Teaching With No Experience

[withnail]

I did hear of a couple of people who had a property company I think it was who had one year extensions I think they might have registered the company in bangkok though.

[luis0915]

Did someone say something about non-natives teaching in Thailand. I'm one. I have a TEFL cert., and 4 years experience in ESL teaching abroad. Also have a BA from a non-English speaking country. What are my chances of getting a WP in Thailand as a teacher?

[Jockstar]

Another option if you dont want to spend heaps of money on a TEFL and then decide its not for you is through the British Council. I was the same when i first came here. No experience and degree. I am also a qualified electrician. The British Council do a introduction to TEFL for 8000 baht. Then if you want they also do a Young Learners course for the same price but give you 500baht discount if you do both. The first helped me start to understand some of the jargon that goes with teaching. The 2nd if i'm honest. I got more out of it. Its also a very fun learning experience. If after these courses you enjoy it and think you could do it. Then either try and get a job( no work permit though) or do a full TEFL through a recognised body. If you have got the energy then i personally would go for teaching younger kids. That way you dont have to worry as much about the grammar . If you want to work with Thais there is a good chance that you will have a Thai co teacher with you. Good luck to anyone. I say go for it

[brianbrain]

Dan75, have you asked yourself why you're thinking of teaching English in Thailand?  ...  Did you enjoy school as a kid?  ...

What's that got to do with being a teacher? If he enjoyed being a student, good for him but that won't make him a better teacher. I found school tediously dull and at many times painful. For me, there has been no better reason to try my very best for the kids I now teach. Are you trying to tell me otherwise?

[Ijustwannateach]

I think PB is asking Dan to be honest with himself about whether he would really enjoy the material or not, among other things. You have a good point- that it's those who didn't enjoy it who might empathize the most with the majority of students- but it isn't necessarily a teacher's role always to do what pleases the students [though it should be his goal insofar as it is compatible with his other targets].

"Steven"

[Dan75]

I actually found school very boring and had a short attention span, although I think this had to do with the teachers and content of the classes. I know own my own printing business and have had to spend alot of time teaching and training staff.

[Vit77]

Did someone say something about non-natives teaching in Thailand. I'm one. I have a TEFL cert., and 4 years experience in ESL teaching abroad. Also have a BA from a non-English speaking country. What are my chances of getting a WP in Thailand as a teacher?

My friends teach without TEFL cert., without experience, with MA from non-English speaking country. It's possible Some of them say they are native speakers (Irish for example), some of them say the truth only to the director of school (and parents don't know that).

[PeaceBlondie]

I actually found school very boring and had a short attention span, although I think this had to do with the teachers and content of the classes. I know own my own printing business and have had to spend alot of time teaching and training staff.

Hey Dan75, just come ahead. You could get a job in Chiang Mai for 17,000 baht per month if you do a perfect interview when the schools are desparate.

Do people in the printing business in English-speaking countries have to spell correctly? And do they save ink if their run-on sentences have virtually no punctuation?

I was just wondering.

[paully]

^ Ouch

[Mikey7]

I noticed on the web that there are companies in UK offering TEFL online for as lottle as $300 US. Any comments would be appreciated

[Pudgimelon]

I would like to move to LoS and see teaching english as an idea for work.... ....I know own my own printing business and have had to spend alot of time teaching and training staff.

Why do you "see teaching as an idea for work"??

If Thailand had a big need for bio-research scientists would you "see gene-splicing as an idea for work" simply because jobs were available??

Face it, you're not qualified.

Get some training, get some experience, and THEN consider a job in education, but just because the school's have no ethics and will hire any white idiot who walks in off the street doesn't mean that YOU should also have no ethics and take a job you aren't qualified to do.

There is a huge difference between speaking English and teaching English, and unless you have some idea what you're doing in front of a classroom, you're likely to be a miserable failure at it. Best case scenario, you just waste people's money who enrolled in some shoddy language school in the mall. Worst case scenario, you "ruin" a class of kids, turning them off to education and throwing their school year into turmoil when you bail out mid-semester.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not making a personal judgment, I'm just stating a common outcome. It takes knowledge, experience and a particular kind of attitude to be a good teacher. Maybe you have the correct attitude, but you are woefully ill-prepared. Your first year teaching would almost certainly be an exercise in frustration for both you and your students.

