[the scouser]

How the hel_l will they police it they havent a clue who's here...I have heard of 2 or 3 just locally who have no visa.

That's the general point. Once the majority of foreign nationals have ID cards, those without will have their collars felt.

Scouse.

[bkk_mike]

But without requiring British Nationals to also have ID cards it's unworkable.

I know at least one person in London who I'd always thought was English (accent and everything), but who's actually American, but grew up in England.

Similarly, my own kids have dual nationality but live in Thailand.

So, while UK nationals don't need to carry ID what are the police likely to do. All any foreigner in the UK has to do is say they're British by birth, but were brought up in another country yo explain the accent. (or any other EU nationality for that matter.)

Personally I don't mind ID cards, so long as everyone has one. i.e. In Japan, you need the card to open a bank account, and you can use the Japanese queue at Immigration as a benefit, once you have your foreign resident ID card. (Japanese nationals have Japanese ID cards)

But unless everyone is expected to have one, they're pointless. (i.e. Once everyone has one, it will be the single piece of ID required when getting a card for blockbuster, or opening a bank account, or going to the doctor. But until EVERYONE has one, they are utterly pointless, as people will still be able to use utility bills.)

[the scouser]

But until EVERYONE has one, they are utterly pointless...

I quite agree.

The government has stated that they still intend to introduce IDs cards for British citizens, although, following the recent well-publicised spate of data losses, they're under pressure to abandon the idea. Even if cards for Brits are introduced, they will not be compelled to have one, but, instead, will be issued one upon applying for/renewing a passport. This in itself will take ten years to filter through but, even then, not all of the population will be covered as some people choose never to travel abroad and don't have a passport.

Scouse.

[lubbkis]

BKK-mike has this exactly right. The minute the BiBs start acting on the grounds that someone looks like they are foreign there'll be a case at Strasbourg in the blink of an eye. It's completely unworkable and will achieve nothing. The Nulabour ID card scheme is a typical IT project, growing gothic fiddly bits like there is no tomorrow. In current concept it is hugely expensive and the grate British public ain't going to wear it.

[Rinrada]

Anything that makes life easier and like the iris recog. stuff at Heathrow Immigration...I am all for them...

UK Identity card plans

from last week

The first ID cards will be issued to foreign nationals this year as the government pushes ahead with the controversial scheme.

What are the ID card plans?

Everyone over the age of 16 applying for a passport will have their details - including fingerprints, eye or facial scans - added to a National Identity register from 2008. The first identity cards will be issued to foreign nationals coming to work in the UK in 2008, and from 2010 the Identity and Passport Service will issue "significant volumes" of ID cards alongside British passports. For two years people will be able to opt out of having an ID card - but from 2010 anyone renewing or getting a passport will have to get one.

Will it be compulsory to have an ID card?

From 2010, all passport applicants will be issued with ID cards. If Labour wins the next election it has said it will bring forward legislation for MPs to vote on to make them compulsory for all UK citizens over the age of 16, although Prime Minister Gordon Brown has said such a move also depends on the success of the voluntary scheme. It is not currently planned to make carrying ID cards compulsory.

Why is the UK getting identity cards?

The government says it wants to give people a sure-fire way of proving they are who they say they are. It argues ID cards will boost national security, tackle identity fraud, prevent illegal working and improve border controls. Opponents say ID cards will be an infringement of civil liberties and a waste of money.

What information will be on the cards?

The card will contain basic identification information including a photograph of the card holder, along with their name, address, gender and date of birth. A microchip would also hold biometric information - a person's fingerprints or iris or facial scans, which are unique to the individual.

Are the details stored centrally too?

No. Plans for a single database holding the personal information of all those issued with a card have been scrapped. Instead, information will be held on three existing, separate government databases.

The whole scheme will be overseen by a new independent watchdog.

What will/wont be stored?

The government has sought to allay some fears about ID cards by saying they will not store details about someone's race, religion, sexuality, health, criminal record or political beliefs.

Did everyone in Parliament back the plans?

No.

The Conservatives and Liberal Democrats are against the scheme and both say they would scrap it if they win power.

The House of Lords also rejected the plans five times, before agreeing on the compromise deal allowing the opt-out from 2008.

What will happen when I apply for a passport................more....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3127696.stm.(.with thanks.)

[mrbojangles]

To me, one of the important things for this to work, is the cost. If it is too high, you won't get people to conform and to be honest, why should they. If a government wants to introduce this and make it compulsory, they should issue at least the first one free. Any replacements thereafter can be charged.

One of the main things that always get's on my nerves are the quoted costs when having to pay to goverment or councils etc. For instance, if your council tax is say £1,000, that isn't the true cost of what you are paying. To pay £1,000, you have to earn about £1,200 before tax. So the tax man takes about £200 off you and then you give the council the £1,000. So, if these cards end up costing us £90, the true cost is more likely to be about £118.

This is what the article from Rinrada says about the costs:-

How much will ID cards cost?

People would have to pay £30 for a stand alone ID card. Ministers say it will cost an estimated £93 to produce a combined passport and identity card. But the fees people will have to pay for those in practice have not yet been set. Cards, which will not be needed for under-16s, could be free for retired people above the age of 75, while those on low incomes could pay reduced rates. However, experts at the London School of Economics believe that the total cost of the ID scheme could be three times the government's estimate.

[Tafia]

I hear that all foreign nationals in ERngland will be required to carry ID cards by the end of 2008

is this just for new entrants or are they going to try and backdate it to include ALL FN ?

Mrs is here on her ILR visa.

Here is the latest news (as of 23rd Jan. '08) from UK Regarding this topic (Foreign Nationals from April '08) Rest of UK - phased in............

ID cards issue delayed, say Tories - AOL News