So why put yourself and your class through that? Just admit you're not qualified and find something else to do with your time.

For example, you said you owned a printing business. Well, if you sold that, you'd probably have plenty of cash to set up a similar business here in Thailand. You're knowledgeable in that field and would probably be very successful.

Of course, you'd probably have to come here for a few months to network and make friends so that you could find a good partner to go in 51%/49% on the business with you, but that's not too hard to find.

So why put yourself (and other people) through the torture of doing a job you aren't qualified for, when there are other opportunities available??

Have you even considered the alternatives??

Just because teaching jobs are readily available and easy to get doesn't mean that you should take them. People in Thailand work very hard--and often for very little pay--so they deserve to get a quality education for their money. It may not seem like much to a Westerner, but to a Thai, the money they plop down on a language school or an English program school (for their kids), represents a serious percentage of their paycheck. So don't be a dishonest person and take money from these people when you can't deliver a quality "product" in return.

Find another way to support yourself in Thailand. There are viable options besides teaching. Take some time and look into the alternatives. You may find yourself making more money (and feeling more self-satisfied) than you ever would in a classroom.

[Ijustwannateach]

^Not a bad post for Pudgi; he's being quite restrained!

Actually, Dan, his business model ain't a bad idea, either! I happen to know a number of farang businesses that rely at the moment on the "friends and family" approach in getting their advertising stuff done and printed in English- 'cause the Thais can't do it for them anywhere nearly on time or reliably. Since it's a not a job Thais can do that well, you probably would even be able to get official licensing (if you find the right palms to grease).

On the other hand, perhaps you're retiring and the whole idea is to get *away* from work?

"Steven"

[Pudgimelon]

On the other hand, perhaps you're retiring and the whole idea is to get *away* from work?

Which, in turn, strengthens what I am saying.

If he's trying to get "away" from work, then teaching is most definitely NOT a career to choose.

[Khun Larry]

3. I see myself as above average intellegence

Overqualified

[Khutan]

Look, I am going to be a

being a smug farang poking fun at them on an internet forum

But, we all know the score, before you come; So I will give you my sure fire method.....

1. You MUST have a Passport from one of the Native speaking countries. If you have a Philippino or Kaak Passport don't read on.

2. Very important - Order a university degree over the internet - it takes about 3 weeks and try to get one that will be useful (English Literature etc ).

3. While you are waiting for your degree , practice teaching at home for a bit. Buy a talking bird and start to teach it. When it talks you know you can teach English.

4. Relate this experience and ANY other experience into a resume.

5. Buy a ticket. and come here.

6. After a few beers and a day to get used to the place, but the Bangkok Post and start trawling for teaching jobs.

7. At the interviews lie about your experience and ability, and demand 450 Baht an hour. After all an experienced degree qualified teacher is worth it.

8. Teach teach, and after a year or two come back to this forum and find out how to get a work permit and Visa.

<Although obviously none of the above is condoned and using a 'fake' degree could get you into big trouble KK>

Edited September 28, 2004 by kenkannif

[mbkudu]

Look, I am going to be a

being a smug farang poking fun at them on an internet forum

But, we all know the score, before you come; So I will give you my sure fire method.....

1. You MUST have a Passport from one of the Native speaking countries. If you have a Philippino or Kaak Passport don't read on.

2. Very important - Order a university degree over the internet - it takes about 3 weeks and try to get one that will be useful (English Literature etc ).

3. While you are waiting for your degree , practice teaching at home for a bit. Buy a talking bird and start to teach it. When it talks you know you can teach English.

4. Relate this experience and ANY other experience into a resume.

5. Buy a ticket. and come here.

6. After a few beers and a day to get used to the place, but the Bangkok Post and start trawling for teaching jobs.

7. At the interviews lie about your experience and ability, and demand 450 Baht an hour. After all an experienced degree qualified teacher is worth it.

8. Teach teach, and after a year or two come back to this forum and find out how to get a work permit and Visa.

<Although obviously none of the above is condoned and using a 'fake' degree could get you into big trouble KK>

You're quite serious, aren't you?

[Ijustwannateach]

^^There *is* too much of that going on, mattnich- but the only alternative is to "clean up" the whole system. Wouldn't mind it myself- but would you (and all your friends) pass muster?

"Steven"

[Ajarn]

^^There *is* too much of that going on, mattnich- but the only alternative is to "clean up" the whole system.  Wouldn't mind it myself- but would you (and all your friends) pass muster?

"Steven"

My point would be that mattnich's advice is BAD. Dangerous, too. Violations of ANY laws here can carry a fine AND JAIL. Even though the odds are seemingly remote, this clueless newbie is too clueless to likely recognize the effect his choices might have on him here. There surely is a law regarding getting a visa extension based on fraud, for example...

My advice is, play the game by the rules. Deviate from that, and you're giving all your power to any Thai official to ###### with you.

[Ijustwannateach]

^Agree entirely!

[Khutan]

My point would be that mattnich's advice is BAD. Dangerous, too. Violations of ANY laws here can carry a fine AND JAIL.

Agree totally.....

Ok, I started the post with

Look, I am going to be a

being a smug farang poking fun at them on an internet forum

I was taking a huge swipe at some of the very bad teachers I see now and then who just come for an extended holiday and have no experience and qualifications.

Maybe I should have stated *** This is for Entertainment ONLY ***

And if people misrepresent themselves and end up blacklisted etc etc then SOM-NUM-NA

[kenkannif]

There surely is a law regarding getting a visa extension based on fraud, for example...

My advice is, play the game by the rules. Deviate from that, and you're giving all your power to any Thai official to ###### with you.

Well he didn't really mention using the 'fake' (and even then I suppose it depends how you class a fake degree, as online ones are kind of legit, but saying that the MoE quite often sends a list of legit, but not really legit online degrees to a lot of the schools here) degree to obtain an extension per se. You probably wouldn't even need one to find work here to be honest.

Ajarn while I agree with what you're saying, the play by the rules bit as discussed before would mean 90+% of teachers here wouldn't be here (for various reasons: Teaching at a different location to that specified on their WP, teaching subjects, or doing work that's not specified on their WP, working before they have their WP, etc. etc.) to actually end up with the paperwork, WP etc. needed!

[Ijustwannateach]

Yes, it should be acknowledged that it's a catch-22 for most schools, for a whole variety of reasons that get re- and re-hashed. To be honest, Ajarn, it's really not feasible for most workers at most schools to be entirely legal from day 1, even at the "top schools" (though I recommend it where it is possible!!!).

"Steven"

[Ajarn]

There surely is a law regarding getting a visa extension based on fraud, for example...

My advice is, play the game by the rules. Deviate from that, and you're giving all your power to any Thai official to ###### with you.

Well he didn't really mention using the 'fake' (and even then I suppose it depends how you class a fake degree, as online ones are kind of legit, but saying that the MoE quite often sends a list of legit, but not really legit online degrees to a lot of the schools here) degree to obtain an extension per se. You probably wouldn't even need one to find work here to be honest.

Ajarn while I agree with what you're saying, the play by the rules bit as discussed before would mean 90+% of teachers here wouldn't be here (for various reasons: Teaching at a different location to that specified on their WP, teaching subjects, or doing work that's not specified on their WP, working before they have their WP, etc. etc.) to actually end up with the paperwork, WP etc. needed!

I like to play the 'devil's advocate' sometimes, too

I can't imagine how a fake degree can be 'legit', though.

Good advice is still good and valid even if the majority don't follow it themselves. It shouldn't give one cause or excuse to ignore it, in my opinion.

It's also good advice to not drive drunk. I'm glad the majority follows that advice, even though many others don't

[Ajarn]

Yes, it should be acknowledged that it's a catch-22 for most schools, for a whole variety of reasons that get re- and re-hashed.  To be honest, Ajarn, it's really not feasible for most workers at most schools to be entirely legal from day 1, even at the "top schools" (though I recommend it where it is possible!!!).

"Steven"

Everyone should hear all sides, even the sides they don't want to hear. Like I implied, our choices should be informed choices, maybe especially here. The potential consequences of our actions here should always be a part of our decision-making process, I believe.

[kenkannif]

Ajarn,

If it's a degree from an unaccredited University it's not fake is it? As it's not being passed of for anything other than what it is. Unlike a fake Mancherster Uni degree which would be a copy of a 'proper' or original degree. Like if you made money from the Kingdom of Narnia it wouldn't be fake per se, although (and this might apply to a degree as well, saying that though does the MoE specify it has to come from an accredited Uni?) if you tried to pass it off as real money (like a chap did in Pattaya recently) you could then probably be done for fraud! Although I'm not a lawyer or anything so I may well be completely wrong (so don't call me if you're nicked/deported!).

Ajarn I kind of agree with you, but there's what should happen and what does happen unfortunately!

Edited September 28, 2004 by kenkannif

[Ajarn]

Ajarn,

If it's a degree from an unaccredited University it's not fake is it? As it's not being passed of for anything other than what it is. Unlike a fake Mancherster Uni degree which would be a copy of a 'proper' or original degree. Like if you made money from the Kingdom of Narnia it wouldn't be fake per se, although (and this might apply to a degree as well, saying that though does the MoE specify it has to come from an accredited Uni?) if you tried to pass it off as real money (like a chap did in Pattaya recently) you could then probably be done for fraud! Although I'm not a lawyer or anything so I may well be completely wrong (so don't call me if you're nicked/deported!).

Ajarn I kind of agree with you, but there's what should happen and what does happen unfortunately!

Very important - Order a university degree over the internet - it takes about 3 weeks and try to get one that will be useful (English Literature etc ).

Fake, fraudulent, degree.

fake1

· adj. not genuine.

· n. a person or thing that is not genuine.

· v. forge or counterfeit. Ø pretend to feel or suffer from (an emotion or illness).

– DERIVATIVES faker n. fakery n.

– ORIGIN C18 (orig. sl.): origin uncertain; perh. ult. rel. to Ger. fegen ‘sweep, thrash’.

fraud /frO;d/

· n.

1 wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.

2 a person or thing intended to deceive.

– DERIVATIVES fraudster n.

– ORIGIN ME: from OFr. fraude, from L. fraus, fraud- ‘deceit, injury’.

[kenkannif]

Yes, I understand what fake means.

But the degrees from the internet are not fake they are just unaccredited is all. There's a difference as my previous post covers. A lot of them are based on other qualifications and life experience and some are indeed valid and probably would help you to obtain a teachers licence. So it would indeed be a genuine unaccredited degree, rather than a KSR knocked up fake degree!

[Ajarn]

Yes, I understand what fake means.

But the degrees from the internet are not fake they are just unaccredited is all. There's a difference as my previous post covers. A lot of them are based on other qualifications and life experience and some are indeed valid and probably would help you to obtain a teachers licence. So it would indeed be a genuine unaccredited degree, rather than a KSR knocked up fake degree!

The one I've referred to, and quoted from, is clearly NOT something that fits what you are talking about..

It IS a fake as described, and fraudulent to use here to get your job/visa, in my view.

That was my only point. I'm not disagreeing that anything else is possible, even schools and teacher who are completely legal.

[kenkannif]

No, the ones he mentioned from the internet are UNACCREDITED degrees (I get them myself...erm the e-mails that is), rather than fake degrees (which you generally knock up yourself or buy from KSR or elsewhere). As I mentioned (and you edited in to your post), yes if you try to pass it off as an original accredited degree it could be classed as fraud, but it still wouldn't be a fake degree per se. And as I mentioned does the MoE insist they must be from accredited universities?

[Ijustwannateach]

I'm not disagreeing that anything else is possible, even schools and teacher who are completely legal.

Now *that's* stretching things! Although, finally, I am!

"Steven"